Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)

[FalconPunch]

lol orphan nice one

 

[R i p]

I haven't seen evidence that Brawl can't be functionally competitive, not that I expect it this early. While it's all true about camping being much more important, there is nothing to prove that it will be completely dominated by camping. The OP is a theory based on more defense techniques popping up. But I don't think that counts as evidence. My evidence is that it simply isn't now. Easy to prove wrong right?

Also, saying Brawl is less fun is entirely opinion. Saying its videos are boring also is entirely opinion. Personally, I cannot agree. So can that not be brought up?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

We're not trying to play it as if it were Melee. We're trying to play it as if it were a Competitive fighting game... and it sucks as that.

We have adopted. We just don't like the little orphan we picked up.

I prefer the new orphan. The last one had A.D.D. and slided around everywhere instead of walking.

 

[Corigames]

I prefer the new orphan. The last one had A.D.D. and slided around everywhere instead of walking.

And this one trips. I'll take the ice skater over the ******.

 

[Samochan]

I prefer the new orphan. The last one had A.D.D. and slided around everywhere instead of walking.

And this one trips. I'll take the ice skater over the ******.

XD Awesome

 

[Gill]

And this one trips. I'll take the ice skater over the ******.

COUNTER!!!

 

[SmashingFleX]

come on guys teh ice is going to break :D:D
Its a new ära und we need new content to make new experience with smash^^
I stil think melee is a great game but whatelse do you want to discover?
In germany we would say "Die Luft ist raus.." It is/was a great game. But its time to get something really new =)

 

[Yuna]

come on guys teh ice is going to break :D:D
Its a new ära und we need new content to make new experience with smash^^
I stil think melee is a great game but whatelse do you want to discover?
In germany we would say "Die Luft ist raus.." It is/was a great game. But its time to get something really new =)

New =/= Better

You've been eating sugared donuts for all your life. Then along comes, um... blood donuts with the flavour of blood. You don't really like it, like, at all... but it's new, right? Must be better than those old sugared donuts you've been eating for years!

No, really, the "new" argument is one of the worst ones. Just because it's new doesn't mean we must or even should jump ship if it's just so much inferior to what we once had or just plain bad. Of course, whether or not it's inferior or bad is subject to opinion. However, it's stupid to switch just because it's new.

 

[SmashingFleX]

lol...
what a cheap way of discussn...
Brawl isnt a blood donut and to compare Brawl with blood donuts is the dumbest thing Ive ever read xD

come on, When you think that Melee is teh 1337 **** and you want to stick with it then stick with it and let teh people go who think its time for something new, wo think that brawl is awsome like melee was when it was released and who see potential in this game...
U still can play Melee (I will stick with melee too but I love Brawl same Like I laoved Melee from the start) and nobody will say: "omg.. look at this noob, hes playin that old ****.." !
I really dont get why we shouldnt play brawl when it is a funny game like melee is...
And fun should be the most important target while playin a game
If you dont think so you maybe go and talk with your psychiatrist cause you could be a hardcore nerd
(pls dont take teh last sentence to serious... but Impissed when I read one-dimensional posts like yours..)

 

[Yuna]

How is my analogy faulty?

You just said "Its a new ära und we need new content to make new experience with smash" while also saying "It is/was a great game". So basically you're saying "Melee is great but Brawl is new, therefore we should automatically switch over to Brawl... because it's new."

The blood donut would be new as opposed to the sugared donut. Doesn't mean it's better. And if it's worse, then there's no reason to switch other than that it's "newer".

 

[SmashingFleX]

the point is brwl isnt worse...
but people like you cant accept it, everyones different and so are their tastes... i accept that but you dont Think about that..

When you wan t to play Melee stick with it but leave us brawler alone (LOLOLOLO!!!111eleflef LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE xD)


do you get my message now?

 

[Yuna]

the point is brwl isnt worse...
but people like you cant accept it, everyones different and so are their tastes... i accept that but you dont Think about that..

What part of "Of course, whether or not it's inferior or bad is subject to opinion" (verbatim quote of what I said just a few posts back) was too hard for you to understand?

When you wan t to play Melee stick with it but leave us brawler alone (LOLOLOLO!!!111eleflef LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE xD)

You said "We should all switch to Brawl because it's new", how is that not telling Melee-players to change? At least I didn't criticize you for liking Brawl over Melee. I just criticized you for wanting to switch over just because it's new.

do you get my message now?

