The Nameless Wanderer
Smash Lord
I try to stand Horizontal towards Peach as Charizard and see if I can get a quick RAR Bair if they're in the air/floating.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Charizard Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
stingers
Smash Obsessed
charizard def. does not beat peach. bait a usmash OOS and zard takes like 50% lol.
Charizard is super fat and easy to combo for peach. Her aerials tear through rock smash and flamethrower, his recovery is free for turnips slowing down any momentum you have. He does have some strong points in the matchup. Having a spike that can outrange her up b from the top is a nice way to score a kill at 30+%.
this hardcore. i think charizard ***** 'traditional heavies', and would **** dedede if he couldn't chaingrab
also peach's shield pressure is too good, nothing zard has OoS is really that safe
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Ivy beats zard coz....
she has minimal knockback from bullet seed?
she has minimal knockback from bullet seed?
T-block
B2B TST
Bullet Seed hurts, but more importantly, Charizard is a big target with moves that come out pretty slowly. When spacing horizontally, Charizard's fastest aerial is b-air, which is still only frame 7. Tilts are slow, and u-smash leaves him open if he misses. This allows Ivysaur to wall Charizard somewhat effectively, and then when she does get in, she can do a lot of damage with n-air and Bullet Seed thanks to Charizard's large frame.
Charizard's dash speed is what prevents this from being a bad matchup imo. Despite Ivysaur's range, she still has horrendous aerial mobility, which gives Charizard a decent amount of room to outplay Ivysaur.
Ivysaur also edgeguards Charizard hilariously well.
Charizard's dash speed is what prevents this from being a bad matchup imo. Despite Ivysaur's range, she still has horrendous aerial mobility, which gives Charizard a decent amount of room to outplay Ivysaur.
Ivysaur also edgeguards Charizard hilariously well.
Charizard doesn't need to upsmash or commit to anything to beat ivysaur. Walling with bair is ridiculously worthless in this matchup. It will barely even list zard off the ground. All zard needs is 1 grab and he can put ivysaur in a horrible position. Even a luckky fair if he gets close enough will destroy ivysaur instantly. Not to mention flamethrower can compete fine with ivy's bair when you factor in risk/reward.
Ivy has some manageable stuff close range, but he still has to worry about rock smash, up b, getting grabbed or anything not super slow if he screws up close range.
I'm not seeing how Ivysaur edgeguards zard so well. Can he even cover a low diving glide under the stage? Or a super high glide that results in a mere juggle attempt with a weakened uair?
Ivy has some manageable stuff close range, but he still has to worry about rock smash, up b, getting grabbed or anything not super slow if he screws up close range.
I'm not seeing how Ivysaur edgeguards zard so well. Can he even cover a low diving glide under the stage? Or a super high glide that results in a mere juggle attempt with a weakened uair?
T-block
B2B TST
Low glide under the stage would be pretty effective actually. Ivysaur can drop down pretty low and still remain pretty safe since Vine Whip gets her up so quickly. I was talking more about when Charizard is off-stage, but not far enough out to be able to glide that low though. That u-air is weaker doesn't matter - it will still have enough knockback to reset to juggling positions, and still KOs at decent percents.
B-air isn't worthless at all... it's enough of a disruption. Short hop b-air will get you in trouble, but fast falling it to land after the first hit, or rising full hop b-air is still a pain for Charizard to deal with. I mean, it's not like we're just spamming b-air over and over again, right?
B-air isn't worthless at all... it's enough of a disruption. Short hop b-air will get you in trouble, but fast falling it to land after the first hit, or rising full hop b-air is still a pain for Charizard to deal with. I mean, it's not like we're just spamming b-air over and over again, right?
T-block
B2B TST
It's pretty low risk low reward. Nothing wrong with that =\
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Ok guys this whole peach ***** zard thing is very far fom correct. Yes peach can combo zard but it should never to be at 50 unless she manages to get your at 0 which is your own fault.
Firstly....shield pressure with d-air from peach should be non exsistant on zard.....studder step rock smash forces a peach who commited to d-air to set off RS counter and thus have her approach nullified. Not to mention the only option of peach's that beats RS is f-air thats it because f-air cuts throw all the pieces of shrapnel from the rock the hits zards.
