Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Cort]

Battlefield isn't so bad either.

I suggest FD against Peach with Marth. He destroys her there extra hard.

 

[Zone]

I tend to end up juggling peach more so than horizontal Combos with f-airs for some reason. probably because of the way the peaches I play, play? Anyways If I tend to knock them high up with tipper'd up-airs. Wouldn't Green Greens be a good choice Assuming that level isn't banned at the tournament I go to for w/e reason. Then again those little platforms on the sides are annoying because I don't like to get that close to peach >.>; and those side platforms kinda force you to.

 

[Jollies]

You're Marth hanging on the ledge of one of the many flat-based stages against a missile-campy Samus. Ledge hopping an aerial to cut through a missile seems to leave you open to an easy counter-attack, rolling or just getting up from the ledge makes you eat a missile more often than not. Full jumping from the ledge seems to work, but it leaves you above Samus, which is usually a painful situation to be in. What do you think is the best way to recover from the ledge against a missile-campy-type Samus?

 

[Retroking2000]

use the invincibility you gain from the ledge if you react fast enough you can actually get on while you still have invincibility frames. But if that does not work samus has quite some lag while shooting OverB -you can simply waveland on the stage but do it prematurely so you actually airdodge while you waveland or simply you can just airdodge . I usually ledge hop overB on the stage because overB can destroy samus missiles and keep pressing B until i know i am in a safe position / i also ledge counter if i know the samus is at a adequate distance

 

[Teczer0]

Yay cort remembers me..??

lol Cactuar beat me so bad in fox dittos the one thing i thought i could do good in T_T

im going to use tv johns and make you play me again

I want to play vs cort now >_>

 

[Cort]

Come to VLS. It should be amazing.

 

[Teczer0]

Im having money problems but my friend vanz is apparently throwing money at me O_O. So i can go ..... >_>

Ill make sure to play you i remember you anyway since i had to fight your marth to fight PC's luigi at the NYC weekly in friendlies lmao >_>

 

[Cort]

That's great. I'll be looking forward to playing you again.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

What do you do against Pikachu?

....embarrassing, I know.

 

[Scar]

What do you do against Pikachu?

....embarrassing, I know.

What a stupid matchup. Pikachu is such an irritating character. But since I have plenty of experience with Cactuar I know what he's going to say:

If it is wearing a green hat, there is nothing you can do.
If not, then when it does stuff, swing your sword at it.

 

[Cort]

Yesssss I sometimes play brokeback Pikachu. Time for a new secret weapon vs Cactus.

 

[Scar]

Yesssss I sometimes play brokeback Pikachu.

LOL. I'm stealing that immediately.

 

[GOTM]

i think he prefers cedric.

 

[Brookman]

Cactuar, get your *** over here. ?

 

[Winged Messiah]

Is Marths over B any good for dealing with turnips?

 

[FrostByte]

If it is wearing a green hat, there is nothing you can do.

I thought this legend existed only in the UK!

 

[Cort]

Does that have anything to do with Pictish, by chance?

 

[Aiko]

Question for Cactuar (or M2K): Is there a M2K fan club? If so, can I join? If there isn't one, why not?

 

[FrostByte]

Ever since Pikachu (unoficcially) became top of the PAL tier list. Nobody knows exactly how it happened, but 4 prophets have recorded the events and interpreted them in their own different way and these stories will be told for generations to come. Well, 3 prophets actually. Nobody believes John.

 

[Virgilijus]

Cactuar: A few questions.

How do you deal with very quick Falcons? Some enjoy dance dashing quite a bit out of my range and coming in with a quick shffld nair (which if I shield they immediately roll away). Also, how do you edgeguard them at low percents; ledghopped dairs work for me but only if they are coming from pretty far below. I know F-smash is always good when they up-b to just past the edge, but if they sweet spot it misses.

Also, a camping Samus; they constantly lay bombs between us and fire powered missiles constantly. She can out camp me with that and her charge shot. How do you typically approach her? And when she has a completely charged power shot and is just out of my ledge hop f-air range when I'm hanging on the ledge, what is a good way to get up with out being blasted by it (He has the invincibility frame timing down very well)?