Your message of stupidity? Your message of hypocrisy? Or your inability to grasp basic English?

 

[thumbswayup]

I'm honestly awaiting the day a pro places second in an MLG tournament because he tripped into an f smash and loses 5 grand in the process. I think everyone's opinion of brawl as a competitive game will drastically change at that point.

 

[SmashingFleX]

I never said that you have to switch to brawl c.O
That my english is not the best is another story, bringing this in our discussn about Brawl and melee is more than cowardly :D :D ,)
Are you kind of aggressive? (maybe cause you know that you epic failed? omg fanatic -.-)
Stay formal when you want to discuss with people...

"I didn't criticize you for liking Brawl over Melee. I just criticized you for wanting to switch over just because it's new."

Do youve got a wonderland in your closet? or where did you find that thing about me wanting you to change teh game cO?

 

[Fletch]

Yuna is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters.

 

[thumbswayup]

That's because he destroys noobs in arguements.

 

[SmashingFleX]

:D:D:D lol fanboys... how cute

 

[Pikaville]

Blood donuts! That made me laugh!

 

[6footninja]

That's because he destroys noobs in arguements.

frequently, sometimes it's satisfying,,,,

Im glad this thread makes sense...

....

 

[Yuna]

I never said that you have to switch to brawl c.O
That my english is not the best is another story, bringing this in our discussn about Brawl and melee is more than cowardly :D :D ,)
Are you kind of aggressive? (maybe cause you know that you epic failed? omg fanatic -.-)
Stay formal when you want to discuss with people...

"I didn't criticize you for liking Brawl over Melee. I just criticized you for wanting to switch over just because it's new."

Do youve got a wonderland in your closet? or where did you find that thing about me wanting you to change teh game cO?

"Its a new ära und we need new content to make new experience with smash^^
I stil think melee is a great game but whatelse do you want to discover?
In germany we would say "Die Luft ist raus.." It is/was a great game. But its time to get something really new =)"

I'm sorry if I jumped the most obvious conclusion of what you're trying to say here:
"Brawl is new and it's one very good reason for why we should switch from Melee to it."

 

[mangodurban]

I'm honestly awaiting the day a pro places second in an MLG tournament because he tripped into an f smash and loses 5 grand in the process. I think everyone's opinion of brawl as a competitive game will drastically change at that point.

what about when tripping allows him to miss a fsmash that would have been fatal had he not tripped, then he comes back and winds, and wins 5 grand in the process, i think your opinion of brawl as a competitive game should drastically change at that point.

 

[Yuna]

what about when tripping allows him to miss a fsmash that would have been fatal had he not tripped, then he comes back and winds, and wins 5 grand in the process, i think your opinion of brawl as a competitive game should drastically change at that point.

It's not quite clear what you're trying to say here. Are you saying:
What if Player A is behind and Player B is about to Fsmash him but Player B trips, making the Fsmash whiff and Player A will then proceed to win due to a comeback?

That's equally as bad. An inherently random feature just saved him from losing 5 grand and the player who should've won was punished because of something he had absolutely no control over.

Tripping is bad. Stop trying to make sense of it.

 

[thumbswayup]

What Yuna said.

 

[IrArby]

Agreed what Yuna said. Tripping is dumb.

After following this thread somewhat consistently since it began I think its fair to say that the "Brawlers" have lost this argument and as evidence I offer this. Though I don't know him personally at all, I would think that Gimpyfish would have posted somewhere recently (seeing as this was his thread and he was obviously interested in people counter arguments to his opinion) if he felt that legitimate or intelligent counter arguments were being made. As Gimpy said from the start, he wanted this game to be something new and competitive just as much as anyone else. I would argue that he would be very interested in anyone who offered geniune evidence to the contrary.

But they haven't and so Gimpyfish doesn't bother to post here anymore. Your thoughts?

 

[Wolfang]

It'll only be backwards progression (oxymoron, moron) if people neglect and shirk Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And if it is grim, there is still Melee. I would say just move on and get used to it, but as its been reveled or whined about time and time again, certain aspects of the game are out of our control. Yea I'm talking about tripping again. mangodurban's point about avoiding a Final Smash doesn't justify the transpiring of a move in the game we cannot master. Tripping is displeasing no matter what way it's put, unless you get lucky and avoid certain death, but if your strategy is hoping to get fortunate, then you don't have a strategy at all.

