Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[CountKaiser]

CK - Does that include the fixed SSS? If so, thanks much. :D

From the looks of it, yeah.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

What attack were there duplicate lines for, exactly?

 

[camelot]

^ Charizard's u-smash

 

[The Cape]

So everyone complains when Ivysaur can multi upB even though her recovery is STILL worse than Ness's without infinte PKT1, but you all throw a hissy fit when Ness doesnt have infinite PKT1 and has more options to his recovery instead?

I really dont understand anyone that plays this **** thing anymore. You dont want **** that doesnt work to actually work, and you would rather have a character have three broken moves than 15 great ones.

I dont understand anything anymore. Geez.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

So everyone complains when Ivysaur can multi upB even though her recovery is STILL worse than Ness's without infinte PKT1, but you all throw a hissy fit when Ness doesnt have infinite PKT1 and has more options to his recovery instead?

I really dont understand anyone that plays this **** thing anymore. You dont want **** that doesnt work to actually work, and you would rather have a character have three broken moves than 15 great ones.

I dont understand anything anymore. Geez.

because ivy can just spam upb but recovering with ness was kind of a strategy thing as he could still be gimped and he had to aim it and stuff. besides, ivysaur>ness in many ways lol

 

[The Cape]

So Ivy can spam upB. Does that let her recovery better? It most certainly doesnt. As all you have to do is hold the ledge to edgehog her and if she is close enough to catch the tether she swings on a predictable pattern that its really simple to just stick out a move and edgeguard her.

Ivysaur infinite upBs was worse in every way than Ness's. Plain and simple.

 

[Roxas215]

because ivy can just spam upb but recovering with ness was kind of a strategy thing as he could still be gimped and he had to aim it and stuff. besides, ivysaur>ness in many ways lol

With ness buffs ness is way better then ivy.

 

[[TSON]]

So everyone complains when Ivysaur can multi upB even though her recovery is STILL worse than Ness's without infinte PKT1, but you all throw a hissy fit when Ness doesnt have infinite PKT1 and has more options to his recovery instead?

I really dont understand anyone that plays this **** thing anymore. You dont want **** that doesnt work to actually work, and you would rather have a character have three broken moves than 15 great ones.

I dont understand anything anymore. Geez.

It's because you're looking at it wrong.

We want Ness, not Lucas v2.0 with a stolen recovery option and nerfed PK thunder..

Ness isn't a solid character to begin with on the stage. He should not have a recovery option that makes PK2 obsolete, that's where I feel he should have trouble. What I'd rather have is PK2 having a use without making you look ******** for not just Zap Jumping.

The thing is, I'm wondering why you're so against having a Ness with an average recovery. You either want him to have a godly one, or one that is fail and safe to gimp.

This is stupid to even get pissed at each other over. If near-all the Ness mains of SWS and the Brawl+ chat are revolting at once, WHY WON'T YOU JUST FIX IT?

I thought we were balancing. Giving Ness zap jump isn't balanced; his lack of options is while on the stage. Try to fix that instead. His recovery was perfect last build-- He's not meant to be an all-around character.

 

[Alphatron]

So everyone complains when Ivysaur can multi upB even though her recovery is STILL worse than Ness's without infinte PKT1, but you all throw a hissy fit when Ness doesnt have infinite PKT1 and has more options to his recovery instead?

I really dont understand anyone that plays this **** thing anymore. You dont want **** that doesnt work to actually work, and you would rather have a character have three broken moves than 15 great ones.

I dont understand anything anymore. Geez.

My only beef with the new magnet is that Ness appearantly refuses to absorb projectiles during its super armor frames. Gonna test it more...but still.

The new Ness is more reasonable than 7/10 Ness, I unfortunately have to agree. The infinite PKT1 arguement was about how it made people actually bother to gimp Ness, instead of going, "lol thundah".

Though with his new options, I'm gonna back off and say that one PK Thunder(but sped up) is fine. vbrawl Ness only had double jump, while nightly Ness has a bit more before he's doomed to simply fall half of the time.

 

[PKNintendo]

Well said silent.