 

[t!MmY]

Cactuar, is it true you once took on, and subsequently destroyed, a horde of ninja with nothing but your shoelaces?

 

[Retroking2000]

Ever since Pikachu (unoficcially) became top of the PAL tier list. Nobody knows exactly how it happened, but 4 prophets have recorded the events and interpreted them in their own different way and these stories will be told for generations to come. Well, 3 prophets actually. Nobody believes John.

lol ..

 

[knightpraetor]

cactuar what is your general strategy when fighting jigglypuff. Do you approach on the ground? in the air? bait the jiggs to approach in the air and then try to counter?

what shoulld be running through my mind in this matchup

 

[Winged Messiah]

Hehe, I have that same problem lol. Generally I just try to keep it above me, and Spam utilt xD,

 

[Ryan-K]

cactuar what is your general strategy when fighting jigglypuff. Do you approach on the ground? in the air? bait the jiggs to approach in the air and then try to counter?

what shoulld be running through my mind in this matchup

Ok Marth is kind of like a better jiggs with less jumps lol.

Fairs work amazing on jiggs but jump backwards alot and watch out for *pound*

When shes in front of your shield dont get greedy and try to grab cuz theyll probly jump and rest your extender arm. Also try not to get shield pressured and ***** because marth's shield isn't that great.

Also don't get greedy for kills cuz unlike fox or marth or other characters eventually just fairs and uairs will kill jiggs eventually since she is so light.

Really just remember that marth has air superiority and hes faster on the ground too but just watch out for all the jiggs tricks like duck-> rest or getting behind your shield and pressuring and stuff.

 

[Flarefox]

I've got some questions, particularly against Falcon.

I've been playing around with Marth's defensive game:

Dash away -> forward b, particularly against falcon. He does have time to roll away, but do you see any potential here, even as an interruption? Nevertheless, this seems to be a lot more effective on falcon than against spacies, since he doesn't accelerate as fast when falling. Often, I can interrupt them, and they'll shield, after which I quickly grab.

Wavedash back -> neutral swipe / uptilt, particularly against falcon. The problem I'm having is when Falcon overshoots with nair, I end up getting hit anyways. The one counter that I've found against this is wavedash back to shield grab, which works if he doesn't jab me.

What do you think about Marth's fair combos vs. Falcon. I've been able to use this, and finish off with fair offstage chases or a fsmash. What are some ways that Falcon can react to this?

Are there any good specific % ranges where upthrow will guarantee a tipper against falcon? I'm having trouble implementing Marth's upthrow vs. Falcon since he is heavier than spacies, making the upthrow laggier for marth.

I'm also starting to consider playing a spacing game against falcon's approach. It's always good to be right outside his grab range with fairs, but the approach game itself isn't so simple. Falcon's ground and dash dance game is too good. I was thinking about shorthopping backward, and I'm starting to love this idea more and more, since it has huge defensive abilities and combo potential with fair, as well as double jump possibilities going on. What do you think?

Sorry for all of my questions, but I've done a lot of thinking about this matchup over the past few weeks, and there are a lot of specifics that I'm still unsure about. I'm tech chasing falcon a lot, and pushing him to the edge as much as possible, but there are so many things that I'm trying to learn to abuse. :D

Cactuar!!!

 

[Retroking2000]

haha .. whats the best method when you are in shield pressure against a jab to fair sheik

 

[Darthmike]

Why is it so epic killing someone by spiking them down with marth's downsmash?

 

[Pakman]

Oh. Girl. (Accidental Post)

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar, I was wondering if you knew any universal combos other than the Ken combo.

I'm looking to add a little more variety to my game before I play in my first tourney next week.

Thx in advance =).

Azen combo = any individual seemingly random fsmash that happens to tipper.

Generic fair combos

Cactuar combos (Things I do often. No one else should do these in tournament as they are purely for my amusement despite them often killing my opponents.):

Upthrow to upsmash vs fast fallers that try to slight DI. Follow with whatever you want really.

