Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[KevinM]

Unplug his controller

 

[Mew2King]

im far from perfect all i do is make mistakes

 

[ComboTurtle]

does asdi work ok when di'ing fox's uthrow uair? like what i mean is can u hold the direction on the c stick and then try and sdi the uair aswell? im sorta confused about asdi

 

[xelad1]

im far from perfect all i do is make mistakes

so how does a less than perfect person such as yourself deal with this sort of problem

 

[LuCKy]

i wanna combo into forward b meteor combo thingie......this possible? or ever been done?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

i wanna combo into forward b meteor combo thingie......this possible? or ever been done?

It's in Wound of the Wind, and it is highly situational as well as being possible to DI out of.

does asdi work ok when di'ing fox's uthrow uair? like what i mean is can u hold the direction on the c stick and then try and sdi the uair aswell? im sorta confused about asdi

ASDI works on everything with hitlag.

If you want to SDI and ASDI in the same direction, just SDI and then continue holding the stick in that direction.

 

[JesiahTEG]

i wanna combo into forward b meteor combo thingie......this possible? or ever been done?

Yes, I've done it LOL AND IT"S AMAZING!

Seriously though, there's a vid on youtube of Ken vs DSF where Ken almost does it, but DSF meteor cancels it...It's awesome though.

 

[Keitaro]

im far from perfect all i do is make mistakes

Not when you do Marth ditto friendlies saying "Uh-oh, spegettios!" during combos the entire time. You should do it in tourney matches. I think it helps your tech skill.

 

[FrostByte]

let me simplify what cactuar said: it's better to hold down because you'll usually either be able to CC or tech-roll instantly into the ground and not be knocked off the stage by say..... a marth ditto weak F smash, or high % down tilt.

Obv why Peach is gay.

 

[Scar]

What is the Captain Falcon vs Marth matchup like? I hear that it's one of Marth's hardest matchups, along with Sheik and Fox. The arguments supporting this work under the assumptions that Marth wins at the edge, and CF wins onstage. Basically, if CF is a strong enough player onstage, his combos and relatively low % knee KOs make up for his abominable recovery and marth's amazing edgeguards.

The same principles follow for every Marth matchup, since he simply is not a terribly strong on-stage character. Sheik wins becasue of how difficult it is to edgeguard her, and she therefore wins onstage and has no problem off. Fox is an even matchup and is simply not dominated by Marth because he can kill off of the top, so he really has no need to ever go near the edge.

Falcon however needs to kill off the side. Most of his throw autocombos vs. other characters can be stopped by Marth's fair, and on small stages Falcon simply has nowhere to go besides Marth's tipper or grab range.

So back to my original question, do you think the matchup is even, that Falcon wins, that Marth wins, or that it's entirely stage-dependent? And as a respected Marth main (with an admittedly atypical style) what has your experience been vs. CFs of equal skill level?

<3

p.s. This was prompted by me watching vids of me demoralizing RoyKid's Marth on FD.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Since when is Marth bad on stage and what makes him bad onstage?

Where have I been since this discovery?

 

[Mew2King]

marth is amazing on stage, just not vs captain falcon

he cant combo falcon as easily as most characters, unless he gets uair strings or something but he combos other characters better, AND more easily set up

falcon just gimps marth at low %s with easy combos than marth can't do back to falcon unless already at the very edge when falcon comes to him

watch this vid, Azen vs Jiano - http://youtube.com/watch?v=rHBE89jQ4PM

look how perfect Azen plays for the most part, and all the unnecessary damage he racks up, only for Jiano to take 3 stocks when Azen takes 2, just showing what the matchup is like.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's all Scar had to say. Marth's onstage game suffers due to Falcon's speed and suffocating dash dance since he will always be on top of Marth.

Anyway, I think the match is slightly in Falcon's Favor. He can always combo Marth at any percent where as Marth must rely on tech chasing to get in early damage or get edge gimps.

But Falcon has superior mobility so it's somewhat easiar for him to keep the match in the center of the stage.

Plus once Marth hit's a high enough percent CF will always have a garuanteed kill using either d-throw to knee or u-throw to knee. Replace knee with uair if Marth's percent is really really high.

