I think you should be able to PS repeatedly, like PS every hit in CFs new rapid jab if your timing is good. That'd be cool, and it would add more defensive options to the game. It would also make shieldpressuring a tad more difficult, in a way that it has not been difficult before.
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Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied
- Thread starter Budget Player Cadet_
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standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Streaming for about 30 minutes. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/pitminus
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
I just played this for the first time, and I must say, this is the closest Brawl has ever gotten to the fun level that I experienced with Melee. Brawl+ was about half-way there after removing various tourney codes like the stage freezers, but this, oh man...
IT FEELS LIKE SMASH BROS. AGAIN!
I don't know what you did, but it feels INCREDIBLE. I love that it's not strictly tournament-focused either, so I don't have to go out of my way remove certain codes every time there's an update. Playing on Melee stages even has the fun-feel that I got from Melee back in the day; I'm almost crying tears of joy here.
Playing Brawl- while using the texture hacked characters Master Chief, Gordan Freeman, Squal Leonhart, and Phazon-suit Samus... oh just so much wrong, and yet so much WIN.
Having all 4 major gaming platforms represented in a single match on Final Destination is insane enough, and then you up the awesome by having the song "Emiya" playing - the official song of GAR. Just so... much... WIN!
On a more level-headed note, at least IMO, it'd be much better if the wifi waiting room replaced 75m, but maybe I'm just a freak that actually kind of likes New Pork City.
Though, at the same time, since Brawl- is about not taking itself seriously, I think it'd be awesome if the "What is Mario Villans?" stage (along with the "What is Love" custom brstm) came with Brawl minus instead of using that plain old WiFi waiting room
IT FEELS LIKE SMASH BROS. AGAIN!
I don't know what you did, but it feels INCREDIBLE. I love that it's not strictly tournament-focused either, so I don't have to go out of my way remove certain codes every time there's an update. Playing on Melee stages even has the fun-feel that I got from Melee back in the day; I'm almost crying tears of joy here.
Playing Brawl- while using the texture hacked characters Master Chief, Gordan Freeman, Squal Leonhart, and Phazon-suit Samus... oh just so much wrong, and yet so much WIN.
Having all 4 major gaming platforms represented in a single match on Final Destination is insane enough, and then you up the awesome by having the song "Emiya" playing - the official song of GAR. Just so... much... WIN!
On a more level-headed note, at least IMO, it'd be much better if the wifi waiting room replaced 75m, but maybe I'm just a freak that actually kind of likes New Pork City.
Though, at the same time, since Brawl- is about not taking itself seriously, I think it'd be awesome if the "What is Mario Villans?" stage (along with the "What is Love" custom brstm) came with Brawl minus instead of using that plain old WiFi waiting room
Blatt Blvd
Smash Ace
ZSS can moon walk and its almost as good as melee falcon's moonwalk
And i dont think Rob is the character we need to worry about right now.
We(not me but you guys) need to make the useless characters not useless.
And i dont think Rob is the character we need to worry about right now.
We(not me but you guys) need to make the useless characters not useless.
Nelo Vergil
Smash Master
1st build is the 1st build. It always takes a few tries to get everything perfect, Im sure the Minus staff has great plans for a few of the underpowered characters
Izaniki
Smash Apprentice
I agree with Zero. When we have some characters who feel just AMAZING in the first build, I'm sure the plans are to put everyone up to that same feeling. It'll just take some time 
That said, I don't think there are too many characters that don't feel really good as it is (Olimar aside, cause I can't stand him).
I would love to see more characters with cool buffs to their 'iconic' stuff like Link and Pikachu, versus those who just received buffs to their regular attacks like G&W. TL also feels a little weird to me, with one of his strongest attacks being his taunt (but it's also pretty easy to DI it seems), it's just an odd placement (mainly because I don't play with taunts mapped to anything normally) for me :x
Just wanted to list some characters who I love the feel of, and some that I don't. Curious to see if anyone feels the same/differently.