Repeated fbs. Mew2king made a thread about this. (AKA, 1000(+) Needles combo)


Marth isn't really all about "set" combos though. His game is just generic fairs or uairs and such. Learn the spacing for them, it's really all you need.

just wondering what are good stages for a marth to pick against peach. Does he have any set counterpick stages or any odd ones (like raibow cruise or something crazy like that) or is there nowhere where marth has some sort of stage advantage. I feel like Yoshi's story (although traditionally a popular marth stage against a variety of characters) seems very weak against peach despite the small walls... am I right to think this or am I of the ******** variety.

I pick any neutral stage except Dreamland. Marth is generally not good on counterpick stages. I actually don't like Yoshi's regardless of what character I am playing against. Luckily, most players ban Yoshi's vs me simply because I play Marth and do not realize they are actually doing me a favor. It's a good stage for vs Peach though, I just wouldn't use it.

so cactuar...i remember vaguely you saying that you liked the upsmash? where and for what? the other day i was trying to find the percentage to use it in marth's chaingrab on falco..but to hvae it kill requires too high percentage....i can use it in place of the uptilt at some percents...but is it easier or harder to DI?

actually in friendlies my friend was so shocked at the upsmash that he stood there and took upsmash to upsmash to upsmash without jumping out..he just sorta let go of the controller...it was like...wth..upsmash? but yes, i guess i could use it to kill floaties but there is no good setup i feel guess i can use it after an upair..but it's rather hard to get the spacing right

Don't use upsmash lol. It's really just something I do as a joke. It's usefulness to players actually trying to get better is nonexistent. When I actually care about matches, I do real cgs.

That said, my favorite setup for upsmash killing people who don't DI is on platform stages. Grab them under the middle platform when they are at like 110%-ish, upthrow them, double jump follow them up to the top platform and weak hit uair them, if they slight DI it a little bit or don't DI it at all, you can run under them and charge upsmash. Tip it and they will die.

Best way to DI cpt falcon Fair and Sheik fair ??

Cort explained it. Be careful about about DIing it up as Falcon can knee to knee to knee you. And despite that looking awesome, it doesn't feel nice.

What are your main choices for getting rid of Nana?; she completely throws off my grab game by letting Popo forward or down smash me if I accidentally grab her.

I up my spacing game a lot vs ICs. General rules of thumb for me are: Don't grab unless it's a single IC. Don't use smashes unless I have them in the air. Spam fair to dtilt, or float away nair to dtilt or another aerial, or run away bair (don't fast fall it so you turn around and autocancel) to dtilt. The instant anything hits them, start chaining things on them.

Hi Cactuar the first time I saw you was when you just signed up for doubles at MLG NY at the expo and was complaining about TopeGay backing out on you as partner (whatever happened to him anyway)

I saw you again at Smashtality 3 in which you were the cause of controversy and splitsies between Chu and M2K and I was Chu's go to guy having seen the whole thing plus "Don't be an idiot, idiot"

At Smashacre my friend and I challenged you and M2K to a MM for fun and you guys said something but we didn't really hear. Did you guys blow us off and weren't worth your time or did you say something like later? I understand M2K was feeling sluggish at the time possibly lacking confidence still recovering from Evo World and needed extra practice.

Thank you for your time and your improvement is inspirational. You and Forward are God Tier in smasher humor.

It was "Don't be a dumb@ss, dumb@ss."

I was trying to warm up M2K. He wasn't playing very well and he wanted to just play me for a while. I would have been happy to do it later.

How do you approach Peach and what stages do you prefer counter-picking her on?

How do you normally kill Peach? Is it mostly by edgeguards or by racking up damage then using up B or forward B to uptilt or something else?

Also, what are some main things I should be watching out for? For example, if a Peach is on a platform she generally downsmashes. Are there certain things Peach usually does against Marth?

When she's grabbing the ledge, how do you normally edgeguard her?

I camp in their face until they do something. Generally about 1 1/2 sword distances away. I counterpick any neutral except DL.

I normally kill Peaches with fthrow to wdfsmash. I've never really had it not work assuming my timing is decent. It's pretty much how I beat every Peach player ever.

If you are doing my spacing, just watch for them to either dash attack or pull a turnip. If they dash attack, retreat and punish the lag. If they pull a turnip, dash in and punish them. If they start doing float cancel stuff, use your sword.