Flamethrower also is a toll used to take peach out of the air....I am not saying commit to holding flamethrower down but light bursts of it completely shut down floating. Flamethrower is also really nice since it negates turnips which make proper flamethrower use real important.
Zard should never have to commit to U-smash OoS because of the fact that you have 2 major answers to floating in your b-moves, I mean honestly you shouldnt be letting peach get to your shield if she is floating because thats like breaking rule one in the squirtle v. marth matchup of don't get grabbed.
Zard's b-air is awesome here because when you mix it in with the RS and flamethrower shut down of floating you can connect and push her out of the air everytime. Proper mix up of b-air and grabs allow zard to really have a solid way of getting closer to peach without risking as much as when she comes after you.
Look this is a matchup I have talked and debated about quite some time ago on these boards.....I friendly Vinnie all the time and if any of you don't know vinnie you should look into him because he's said to be right under illmatic when it comes to peach. Once I had my matchup knowledge vinnie has even agreed peach v. zard is not close to being in blantant favor of peach. Zard can rack damage way faster than peach and can shut down almost every approach she has....sorry guys if your playing zard right there is no way she should be crushing your zard's
Firstly....shield pressure with d-air from peach should be non exsistant on zard.....studder step rock smash forces a peach who commited to d-air to set off RS counter and thus have her approach nullified. Not to mention the only option of peach's that beats RS is f-air thats it because f-air cuts throw all the pieces of shrapnel from the rock the hits zards.
Flamethrower also is a toll used to take peach out of the air....I am not saying commit to holding flamethrower down but light bursts of it completely shut down floating. Flamethrower is also really nice since it negates turnips which make proper flamethrower use real important.
Zard should never have to commit to U-smash OoS because of the fact that you have 2 major answers to floating in your b-moves, I mean honestly you shouldnt be letting peach get to your shield if she is floating because thats like breaking rule one in the squirtle v. marth matchup of don't get grabbed.
Zard's b-air is awesome here because when you mix it in with the RS and flamethrower shut down of floating you can connect and push her out of the air everytime. Proper mix up of b-air and grabs allow zard to really have a solid way of getting closer to peach without risking as much as when she comes after you.
Look this is a matchup I have talked and debated about quite some time ago on these boards.....I friendly Vinnie all the time and if any of you don't know vinnie you should look into him because he's said to be right under illmatic when it comes to peach. Once I had my matchup knowledge vinnie has even agreed peach v. zard is not close to being in blantant favor of peach. Zard can rack damage way faster than peach and can shut down almost every approach she has....sorry guys if your playing zard right there is no way she should be crushing your zard's
MintyFlesh
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 577
but you lost to sgtw!
<3
<3
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Lol well I lost by less than 40% both games...not to mention I went 3-0 against him after that and almost 2 stocked him in one of those games......so thanks minty but my point still stands.
T-block
B2B TST
I'm not too familiar with the matchup (other than getting wrecked), so I can't really comment. I'll try some of the stuff you said out next time though ^^
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
T-block
B2B TST
You are ridiculous, in my opinion.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Your mom is ridiculous, in my opinion.
Charizard is the only Pokemon Bowser can standing CG. It's nasty. Ftilt also beats out Rock Smash.
Depending on the stage, Squirtle or Ivysaur does best against Bowser. Both are really good at comboing Bowser and getting away, but Squirtle gets dumped on without platforms. GR Klaw is really easy to time, as is GR runoff upair. Both have ways to gay Bowser, but Charizard lacks a move to gay Bowser too bad.
IMO, Bowser goes even with a lot of heavies. I'm really comfortable in those MUs.
Charizard is the only Pokemon Bowser can standing CG. It's nasty. Ftilt also beats out Rock Smash.
Depending on the stage, Squirtle or Ivysaur does best against Bowser. Both are really good at comboing Bowser and getting away, but Squirtle gets dumped on without platforms. GR Klaw is really easy to time, as is GR runoff upair. Both have ways to gay Bowser, but Charizard lacks a move to gay Bowser too bad.
