Combos, Do They Still Exist?

[Rhubarbo]

So after playing Brawl for about 135 hours, I've picked up on all of it's nuances. What I've realized however is that performing a combo now is next to impossible, and the ones you do perform are 2-3 hits. Is it just me or are combos next to impossible in Brawl?

 

[R3v3nant]

You are correct. Combos do not exist any more in Brawl.

 

[-sonny-]

It's only really possible to combo 2-3 hits at a REALLY low percent, and I mean like 0-5%.

Otherwise, the only real "combos" with aren't even really combos at higher percents are just chain grabs.

 

[Demon Kirby]

You do realize that this is as old as dirt, right?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I heard Sonic was in Brawl....

 

[Rhubarbo]

Someone please respond...

 

[R3v3nant]

Ok.... to answer your question directly again. it's not just you, combos are virtually impossible except for 2-3 hits at low percentages or chain grabs. You might have some success with multiple hit combos but probably only on someone who doesn't DI or airdodge.

 

[Card]

It's called.. Consecutive Hits!

 

[diabetic_yoshi]

Yeah, I have now idea how they expect us to complete that 400 hit combo challenge. Are they insane?

 

[Siamese Lizard]

I did alot of combos, they are not that hard, when I was in subspace, I defeated the many weird creatures(in the level) with a couple hits at once, it seemed to do the trick, very easy, just need to get the timing right.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I... I think I've seen this thread somewhere before... It might have been last week... And the week before that... And then when Brawl was released in the US... And then when Brawl was released in Japan... And the speculation from before Brawl was released...

 

[Demon Kirby]

I... I think I've seen this thread somewhere before... It might have been last week... And the week before that... And then when Brawl was released in the US... And then when Brawl was released in Japan... And the speculation from before Brawl was released...

I saw it in the crystal ball I purchased in 2003.

I also foresaw Sonic 06 and cried.

 

[metayoshi]

Yeah, I have now idea how they expect us to complete that 400 hit combo challenge. Are they insane?

Get the screw attack item to appear in training mode, equip it, and double jump. You can land around a 20-ish hit combo with it and it'll let you get to 400 total with everybody.

 

[shadydentist]

To get the 400 hit combo: pikachu jab against Bowser against a wall.

 

[LouisLeGros]

Get the screw attack item to appear in training mode, equip it, and double jump. You can land around a 20-ish hit combo with it and it'll let you get to 400 total with everybody.

or set their life to 999% and grab them then hit a a bunch of times.... or do the infinite chain grab against a wall... or a lot of smart bombs

 

[Solong]

Easy way to get the 400 Combos is to use a stage with a wall, like Shadow Moses, and use a superspicy curry...this'll get about 150 combos

 

[Newuser12345215]

I haven't tried this yet, so this is just speculation. I know it does work with two Lucario players but not sure about one.

So anyway, pick Lucario.

Go to a stage where there is a wall.

Hit or move the CPU to a wall.

Go right next to the CPU, but face away from the fall.

Use his neutral B and keep it charging.

This may or may not work, all I know is that I could do an infinite combo with two Lucario doing the charge thing close to each other, not sure if it can work with just one Lucario and a wall.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Yes, they still exist. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[sesshomaru]

lol my sheiks got a combo count of 150 or something. i havent tried falcos yet but theres a vid of falco holding comp ddd off the edge at 999%. he keeps tryin to DI through the *** beating. also funny is the kid who posted it called it a new AT and put spin you like a record baby as the background music. lol to good.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Yeah, I have now idea how they expect us to complete that 400 hit combo challenge. Are they insane?

OR you could take the easy way and do this :|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOALfhYcS9Q&fmt=18

 

[Dime]

Comblows Don Exits!!!
But seriously, yes they do just not as much as they did in melee. (So I have heard)

 

[6footninja]

Yes, they still exist. Don't be ridiculous.

Yeah, they just arent as satisfying as in melee :[. This brings us to Brawl being Slower than Melee. Nothing wrong with that, I think all that is available more than makes up for it.

 

[-sonny-]

I'm sorry, but true combos just don't exist. As I already said, any combos that you'll see are going to be at ridiculously low percents and anything higher will have to be a chain grab or your opponent can just DI out of it after one hit.

Predicting your opponents next move to get more than one hit in a row is not a combo.