If Peach is on a platform that isn't FoD while the platform is low, walk under her. Then do stuff. Just don't jump into her.

Well yeah, I was just giving an example. Of course for Marth it isn't a problem, but other characters have to wait for it.

Up tilt is good and all, but how does he set up for it? It's not like he can just wavedash into her and uptilt.

You would be surprised at how easy it is to wd in and uptilt.

Cactuar, do you have any signature combos? Chillin has the Chillin combo, Ken has the Ken Combo, and Hylian has the Hyli. What have you to offer the community?

Stop using bait questions.

Any use of upsmash = cactuar combo.

I know this may seem like a newbie question but when you say Backthrow fox off the edge, and you manage a reverse poke to send him down a bit. He starts off fox fire. The best part to hit him with of your sword is, Toward your body more, or the tip? Or maybe try and positiont yourself a bit higher. Because I been accidently knocking them up sometimes.


btw I mean running off and doing a f-air.

Dthrow, not back throw.

Middle of the sword. For less advanced player or Husband, it's easier to just stand on the stage and fsmash the recovery. Not that that's a bad thing.

Thanks, and Is it better to jab or f-tilt if falco is trying to illusion pass you on the stage? I see alot more people jabbing now, but I'm still proned to Forward tilt.

Edit: and if Jab is better why? Simple because it's quicker and safer?

I jab. It set's them up in a very disadvantageous position and you are less likely to be punished if you miss. It's also faster than ftilt in coming out so the timing is a bit easier.

Cactuar, do you ever play Roy?

Yes. Blue Roy.

I play Marth. If I wish to play Roy on the side (as my noob destroyer) what basics change overall?!

Completely different combo game, much more reliant on dtilting and punishing techs, dodges, and rolls. Movement is not quite as fluid as Marth.

Ledgehopped backward second jump to waveland: uberpro?

Meh. Short hop bair to double jump upair to waveland edgehog = uberpro.

I am recently playing more Marth, often because I can be lazy and do well, but mostly because I want to improve many aspects of my game, including spacing, grab combos, edge guarding, and follow-ups.

I'm wondering where and when you apply your over b combos, and also, what are some of your more common follow ups to things like fairs or d-tilts. Also, is Marth's Jab -> Grab viable?

I don't really use over b combos. I follow up fair with fair or uair until they are near the edge, at which point I forward smash. Or something to continue pushing them off stage. Jab -> is not useful with Marth.

I'm considering picking up an alt for dealing with sheik and campy levels like Jungle Japes, any suggestions? I gave Fox a whirl, but I didn't enjoy playing as him.

I have a Fox for counterpick stages. If you don't like Fox, I'd just suggest winning the first match in a set or learning the stages with Marth. I can do well on the counterpick stages with Marth, it's just easier with Fox.

I've got some questions, particularly against Falcon.

I've been playing around with Marth's defensive game:

Dash away -> forward b, particularly against falcon. He does have time to roll away, but do you see any potential here, even as an interruption? Nevertheless, this seems to be a lot more effective on falcon than against spacies, since he doesn't accelerate as fast when falling. Often, I can interrupt them, and they'll shield, after which I quickly grab.

Wavedash back -> neutral swipe / uptilt, particularly against falcon. The problem I'm having is when Falcon overshoots with nair, I end up getting hit anyways. The one counter that I've found against this is wavedash back to shield grab, which works if he doesn't jab me.

What do you think about Marth's fair combos vs. Falcon. I've been able to use this, and finish off with fair offstage chases or a fsmash. What are some ways that Falcon can react to this?

Are there any good specific % ranges where upthrow will guarantee a tipper against falcon? I'm having trouble implementing Marth's upthrow vs. Falcon since he is heavier than spacies, making the upthrow laggier for marth.

I'm also starting to consider playing a spacing game against falcon's approach. It's always good to be right outside his grab range with fairs, but the approach game itself isn't so simple. Falcon's ground and dash dance game is too good. I was thinking about shorthopping backward, and I'm starting to love this idea more and more, since it has huge defensive abilities and combo potential with fair, as well as double jump possibilities going on. What do you think?