IMO, Bowser goes even with a lot of heavies. I'm really comfortable in those MUs.
I thougth Bowser could infinite Ivysaur or something.Your mom is ridiculous, in my opinion.
Charizard is the only Pokemon Bowser can standing CG. It's nasty. Ftilt also beats out Rock Smash.
Depending on the stage, Squirtle or Ivysaur does best against Bowser. Both are really good at comboing Bowser and getting away, but Squirtle gets dumped on without platforms. GR Klaw is really easy to time, as is GR runoff upair. Both have ways to gay Bowser, but Charizard lacks a move to gay Bowser too bad.
IMO, Bowser goes even with a lot of heavies. I'm really comfortable in those MUs.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Technically no. Off the top of my head, I'm fairly sure it's not an infinite if Ivysaur doesn't mash jump to escape.
T-block
B2B TST
It's something like a 50% chance that Charizard will just air release though.
Charizard's u-throw gays Bowser lol
Charizard's u-throw gays Bowser lol
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
It's dependent on how I pummel vs. how you mash out.
Zard's upthrow is annoying, but so is everyone else's upthrow, haha.
Zard's upthrow is annoying, but so is everyone else's upthrow, haha.
T-block
B2B TST
I remember hearing 15/27 frames.
I also refuse to believe that anyone is able to time their pummels according to how their opponent is mashing out (yeah looking at you Reflex).
And Charizard has the dash speed to stay under Bowser, and the grab range to land regrabs more often. You fall off-stage and aim for the ledge either thanks to Flamethrower.
I also refuse to believe that anyone is able to time their pummels according to how their opponent is mashing out (yeah looking at you Reflex).
And Charizard has the dash speed to stay under Bowser, and the grab range to land regrabs more often. You fall off-stage and aim for the ledge either thanks to Flamethrower.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
You better not miss your grabs, or else I'll just Klaw you all day at Genesis. 
~*^ThE CaLlOuT^*~You better not miss your grabs, or else I'll just Klaw you all day at Genesis.
also zard's flamethrower is mmm mmm good compared to boozer's
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Dood your bowser aint even that tight.
My bowser is tight.
My bowser is tight.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Oh it's on, Miles.
Sam, I will do the same thing to you ONLY IN REAL LIFE.
Sam, I will do the same thing to you ONLY IN REAL LIFE.
Ingoro
Smash Ace
Should I join in on the trashtalk? I mean... I'm from Europe so Zigsta ain't gonna come here :D
Charizard > Bowsie.
Charizard > Bowsie.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
*flies to Europe*
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
lol. I might make a trip out to Edmonton since it's like a 9 hour drive but I definitely don't think i'm as good as T-Block lol. T-block my Ganon is better than yours.
T-block
B2B TST
Who cares how good you are? (I'm not that good btw =p) You should definitely come... it's fun meeting other PTs.
And you've never seen my Ganon... what makes you so sure?
And you've never seen my Ganon... what makes you so sure?
MintyFlesh
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 577
I'm kidding, btw we need to play sometime lol
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
I didn't know you had a Ganon and mines decent so I just guessed lol. Yeah maybe this summer me, my friend, and rob and some other people can come. Just don't know if my parents would let me...
T-block
B2B TST
Haha... everyone has a Ganondorf or a C. Falcon =P
Yes. You will be there. No room for discussion. Looking forward to meeting you ^_^
Yes. You will be there. No room for discussion. Looking forward to meeting you ^_^
Killanator90
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
- Messages
- 305
do ya'll have any videos of your matches anywhere that i could look at?
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Haha that's true.
Check the second thread from the top. The one that says video library.
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
I like switching from Charizard to Ganon last stock to throw people off.
Has anyone thought about using a DJ'd Dair on taller characters? I've thought about using it lately since it can autocancel and has good range. I think it might be a valuable mixup if someone's near the ledge shielding. The hit should push them off the stage, making it safe for us, or they get read and popped into the air, giving us a better chance to make another hard read.