Brawl is competitive. (Finished editing post)

[LUCYMONO]

The connotation in which the term is being used does not rely upon a definition in a dictionary.

If that's the case, then the thread should be retitled to "Does Brawl take as much skill to master as Melee?"

 

[LouisLeGros]

Brawl takes different skills than Melee. Therefore you can't compare them on competitiveness.

You can say that one game takes more skill at the game's basic mechanics and gameplay. But you can't say one is more "competitive," unless based on competition.

Yes, Brawl removes a lot of technical skill
Brawl is all about "mind games" that really boil down to rock-paper-scissors guessing
Brawl rewards the use of camping with the easy power shielding and ridiculously over effective shield grabbing and spamming.

and all of these things have been discussed at great length by players who better understand the game then myself and better understand the smash bros competitive scene.

Just saying it requires different skills and could develop to become deeper in the future really doesn't mean much.

 

[h1roshi]

hey guys, I just finished up the post. Sorry, but the first time around my friend asked me to go out and eat so i did. The i didnt have enough time to finish it. So yeah, enjoy the thread. Discuss.

-hiro

 

[LouisLeGros]

If that's the case, then the thread should be retitled to "Does Brawl take as much skill to master as Melee?"

The discussion's focus has shifted and what the title of the thread is called doesn't really matter.

the OP is about how Brawl is different and we can't treat it like Melee if it is to be played competitively successfully.
All of this is true and we are all doing this. However, the discussion has shifted towards what the ramifications of these changes mean for the competitive scene and how they compare to Melee.

 

[QED]

I hear people saying to stop comparing the two games. Why not? It's pretty illogical not to... don't you think?

Because, OMFG BRAWL IS A SEQUEL/NEXT GENERATION GAME OF MELEE. To not be able to understand this boggles my mind. It's like saying not to compare the first Matrix movie to the second. If people are comparing things of absolute no relation, then yes you can ***** and moan. But it's the same **** franchise. Comparison and analysis results into a conclusion which offer better solutions.

And to think the "pro-brawl" nubs say to stop comparing while they state: "Brawl needs time to develop! Melee had 6-7 years to develop!" well ****, congrats on contradicting your own sorry *****.

Also to note on my previous statement, people will find ATs (or "glitches" if you are a nub) in the game faster... now that we have a foundation of knowledge from Melee (on how to find them). So we will know how deep/shallow Brawl is in the very near future.

 

[iankobe]

I hear people saying to stop comparing the two games. Why not? It's pretty illogical not to... don't you think?

Because, OMFG BRAWL IS A SEQUEL/NEXT GENERATION GAME OF MELEE. To not be able to understand this boggles my mind. It's like saying not to compare the first Matrix movie to the second. If people are comparing things of absolute no relation, then yes you can ***** and moan. But it's the same **** franchise. Comparison and analysis results into a conclusion which offer better solutions.

And to think the "pro-brawl" nubs say to stop comparing while they state: "Brawl needs time to develop! Melee had 6-7 years to develop!" well ****, congrats on contradicting your own sorry *****.

Also to note on my previous statement, people will find ATs (or "glitches" if you are a nub) in the game faster... now that we have a foundation of knowledge from Melee (on how to find them). So we will know how deep/shallow Brawl is in the very near future.

WTF? Why are you comparing two totally different games? So what Brawl was a sequel to Melee? Its 2008. It's brawl time. Its time to move on. The reason why we're taking so long to find these tactics is because we keep looking back at melee while they are two different games. Whatever you said about the foundation crap has nothing to do with finding new tactics. But of course there are a few things that you carry over from melee to Brawl, such as mind games.

Like you said, Brawl is the next generation of Melee. The game is out and there's nothing you can do to change its game play. So why are you comparing for? Move on.

 

[h1roshi]

well, i know its hard to no compare them. But as long as you keep playing brawl with the mindset that this is the next melee, you will get bored or frustrated at the game. If you want to see brawl for what it really is, you have to play it with a clean mindset. play it as if you never played melee before, and see how much you like it then.

-hiro

 

[SmashBro99]

Yes Brawl is competitive, and when people stop trying to make it Melee v2 they will see that.

Lol @ people crying over tripping, MAYBE IT'S AN ADVANCED TECHNIQUE YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT YET!