Sorry for all of my questions, but I've done a lot of thinking about this matchup over the past few weeks, and there are a lot of specifics that I'm still unsure about. I'm tech chasing falcon a lot, and pushing him to the edge as much as possible, but there are so many things that I'm trying to learn to abuse. :D

I'm hesitant to use fb setups vs good Falcon players as the metagame has evolved to largely incorporate CC into everyone's style. FB also gets shield grabbed easily. I generally just rely on getting that first grab then tech chasing or comboing the falcon to death.

If you know they are going to nair at you, try and WD back and CC. Wait for the nair to hit you and grab out of your CC. Knowing the variety of possible mix ups that your characters can do is key here. Easy way to do this is to hold down, then when they come and hit you, hold shield and start spamming A while holding down and shield the whole time.

Fair combos only really get started at mid percents on Falcon. They are useful, but learning where uairs would be more useful in the combo for continuation is important. Just play around with it and you will find things you are comfortable with. Falcon can only really react with DI as his aerials are too slow to interrupt in most cases.

I usually upthrow to aerials and such, but back when M2K was showing me things like this, I think he went for it around 60%.

My spacing game vs Falcon is really just to pressure him into doing something, so I generally stand about two fair lengths away until they do something, at which point I react and force grabs. I rely pretty heavily on grabs vs falcon as it is very easy to tech chase him with a variety of punishments. As I have said before though, develop your own style. Don't force another person's playstyle on your own as it will often times just stall your own development as a player. Whatever feels comfortable to you is what you should work on, to the point where, even if it didn't work at one point, you adjust it so that it works for you. Uniqueness is a huge advantage in a scene where there are so many generic styles that everyone knows how to play against and destroy.

ya i'm curious about upthrow to fsmash as well on di away..it's hard though cause of the lag..i'm guessing there is some time in the 40-50s where it works?

Pretty sure it's around 60-75%ish. If they get used to jumping out immediately, punish their wasted double jump.

What stages do you counter pick against a Peach if they striked Yoshi's Story???

Any of the other neutrals except DL.

I tend to end up juggling peach more so than horizontal Combos with f-airs for some reason. probably because of the way the peaches I play, play? Anyways If I tend to knock them high up with tipper'd up-airs. Wouldn't Green Greens be a good choice Assuming that level isn't banned at the tournament I go to for w/e reason. Then again those little platforms on the sides are annoying because I don't like to get that close to peach >.>; and those side platforms kinda force you to.

I rely on fthrow wdfsmash to kill Peaches, and Green Greens is not good for that due to it's small ground spaces. If you are having a problem kill peaches at mid percent that badly, then go for it. Best way to learn if something works or not is to try it.

You're Marth hanging on the ledge of one of the many flat-based stages against a missile-campy Samus. Ledge hopping an aerial to cut through a missile seems to leave you open to an easy counter-attack, rolling or just getting up from the ledge makes you eat a missile more often than not. Full jumping from the ledge seems to work, but it leaves you above Samus, which is usually a painful situation to be in. What do you think is the best way to recover from the ledge against a missile-campy-type Samus?

I only really use normal stand up, jump fair or nair, or ledge wd vs Samus. Just pay attention to the missile timings.

What do you do against Pikachu?

....embarrassing, I know.

Spam fair and grabs. Matchups are really something you just have to play and get experience in. Most of Marth's strats will ultimately be fair and grab abuse.

Cactuar, get your *** over here. ?

Okaaaaaay.

Is Marths over B any good for dealing with turnips?

No. Avoid turnips or fair/nair through them. Don't catch them unless the Peach is far away and not approaching after throwing them. Marth throws like a little girl, so his use of turnips isn't really advantageous in any way.

Question for Cactuar (or M2K): Is there a M2K fan club? If so, can I join? If there isn't one, why not?

Yes. Mew2King is in it. No one else may join.

Cactuar, is it true you once took on, and subsequently destroyed, a horde of ninja with nothing but your shoelaces?