Like: Link, Pikachu, ZSS, Ike
Dislike: Lucario, Jigglypuff, Lucas
With the likes, they generally have a fun, fast feel to them. Their B attacks (what makes them who they are, IMO) got some tweaks or big changes that work well with their playstyles. Their regular attacks got good changes that help them to be good and useful and fun (Pika's Bair, ZSS Dair).
Dislikes, they feel awkward and not very exciting, I guess. Lucario is kind of a 'slow' character, with some of his aerials stopping momentum, etc though to be fair, I didn't like him much in any form of brawl. Lucas just feels kinda meh, I'm not a big fan of PK Fire being such a huge tool for him, doing that much damage etc. and the DAC gives so much momentum it gives a feeling of having no control over him, though I love the idea of it. Jigglypuff is a hard one, cause he feels like him, but it just seems so easy to kill with him now without much effort (WOP *****, Rollout>Rest). I just don't get excited about Jiggs because of the ease he can kill from small combos with Rest.
Anyone feel the same about any of these? Any chars that feel weird to you or that you avoid playing? Just curious to see who people pick :x
That said, I don't think there are too many characters that don't feel really good as it is (Olimar aside, cause I can't stand him). I would love to see more characters with cool buffs to their 'iconic' stuff like Link and Pikachu, versus those who just received buffs to their regular attacks like G&W. TL also feels a little weird to me, with one of his strongest attacks being his taunt (but it's also pretty easy to DI it seems), it's just an odd placement (mainly because I don't play with taunts mapped to anything normally) for me :x
Just wanted to list some characters who I love the feel of, and some that I don't. Curious to see if anyone feels the same/differently.
Like: Link, Pikachu, ZSS, Ike
Dislike: Lucario, Jigglypuff, Lucas
With the likes, they generally have a fun, fast feel to them. Their B attacks (what makes them who they are, IMO) got some tweaks or big changes that work well with their playstyles. Their regular attacks got good changes that help them to be good and useful and fun (Pika's Bair, ZSS Dair).
Dislikes, they feel awkward and not very exciting, I guess. Lucario is kind of a 'slow' character, with some of his aerials stopping momentum, etc though to be fair, I didn't like him much in any form of brawl. Lucas just feels kinda meh, I'm not a big fan of PK Fire being such a huge tool for him, doing that much damage etc. and the DAC gives so much momentum it gives a feeling of having no control over him, though I love the idea of it. Jigglypuff is a hard one, cause he feels like him, but it just seems so easy to kill with him now without much effort (WOP *****, Rollout>Rest). I just don't get excited about Jiggs because of the ease he can kill from small combos with Rest.
Anyone feel the same about any of these? Any chars that feel weird to you or that you avoid playing? Just curious to see who people pick :x
stingers
Smash Obsessed
I avoid playing ROB because he makes the game unfun
Izaniki
Smash Apprentice
Well, I know you have an incredibly intense dislike for ROB, but that's not quite the response I was hoping for! D:
tsunami70875
Smash Journeyman
At 143% (243% afterward), Jigglypuff's broken shield sends Sandbag 24 000 feet.
Nelo Vergil
Smash Master
Charizard needs fixing. I actually came up with a general change list for Charizard. The format is a little weird, but its a text document I saved and made as I was testing Charizard's moveset thoroughly. Its a little long, and a little to general, but I think feedback should be added. Any aspect not mentioned remains the same
Charizard-Move Set Edit
Jab 1- Buff to 5%
Jab 2- Buff to 6%. Reduce Knockback to allow chain at higher percents/more options at lower percents.
Jab 3- Buff to 8%.
Ftilt-16% tippered. Damage remains the same, always tippers, and causes a Burn effect which damages opponent over time (much like the Flower effect).