I don't know why people are against infinite PKT1. It doesn't even make the recovery godly.

And THE Cape. Ivy mains aren't nearly as persistent to get their point across. I mean why was it even removed?

 

[FrozenHobo]

It's because you're looking at it wrong.

We want Ness, not Lucas v2.0 with a stolen recovery option and nerfed PK thunder..

Ness isn't a solid character to begin with on the stage. He should not have a recovery option that makes PK2 obsolete, that's where I feel he should have trouble. What I'd rather have is PK2 having a use without making you look ******** for not just Zap Jumping.

The thing is, I'm wondering why you're so against having a Ness with an average recovery. You either want him to have a godly one, or one that is fail and safe to gimp.

This is stupid to even get pissed at each other over. If near-all the Ness mains of SWS and the Brawl+ chat are revolting at once, WHY WON'T YOU JUST FIX IT?

I thought we were balancing. Giving Ness zap jump isn't balanced; his lack of options is while on the stage. Try to fix that instead. His recovery was perfect last build-- He's not meant to be an all-around character.

pretty much every IC main wants CGs back. gimme.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

ugh I mean b4 ness became good. but still imo..ivy can beat ness. just by spacing bairs. cape, just stop whining like a lil *****. tbh..idc for either characters because they were good and just kept being made better while characters with real problems are ignored. (like big nosed characters who lays eggs hinthinthint). but whateverr man, keep whining about stupid stuff. im over here laughing. lol

 

[Alphatron]

Let's keep this mannerly. >_>

 

[The Cape]

You didnt notice all the changes we made to Yoshi attempting to make him better?

Also opinions on a character are due to opinions. You think Ivy is so amazing because you have Guru kicking you around with her all the time. I am still under the impression that she is not that great due to the fact that her movepool is generally poor.

As for the removal of the Ivysaur upB and the Razor leaf. It was due to the fact that people complained about it so much without taking any effort to even consider ways to handle either thing. Neither change was all that OP or broken, but people just dont want to take the time to learn how to get around something or anything of that nature.

I also dont understand why Ness mains would prefer the humongous size changes and needless B move buffs from the last set over the current Ness which has more options and new ideas than just comboing fair into itself 12 times in a row.

 

[stingers]

Double Razor Leaf with Ivy was awesome. It was also very simple to get by if someone spammed it. I still don't know why it was taken out.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Ivysaur is a new character that gained unforeseen potential with Brawl+'s changes. I feel too many people were busy looking at more obvious top tiers to sit down and figure Ivysaur out. Without precedence, Ivy got a lot of undeserved criticism. Ivysaur was rare in Brawl, so no one knew how to handle her. Otherwise people would have realized that razor leaf breaks from any move and is hardly spammable at all, much less any worst then Falco's double laser.

It's because you're looking at it wrong.

We want Ness, not Lucas v2.0 with a stolen recovery option and nerfed PK thunder..

Ness isn't a solid character to begin with on the stage. He should not have a recovery option that makes PK2 obsolete, that's where I feel he should have trouble. What I'd rather have is PK2 having a use without making you look ******** for not just Zap Jumping.

The thing is, I'm wondering why you're so against having a Ness with an average recovery. You either want him to have a godly one, or one that is fail and safe to gimp.

This is stupid to even get pissed at each other over. If near-all the Ness mains of SWS and the Brawl+ chat are revolting at once, WHY WON'T YOU JUST FIX IT?

I thought we were balancing. Giving Ness zap jump isn't balanced; his lack of options is while on the stage. Try to fix that instead. His recovery was perfect last build-- He's not meant to be an all-around character.

Ness is nothing like Lucas, and his zap jump compliments his better aerials both on-stage and off. The magnet and zap jump give him recovery options but are no means always the best thing to do. Obviously you need your double jump to zap jump(Which is much more horizontal and isn't going to get you out of bad situations underneath the stage), and magnet is going to set you up better to be edgehogged. Not only that, both of these changes make Ness' specials also have practical uses on-stage. The recovery is only as average as the way the player makes use of it, and you're exaggerating a bit about the whole ordeal.