That other thing, where people think they should move on because its new? Why not, you have nothing to lose. If something turns out to be a bust, you still have a fall back, but the purpose shouldn't be to move on because its new, it should be to learn something new-er. Your not giving up on something you played for 7 years, nor are you going to forget. The game is still new, so throwing your degradations out there will certainly affect how others view the game, but for the people that think one is better than the other, keep it to yourself, have fun, and practice so hard that you can see the old in the new.

Personally I believe Brawl will develop into a serious fighting all over again (like Melee) when Smashers on a whole lose the attitude towards what was and what is, and just apply themselves to becoming prestigious in both. It'll bring more competition, more challenge, and more AT's to the game as everyone develops the game to its full potential together. That's when players will begin to dare others to face them in combat, because the Smash community for Brawl will be so outstanding in the game (as was/is in Melee) that there will be something worth fighting for.

Knowledge is power, it doesn't hurt to learn something new while retaining whats honorary.

 

[The Drizzle]

Random things like tripping, MUCH slower gameplay, things are even more imbalanced with certain things easily spammable and pretty much not punishable. Oh, and the almost lack of combos entirely.

BACK TO MELEE EVERYONE. Where sexy combos and doctors with amazing mustaches roam the land.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Mango and Yuna, you're not tripping if you're about to Fsmash. You don't trip standing still or walking. Ignore the fallacies of that statement, will you.

 

[NES n00b]

I prove that I make the progression go fowards with my awesome Wifi skills. lolololololz

I hope in the next smash you can trip while doing attacks and increase the percentage of it happening by a tad. That way teh characters will be more balanced.

 

[Zankoku]

Mango and Yuna, you're not tripping if you're about to Fsmash. You don't trip standing still or walking. Ignore the fallacies of that statement, will you.

I've tripped when trying to fsmash with control stick and A before. I've also fsmashed when trying to dash attack before. It's really annoying.

 

[Pseudoshot]

The definition of Combo in brawl is: holding the A button while hitting an opponent next to a wall.
There aren't even any invincibility frames for teching anymore (the rolling part right after you tech you are vulnerable). I get my *** f-smashed when I roll towards them for mindgames, so they'll wiff out the f-smash but then it just has to flipping hit me...

 

[mangodurban]

yuna, bro, im not trying to explain tripping nor was i stating its good, it sucks, but it is a small probability the tripping will ruin a 5000 dollar game. I trip 1 maybe 2 times in a 3 stock, 90% of the times i have tripped it has had little effect on the game. 5% it helps me miss getting killed. 5% it kills me. No its not fair, but it happens to both parties, and yes neither have control over if it( from what we know now), but both have the possibility of it effecting them good or bad, yes random, but even and if it does happen in a championship match. There is very small chance it will happen again so it wont make people who are the best not win the most, they just may lose a game off a fluke. sucks, i know but complaining does nothing, however examining the odds help understand tripping, and thats what needs to be done. Though, one more time incase you dont get it, I HATE TRIPPING, its Brawl though and thats the way it goes.

oh and I was saying with what you didn't understand, player a fsmash at player b (WHILE b is say..mario about to jump and bair for the win because they were both at 150%) but he trips and the action is stopped. who would have won, the fsmash or bair, its all about the angle but with the trip, it was haulted and b mindgames a and upsmashes him. -thats a situation it works in. (the reason i worded it like i did, though it fell into how you criticized it, was for the mirror humor of copying the guy i was quoting almost verbatim. It obviously fell unsuccessful.)

BTW yuna, just wondering, how do you feel about peach pulling out bombs in melee or luigis over b getting the boost and killing the opponent. that seems in some sense worse than tripping because it only effects one character not both equally. just wondering.

 

[Sundown]

I think what mango meant was:

What if Player A that is behind is about to get totally destroyed by Player Bs forward smash (running into it) and then Player A trips and gets saved and comebacks and wins.

The response is exactly as what Yuna said though... then thats WRONG because player A deserved to loose and Player B just lost 5 grand due to something he couldnt control.

Equally bad

 

[Dogysamich]

It sounds kind of like Virtua Fighter - the game being built at it's highest level about purely defensive strategies. Last I checked, Virtua Fighter was pretty respected. Melee... not so much.

Onwards and upwards.

oh that made me laugh.

last i checked, nobody really played virtua fighter cause it was too **** technical.

but somehow brawl slipped into evo.