Falcon can't approach Marth recklessly, but I think it's easiar for him to stay in control.

Marth really has to...

WATCH OUT FOR TEH KNEE!!!!

Seriously the knee hurts as a finisher and Falcon set-ups Marth for those like nobodies business.

 

[Cort]

I made a decent post about being really homosexual in the Marth vs Fox matchup in my thread. I don't think enough people know how to play the matchup M2K style. My style is dumbed down M2K style :D

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3735231&postcount=1501

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I made a decent post about being really homosexual in the Marth vs Fox matchup in my thread. I don't think enough people know how to play the matchup M2K style. My style is dumbed down M2K style :D

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3735231&postcount=1501

Ya, I saw that. Lol @ being homosexual.

 

[Jollies]

I know I make you happy/sad every time we play. Does this all stem from my disgustingly bad Marth?

 

[Grand Champion]

Any more questions?

edit// Oh yeah, great Marth trick vs Fox I stole from M2K. If at any point you grab Fox and you can dthrow him so he lands right near the ledge, do it like 95% of the time. As soon as you dthrow turn around and duck, slightly delay a dtilt then IMMEDIATELY turn back around.

If they tech in place, they eat a dtilt, if they tech away, they eat a dtilt, if they don't tech, they eat a dtilt. If they tech into the stage (usually do) you CAN grab them before they can do anything if you do it correctly. It's a frame perfect strategy and it's really not that hard if you practice it enough.

Simply ask your friend to always tech into the stage after being dthrown, then hold L or R + c stick down to buffer a ground dodge. If they dodge your regrab (after you missed your dtilt), you're not turning around after the dtilt fast enough. The IASA frames of dtilt are ridiculous...

This does not work as well vs Falco because his tech is much longer than Fox's. Fox's tech roll distance is perfect for this strategy because Marth doesn't need to move from his place. You can do it vs Falco once or twice, but you have to move toward him to regrab him.

Can you have a video of this? How does turning back immediately relate to countering techs?

 

[Grand Champion]

Never mind, I thought you meant d-tliting against ledge techs.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

This thread is so dead......

 

[Professer-MMP]

This thread is so dead......

well then i have a horrible revival question
though this is only horrible because its probably been asked and the search bar just failed me

anyway when playing my friends fox his whole game is basically shine, dash dance grab, and thunders combo (assuming he calls it the right thing, up throw to uairs) he can basically get me to 80% and <10 secs if he gets a grab off... he says theres no way out of it unless he screws up his timing and i can get a fair in to screw him up but that usually leads to a usmash or utily or uthrow to uair anyway... now i assume smash di would help... but i dont get that much... or i do and it doesnt help. i know that the chain grab with utilts to fsmash or ken combo really punish them (if i get it off) so i know how to fight him if i could just stop that combo

so any suggestions?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

well then i have a horrible revival question
though this is only horrible because its probably been asked and the search bar just failed me

anyway when playing my friends fox his whole game is basically shine, dash dance grab, and thunders combo (assuming he calls it the right thing, up throw to uairs) he can basically get me to 80% and <10 secs if he gets a grab off... he says theres no way out of it unless he screws up his timing and i can get a fair in to screw him up but that usually leads to a usmash or utily or uthrow to uair anyway... now i assume smash di would help... but i dont get that much... or i do and it doesnt help. i know that the chain grab with utilts to fsmash or ken combo really punish them (if i get it off) so i know how to fight him if i could just stop that combo

so any suggestions?

Do you live in Europe? In the American version of Smash, (NTSC) thunders combo can't be done on Marth because he doesn't fall to the shine. Remember, thunders combo is jabbing a character that has fallen to the ground after being hit by a shine to make him stand up and then combo with vertical launchers (nairs sometimes as well).

If he likes to dash dance, you should, too. Marth's DD is decidedly better than Fox' so if he isn't shooting lasers, no need to rush in carelessly. Pivoting helps a lot, although it is very difficult to do consistently. Basically, just watch him well. If he likes to grab so much, you should start noticing patterns to when he grabs. If you do, you can predict his grab, dodge it in some way (WD back, spotdodge) and then punish with a grab of your own.