Extra PKT1's are more of an offensive and desperate mix-up, but using movement and super armor to your advantage is a lot more tactical and brings on-stage options too. If anything, it is more Ness-like then just giving cheap extra chances. That was honestly the lazy way out (Though it did have cool applications).

 

[PKNintendo]

You didnt notice all the changes we made to Yoshi attempting to make him better?

Also opinions on a character are due to opinions. You think Ivy is so amazing because you have Guru kicking you around with her all the time. I am still under the impression that she is not that great due to the fact that her movepool is generally poor.

As for the removal of the Ivysaur upB and the Razor leaf. It was due to the fact that people complained about it so much without taking any effort to even consider ways to handle either thing. Neither change was all that OP or broken, but people just dont want to take the time to learn how to get around something or anything of that nature.

I also dont understand why Ness mains would prefer the humongous size changes and needless B move buffs from the last set over the current Ness which has more options and new ideas than just comboing fair into itself 12 times in a row.

Well to be fair, we only cared about the PK thunder B buff
The PK Flash buff marathon was mainly all me.
Also
http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3163468



EDIT:

Extra PKT1's are more of an offensive and desperate mix-up, but using movement and super armor to your advantage is a lot more tactical and brings on-stage options too. If anything, it is more Ness-like then just giving cheap extra chances. That was honestly the lazy way out (Though it did have cool applications).

A agree with the offensive statement. I stand by my recovery statement. To be fair, SA frames are really really tight.

 

[CountKaiser]

Because people *****, and moan, and whine endlessly about stupid **** that they don't want to find a way around.

I personally no longer care about infinite PKT1. Put it in, leave it out, I no longer care. Ness is fine the way he is, and he is indeed good now. People, stop whining about him already.

And skip, stop your *****ing about yoshi already, he is being worked on.

 

[PKNintendo]

To be quite honest, I would content with the PKT1 speed up. (like before)
Shanus said it was even possible.

Infinite PKT's is more of a bonus.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

You didnt notice all the changes we made to Yoshi attempting to make him better?

actually doing it and ATTEMPTING are two different things

Also opinions on a character are due to opinions. You think Ivy is so amazing because you have Guru kicking you around with her all the time. I am still under the impression that she is not that great due to the fact that her movepool is generally poor.

Yeah, yet so many people can do well with ivy. besides, guru doesn't kick me around. get your facts straight lmao, i actually have a higher win % ratio in our matches (i wouldnt say a lot, but he knows i tech chase that *** ) oh yea, but you play like those 3 randoms and i guess they are pro and win tourneys while the people i play dont win anything at all. (sarcasumz)

As for the removal of the Ivysaur upB and the Razor leaf. It was due to the fact that people complained about it so much without taking any effort to even consider ways to handle either thing. Neither change was all that OP or broken, but people just dont want to take the time to learn how to get around something or anything of that nature.

No, its because they were stupid and because guru did something at BtL with ivy's razor leaf. god, your slow.

I also dont understand why Ness mains would prefer the humongous size changes and needless B move buffs from the last set over the current Ness which has more options and new ideas than just comboing fair into itself 12 times in a row.

because every character in b+ is becoming more and more shallow/easy to use/DEAR I SAY IT? LACKING DEPTH. More and more things are gonna become guaranteed which remove from the competitive side of every game. i understand fixing some things but when you make charizards usmash link better when it wasnt even that bad to begin with is stupid and useless, just like you. your mom should've swallowed.

 

[PKNintendo]

actually doing it and ATTEMPTING are two different things



Yeah, yet so many people can do well with ivy. besides, guru doesn't kick me around. get your facts straight lmao, i actually have a higher win % ratio in our matches (i wouldnt say a lot, but he knows i tech chase that *** ) oh yea, but you play like those 3 randoms and i guess they are pro and win tourneys while the people i play dont win anything at all. (sarcasumz)



No, its because they were stupid and because guru did something at BtL with ivy's razor leaf. god, your slow.



because every character in b+ is becoming more and more shallow/easy to use/DEAR I SAY IT? LACKING DEPTH. More and more things are gonna become guaranteed which remove from the competitive side of every game. i understand fixing some things but when you make charizards usmash link better when it wasnt even that bad to begin with is stupid and useless, just like you. your mom should've swallowed.

