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Character Difficutly Scale

LP4Life666

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
427
Great contribution, Kalm. I know what it's like to put hard work into a thread and get many thanks for your work. Keep it up! :chuckle:

Edit: Though sometimes the moderators don't even give a **** and end up locking your thread just for the hell of it. *grumble grumble*
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
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I can't respect this chart as it clearly under ranks a lot of characters while at the same time overrate characters total potential such as Snake. It shows that this is clearly based on your owner thoughts on characters you have not used much or never fought or seen fought on a higher level. Theses numbers are so off on so many characters that I just can't stop from getting mad at it.

Example A: I don’t even main Toon Link but I have watch and played some great players and I know his unknown total potential will be much higher then Snakes. Just because of his camping options, combos, and flexibly in style allow him to have more areas to improve in. This should be a no brainier but you have him a good two spots lower then Snake!

How can you suggest this chart to anyone when it’s soo wrong or incomplete?

Edit: I felt like I should edit my post a bit as it sounds like I was flaming you...Which I might of been doing but the idea behind this isn't a bad one and even if I think it's really really wrong I shouldn't attack you.
 

Kalm

Smash Journeyman
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Thanks LP4. I'm trying to contribute something that's actually unique to the forum.
Aren't you the guy who rated the character forums?

@Tristan
Yep, a lot of this is wrong, and a lot of this info can be very biased.
That's why the first thing my OP says is WORK IN PROGRESS in all caps.

I'm trying to make this more accurate with info from you guys out there that main characters I don't and have seen more of how they're used than me.

Anyways, since you claim to see so many things wrong with it then by all means give me a heads up. I want to address you opinion on Toon Link but I'm thrown off by your wording. This isn't a thread talking about who has more potential, it's supposed to be a scale to show how DIFFICULT it is to REACH character's MAXIMUM potential.
That's why I have MK on a low score and Ganondorf on a high score. I had an update to do anyways, Snake is a point lower.

I can go on to explain this, or you can reread the OP again. However I know it's likely that you know what this thread's about and just worded your opinion weird. I'll wait for your reply.
 

Tristan_win

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My bad, let me go into detail.

What I was originally trying to say was that Toon link has more things to improve upon before reaching “Maximum potential” then Snake, which would make him naturally harder to master. Don’t get me wrong Snake is amazing in the hands of a good player but that’s just it the player has to be good.

What your trying to do here is list how much of the characters potential is used when someone first picks up a character for the first time without knowing anything about their technical, combos, or ability to deal damage and someone who knows and can do everything very well(that‘s the very vague way of putting it).

When Snakes mains go to practice mode they have very few things to work on because of Snakes extremely poor ability to combo and for the lack of technical things they have to work upon. Outside of Cooking, Snakedashing, learning exploding radius, c4 recovery, and infinite grab on the edge the only thing they have left really is working on spacing (Snake may have more technical abilities I‘m not aware of but from all the snakes I‘ve fought this is pretty much all they ever use). However because of Snake’s lack of good aerials approaches he really only need to work on ground spacing. Everything else is all user experience and mind games.

Needless to say many people have already master or nearly master Snake current meta game by now because of how few things they can really work on. What separates theses people from tournament winners is experience and technique or style.

Now this isn’t the case for all characters in Brawl one of the better examples would be Toon Link.

...I would continue but I need to go to sleep so I’m going to finish this on that note.

Feel free to question what I just said. Night
 

Kalm

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I think that's enough to get the point across.

Okay lesse. I'll try to list what I know about what has to be mastered for each character.

Toony... Spacing for 3 aerials. The spacing for Bair sometimes the toughest and most important. Boomerang Angling. Bow Cancling and double arrows(very tough). Setting bombs on the ground, bombplanting, bomb counters. I guess Zair poking but I haven't seen it to be useful so far. Zair for Ledge Hogging. Use of Dair spike.
Now we've got Bair combos, possibly leading to the Dair spike. Timing for combos based on Boomerang return on bomb explosions. After that I can only think of projectile usage while recovering and edge camping.

Snake... Cooking, dropping grenades, grenade counters. Both forms of Snakedashing. C4 usage and C4 counter, C4 recovery. Spacing for Utilt(hahaha jk). Infiinte grabs and grab mindgames, such as rolling into stuff or shielding for attack. Spacing and usage of his recovery.

