Choosing Your Starter: IKE take TWO

[Vermy]

It's equal to Toon Link's.
Exact same projectiles.
Link's arrows hit harder and go further and faster.
His gale boomerang is good for set ups, edge guarding and mindgames.
And their bomb techs are identical.

But yeah, vs Link it's pretty much put your best foot forward. No Pokemon is the wrong choice to start with unless its the one you're weakest with.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Tl can do 2 arrows in a SH with no ending lag which seems to be much more important.

I would say Squirtle in this MU for what Vermis said.

dabuz.

 

[MaTA]

well like i said personal preference.

 

[Dabuz]

Tl can do 2 arrows in a SH with no ending lag which seems to be much more important.

I would say Squirtle in this MU for what Vermis said.

dabuz.

omg...why have i been summoned?!

 

[Bomber7]

guys, Link, not Toon Boy.

 

[typh]

any LOL get *****

 

[Tien2500]

Zard works decently. If you can get past the spam you can Bthrow to Fthrow off the stage and gimp/flamethrower. (I'm pretty sure Bthrow to Fthrow is a combo at low percents on him). Squirtle destroys him too. Ivy can go shot for shot with him at range and can get tons of damage with bullet seed. They're all good. Squirtle is probably the best but any one you like will work.

 

[SuSa]

Squirtle. The reasons should be dead ****ing obvious.

/all you need.

 

[T-block]

Zard sounds like he might have troubles with the projectiles, but I don't see it being insurmountable. Squirtle sounds good to me.

I dunno, I don't play Link ever.

 

[Falconv1.0]

How to beat Link

1.)Don't get hit by the stupid spam
2.)Grab and throw off edge
3.)Laugh at his AMAZING recovery
4.)??????????
5.)Profit

 

[SuSa]

How to beat Link

1.)Don't get hit by the stupid spam
2.)Grab and throw off edge
3.)Laugh at his AMAZING recovery
4.)??????????
5.)Profit

You left out the sourspot fair/bair (or better yet, watergun) with Squirtle as step 2.5

 

[TheReflexWonder]

any LOL get *****

Reflex approves of this statement.

 

[Steeler]

water gun a lot and eventually you'll get a gimp somehow

 

[Toby.]

hydrograb -> air release->water gun.

ho ho ho

 

[Steeler]

ok that might be a guaranteed gimp

95:5 squirtle

 

[Falconv1.0]

hydrograb -> air release->water gun.

ho ho ho

Link is such a **** character.

@Susa, no, you just edited my post to make me look stupid. =/

Spoiler

I kid I kid.

 

[Bomber7]

Imo I think all three would be fine. I've never seen a Link player yet that can create a projectile wall and create few approaching options like a certain TL player that I know. Plus Charizard has a spike on that recovery.

 

[Steeler]

link can definitely do the stuff TL does. charizard is pretty annoying to use in this matchup against good links.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Imo I think all three would be fine. I've never seen a Link player yet that can create a projectile wall and create few approaching options like a certain TL player that I know. Plus Charizard has a spike on that recovery.

Who are you objecting? Link is terrible, everyone beats him. Unless someone actually means annoying=bad. Charizard beats him, Ivy beats him, Squirtle beats him, hell my mom can beat him.

 

[9Kplus1]

Who are you objecting? Link is terrible, everyone beats him. Unless someone actually means annoying=bad. Charizard beats him, Ivy beats him, Squirtle beats him, hell my mom can beat him.

The CPUs are better than pro Links...

Out of the few good links I faced, I only faced one with PT :/. I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said. He's just too easy to gimp... with any of the pokemon.

 

[Bomber7]

Who are you objecting? Link is terrible, everyone beats him. Unless someone actually means annoying=bad. Charizard beats him, Ivy beats him, Squirtle beats him, hell my mom can beat him.

It was an opinion not an objection.

Well either way Squirtle and Ivy got the best of this match up for starting however it looks like we have a few who want Charizard and a few who don't.

 

[MaTA]

yeah like me

 

[Steeler]

i've played legan and arkivezero, two of the very best links. yes, he's easy to gimp. you **** when you get in there and have the stage control but at the same time, link has good stage control of his own. just focus on getting gimps and you should usually win this matchup.

 

[Bomber7]

i've played legan and arkivezero, two of the very best links. yes, he's easy to gimp. you **** when you get in there and have the stage control but at the same time, link has good stage control of his own. just focus on getting gimps and you should usually win this matchup.

So when it comes to starting Charizard, it is pretty much who is better at stage control?

 

[Zigsta]

I also prefer Charizard in this matchup. Ultimately, like most people here have already said, this boils down to who you are most comfortable with. I feel like all three do well against Link, but in this matchup I personally prefer Ivysaur the least, so starting as Charizard keeps Ivysaur the farthest away.

 

[Magik0722]

I like to start with squirtle for the utilt combo to start off the first stock, also it is possible to watergun gimp him very eaasily

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've never actually played against a good Link.