Can you at least try to keep things remotely civil?

 

[Blank Mauser]

actually doing it and ATTEMPTING are two different things



Yeah, yet so many people can do well with ivy. besides, guru doesn't kick me around. get your facts straight lmao, i actually have a higher win % ratio in our matches (i wouldnt say a lot, but he knows i tech chase that *** ) oh yea, but you play like those 3 randoms and i guess they are pro and win tourneys while the people i play dont win anything at all. (sarcasumz)



No, its because they were stupid and because guru did something at BtL with ivy's razor leaf. god, your slow.



because every character in b+ is becoming more and more shallow/easy to use/DEAR I SAY IT? LACKING DEPTH. More and more things are gonna become guaranteed which remove from the competitive side of every game. i understand fixing some things but when you make charizards usmash link better when it wasnt even that bad to begin with is stupid and useless, just like you. your mom should've swallowed.

Stop being narrow-minded.

Characters are only as shallow and depthless as people who use them make them. I'm sorry nobody wants to take the time to actually combat a particular strategy, so you know, players actually have a reason to do something else.

Nobody wanted to figure out how Ivysaur's razor leaf could be countered, so why would Guru stop abusing it? Its not the character or developers fault, we've said countless times that they're easily broken and not spammable at all. No one has bothered to counter that statement with anything besides a single D3 vs. Ivysaur matchup.

For all the amount of people that can say that x char is limited, there only needs to be one genius out there who sees their untapped potential. I'm sorry to say I haven't seen those geniuses out of many complainers yet.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I can't keep things civil because people dont listen until you start acting out. And even if its a single match-up its not just ivysaur..but I'll leave that up to you guys since I obviously have no clue as to what I'm talking about. B+ is just becoming shallow, not because of a move can be spammed, but when everything becomes too easy. A lot of players can agree with me on this but none of them wanted to say it because you guys dont listen.

PKNintendo, even when you asked for B and people agreed with you on the ness down b thing, you were given A anyway. You were ignored. Be-aggressive. B-E, aggressive. lol

And skip, stop your *****ing about yoshi already, he is being worked on.

I'm not going to stop *****ing about yoshi. But it doesnt matter, you guys should just erase his picture off the character selection screen. lol.

 

[Roxas215]

actually doing it and ATTEMPTING are two different things



Yeah, yet so many people can do well with ivy. besides, guru doesn't kick me around. get your facts straight lmao, i actually have a higher win % ratio in our matches (i wouldnt say a lot, but he knows i tech chase that *** ) oh yea, but you play like those 3 randoms and i guess they are pro and win tourneys while the people i play dont win anything at all. (sarcasumz)



No, its because they were stupid and because guru did something at BtL with ivy's razor leaf. god, your slow.



because every character in b+ is becoming more and more shallow/easy to use/DEAR I SAY IT? LACKING DEPTH. More and more things are gonna become guaranteed which remove from the competitive side of every game. i understand fixing some things but when you make charizards usmash link better when it wasnt even that bad to begin with is stupid and useless, just like you. your mom should've swallowed.

That wasn't called for. But i have been saying this for the longest. Its like every change is making chars easier to use. Brawl+ is really changing from it's initial stance.

 

[goodoldganon]

actually doing it and ATTEMPTING are two different things



Yeah, yet so many people can do well with ivy. besides, guru doesn't kick me around. get your facts straight lmao, i actually have a higher win % ratio in our matches (i wouldnt say a lot, but he knows i tech chase that *** ) oh yea, but you play like those 3 randoms and i guess they are pro and win tourneys while the people i play dont win anything at all. (sarcasumz)



No, its because they were stupid and because guru did something at BtL with ivy's razor leaf. god, your slow.



because every character in b+ is becoming more and more shallow/easy to use/DEAR I SAY IT? LACKING DEPTH. More and more things are gonna become guaranteed which remove from the competitive side of every game. i understand fixing some things but when you make charizards usmash link better when it wasnt even that bad to begin with is stupid and useless, just like you. your mom should've swallowed.