 

[brawlpro]

I get bored and frustrated when melee doesn't even cross my mind. It's like, "die already your at 200%!"

 

[Fugue]

well, i know its hard to no compare them. But as long as you keep playing brawl with the mindset that this is the next melee, you will get bored or frustrated at the game. If you want to see brawl for what it really is, you have to play it with a clean mindset. play it as if you never played melee before, and see how much you like it then.

-hiro

In other words, assuming you don't have anything to compare it against, it's not a worse game than any other.
That's nice, but the argument people are trying to make is that Melee is a better competitive game compared to Brawl. You're not addressing their points at all.

Also, stop saying we just want "Melee 2.0." It's even more wrong and ignorant than "FOX ONLY NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION." We want a balanced game with high-level play that's fun to watch. So far, the more people play Brawl, the more it looks like high-level play will be a contest between who's the best camper. This is not fun to watch, and Melee's offensive metagame is just plain more entertaining.

Maybe there is some hidden aspect of Brawl that will revolutionize it's metagame and restore the importance of offense. But it's amazingly rude and presumptuous to attempt to force players to give up something they already know works in favor of something that does not work on the grounds that things might get better later, even though everything seen so far begs otherwise.

Brawl is a great party game. I love sitting down with my friends and opening a can of firey Kung Fu WATAA on a blue hedgehog and robed angel with the body of a prepubescent teenager while breaking down an Italian plumber's haunted mansion, and I can't get that from Melee. But we're not discussing Brawl as a party game. We're discussing it as a high-level major competitive event. And in that category it is not coming up to par with it's competition.

@iankobe: THEY ARE TRYING TO MOVE ON. THEY ARE DISSATISFIED WITH THE CURRENT GAME, SO THEY ARE MOVING ON FROM IT AND SWITCHING TO A GAME THEY ARE SATISFIED WITH.

 

[Hylian7]

I definitely agree with you. I am pretty sure Melee's "Advanced Techniques" were not discovered within a month or two. Also, there is a whole lot more to Brawl than people are seeing. First of all, remember that post on the Dojo called "Quick Techniques." That first technique called the Ukemi. Reading about it and looking at one screenshot didn't really make much sense of the technique. Actually trying out shows that there is a whole lot more to it than meets the eye. Just because techniques like that were intentionally put in the game (unlike wavedashing, L-cancelling, etc.) does not mean that it cannot be competitive. All the games in the Halo franchise are considered competitive, and you really don't see many "Advanced Techniques".

The only thing I don't necessarily agree with in your post (that is also a general consensus) is that Brawl is "Slower" than Melee. When I first played Brawl, I thought for a minute it was slower, but I also realized that the animations were much smoother. There are more frames per character added, so the animations look less "jumpy". Really, it seems about the same speed as Melee. The only element I've noticed to be slightly slower is the falling speed of characters.

The bottom line is, Brawl is definitely capable of being competitive. People need to learn that they are two different games, and Brawl was not meant to be "Melee 2.0".

 

[Pink Reaper]

I definitely agree with you. I am pretty sure Melee's "Advanced Techniques" were not discovered within a month or two. Also, there is a whole lot more to Brawl than people are seeing. First of all, remember that post on the Dojo called "Quick Techniques." That first technique called the Ukemi. Reading about it and looking at one screenshot didn't really make much sense of the technique. Actually trying out shows that there is a whole lot more to it than meets the eye. Just because techniques like that were intentionally put in the game (unlike wavedashing, L-cancelling, etc.) does not mean that it cannot be competitive. All the games in the Halo franchise are considered competitive, and you really don't see many "Advanced Techniques".

The only thing I don't necessarily agree with in your post (that is also a general consensus) is that Brawl is "Slower" than Melee. When I first played Brawl, I thought for a minute it was slower, but I also realized that the animations were much smoother. There are more frames per character added, so the animations look less "jumpy". Really, it seems about the same speed as Melee. The only element I've noticed to be slightly slower is the falling speed of characters.

The bottom line is, Brawl is definitely capable of being competitive. People need to learn that they are two different games, and Brawl was not meant to be "Melee 2.0".

"Ukemi" is a tech, L-canceling was put in SSB and SSBM on purpose and BXR, BXB and Double Shot >_>