Character Value on Team Brawls

[A2ZOMG]

Basically discuss a tier list for characters used in 2 vs 2 teams.

The topics I have seen in this forum concerning teams all ask what is the best combination of characters in teams. Which is probably something like G&W + Zelda in case you're wondering.

Since I've heard BS about low tier characters somehow being not the worst characters on teams, I just thought a topic like this would help clear things up lol.

Something to note: grabs are less effective in teams when another team member can break up throws in progress. Things like Metaknight's 12% D-throw might leave him really vulnerable in a team Brawl. That among other things might lead to discrepancies in such a tier list. Yeah.

I'm personally not into making all out tier lists right now, but I think generally really strong characters immediately benefit on a team setting, and projectile campers have trouble (due to the fact you don't want to hit your own teammate).

My real question for now is who is the WORST character on teams? And why?

 

[Emperor Time]

I dunno...G-dorf and the Captain?

 

[Kitamerby]

Worst for teams? Ice Climbers lose their advantage. *shot*


worst team might be along the lines of Meta Knight and Bowser, where one's great at killing, but can easily be teamed up on, and the other's VERY easy to team up on.


Best team? Ice Climbers x2

Both can chaingrab simultaneously and thus win every match.

 

[FlaccidSnake]

Is faux super armour taken into account?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Bowser and Bowser.

 

[Kitamerby]

Bowser and Bowser.

Works best with team attack off, or by applying FSA. Otherwise, flames from both sides make a viable (and outright awesome) strategy, as well as applying FSA to have Bowser 2 Fsmash Bowser 1 whose grabbing an opponent. The problem with this matchup as being "bad" is the fact that Bowser is susceptible to being ganged up on. By reducing the amount of people to gang up on him, he really isn't that bad, especially if you consider that both of them can do tons of damage and can set up combos to easily finish a foe off.


Seriously, though, there are VERY few "bad combinations" as almost everyone can make something awesome happen.

Hell, Ganondorf and Bowser. Fire breath/Grab/Bowserflop + Warlock punch if team attack off, grounded Dark Dive + BowserFsmash if on, etc.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

It seems ZSS would be an excellent teammate for characters with laggy moves, as she can stun them, allowing them to unleash whatever move they decide to use.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I honestly see Link having much trouble in team Brawls. More trouble than he already has in 1 vs 1. Tell me if you think otherwise.

I get the impression of Link that a lot of his strategies revolve around focusing his projectiles on a single person. He also doesn't have a whole ton of super strong kill options aside from his D-air or the 2nd F-smash. Most of what he does leaves him very open too.

 

[Morrigan]

Two Snakes = mine field

 

[A2ZOMG]

Snake's projectile game isn't very practical on teams if you ask me. You do realize that grenades hurt both you and your opponent, right?

Also, Nikita leaves you very vulnerable. So does the land mine, which also can be a nasty surprise for a teammate who isn't prepared for it.

Not that Snake isn't viable in teams. He has massive strength backing him, which helps. But I'd say he's rather worse on teams as opposed to 1 vs 1s. *shrug*

 

[Morrigan]

As a team they should pay extremely attention to where they set up their mines. That's part of the team work if you ask me.
It'll probably fit best in medium-large stages rather than Smashville, for example.

 

[PsiStomp]

Lucas and Ness can both be good with almost anyone. Absorbing projectiles,and their pretty annoying in teams.Just get your team mate to heal u once and a while.

 

[memphischains]

2 dededes

sonic and snake

 

[Mario_ 101]

Ike and Mario, since Ike has raw power and range, while mario has all the necessities (combos, reflector, projectiles, ect.)

 

[Czech]

I always thought Ike did good in 2v2 heavy and insanely good killing moves. Ike and Kirby seemed to have work out with me from what Ive played in 2's.

 

[kreechure]

I personally enjoy Dedede in team matches. nothing says great like using your teammate as a projectile to wipe out the other team.

 

[z5kaento5z]

A careful, opportunistic Ike in a 2v2 can make a huge difference.

My clan has a team with Ike and Diddy. Bananas + Fsmash =

Though I use Pika and my 2v2 partner uses link. Granted, it's not the best team, but we do pretty well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

To the OP:

while that may be true about discrepancies for doubles in the tier list. you also have to realize that a majority of the time, doubles easily devolves into two 1v.1s on the opposite side of the stage that conjoin every once in a while. because of that, even tho some things are slightly altered, the high tier characters will still have an advantage in teams. In your metaknight example, yea the down throw takes forever, but if your teammate is on the other side of the stage, fighting with his own opponent, the meta can down throw to his hearts content.

but as for the best team....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TipeV_zrI4Y

this should give you a good idea of the best team

 

[Wubblez]

Two DeDeDe's are a great combination for 2v2's.