Though the final comments were rude and not necessary, I agree with the main points. I've hated how EVERY move has become '...should now link better' How about people space the attacks better to connect with things? Sometimes we come up with cool changes like this Ness SA stuff (which needs tweaked but is still cool) but most of the recent changes in the past month have been made to make every character easier to play.

 

[PKNintendo]

I can't keep things civil because people dont listen until you start acting out. And even if its a single match-up its not just ivysaur..but I'll leave that up to you guys since I obviously have no clue as to what I'm talking about. B+ is just becoming shallow, not because of a move can be spammed, but when everything becomes too easy. A lot of players can agree with me on this but none of them wanted to say it because you guys dont listen.

PKNintendo, even when you asked for B and people agreed with you on the ness down b thing, you were given A anyway. You were ignored. Be-aggressive. B-E, aggressive. lol

So? It's better than looking like a jerk. Pissing them off isn't going to do any good now is it? Also I've been incredibly whiny. (I sport this avatar in shame)

 

[shinyspoon42]

Lots of insults in here, I just came in to check out B+, we don't need the drama people. Making a clear and concise list of the problems you are having, rather then argueing over everything. Debate is fine, but only when you are actually debating. Suggestions would probably be good as well, just...chill.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I can't keep things civil because people dont listen until you start acting out. And even if its a single match-up its not just ivysaur..but I'll leave that up to you guys since I obviously have no clue as to what I'm talking about. B+ is just becoming shallow, not because of a move can be spammed, but when everything becomes too easy. A lot of players can agree with me on this but none of them wanted to say it because you guys dont listen.

PKNintendo, even when you asked for B and people agreed with you on the ness down b thing, you were given A anyway. You were ignored. Be-aggressive. B-E, aggressive. lol

This is a stupid mindset. Whoever has been feeding you the idea that acting like an elitist moron helps your opinion be listened to doesn't have a clue.

That wasn't called for. But i have been saying this for the longest. Its like every change is making chars easier to use. Brawl+ is really changing from it's initial stance.

The depth comes from the players, the game just gives you the tools. If these tools are too easy to handle then maybe the other player needs to counter it better. The community is not so well-established yet to make claims of a shallow game, I honestly don't think they've truly seen anything yet.

 

[FrozenHobo]

your mom should've swallowed.

i'm sig-ing this. i swear to god, this is awesome.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i dont debate, i annihilate scrubs like cape. GET @ ME.
& PkNintendo, dont get on your knees for brawl+. Being a jerk will get your voice heard..as you can see, people listened. Also Cape, you can say whatever, but I'm going to leave now. Although I can guarantee I'll shut you down. And yes, I'm a jerk, I know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv9VKKXwVxU

edit: oh cool, one of my infractions go away on my girls bday. ^_^

 

[Roxas215]

i'm sig-ing this. i swear to god, this is awesome.

Its a disrespectful blow and it's very old as well. I heard that like 8 yrs ago.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Its a disrespectful blow and it's very old as well. I heard that like 8 yrs ago.

too late, its in.... thats what she said... *cough*

 

[Blank Mauser]

Though the final comments were rude and not necessary, I agree with the main points. I've hated how EVERY move has become '...should now link better' How about people space the attacks better to connect with things? Sometimes we come up with cool changes like this Ness SA stuff (which needs tweaked but is still cool) but most of the recent changes in the past month have been made to make every character easier to play.

They're making moves actually work. On the surface level it just seems like you're handing success to them, but at a higher level of play it is making the move viable period.

If a move is SDI'able, it will b e SDI'ed. There is not a lot of spacing factored into the equation honestly. This is especially true in high level play. This increases depth in high level play because now the players have more to fear, more to work with, overall more options. Rather then having a specific purpose, there is room for experimentation.

i dont debate, i annihilate scrubs like cape. GET @ ME.
& PkNintendo, dont get on your knees for brawl+. Being a jerk will get your voice heard..as you can see, people listened. Also Cape, you can say whatever, but I'm going to leave now. Although I can guarantee I'll shut you down. And yes, I'm a jerk, I know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv9VKKXwVxU

Being loud and obnoxious gets your voice heard, but it doesn't mean anyone has to care about what you say.