If he does get a grab in, at low %'s it's hard to avoid uairs, Just ASDI to try and get away, or SDI if you can get the timing down. It's definitely escapable, though, learn the stun of Fox' uair and jump out/do something to **** him up when the stun is over.

It's a grabbing game vs. Fox, so just be very careful to not get grabs, but get your own grabs in.

Anyone feel free to correct bull**** in my post. Sorry Cactuar if I answered a question directed at you, but I want to revitalize the marth boards.

 

[sagemoon]

^

Kinda what he said but the jab to upthrow will work in both versions. basically though, if you see a shine jab go off, immediately DI behind the fox. Especially at high percents this will help you a lot. At low percents though, its best to just DI the up throw back then the up air forward, that way they can only get off one. It takes some reaction time but i'm sure you can get used to it.

 

[Professer-MMP]

Do you live in Europe? In the American version of Smash, (NTSC) thunders combo can't be done on Marth because he doesn't fall to the shine. Remember, thunders combo is jabbing a character that has fallen to the ground after being hit by a shine to make him stand up and then combo with vertical launchers (nairs sometimes as well).

If he likes to dash dance, you should, too. Marth's DD is decidedly better than Fox' so if he isn't shooting lasers, no need to rush in carelessly. Pivoting helps a lot, although it is very difficult to do consistently. Basically, just watch him well. If he likes to grab so much, you should start noticing patterns to when he grabs. If you do, you can predict his grab, dodge it in some way (WD back, spotdodge) and then punish with a grab of your own.

If he does get a grab in, at low %'s it's hard to avoid uairs, Just ASDI to try and get away, or SDI if you can get the timing down. It's definitely escapable, though, learn the stun of Fox' uair and jump out/do something to **** him up when the stun is over.

It's a grabbing game vs. Fox, so just be very careful to not get grabs, but get your own grabs in.

Anyone feel free to correct bull**** in my post. Sorry Cactuar if I answered a question directed at you, but I want to revitalize the marth boards.

ok so thunders combo is diffferent than I had though. he just did up throw (uair x3)

as for the DD i know his pattern for it I just can't figure anything to do to stop it. he rarely DD when we're both standing, but when I'm on the ground and he's close enough he'll DD in a way that if i roll towards him he'll be at the end of his DD and he can just pivot grab or get the full turn and grab. however if i roll back then he'll grab or dash attack before i can do anything (though now that i think about it I'm guessing jab would stop this). if i just stand up then i get what i said from the back roll and/or a usmash

its ok (though i guess this is cactuars place to say that) i was putting it here cuz i didnt feel like putting it in the Q&A section for marth lol

At low percents though, its best to just DI the up throw back then the up air forward, that way they can only get off one. It takes some reaction time but i'm sure you can get used to it.

uair forward? ... you mean DI behind him then at some point DI towards him and uair?
i dont see how that would hit him if hes coming from below me... but i know you're good so ill trust you or trust me in that im misunderstanding lol

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Wavedashing, dash dancing, and Fox trotting are your movement friends.

Don't try to get away with a roll if he's smart enough to punish it. Just dash dance out of his reach and wait for him to make a mistake. You could also try doing some "safe" moves that marth has. You could shffl a nair to go past him, or you could space a shffl'd fair into dtilt, stuff like that is really hard to punish, and if it hits, it's a great setup.

 

[Cactuar]

@Professor-P: To prevent getting uair combo'd x3, the basic advice is to DI the up throw behind the Fox and spam forward air. If they have good timing, the forward air won't really come out or hit, and you should DI that first uair in the opposite direction that you were just DIing. So basically go back and forth in the air. It forces the Fox to jump in one direction, putting them as far away from you as possible.

As for tricksies...

If you see him run at you, just stand there and grab. You are Marth, king of the grab game. If he starts jumping in instead, dash back, turn around and grab. If they laser spam you, get close, then wait for one of the first two options. If you really need to start being offensive, get close and force a spot dodge, then grab. If they start getting used to you anticipating spot dodge, just immediately grab.

