Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Teczer0]

What are the appropriate times for counter?

When someone hits you.

 

[marthmaster59]

When someone hits you.

But I usually do it, but No attack to counter, And it takes a little luck, considering it activates on the fourth frame.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It activates frame five, actually. It's very situational though. Check out the MLG Dallas Ken vs PC Chris matches.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think that Marth actually has three different hitboxes on a few of his attacks.

Those attacks being F-smash, Upsmash, D-smash, Uptilt, and Nair. What it seems to me is that these moves have a tipper hitbox, a center hitbox, and a "hilt" hitbox, as you can see noticable differences in all of these locations.

D-smash, Upsmash, and Uptilt have completely different trajectories when you hit with their hilts, while F-smash and nair just suffer from much lower knockback. Uptilt gets even weirder since it's default trajectory is actually dependent on what part of the arc hits the opponent (in relation to Marth's head I think). But you can get the horizontal trajectory consistently by just making sure to hit the opponent with the hilt of Marth's sword (basically, they have to be almost overlapping you.)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, usmash definitely has three hitboxes. The really crappy one is set knockback, actually.

Thanks for the info on the utilt. I'll... find something interesting to do with it.

 

[HowdYdoo]

Cosmo, how the heck are you getting all those sigs? 0.o They. Keep. Changing.

 

[Sybawave]

Does Cactuar actually answer questions?

 

[Mew2King]

im the one who told ken to spam counter vs pc just before MLG Dallas happened >_> he didn't think of that himself I told him that on aim.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think Cactuar quit...

 

[Heart Break Kid]

No he didnt. You just have to be lucky enough to live in the tri state area. But he rarely checks this thread anymore.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh. But. It's his thread =(

 

[Sybawave]

Ok, so what if you told him? He is the one who pulled them off constantly. You didn't sit there and tell him to do it at those exact moments.

And we weren't even talking about how creative Ken was. We were just talking about situations that it can be used in. How many times are you going to try to bash Ken for no apparent reason?

Did it really matter that much to you that you had to go and further damage your reputation?

 

[Milos]

whoa whoa buddy.

who the **** are you?

dont get your panties in a bunch.

and in terms of counter applications.

I like to stand near the edge when fox falco are recovering, and wait for them to regain the ledge, and then most spacies will do a ledgehop dair or something of the sort and you can counter that it's radical.

 

[Ndot]

Yea, countering the ledge hop attacks and ledge attacks are funny. A lot of falcos do ledgehop double laser, so you can counter that as well, cuz you don't really want to get hit with that or you get pwned from there. O_o

 

[Cactuar]

Please don't ask me questions about counter. I never use that move. Ever. Unless it was by accident.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yud rather dtilt or fsmash a firefox/bird?

 

[Sybawave]

Post666 for you XD

And I usually counter spacies during the Ledge Hop Double Laser and UpB

With Falcon you can do it when they do those random Raptor Boosts

And who are you?

 

[IrArby]

Post666 for you XD

And I usually counter spacies during the Ledge Hop Double Laser and UpB

With Falcon you can do it when they do those random Raptor Boosts

And who are you?

As the initial mudslinger, I think its your responsiblity to validate yourself (by saying who the hell you are to b*tch at any pro) not Milos.

 

[Sybawave]

Ever since I joined smashboards, my appreciation for M2k dropped severely because of all his comments agaisnt Ken. This isn't the first time he has said something like that which is what provoked me to responding to him in that manner.

 

[HowdYdoo]

I think everyone has their own opinion about specific players Sybawave, there's not point aruguing about opinions. And you could prove your point by beating M2K in a MM then he can't say you suck...

Cactuar, you didn't answer my question from earlier D=
When recovering from below, is it better to perfect tech your upB and drop down again and attempt another sweetspot (Like what I've seen Ken do a lot in his older games on youtube)/tech OR is it better to wall jump tech it into an immediate bair to grab ledge again? (Which is what Europhoria advised me to do)

 

[IrArby]

Has anyone else just teched it and hit Side B immediately (pretend your a Spacie) and regrabbed the ledge. I've done it once or twice but its a little hard to dupilicate (I didn't exatly practice it very long either).

HowdYdoo, I'd recommend just a regular tech. I mean, wallteching won't give you your 2nd jump back and Bairing won't neccesarily guarantee a hit thus clearing your way to Up B again which is I guess what you were saying. But thats just me so . . .

 

[MarkLoo]

Has anyone else just teched it and hit Side B immediately (pretend your a Spacie) and regrabbed the ledge. I've done it once or twice but its a little hard to dupilicate (I didn't exatly practice it very long either).

HowdYdoo, I'd recommend just a regular tech. I mean, wallteching won't give you your 2nd jump back and Bairing won't neccesarily guarantee a hit thus clearing your way to Up B again which is I guess what you were saying. But thats just me so . . .