Oh that's right, brawl made it into evo because of melee's hype.

XD

 

[Rhubarbo]

oh that made me laugh.

last i checked, nobody really played virtua fighter cause it was too **** technical.

but somehow brawl slipped into evo.

Oh that's right, brawl made it into evo because of melee's hype.

XD

Yeah, nicely put. Brawl would never be played competitively if it wasn't for Melee. Imagine if this was the first Smash, no one would play it at a high level.

 

[Corigames]

The thing is, when Peach got a bomb-omb, beam sword, or Mr. Saturn, you had to do the move. You knew WHEN your opponent was going to get it. They are doing their down B, they are going to have some projectile. Most of the time it was a turnip, other times it wasn't. At least with that situation, you could shield what she threw at you or catch it. So, even when she did pull out something, you could reverse it and put it back on her. She also had a CHOICE in the matter. She didn't have to use that move if she didn't want to. Same for Luigi. They had the OPTION not to use it.

In Brawl, we are all forced to live with tripping. No matter what you do, you are eventually going to have to move on the ground. When you do, you have a chance to trip. you can't choose not to do one move that gives you a chance of tripping, no. It's in the game, for everyone, your choice of tripping or not.

I think we should have a right to *****, complain, moan, whine, and get mad if EVERYONE, unanimously, agrees that tripping should not have put in. Which, last time I checked, we do. There is no reason to like it.

 

[SiegKnight]

oh that made me laugh.

last i checked, nobody really played virtua fighter cause it was too **** technical.

but somehow brawl slipped into evo.

Oh that's right, brawl made it into evo because of melee's hype.

XD

I play virtua fighter because of such technicality and love it. Its the most popular videogame in japan aside from Dragon Quest and Pokemon. I mean it.

Why is too technical bad? Virtua Fighter is very respected for being the most technical fighter created, even if it isn't played much. People who don't play it still respect its depth.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Yeah, nicely put. Brawl would never be played competitively if it wasn't for Melee. Imagine if this was the first Smash, no one would play it at a high level.

Disagree.
If there was no Melee or 64, this thread wouldn't exist and everyone would love Brawl and think it was awesome.

In fact, if Brawl came out first, and then Melee, this thread would say instead, "Melee will have backwards progressoin because it focuses on tech rather than strategy".

These arguments need to just stop. They are two different games and are both equally suitable for competitive play. Some people prefer one or the other, and some like both. A preference is a preference.

These people that are saying "Brawl isn't competitive" need to shut up and go to a Brawl tournament. That's not a matter of opinion, Brawl works FINE for tournaments and thats a demonstrable fact. The metagame is improving at a faster rate than Melee's did. The "pros" own the noobs on a regular basis, just like in any tournament game.

It's slower, so what. Its a different game.
It doesn't have as many "combos"? so what its a different game.
It doesn't have as many movement options? So what, its a different game.

NO other fighting game has as many movement options as Melee either. But no one cares because it's a DIFFERENT GAME. Why is Brawl the exception? because of the arbitrary fact that its part of the same series?

 

[Bud]

theONEjanitor- I agree with what you said and i feel the same way, however, the more people that quit brawl and go back to melee, only increases your/my/our odds of winning at a tourny. That is one plus to the whole argument......(sarcastic truth).

 

[Zankoku]

It's slower, so what. Its a different game.
It doesn't have as many "combos"? so what its a different game.
It doesn't have as many movement options? So what, its a different game.

You're justifying Brawl having less things in three distinct categories by saying it's a different game. I mean, I suppose I could say that not enough people appreciate checkers compared to chess, because even though there are fewer movement options and less strategy involved, so what? It's a different game.

I'm okay with Brawl being a competitive game, but completely disregarding its weaker points just because it's a "different game" is not an approach I understand.

 

[just1111]

yuna.... i think you thrive on arguing with scrubs... i dont post much around here... but i've been on these boards a very very long time... longer than most "pros"... and you're always itching for someone to argue with... not saying its a bad thing... just saying... and yes i use a ton of .....


haha


P.S. cant we all just get a bong?
the fact of the matter is brawl is new and brawl is going to outshine melee... for the rest of forever. Whether you think the game is better or not is irrelevent. Suck it up and play brawl... because no one else will be playing melee in a couple years... well there at least wont be anymore big tournies.