Me and my friend do Mario and Luigi actually for tournaments at our school. Not the best grouping, but it's fun.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I doubt that there is a real discernable "best" or "worst" character for teams. They work well with some character and poorly with others.

Which means that we need a 2v2 tierlist.... containing all 1225 possible combinations. Which means we need to establish match-ups for all the possible combinations vs all the possible combinations... all 1,500,625 of them.

 

[KeyKid19]

To the OP:

while that may be true about discrepancies for doubles in the tier list. you also have to realize that a majority of the time, doubles easily devolves into two 1v.1s on the opposite side of the stage that conjoin every once in a while. because of that, even tho some things are slightly altered, the high tier characters will still have an advantage in teams. In your metaknight example, yea the down throw takes forever, but if your teammate is on the other side of the stage, fighting with his own opponent, the meta can down throw to his hearts content.

but as for the best team....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TipeV_zrI4Y

this should give you a good idea of the best team

Wow that's ****ing brutal. This weekend I'm heading out to a tourney that will have both singles and doubles brackets, so I'll see which tandem wins. Personally my friend and I are going to be playing as Falcon/Ike or Falcon/Falco. lol Our strategy is to pick the two highest controller ports, then have him grab someone and me Falcon Punch. Hopefully it will at least work once.

 

[A2ZOMG]

To the OP:

while that may be true about discrepancies for doubles in the tier list. you also have to realize that a majority of the time, doubles easily devolves into two 1v.1s on the opposite side of the stage that conjoin every once in a while. because of that, even tho some things are slightly altered, the high tier characters will still have an advantage in teams. In your metaknight example, yea the down throw takes forever, but if your teammate is on the other side of the stage, fighting with his own opponent, the meta can down throw to his hearts content.

but as for the best team....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TipeV_zrI4Y

this should give you a good idea of the best team

Sorry for the ultra late reply, but I have a reason why double DDD is not the best team.

Characters like G&W CAN'T BE CGed AT ALL.

If someone like G&W gets D-throwed, he can escape and help his partner escape the CG easily. A better combo IMO is having Zelda throw an opponent into his fully charged Oil Panic, which 1HKOs easily. Also, what's better for these two characters is that they both have better kill moves in general than DDD. All of DDD's kill moves are very situational, except for his U-tilt.

G&W can get 1HKO Buckets from many other characters, and he's both very good at dealing damage and scoring KOs, while most characters are only good at one of those. He also survives a fairly long time due to being very hard to ledgeguard. This is why I personally think G&W is overall the best character in the game when pitted in teams.

 

[Defender]

I think that a Yoshi-Falco team might do very well because they could set up a very effective wall of projectiles with Falco standing in front and shooting his blaster, and Yoshi standing behind him and using his eggs to keep enemies out of the air. That way the enemy has to advance through a hail of projectiles, hopefully taking a fair amount of damage on the way in. Yoshi's Egg Lay could be used to immobilize any characters that manage to get close, and then Yoshi and Falco could run to the other side of the stage and lay down some serious firepower. Obviously, characters like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ness, or Lucas (because of their reflectors or PSI magnets) would not have trouble with this, but other characters could have substantial difficulties with this tactic.

 

[DN Reno]

My real question for now is who is the WORST character on teams? And why?

Seems the topic has gone slight off worst and onto best.

For worst... Maybe Ike and Ganondorf?
Anyone else see the problem with having these two go up against a speedy team like ZSS and Meta Knight? Though I have to say if they could get off one or two hits they might stand a chance.

 

[wazgood]

snake ftilt spam to cover ground with falco shooting double lasers over his head to prevent aerial approaches
actually snake can be replaced by alot of characters but his ftilt was the first thing to come to mind

 

[Inuashakent]

Omg 2 diddys

 

[TVTMaster]

Ike is loads better in FFAs and team matches, since his main weakness is a predictable and oh-so-gimpable recovery that can be edgeguarded to death. When there's someone else to factor in? Minimal edgeguarding, minimal Ike death, and opportunistic Fsmash/NeutralAcombo/Ftilt spam. Heck yeah.

 

[h4rdcor3]

My friends and I play a lot to doubles and have found that it doesn't depend much on the actual characters but more on how they play together. I know a group that plays a diddy/mario (C/E rank) that beat the doubles winners of FFC #3 in Omaha, NE and they play a Snake/G&W (S/B rank). So while tier may make a difference it is very minimal.

I will play a zelda in teams because din's fire is an amazing distraction. I have caused so many kills from across the stage because they are focusing on my partner. Zelda's up smash is also great for trapping both opponents.

 

[DanGR]

The discussion is over. Ness and Zelda make the BEST team in every aspect.