The walljump to bair would allow Marth to regrab the ledge without another up b, I think.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The side B thing is only if you have your floaty one left, which I like never do =(

 

[Sybawave]

It's not hard at all lol as soon as you tech hit SideB or else you could die XD BF hates it lol but I have done it the most there and also failed the most there XD

Bair would allowed you to do that but there is no guarantee a hit like he said and it could leave you worse off...If you are good at teching then I would go with the sweetspot again but if not then do whatever makes you feel good XD

 

[IrArby]

The side B thing is only if you have your floaty one left, which I like never do =(

Good point I didn't think of that. Lately if repeatedly I'm ledgestalling and a character comes close to pressure me (trying to bait a ledgehop nair or something) I let go and throw out a float Side B which hits them and allows me to regrab just to throw them off. Unfortunately, the same problem applies here. You've got to have a floaty one left.

 

[HowdYdoo]

When do you use ledgehop uair? I've seen some ppl do it, but I never know when it would be good, and what to use it for so I just use fairs instead. Which makes me a bit more predictable. =/ So anyone want to tell me what's the ideal situations for it?

 

[Sybawave]

I'm lost....what is this floaty business?

And you use Uair when they are near the edge and you think you can combo it in with a Utilt or something to get them OFF the stage...at least that is when I usually do it because otherwise I will use a Nair

I'm not sure if this happens to you but with me, when my friend gets me on the edge he loved to try to hit me off it and will usually go with a Falcon's Dair to do and when he does that I'll use my Uair and he'll go up and be in range for a combo usually.

I also randomly use it to edgeguard (lolwut?) when I think it it will lead into a Dair (kinda like the thing M2k does a lot to, Utilt/Uair > Dair)

 

[IrArby]

Once again, Im not the best Marth but ideally, your opponent should be at a high enough percent that you can land and regrab/Fsmash,Ftilt, or at least tech chase them. If they're percent is low and they tech the hit or CC it you'll probably be at a frame disadvantage.

Oh like Sybawave said, if you edgehog and they have only enough recovery to land on just past edge you cna LH Uair to combo them off. Usually you can LH Nair in those instances too but not if they go to high. Its situational like anything else.

 

[Sybawave]

I hate LH Nairs for that purpose lol don't know why...I will try to use it again but there was probably a reason why I stopped using them that way XD

DON'T DO IT when they are standing on the stage or you will most likely get some form of ***** lol usually I do it right after refreshing my invincibility frames (let go of edge and regrab deal) and then try to attack them with the Uair if they are trying to Dair you off or something

 

[elvenarrow3000]

IrArby, why not ledgehop fair and regrab?

 

[Sybawave]

What are floaties?

 

[Havokbringer]

Floaties are the term used for Light chars like peach jigglypuff zelda etc.

Also I would only Leghop upair if I see something like a Falcon trying to Full jump knee me when I'm recovering from the edge to the stage since he will be approaching from above me.

It can be practically anything really but you have to make sure you can connect with it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

IrArby, why not ledgehop fair and regrab?

Because Ledgehop uair hits higher and sends them more vertically than ledgehop fair (which then can just DI away from you and you won't be able to regrab at most percents. Ledgehop uair also hits behind you while still having that great trajectory. I normally use it to combo into fairs (dash dance and then fair) and get a ken combo ever now and then (or just WoP them off if they're not in a position to Ken combo)

What are floaties?

Floaties are the term used for Light chars like peach jigglypuff zelda etc.

Well, not exactly. Floaty is a term to used for characters that fall slowly. It is essentially the opposite of "fast faller." Most floaty characters are light, but there are some floaty characters that are also pretty heavy.

For instance, Marth and Samus are floaty characters, but I wouldn't really call them light (especially Samus, who is one of the heaviest characters in the game).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

No, he said he used the floaty Dancing Blade on the edge.

 

[Winston]

Haha @ floaty confusion

In this context, elven was talking about how you have one Side B with Marth in the air that actually gives you a bit of height, and the rest just stall.

Also, m2k wasn't even bashing ken, he was just trying to get credit for an innovation where credit is due.

 

[Sybawave]

I know what a floaty is lol and Marth is definitely NOT one lol if that is so then Sheik is more floaty since she does fall slower than Marth.

And weight and fall speed have no correlation like he said

Marth only has one of them in the air? I never really noticed it lol How many do you get in the air? Do you have to land to refresh it or do you just need to grab the edge?

 

[Tero.]

You have to land to refresh it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Actually Sheik falls faster than Marth... I believe falling speed is Falco, Fox, Falcon, Donkey Kong, Roy and Sheik.

I don't get what the big deal is about the Counter against PC Chris. I mean yeah, it was good, but it's not like that's still the thing that kills Falcos.

 

[IrArby]

I was saying if you just keep refreshing your edge invincibility (fall back and regrab), you can use a Side B (assuming it hasn't been used since you last landed and gives you "floaty" properties) to attack your opponent (whose got to be close to the edge) and then regrab the edge without ever losing invinibility frames (or almost never).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Ehhh... still seems risky.