Dtilt-14% tippered. 10% untipped. Increase tipper damage to 18%, otherwise keep the same. Untipped knockback should send opponent slightly up, allowing combos/easy follow up. Untippered should not kill ever
Utilt-12%. Keep as is
Dash attack-17% beginning hitbox, 13% prolonged. Keep as is
Fsmash-6% first hit, 18% second (uncharged) 8% first hit, 25% second (charged). Change 2nd hitbox that causes an explosion infront of Charizard, keep damage values and knockbacks the same, but explosion causes greater shield stun and Burns foe
Dsmash-18% uncharged, 25% charged. Increase field of effect for launch back hit, add more knockback as well to make it stronger.
Usmash-5% 1st 11% 2nd uncharged, 7% 1st 15% second hit. Make both moves link faster (like Link's). Increase percents to around 7% 11% (19%) uncharged and 10% 15% (25%) charged
Grab-Leave as is
Pivot Grab-Extend range
Dash grab-Extend range
Pummel- Leave as is
Fthrow-12%. Buff to 16%
Bthrow-12%. Buff to 16%
Uthrow-12%. Reduce knockback to allow actual follow up
Dthrow-16%. Add Burn effect, and increase knockback
Nair-12%. Add fire aura around Charizard that covers his body for the whole move. Quicken move slightly. Hitbox is the same firehitbox, on start up does 14% damage, otherwise does 10%. Adds Burn effect
Fair-16% all hits. Add burn effect and increase range
Bair-18% both hits tippered. Always tippers and add Burn effect
Uair-12% start up, 9% prolonged. Keep as is
Dair-14%. Keep as is
Glide Attack-22%. Add Burn effect.
Neutral B-Change to Blast Burn, has brief start up (about 1 second) and then unleashes a Hyper Beam like attack. Deals 25% damage, and can kill around 80% on FD at the center. Travels the same as a fully charged ROB laser, cannot be angled, and adds Burn effect. After firing there is a 2 second cool down period where Charizard cannot do anything (make animation his tired animation), as well cannot fire again for 10 seconds (during this time Flamethrower returns). Fully charged tail Fire grows bigger
Side B-Whatever TSON had planned, Stealth Rock sounds cool =o
Up-B- 17%. Adds Burn effect
Down-B- No comment
Final Smash- Lulz
Other Attributes
Glide speed-Increase it so its a bit quicker
Run speed- Fine as is
Fire Burn-Deals 6% damage always, cant be shaken off like Flower
Anything else....cant really think of anything. I hope you enjoy some of the suggestions here, hopefully its all possible
Charizard-Move Set Edit
Jab 1- Buff to 5%
Jab 2- Buff to 6%. Reduce Knockback to allow chain at higher percents/more options at lower percents.
Jab 3- Buff to 8%.
Ftilt-16% tippered. Damage remains the same, always tippers, and causes a Burn effect which damages opponent over time (much like the Flower effect).
Dtilt-14% tippered. 10% untipped. Increase tipper damage to 18%, otherwise keep the same. Untipped knockback should send opponent slightly up, allowing combos/easy follow up. Untippered should not kill ever
Utilt-12%. Keep as is
Dash attack-17% beginning hitbox, 13% prolonged. Keep as is
Fsmash-6% first hit, 18% second (uncharged) 8% first hit, 25% second (charged). Change 2nd hitbox that causes an explosion infront of Charizard, keep damage values and knockbacks the same, but explosion causes greater shield stun and Burns foe
Dsmash-18% uncharged, 25% charged. Increase field of effect for launch back hit, add more knockback as well to make it stronger.
Usmash-5% 1st 11% 2nd uncharged, 7% 1st 15% second hit. Make both moves link faster (like Link's). Increase percents to around 7% 11% (19%) uncharged and 10% 15% (25%) charged
Grab-Leave as is
Pivot Grab-Extend range
Dash grab-Extend range
Pummel- Leave as is
Fthrow-12%. Buff to 16%
Bthrow-12%. Buff to 16%
Uthrow-12%. Reduce knockback to allow actual follow up
Dthrow-16%. Add Burn effect, and increase knockback
Nair-12%. Add fire aura around Charizard that covers his body for the whole move. Quicken move slightly. Hitbox is the same firehitbox, on start up does 14% damage, otherwise does 10%. Adds Burn effect
Fair-16% all hits. Add burn effect and increase range
Bair-18% both hits tippered. Always tippers and add Burn effect
Uair-12% start up, 9% prolonged. Keep as is
Dair-14%. Keep as is
Glide Attack-22%. Add Burn effect.