 

[Roxas215]

They're making moves actually work.

Stopped reading right there. The moved "actually" worked already. Only thing your doing is making it easier to land. Charizard has 8 ko moves. Now you want to make one of them easier to land then it should be? That makes no sense.

 

[GPDP]

On that note about Brawl+ becoming too easy, I can sort of agree with that. It's a big part of why kupo quit the project.

I see it with the gravity settings. We've had the tools to make many characters nice and speedy for a while now, but only a select few have been seriously looked at in this regard. Some characters have been kept deliberately floaty to make some moves brainlessly easy to execute. Marth is a good example of this. My current settings speed him up a lot, and double aerial shffls are very doable with just a little bit of practice, and with like, two buffer frames almost no practice is needed at all. But people seem content with keeping him floaty anyway because he's "good enough" and as he is, anyone can pick him up, buffer or no buffer, and instantly do double aerials like a champ, all at the expense of aerial speed.

I'm not gonna go as far as kupo did and call for arbitrary tech skill barriers like MLC or NADT, but I do have to admit the lengths to which we go to enhance ease of use is getting a bit out of hand IMO.

The reason I am so adamant about gravity settings is due to the untapped potential this project still has to fulfill. Remember "Fun Speed Activate"? Well, it's about time we did activate it. And once the new engine codes come out and any restrictions we had are lifted, there won't be an excuse to not go further in this regard.

We don't have to necessarily copy Melee. We just have to get further away from Brawl than we already have.

 

[Lil'E]

Someone suggested I posted this here, but.. meh.

I've been playing using this set for a good couple of hours and I could find no use for it. The SA frames are useless. I still don't understand the point of eating an attack when you can't even retaliate due to the wind. And depending on the characters location when the wind actually comes out... it may push them into a safe position or even push them towards the stage.

My friends have even said that once they see PSI Magnet come out they already know to look for the wind hitbox and plan accordingly. The wind comes out too slow to make use of it. And my Ike friend just prepares a counter anyway.

Wind spiking? I'll admit, that could be pretty sick. But, using PKT or PK Flash for that seems to be the better choice. Stopping approaches? I used to be able to use PKT1 for that. The tail is great and hitting them with the head pops them towards you which could lead to many things.

Someone said the new PSI Magnet helps break combos. Well, can't an air/spot dodge also do that without needing to worry about a timed SA or that great wind effect?

I am not a fan of the magnet. I'd prefer it revert to its vbrawl state as long as it brings back the multiple PKT1(preferred) or a lagless PKT1. PKT1 can not be used for anything now due to the endlag. I will propose some changes for the magnet though.

PSI Magnet is a healing special. It is not for TAKING damage. Either have him not take damage at all during the SA frames or reduce the damage he receives by 50% which in term gives him PSI Shield adding loldepth. If you want to utilize the wind hitbox, then make it come out faster than it already does. People are saying that the SA window is tight too. No it isn't. With some practice you can easily do it most of the time. This could just come from experience because I played Olimar a bit when Brawl first came out though.

/rant I suppose

As for the down tilt, well... if possible I believe it should trip again or something. I rarely use the move but it seems people can easily attack, dodge, or shield after the first dtilt.

I'm perfectly fine with everything else. If there are any videos of Ness using the 7-20 set, someone please post them.

Before someone says that I haven't given it a chance... I have and still am trying to give it a chance; however, as the only Ness player in my area within walking distance... I rely on videos from other players and input from this site from time to time. I admit that I do not know how to use the magnet to my advantage before someone says 'lol u doin it wrong'. Even if I did know how to use it, the other options seem > PSI Magnet.

 

[[TSON]]

I also dont understand why Ness mains would prefer the humongous size changes and needless B move buffs from the last set over the current Ness which has more options and new ideas than just comboing fair into itself 12 times in a row.

Why is everyone doing this.

Honestly.