 

[Crizthakidd]

Snake+MK. MK+DK. ROB+MK,Falco+MK,ROB+anyone

probably the 4 best teams with 2v2s

 

[RoyalBlood]

Zelda+Ness or Lucas = Infinite Healer

Mr. Game and Watch + Zelda = MWAHAHA Oil Panic *psycho*

Zelda + Ike = Zelda's throws to Ike's Smashes = Dead and if someone tries to gimp Ike, Din's Fire gives him back his three jumps =).

Marth + Zelda = Heavy hitters

 

[manhunter098]

Well since the topic is the WORST *character* for 2v2 (not the worst team, or the best character, or the best team).


That said I think I will go with Link as the worst. He relies heavily on his projectiles and having a teammate to try to not hit and two opponents can really take away from what is pretty much his only advantage. That said he also has a terrible recovery and while he doesnt really have KO problems, as was mentioned before, he does have strong attacks with reasonable startup time, the first hit of F-Smash is decent as a kill move and not too slow, up B works at slightly higher percents, u-air and d-air are definitely strong enough as kill moves, though they come out a bit slow for aerials, he also has f-tilt which is surprisingly strong. That said hes also slow as are his projectiles, which means he cant really help his teammate too quickly if they get into a bind. Furthermore his projectiles cant be used by Game and Watch for his bucket or Ness/Lucas for healing. Team battles pretty much take everything Link sort of has going for him, and take it away.

 

[Plum]

Also completely depends on if friendly fire is on. If it is on, G&W for the freaking win, with anyone who has an energy projectile. I personally like Fox as a G&W partner because he can fill that bucket faster than anybody else, and if you are standing right next to Fox when he fires, it's a pretty powerful oil panic.

As for worse, I really can't think there is a worst. There can be worst characters to play with other certain characters, but everyone can have a good partner IMO.

Another silly combo but completely win is Pit with either Gdorf or the Cap'n. Gliding reverse punch FTW :D

 

[manhunter098]

Well if Im correct most doubles matches in tournaments have friendly fire turned on.

 

[Megavitamins]

Marth and Rob do fairly well. Marth can live for a surprisingly long time if hes avoids getting gimped and his partner protects from getting edguared, and can KO if the marth user isnt stupid and spams his KO moves.

Rob is just amazing cuz he can get gimp kills, rack up damage, is hard to approach, can shoot a laser to reset a bad situtation for his partner, and he lives forever with proper DI. The only bad thing is, your going to be depending on your partner for kills if you don't gimp.

 

[da K.I.D.]

all tourney matches have friendly fire on.

im going to go ahead and throw up JP for worst teams partner, pls debate,

id also like to say that in teams battles, ppl with collectively slow moves, like link will suffer, while characters that are fast, but have some laggy moves, such as CF will fare better, because those situational moves, have their specific situations come up alot more often in teams.

id also say that, characters with hold and set knockback moves are great because it will help your partner to do team attacks with the previously mentioned ko moves. good example.
D3 downthrow to ganon warlock punch, or even D3 down throw to murder choke, to D3 forward smash.

now im not saying that D3 ganon is the best team im just making an example, things like pikas d-smash D3s down throw, ganons side-b, swallows, bananas and lasers all have their usefullness exemplifyed in team matches

 

[Sosuke]

Umm....DK and Ike.
DK: Side-B, Ike:F-Smash.
There ya go.

 

[solidsnake01]

The worst team possible would be something like Bowser and Metaknight. Best team would be 2 Ice Climbers because its like having 4 people on one team

 

[da K.I.D.]

i dont understand why everyone thinks that ice climbers would be so beast on team, in my mind they would be one of the worst team choices, just because they would get involuntarily desynced constantly, and the other team would spend the entire game destroying nana, and popo isnt all that effective by himself. not to mention that its not possilble to get a infinite grab off in a team match. also all the reason that ppl give for saying that it would be a good idea are purely cosmetic and arent applicable in real teams play

my vote for worst character to have on a team with you would proly be either JP of samus, they could work pretty well together, but other than that, i see them being straight up awful in teams play

ive also done the fox game and watch combo, with some cat i had never met b4. i dont play fox and he doesnt play GaW but we still ***** face, i think that is a great team

 

[Sudsy86_]

Worst team: Jigglypuff and Falcon. No long range attacks force them into close-range fighting, likely a few ***** as well.

best team: R.O.B and MK. MK's close range fighting is unmatched while ROB has all the tools to play it safe, preserve life, while not doing too much damage to teammate with long range attacks. Plus, ROB's laser is wonderful in breaking up grabs. ( ROB is my preferred team character and I have a bit of experience with him, while MK is just an intuitive theoretical giant)

Best character is most certainly ROB because of his fast ground offense, spacing, and triumphant defensive play.

Worst is Jigglypuff because she's light and has no long range attacks.