Well that's about all I can name off the top of my head. There's certainly a lot more for Toony to know about. It looks like the difficulty of learning those is higher too. Do you have anything to add?
 

Crackle

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Sonic probably has the largest learning curve in the game, IMO.
To play well, it should be a 9 or 10. He's not a bad character, you just need to be thinking about 12 moves ahead all the time.
I'm sure the number 12 isn't exaggeration.
 

Kalm

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Hmmm me neither. I've already got a couple more changes in mind since I've started listing AT's for each character to myself. I'll be updating things again before too long, I want to give Tristan a chance to say anything else before I do though since he brought up some really good points.
 

MajinNecro69

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
657
I don't agree with Ice Climbers being among the ones you assigned a 10. Also, Ganondorf, when played casually, can be played similarly to Captain Falcon, so maybe something lower for that?
 

viparagon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
851
Location
nashua. nh
Yoshi is up higher for sure

Yoshi is one of the only characters I can't use for ****. ( I play around, Like Azen, Except i'm 1 million times worse)
 

Pyroloserkid

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
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3,588
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Ontario
IC's are definitely not a "10" on the competitive scale.

Their Chain Grabs can be mastered in under an hour. Now if this were a Wifi list then MAYBE IC's would be 10 considering their chain grabs are hard to do with the slightest lag, but other than that their chain grabs are incredibly easy to learn and use.

Def. not a 10.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
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Apr 3, 2008
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IC's are definitely not a "10" on the competitive scale.

Their Chain Grabs can be mastered in under an hour. Now if this were a Wifi list then MAYBE IC's would be 10 considering their chain grabs are hard to do with the slightest lag, but other than that their chain grabs are incredibly easy to learn and use.

Def. not a 10.
Not that I think IC's are a 10, but remember desynch usage to learn, too.

--------

EDIT:

I just realized/recognized this thread.

wow, what a bump.
 

Kalm

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IC's are definitely not a "10" on the competitive scale.

Their Chain Grabs can be mastered in under an hour. Now if this were a Wifi list then MAYBE IC's would be 10 considering their chain grabs are hard to do with the slightest lag, but other than that their chain grabs are incredibly easy to learn and use.

Def. not a 10.

They are incredibly easy to learn and use, on a training dummy.

Not really, I wanted to sound sarcastic but in comparison to most of the stuff on the game, no it really is still pretty hard to master a lot of the techniques even on training dummies. Then, when you fight against skilled opponents and you have to actually begin using setups, desyncing, and terrain adpaptation, it becomes very hard. At least, some people may not want to consider it very hard, but let's compare to everything else in the game. What' can't be learned in under an hour?
 

kainsword

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 1, 2007
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204
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LaPorte
Why does Yoshi have a 3 for easiness to play? It's NOT very easy to master Egg Toss accuracy. Especially since you have to factor that you have to master Egg Toss for opponents that are behind you.
 

Mmac

Smash Lord
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Apr 8, 2008
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Why does Yoshi have a 3 for easiness to play? It's NOT very easy to master Egg Toss accuracy. Especially since you have to factor that you have to master Egg Toss for opponents that are behind you.
You can't throw Egg's behind Yoshi anymore, you're thinking of Melee, unless you're talking about Egg Toss Sliding. Though it is true that his Egg Toss need understanding and aim.

However what makes Yoshi hard to understand is his Recovery. His Double Jump needs to be treated like a "3rd" Jump in a sense that if he gets intercepted when he already used it, he is basically screwed. You need to know when to use UpB's, and when to Double Jump

Plus you also gotta factor in that Tap Jump + Yoshi = FAIL!
 

kainsword

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
204
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LaPorte
You can't throw Egg's behind Yoshi anymore, you're thinking of Melee, unless you're talking about Egg Toss Sliding. Though it is true that his Egg Toss need understanding and aim.

However what makes Yoshi hard to understand is his Recovery. His Double Jump needs to be treated like a "3rd" Jump in a sense that if he gets intercepted when he already used it, he is basically screwed. You need to know when to use UpB's, and when to Double Jump

Plus you also gotta factor in that Tap Jump + Yoshi = FAIL!
Which is exactly why Yoshi is NOT easier to pick than Luigi (4).
 
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