Neutral B-Change to Blast Burn, has brief start up (about 1 second) and then unleashes a Hyper Beam like attack. Deals 25% damage, and can kill around 80% on FD at the center. Travels the same as a fully charged ROB laser, cannot be angled, and adds Burn effect. After firing there is a 2 second cool down period where Charizard cannot do anything (make animation his tired animation), as well cannot fire again for 10 seconds (during this time Flamethrower returns). Fully charged tail Fire grows bigger
Side B-Whatever TSON had planned, Stealth Rock sounds cool =o
Up-B- 17%. Adds Burn effect
Down-B- No comment
Final Smash- Lulz
Other Attributes
Glide speed-Increase it so its a bit quicker
Run speed- Fine as is
Fire Burn-Deals 6% damage always, cant be shaken off like Flower
Anything else....cant really think of anything. I hope you enjoy some of the suggestions here, hopefully its all possible
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
Seeing that I got no response from my suggestion on having the WiFi Waiting Room instead replace 75m, I'm assuming that I really AM a freak for liking New Pork City better than 75m. Is this a correct assumption?
stingers
Smash Obsessed
ganon's warlock punch sends it around 54,000 feet. i tried it with my little brother right when we got it lol
also i love new pork city. no way
also i love new pork city. no way
![[TSON]](/data/avatars/l/114/114196.jpg?1360761019){kind=avatar}
[TSON]
Hella.
I like NPC too D:
But only cuz I loved Mother 3.. I guess we can put it over 75m...but then what about mario villains :E. No more what is love :/
But only cuz I loved Mother 3.. I guess we can put it over 75m...but then what about mario villains :E. No more what is love :/
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
um, mario villans can replace both the waiting room and 75m stages separately. However, if you replace 75m with wifi waiting room, and then replace wifi waiting room with what is mario villains, then you've essentially replaced 75m with what is mario villains.
Do you get it?
Do you get it?
Izaniki
Smash Apprentice
I'm still kinda iffy about NPC+. The crazy amount of tilted surfaces makes it kinda weird (especially for trying to wavedash
When you say 75m do you mean the regular version? Or is there a changed version that I'm unaware of? :o
When you say 75m do you mean the regular version? Or is there a changed version that I'm unaware of? :o
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
I meant regular for both NPC and 75m. I didn't even realize there was a NPC+; I stopped upgrading my Brawl+ codeset since it got too annoying removing various codes meant for tourney-style play.
Anyway, the reason I mentioned replacing 75m with Wifi waiting room and then replacing THAT with What is Brawl Villains is mearly to cut down on redundant files. This method only requires 2 files (one for stage, one for song), while replacing both the wifi waiting room and 75m with What is Brawl villains separately results in SIX files (2 for stages, 4 for songs) or 3 if there's some way to turn off 2 of the 3 songs for 75m. Either way, the first method still uses less files, and therefore less storage space.
Oh, and TheSilenceOfNoOne (or whoever makes the Brawl minus codeset), I updated the "What is love" BRSTM link a few hours after making the original post, so make sure you have the newer version and not the older.
Anyway, the reason I mentioned replacing 75m with Wifi waiting room and then replacing THAT with What is Brawl Villains is mearly to cut down on redundant files. This method only requires 2 files (one for stage, one for song), while replacing both the wifi waiting room and 75m with What is Brawl villains separately results in SIX files (2 for stages, 4 for songs) or 3 if there's some way to turn off 2 of the 3 songs for 75m. Either way, the first method still uses less files, and therefore less storage space.