Starting to see a pattern?

@Witchking: "Wavedashing, dash dancing, and Fox trotting are your movement friends."

These are the basic movement tricks. Once you start learning how to abuse wavedash momentum, you can really start mind****ing people.

 

[Virgilijus]

Cactuar - Do you still go Marth for the majority of tourneys? A while ago I know you said you were switching to Fox more than you'd prefer.

 

[Cactuar]

I actually went all Fox for pound 3.

 

[Aesir]

Yeah his fox nairs to laser. True story.

 

[Scar]

If you see him run at you, just stand there and grab. You are Marth, king of the grab game. If he starts jumping in instead, dash back, turn around and grab. If they laser spam you, get close, then wait for one of the first two options. If you really need to start being offensive, get close and force a spot dodge, then grab. If they start getting used to you anticipating spot dodge, just immediately grab.

YOU'RE SO GAY.

 

[Takumaru]

God cactaur, you're starting to sound like drephen...

 

[Professer-MMP]

Wavedashing, dash dancing, and Fox trotting are your movement friends.

Don't try to get away with a roll if he's smart enough to punish it. Just dash dance out of his reach and wait for him to make a mistake. You could also try doing some "safe" moves that marth has. You could shffl a nair to go past him, or you could space a shffl'd fair into dtilt, stuff like that is really hard to punish, and if it hits, it's a great setup.

what else am i supposed to do if i miss a tech? roll is pretty much the only option when you're laying on the ground, that or attacking... but that rarely works anymore. nairing past him doesnt usually work he shields wait for me to get behind him and grabs (sometimes before i even land)

@Professor-P: To prevent getting uair combo'd x3, the basic advice is to DI the up throw behind the Fox and spam forward air. If they have good timing, the forward air won't really come out or hit, and you should DI that first uair in the opposite direction that you were just DIing. So basically go back and forth in the air. It forces the Fox to jump in one direction, putting them as far away from you as possible.

As for tricksies...

If you see him run at you, just stand there and grab. You are Marth, king of the grab game. If he starts jumping in instead, dash back, turn around and grab. If they laser spam you, get close, then wait for one of the first two options. If you really need to start being offensive, get close and force a spot dodge, then grab. If they start getting used to you anticipating spot dodge, just immediately grab.

Starting to see a pattern?

@Witchking: "Wavedashing, dash dancing, and Fox trotting are your movement friends."

These are the basic movement tricks. Once you start learning how to abuse wavedash momentum, you can really start mind****ing people.

ah ok that sounds good... finally a way to get out of it lol hopefully
i have a problem with grabbing lol... ever since i learner to utilize the shield grab i've disregarded the regular grab, its now a thought process to do a normal one. so itll take some getting used to but i guess i can do it lol

about the pattern. yea i know exactly how he does it as we play soooo much... im just usually on the ground when it happens other wise he sits there, laser spams and waits for me. which I guess is where that last part comes into play, i guess the fair to dtilt will come in handy there too

 

[Cactuar]

Don't fair to dtilt vs fox. I suggest a fair near them, and when they run forward, you dash behind them and turn around grab, or dash away and wait. Try and get the fair -> dash as close to frame perfect as possible, so that you are immediately running out of landing. The fox will tend to aim for where you land or overshoot it by a little, and by moving behind the fox, you create a giant opening to grab them with.

 

[Mew2King]

I like to throw them up and catch them again

 

[Teczer0]

Cactuar you camp in people's face like no other.....

It only works because your so awesome.

Do you have other advice for not so amazing players?

LOL j/k <3 Cactus

 

[Scar]

I like to throw them up and catch them again

LMAO... what a funny person. Melee is so good.

 

[Brookman]

I like to play the tall gay character.

 

[Cactuar]

I like to play you.

 

[Brookman]

no... =(

 

[Aesir]

I'd like to be Bateman for a day

 

[Professer-MMP]

I like to throw them up and catch them again

well yes... i do too
im just not perfect at it like you are
i usually get about 30-40% with it though... its just that you cant practice that against comps...