 

[Bomber7]

I've never actually played against a good Link.

Neither have I. I think Popertop has a decent one, but anyway, I do like the idea that all 3 would be good to start, when it would come to charizard, you would just have to watch projectile spam and such other than that, Link is toast. Ivysaur isn't bad either for a ranged battle and the BS the crap out of link etc.

other than that, Idk.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

I have played one before. I do feel Squirtle pretty much owns link.

Ivysaur unfortunately cannot outcamp Link. His Jab is also annoying to her .

Charizard can wreck Link if manages to get inside, although that F#### Zair is evil.

 

[Bomber7]

I have played one before. I do feel Squirtle pretty much owns link.

Ivysaur unfortunately cannot outcamp Link. His Jab is also annoying to her .

Charizard can wreck Link if manages to get inside, although that F#### Zair is evil.

Zair is already a given that can disrupt a good charizard game, however if they spam it then you can punish it.

 

[Zigsta]

I also forgot to say that Flamethrower cancels Link's arrows and maybe his boomerang. I can't remember. XD

 

[9Kplus1]

Just get past his projectiles and Charizard has most of the stock down, already.

 

[Bomber7]

So continuing the discussion, so far we are confident of squirtle and ivysaur can get the job done however charizard is still into question.

Zair isn't that bad, if it abused, then you can punish by sheildgrabbing, etc. However if Link's projectiles, if handled by a good projectilist, are bad news then charizard could not be the best choice. It almost seems like an even match. Link can keep him spaced pretty well, but if charizard gets close, then Link is f***ed

 

[Bomber7]

Characer Discussion: LUCARIO

Ok, so for starting up against Lucario, the selections are Squirtle and Charizard.

I agree with this just from experience I have noticed, Squirtle can rack damage quickly and even though Lucario has good hit boxes, still has a bit of a hard time hitting the little guy. When it comes to Charizard, Charizard can take the damage and give some, with Lucario's floaty body, he can be easily KO's by one of Charz's power moves (rocksmash, fsmash, etc)

 

[Tien2500]

I find that the hitboxes on Lucario's aerials can be a bit tough to deal with as Squirtle. Nothing awful but enough that I use Charizard. Dunno exactly why but I've always found this an easy matchup for charizard. Aura sphere doesn't camp well enough and Charizard doesn't have difficulty approaching. Gimping him is very easy as his recovery has no hitbox.

Squirtle should be ok too though. His aerials are way quicker than Lucarios so if you stay on of him you can give him trouble. Again hes's easy to gimp. Probably even easier as Squirtle than Zard.

I'd say go with whoever you're comfortable with.

 

[Kage Me]

Gimping him is very easy as his recovery has no hitbox.

True, but somewhat countered by the curve, the speed and (on some stages) the wall cling. This isn't Fox, mind: even if you edgehog, Lucario can easily land on stage 90% of the time, especially with proper DI. Of course, you can punish him for that, but Lucario is by no means easily gimped. You also have to take into account that he can quite safely defend himself from edgeguarding with any of his directional air attacks, as well as Aura Sphere (situational).

I'd recommend starting as Squirtle over Charizard due to Lucario's early chaingrab, but they're both viable. When starting as Squirtle, though, you might want to consider switching to Ivysaur early - if you don't kill him fast, he'll become SUPER LUCARIO. Not only will this allow you to avoid that to some extent, but after KO'ing Lucario as Ivysaur, you can deal some additional damage and lessen the impact of Lucario's chaingrab when Charizard comes in.

The order I'd recommend:
- Start as Squirtle.
- Switch to Ivysaur when Lucario and Squirtle both get medium-high percentages.
- Finish the stock as Ivysaur.
- Tank Charizard throughout the next stock, unless you manage to kill Lucario while Charizard is at a low %. In that case, switch to Squirtle when you get the kill.
- Again, switch to Ivysaur once Lucario and Squirtle get to medium-high percentages.
- If necessary, switch to Charizard to finish the job.

This switching pattern will allow you to take advantage of the fact that at low %, Lucario is Baby Lucario.

 

[Bomber7]

That is basically how I'd play it.

To me Ivy racks damage too well on Lucario which only makes him get to Super Lucario faster and then he can aerial combo Ivy off the stage and ledge hog.

Also I forget, but I think rocksmash can take out a super Aura sphere and flame thrower is also good for taking out aura spheres (just not fully charged ones, leave rocksmash up to that)

 

[Falconv1.0]

When playing Charizard, I usually rock smash til I have a kill.

Yay for floaty characters.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

When playing Charizard, I usually rock smash til I have a kill.

Yay for floaty characters.

Isn't that the same for every character, though? <3

 

[Bomber7]

Even so, Lucario is pretty floaty, not as floaty as any other character that is floaty but still enough to fall victim to a well placed attack.