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Celestial Archives - Video Archive and Critique Thread

Stealth Raptor

Stealth Raptor

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NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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I'll start with the Olimar match and touch on a few things. I may critique the rest of them another time.

Olimar Specific Tips:
  • You really shouldn't ignore the pikmin on you. The question is when to remove them. I normally don't try to remove them until he commits 2 or more pikmin on me. N-air is the optimal choice here. It won't remove them all most of the time, but it gets some off and reduces the damage. U-tilt will remove and kill them (except blue, 14% required, and purple, 15% required) but the start-up takes so long.
  • The window to attack Olimar is when he jumps to throw his pikmin and when he plucks. What matters is how you can trigger these windows. Having pikmin on you or past you (say you air dodge into z-air) means he has less pikmin on hand. When you start to kill pikmin on top of this, he's going to pluck. Perfect chance to pop him up with z-air. You shouldn't put too much emphasis on the pikmin on you, but you can't ignore it either. And again, u-tilt is an option, but you may miss out on the window. Personal preference though.
  • The damage you rack up is all going to come from follow-ups to z-air if the Olimar isn't playing aggressive yet. It's great to tipper z-air, but it's also better to close-range z-air given you don't mess up on optimizing that window and shooting him up. From there, it's standard landing lag punishment and reads.
  • The only time you start using moves other than your standard camping tools are when he gets frustrated and starts to approach. From here, you alternate between the biggest disjoints in your arsenal. Standing/dash grab, pivot grabs, d-tilt and d-air. Space d-air from as far away horizontally as possible. The shield stun and shield push makes you safe from u-smash OoS (except the yellow! Watch out for the yellow!)
  • D-tilt and even f-air can be used if he starts being aggressive. You have to make sure to really use the tip of your hitboxes and observe the order of his pikmin line-up and his switches from grabs to smashes.
  • All of these moves pop Olimar into the air and you into a favorable position. The most important thing to note is that you really shouldn't ever approach Olimar (with anything outside of z-air). He should eventually run to you. Even while attempting to use d-air, retreat as you land and shield/pivot grabs won't land. (Shield grab will if they power shield, but if you're good with tempo, this will rarely occur.)

Specific Player Tips:
  • You looked comfortable with your aerials, but I saw a lot of missed punishes. This is mostly because you were out of position. Sometimes because you were in the air, sometimes because you were on the ground but just not close enough. When you re-watch the replay, you'll notice this.
  • Your playstyle needs more focus on analyzing opponents options. While reading rolls (you punished several of them, either intentionally or not with d-smash) is alright, getting there before he has the option to roll is better. After you z-air him (this isn't Olimar specific), is he going to double jump? Retaliate with an aerial/special? Air dodge? You have to be comfortable with knowing what options punish what in these scenarios. And you can't be late with the punish.

  • A perfect example is 25 seconds in. Z-air pops him, but you weren't in position to punish and the d-smash was late (still lands, but not because you hit his landing lag.) If you had landed the d-smash, grab, whatever, you would have been able to continually reset the position in your favor and rack up damage. You could do as much as 6% (a typical d-throw to reset) to as much as a 0-death depending on your reads.
  • For example, this is what I would have done in your situation. First, I would have ran forward after seeing him double jump and position myself to d-smash when he air dodges down. Second, I would expect him to try to land via air dodging again (he's not too high from the ground and he doesn't want to waste a double jump) so I'd dash grab/pivot grab him. D-throw is my favorite throw to reset a situation in my favor unless I'm really close to the edge of the stage, in which case I throw him to that direction. Third, I'd expect him to then double jump since the first two punishes involved ground moves. I don't have to fully commit to this read. Short hop u-air (it will go through whistle and frame trap air dodge into a n-air) will work as long as I stay below him as I jump. If he double jumps and is farther away, I can commit to a read like f-air or z-air.

    All this totaled to around +30%. Get the picture?
  • Even if you miss the punish (mistakes happen) you can't frantically start attacking him. If you can't reset the position in your favor, reset to neutral. I don't want to see you rashly committing to grabs or dash attacks like that again.

That's enough for now. If you post up another Olimar vid, I'll critique some more on stuff I didn't cover. Thanks for reminding me to do this on AIM. I'll critique a MK video tomorrow.
 
quiKsilverItaly

quiKsilverItaly

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NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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Here's another critique for you Stealth. Going over the Marth vid. If the advice doesn't apply because it's a friendly, then overlook it.

Marth Specific Tips:
  • Switch the tempo between homing/super and z-airs. Use missiles to limit options (you're not trying to connect with them, you're trying to make him go where you want to go.) Use z-airs because you know it's going to connect.
  • Gimping needs to be improved. Forcing Marth onto the stage guarantees a free hit, ranging from d-air (to give time to charge CS), weak-spot n-air into a smash, or b-air to knock him off-stage and reset the situation in your favor. First priority is grabbing the ledge and using z-air to reconnect for invincibility frames. Conditioning him to stall off-stage with dancing blade opens a window for spiking later.
  • If you shield dancing blade, it's a free punish, depending on how he ends it. DB3 down has decent shield stun however, so your quickest OoS option is up+b (5 frames. This is Samus' number one fastest OoS option.) Everything else can be punished with d-smash usually.