Oh, and TheSilenceOfNoOne (or whoever makes the Brawl minus codeset), I updated the "What is love" BRSTM link a few hours after making the original post, so make sure you have the newer version and not the older.
tsunami70875
Smash Journeyman
why not just use the SSS code and add the online waiting room?
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
Because I have never heard of that and have no idea what it is.
Care to explain?
Oh, and even though I prefer time matches, I guessing it's a safe bet that most people prefer the 4-stock 8 minutes rules, and that it, without a doubt, isn't going to change? (Doesn't really bother me, takes about the same amount of time to change the rules anyway)
Care to explain?
Oh, and even though I prefer time matches, I guessing it's a safe bet that most people prefer the 4-stock 8 minutes rules, and that it, without a doubt, isn't going to change? (Doesn't really bother me, takes about the same amount of time to change the rules anyway)
tsunami70875
Smash Journeyman
it's a code to modify the stage selection screen, and it'd possible to add the online waiting room as a stage and other custom stages
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
Really? That's sweet!
...then why the heck are we replacing NPC in the first place? This ain't no tourney-only Brawl+ now (otherwise there'd be level-freezer codes and stuff, exactly what Brawl- ISN'T about)
...then why the heck are we replacing NPC in the first place? This ain't no tourney-only Brawl+ now
(otherwise there'd be level-freezer codes and stuff, exactly what Brawl- ISN'T about)
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
My idea was make the super armor turn off during hitstun and tumble. That way, it's still hard to get in on bowser, but the lightweights have a chance once they get that first hit off. Bowser vs. Fox is another almost impossible one.
While I agree that ROB is ****ing ********, I disagree that he's that overdominant.
Tech class in school. No inet at home and no library = fail
Slaps
Smash Lord
Captain Falcon has rediculous Dthrow chaingrab, like his grab range is rediculous and he can chain Dthrows cause of hit stun i don't know how long he can do it for since higher % means increased hit stun after each Dthrow but it eventually gets to the end of the stage where he can knee. XP I am not sure if you can DI out of it but i have done it quite a few number of times on and offline.
Ganon=better than all! XD why does no one here like playing ganon? Side B>Usmash>Uair>Up B spike XD its so fun haha, though you can tech ganons side B (you can eyeball and punish XD) just saying Ganon is amazing. Gonna be fun at next local tourney since it is showcasing Brawl Minus as a side event, I believe I can win lol. I'll be using either Ganon or Zelda, probably Ganon since Zelda's recovery always sucks balls XD. Also OMG! Windmill on PS1 helps out Zelda SOOOOOO much! Dins fire into the windmill keeps it from moving causing it to increase in size and power without having to hold it into the ground on a flat map XD
Ganon=better than all! XD why does no one here like playing ganon? Side B>Usmash>Uair>Up B spike XD its so fun haha, though you can tech ganons side B (you can eyeball and punish XD) just saying Ganon is amazing. Gonna be fun at next local tourney since it is showcasing Brawl Minus as a side event, I believe I can win lol. I'll be using either Ganon or Zelda, probably Ganon since Zelda's recovery always sucks balls XD. Also OMG! Windmill on PS1 helps out Zelda SOOOOOO much! Dins fire into the windmill keeps it from moving causing it to increase in size and power without having to hold it into the ground on a flat map XD
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2005
- Messages
- 8,189
Revven
FrankerZ
Slaps, the Falcon CG =/= work when they DI down and away and tech. It's an old as dirt CG that still works in B+ and was one of the first ones found when hitstun was first introduced. In other words, it can't be escaped unless you DI, meaning it's not really a CG.
Slaps
Smash Lord
ok falco, then the people i play with are just morons XD... and yes, failure also Rkey. First time i participated in B- tournament was when Wario slid halfway across stage with Fsmash and even then you could tech side B with ganon and i just punished with either another side B or whatever i found fitting XD.
You could try mine but I don't think you can use over 256 lines of code on PAL (and maybe JP) for Riivolution yet. You need a codehandler.bin file to allow that but I don't think one was made for those other regions...