THE FAIR CHANGES DIDN'T NEED TO BE THERE. WE'RE OK WITH THAT. THE MAIN PROBLEM IS INFINITE PK2. And dtilt changes that I personally wish didn't exits but that's beside the point.

Ness is nothing like Lucas, and his zap jump compliments his better aerials both on-stage and off. The magnet and zap jump give him recovery options but are no means always the best thing to do. Obviously you need your double jump to zap jump(Which is much more horizontal and isn't going to get you out of bad situations underneath the stage), and magnet is going to set you up better to be edgehogged. Not only that, both of these changes make Ness' specials also have practical uses on-stage. The recovery is only as average as the way the player makes use of it, and you're exaggerating a bit about the whole ordeal.

No. Ness's zap jump is a pointless addition that gives him something that he doesn't need. Again, I will say, HE HAD AN AVERAGE RECOVERY; HE DOESN'T NEED ANYTHING ELSE. IF YOU'RE SO OFFENDED BY THE FACT THAT HE STRUGGLES TO GET BACK TO THE STAGE, MAKE PK2 GO FARTHER. Zap jump. Is pointless. It pushes my buttons to the max. And who uses any aerial out of djump other than nair and dair anyways? These may look neat, but it's a stupid switchoff. Ness needs better capabilities onstage to make up for what he lacks in recovery. He is supposed to lack in recovery. LACK IN RECOVERY.

LACK. IN. RECOVERY.

Extra PKT1's are more of an offensive and desperate mix-up, but using movement and super armor to your advantage is a lot more tactical and brings on-stage options too. If anything, it is more Ness-like then just giving cheap extra chances. That was honestly the lazy way out (Though it did have cool applications).

You can have your **** super armor. Ness is too easy to gimp now. TOO EASY, PIECE OF CAKE. And you decide "Hmm, let's give him Zap Jump!!!1" HE DOESN'T NEED ANOTHER WAY TO RECOVER. If anything, you should have just made PK thunder infinite again, or made PK2 go farther. Those should have been the only two considerable solutions.

Well to be fair, we only cared about the PK thunder B buff
The PK Flash buff marathon was mainly all me.

I love meh some PK Flash as well. But tbh, I would trade any recent change for infinite upB. Except the yoyo. The yoyo is awesome.

I can't keep things civil because people dont listen until you start acting out. And even if its a single match-up its not just ivysaur..but I'll leave that up to you guys since I obviously have no clue as to what I'm talking about. B+ is just becoming shallow, not because of a move can be spammed, but when everything becomes too easy. A lot of players can agree with me on this but none of them wanted to say it because you guys dont listen.

This is why I continue to fight.



...



For my friends.

Also Yoshi should have Roy's dtilt popup kthxbai *runs*

 

[PKNintendo]

Haha LMAO at your post.

I hope the Brawl + team doesn't suddenly quit... I didn't know Kupo left.


Shoot...

 

[stingers]

why are all the ness mainers a bunch of ****ing babies?

 

[5ive]

On that note about Brawl+ becoming too easy, I can sort of agree with that. It's a big part of why kupo quit the project.

I'm pretty sure Brawl+ is meant to be "beginner friendly" per-say. I'm not speaking for the whole project, but this is called Brawl+. It's easy to pick up, but hard to master; similar to vBrawl. Of course we can all agree these changes make for a faster, and deeper game. By deeper, I mean there are more offensive options making the game more fluid, rather than an overly defensive game in what we call Brawl.

We can argue for days, but no one is forcing anyone to play, or part-take in this project. It's fine that Kupo left, but I, myself truly enjoy this game and it's game play that caters offense.

The "ease" you state is exactly what we are aiming for. Easy to pick up, but hard to master. So what if you can double fair easily? Will that really make for a win in the long run? No. It is how the player handles the character which translates into a win. This is comparable in Melee; wavedash =/= win. It can help, but it is merely a tool to HELP oneself win. No matter how easy it is to execute moves, winning at a high level requires a higher level of thinking.

Also, if Kupo isn't a part of the project anymore, why is he still in the WBR? There are a lot of deserving people who could fill that spot *cough*.