Specific Player Tips:
  • LANDING LAG LANDING LAG LANDING LAG! I can't emphasize this enough. You aren't there when the opening is so you obviously can't capitalize. Get out of auto-pilot. Know when to stop z-airing and punish the landing.
  • Another auto-pilot habit I'm seeing from you is follow-ups to missiles with dash attack. They didn't land at all the entire match. The entire match. If you're attempting to condition, you've got the definition of conditioning wrong. You shouldn't have to suffer while implementing habits. You should know they're going to shield and dash grab. If they do end up switching up, then switch into your spot dodge punishment options. But you shouldn't be running into shield.
  • When should you use Samus' dash attack? If you watch the video, you'll find that it's landing not when a missile is out, but when there are no missiles out. This gives the Marth player a feeling of safety. He can jump without fearing a projectile. You utilize this false notion of safety by dash attacking through. Jumping is 5 frames. Know your windows. There are only three times that Samus should use dash attack.
    1. Punishing an air dodge/landing lag. (4 frame window or higher, depending on timing of air dodge)
    2. Punishing a jump animation. (5 frame window)
    3. Buffering out of a landing.

    On that last notion of landing, dash attack is being used as a semi-safe mind game. Presuming that they missed their chance of punishing your landing lag, you get both the opportunity to attack them with a high speed move with relatively safe knockback, and the opportunity to move into a safer position in case the attack whiffs/hits shield. Those goes into the idea of playing safe.

    Note that if you are close enough that linking z-air to dash attack is possible, you have got to understand that it also meant you were probably close enough to link a safer or more damaging move. That is why it isn't listed here.

  • Other examples of playing safe include using different punishment options. Not sure if using d-smash will land? Retreating/Rising n-air instead. D-smash is 7 frames. Rising n-air is the same; OoS, n-air is faster due to no shield drop. Not sure if dash attack will land? Hit with the very end of f-tilt instead. Start learning ways to approach and punish without committing and you'll start to see openings more and take less damage.

Last thing I want to mention. I pointed out a lot of frame data here. The frame data is not important. The framework behind the data is. Regardless of how big or small the opening is, you need to understand that it is there, that every character has it, and that you need to learn both how to punish it and how to minimize the openings in your own playstyle.
 
Serris

Serris

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Because KillerJawz has made a permanent exit and can no longer update the thread, I'll be transferring ownership of the thread to someone else as the Samus boards see fit. So, get to picking the new owner. :bee:
 
IsmaR

IsmaR

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I'm fine with anyone, or even doing it myself as I have the nearest post after KJ/manage the social thread anyway.

..On second thought, Composer all the way.
 
Serris

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I'd prefer a bit more input before I go ahead and give someone the thread. If there aren't any more responses within the next couple of days, I'll hand the thread over to Composer.
 
LanceStern

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I would choose either one.

And NO-ID what made you start getting involved in tournies again? I remember you taking a long break, but now that you've come back you have been doing work everywhere. Making all-Samus look good
 
NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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Apologize for the double post, but I change my mind. Again.

Let's vote on who owns this thread. I actually had an idea in mind that would require me owning it. xD
 
NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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I watch, analyze and critique different MUs outside of Samus, then relate them to Samus and how I can utilize those strategies with her moveset.
 
NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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Mostly control over title. Asking moderator (Serris or others I know) to embed video of my choice. May want to reconstruct OP too.

In retrospect, it can be done even if I don't own the thread. But I like control over projects I do.

As a counter-argument, I prioritize school over this. If coursework requires my attention, this smash project dies out and someone would have to take over. So take that as you will.
 
DtJ Composer

DtJ Composer

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Alright, that's understandable.

If possible I think it would be best to give me (or someone else who checks the boards a lot) OP and give NoID the second post, so that his post is still on the front page and easy to see, and so if school work bogs him down then someone can still keep the video links and stuff updated.

If that's a lot of work that isn't possible then just go ahead and give him the OP.
 
Serris

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I'm not even sure if I can do that. I'd have to check with the powers that be. NO-ID, if you're not sure if you can keep yourself committed to this, I'm inclined to give the thread to Composer. However, I like your idea of featuring an official critique of sorts. I'll make a final decision tomorrow.
 
DtJ Composer

DtJ Composer

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Hilt's done it for me before, I can't remember if it was pre or post super mod though.

basically it just involves moving an old post into the new thread. If I can talk to Hilt or Bio later tonight I'll see what they can do.
 
Serris

Serris

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I was referring to the first/second post nonsense. I know I can't embed YouTube videos, but I can move earlier posts to transfer thread ownership.
 
Serris

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The thread now belongs to NO-ID. If you want a second post, let me know and I'll dig something up.
 
NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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Not even sure what to make of that. I can't really critique a video where you clearly were the better player. I can't critique your offensive choices if they worked. I could tell the Peach player how to get out of them, and you probably could tell that player as well, and maybe the increase in the Peach skill level can help you progress and learn new tactics.

But you don't want to run into tournament to find out some of your options aren't as good as you think they are. And I can't prove to you they aren't that good... if they worked in the video you provided. Make sense?

As for everyone else, videos like the one Kurei has provided are good to study in order to learn what Samus CAN do and what is POSSIBLE. Distinguish between possible and probable and you'll be better off when the opportunity comes mid-match where the opening to pull off crazy things occurs.

Kurei, if you are in Boston, why don't you go to DNA/Hall of Gaming? I'd like to see how you do in tournament.
 
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