Also, for the XML you would have to find the correct offsets that Ocarina hooks into since it's different for other regions, and you'll have to find out what the files are originally named on the PAL disc (I think there are more files that have "_en" at the end of the name than in the NA disc, and JP doesn't have any with that at all obviously). Feel free to edit mine for PAL and I can link it in my post if you want should you do so.
Falcon88
Smash Ace
So, all the people who I play Brawl- with agree that - is insane. (This is the last "official" release.) His Super Armor is way too good IMO. He can practically walk through Meta Knight's attacks (including Side Smash occasionally). Has anything been done about this yet?
- is insane. (This is the last "official" release.) His Super Armor is way too good IMO. He can practically walk through Meta Knight's attacks (including Side Smash occasionally). Has anything been done about this yet?
Nintendo Maniac 64
Smash Apprentice
I didn't play AS bowser, but I beat a CPU Bowser- pretty well with my Captain Falcon.
But I'm not an incredibly technical and advanced tourney-level player, so my opinion is meh
But I'm not an incredibly technical and advanced tourney-level player, so my opinion is meh
Nelo Vergil
Smash Master
MK has literally 5 moves that effects Bowser, Dtilt, Dsmash, Fsmash, Dair, and Glide are the ones that will work all the time (maybe Utilt as well, i dunno). This is definetly one match up that supports changing the SA
Falcon88
Smash Ace
Outside the SA Bowser really isn't that bad, though. I think some SA is okay, but very little. Or, maybe just give him SA on lots of his attacks but not all of the time?
My roommates and I played a few four-way all-Ganon matches. Now that is fun. Especially if it's 4-stock and you end up getting Damage Given Numbers of around 4000% and Launcher speeds of over 80000.
Slaps
Smash Lord
MK deserves to be CPed by a character like bowser, MK was cheap in vBrawl and he still has the same attacks in Brawl- making him just as gay. Now I am sure we can all now say that every character is gay in Brawl- but I think with this new system of brokenness, CPing and countering a character must be used in order to win. No more will people be able to switch to MK to win. You are acting as though MK is the only character you play complaining about Bowser. To beat him all you have to do is choose a heavy hitting character. (Ike, Kirby, Bowser XD lol, Ganon). I do agree his super armor is a bit rediculous but i think he deserves it =D lol. Lol @ Ganon- FFA!!! XD
Tarmogoyf
Smash Master
Where is your XML for B-? Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't find it
Falcon88
Smash Ace
Actually, my friend played against my Bowser as Ike and got extremely frustrated by not being able to make me flinch with Jab, Nair, or the first part of Aether. We have pretty much stopped playing Bowser because we all agree he's cheap. Maybe it's just us, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Although I think designing characters to CP others is not fun. Things like CP-ing happen naturally. I guess Brawl- isn't natural, but still. The game isn't meant to be serious, so why even worry about CP-ing? On the other hand, there's still a certain level of sanity you have to have before the games (or just certain characters) get obnoxious.
I like the idea of perma-SA on Bowser, but not this much. Is there any way we could make it so that multi-hit moves go through it?
Blatt Blvd
Smash Ace
hey how about for gannon, make his down b jump cancelable.
over and over again, so he can recover from anywhere
maybe he could do moves out of it too(wizards foot to upair/nair)?
over and over again, so he can recover from anywhere
maybe he could do moves out of it too(wizards foot to upair/nair)?
Izaniki
Smash Apprentice
The only thing that's really bad about Bowser is that you have to change how you play in order to beat him, but if you have a good attack that goes through SA, he gets destroyed. My personal favorite against Bowser is Zelda, as the extended hitboxes make the fight cake :3 Also, you sometimes hit him with both, so it's extra damage!
F1SHY
Smash Apprentice
Lucas DESTROYS Bowser. I've never really had much problems w/ Bowser, but maybe it's because I use pretty heavy-hitters. (Marf, Captain Falcon, Ganon)
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