No. It was with shoelaces and a tube of toothpaste (don't ask).

cactuar what is your general strategy when fighting jigglypuff. Do you approach on the ground? in the air? bait the jiggs to approach in the air and then try to counter?

what shoulld be running through my mind in this matchup

I mix up my orientation often. Variety is important in any matchup. Bait into punishment is great against any character.

*spacing spacing spacing spacing spacing look for tipper opportunities spacing spacing look for grab to throw tipper spacing spacing spacing*

haha .. whats the best method when you are in shield pressure against a jab to fair sheik

If you are shielding? I would wavedash back or CC grab them. Being in shield close range is dangerous vs sheik.

Why is it so epic killing someone by spiking them down with marth's downsmash?

Do you mean dair?

Killing Marth in ditto at 70% on FD with downsmash is pretty epic. (That works.)

Oh. Girl. (Accidental Post)

True.

 

[Betrayed]

Been playing Roy a bit lately (Red > Blue btw) and it's helped my Marth out more than playing anybody else ever did. The fact that I need to be so careful with Roy in my approach and move decisions helps my Marth overall. Red still > Blue though.

Anyways, an actual QUESTION. My friend (a bit better than me I'd say) usually changes characters every other match. He'll usually win the first, and then I'll come back with something to win the second. My issue is that... I can usually win if he's being aggressive, but the match gets a lot harder when he goes into a defensive style as well.

QUESTION HERE FOR LAZY PEOPLE

Details aside, as a general rule of thumb, is it better to wait for somebody to get impaitence with a defense game and come at you or change into an aggressive-type game instead? I'll normally keep my distance and fair / jab (slashjab>>) any projectiles until they get impaitent and run in.

Of course it all depends on the character I'm facing and I'll end up learning what works best against who in the situation but... yeah, as a rule of thumb.

 

[Winged Messiah]

Erm, well, even though this is in the Marth forums, the thread tells you to ask stuff about... stuff, so imna ask a Fox question xD.

What the hell can you do against a Yoshi? Uthrow to Uair doesn't work well, as Yoshi can nair out really fast. And that darn invincible second jump stops most of my shinespike attempts. Usually I nair or drill -> shine then dash backkwards and to a RSHDL. Don't know if its the best thing to do really. Any tips?

And just so it IS a legitamate post, how would yoy go about approaching in Marth Dittos?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Cactuar who is more bishounen out of the two of us and why?

Do we even classify as bishounen?

I have never thought of myself as such, but lately more and more smashers are calling me out on my long eyelashes and my large eyes, whatever the hell that means.

Should I be offended by this, since I always considered myself more traditionally handsome then bishounen?

 

[Retroking2000]

wow sorry to say this thread is trashing Marth Q/A

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's cuz alot of it is BS and Charles is abusing star power. lol.

 

[Retroking2000]

ROFL_ cant argue with that

 

[Vincent Vega]

Yo Cort/Cactuar, what's the best % to fsmash a Sheik after you tech chase with down throw for a while? And do you think it's best to fsmash, or just reverse up-b?

 

[Cort]

It's best whenever you think you can eliminate as many possibilities with the dthrow as possible, such as dthrowing them towards the ledge (where the can only tech in place, tech towards the ledge which doesn't move them anywhere, or tech towards you) So, fsmashing the ledge covers 2 tech options.

Sheik's tech roll is godly though, it's sad. Reverse up b is just flashy, it's not nearly as effective as an fsmash, especially a tipper, unless you catch people off guard and they DI horribly.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Ya my main problem right now is that godly tech heh. That's why I asked about the fsmash or up b. Usually he can just spot dodge/whatever to get away from the fsmash, the upb seems to land slightly more often. But ya, I'll just work on the timing. Thanks. ^_^

 

[Cort]

Don't bother with up b unless it's guaranteed, for instance if they dash attack your shield and are at a high %, if you can combo into it with a fair to rejump reverse up b, or if you're feeling creative and want to gimp their recovery by running off the stage and reverse up b'ing them. If you reverse up b and miss, you're going to get punished. Hard. Sheik's grab combos are something you've gotta watch out for, and this matchup is more about not getting grabbed than anything else.

fsmash is far far more effective and safe. Just play safe and gay.