 

[I.T.P]

Combos still exist, they're just shorter and less painfull usually, but some are just as strong, you need to delay your hits to the exact timing of the hitstun, and you need to be familiar with the weight of the character you're attacking.

Luigi Vs bowser could pull off a falling Nair -> Utilt X3 -> Uair X2 -> Bair X2 if timed properly, and they'll all connect and be unescapable, you can DI and try to avoid some of these, but well timed, these will hit and be guarenteed.

 

[Yuna]

Combos still exist, they're just shorter and less painfull usually, but some are just as strong, you need to delay your hits to the exact timing of the hitstun, and you need to be familiar with the weight of the character you're attacking..

Wait, what? You have to delay your attacks? This game has an universal buffering system. If you spam, it'll come out at the very first possible frame.

For another thing, if you "delay" your attacks in any way, your chances of hitting with it will decrease. Maybe you meant, you know, "time". Timing it to the exact frame where your move ends, but that doesn't make sense either because of the universal buffering system.

Luigi Vs bowser could pull off a falling Nair -> Utilt X3 -> Uair X2 -> Bair X2 if timed properly, and they'll all connect and be unescapable, you can DI and try to avoid some of these, but well timed, these will hit and be guarenteed.

Yeah, if the opponent is an idiot.

U-tilt x 3 followed by Uair x 2 followed by Bair x 2? And these are guaranteed, you say? On whom? You and your friends?

 

[Ark22]

Yes, combos still exist. They just are harder than in Melee. Shiek can still combo with her tilts, and like ITP said, Luigi has some pretty crazy combos if you time them right.

Yuna, watch some good luigi videos before posting. I'm not sure if you can do a combo that long, but I have seen several inescapable 5 - 6 hit Luigi combos.

 

[Riolu]

I can still do combos, I don't see what's so hard about it.

 

[6footninja]

I can still do combos, I don't see what's so hard about it.

They're not fast and common anymore :[

 

[Yuna]

Yes, combos still exist. They just are harder than in Melee. Shiek can still combo with her tilts, and like ITP said, Luigi has some pretty crazy combos if you time them right.

Certain characters can still combo, big whoop. Overall, comboing is down and that's the important part. Of course certain combos can still combo. No one's denied that.

Has anyone here actually sat down and tried Squirtle's U-tilt out?

Yuna, watch some good luigi videos before posting. I'm not sure if you can do a combo that long, but I have seen several inescapable 5 - 6 hit Luigi combos.

The pointis that I.T.P., as usual, is exaggerating like crazy.

 

[I.T.P]

Certain characters can still combo, big whoop. Overall, comboing is down and that's the important part. Of course certain combos can still combo. No one's denied that.

The pointis that I.T.P., as usual, is exaggerating like crazy.

if you think that this combo is not a real combo, go try it, luigi vs bowser, starts anywhere around 0-20%. the Uair might need to decay a bit before making it to X2 though. otherwise this entire thing is a guarenteed combo which is only DIable.

a lot of moves in the game work similiarly, if you know the length of the air dodge animation and hit stun frames and you wait between attacks(in this case, Uairs) then you can prolong the combo, and get combos ranging from 3-7 hits depending on the character and the attack.

take this video for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8d1Q3WBBGg , at 0:53, R.O.B gets hit by a popo only Uair X2 -> Utilt -> Uair -> Fair.

no let's assume that there is an air dodge window that was missed on that combo, in case R.O.B did air dodge(which I'm pretty sure he couldn't) he would have been hit by a FF Bair or any other aerial, meaning he didn't really avoid anything.

the point is, rob's airdodge would end enough time after the uair for popo to attack again, so airdodging didn't save him.


now this is a fact, video'd combo. are you blaming me on opinions again?


and actually, many people in this thread stated wrong facts and unimformed opinions about all combos being 2-3 hits, which is denying the existence of combos in my book.

I will post more video examples if you want me to, my friend can help me make them. I can post that Bowser combo as well.

 

[Yuna]

if you think that this combo is not a real combo, go try it, luigi vs bowser, starts anywhere around 0-20%. the Uair might need to decay a bit before making it to X2 though. otherwise this entire thing is a guarenteed combo which is only DIable.

Wait, what? Are you saying the combo is guaranteed unless you DI, at which point you can DI out of it?

Or that you can just DI it to prevent even more Uairs and Uptilts?

a lot of moves in the game work similiarly, if you know the length of the air dodge animation and hit stun frames and you wait between attacks(in this case, Uairs) then you can prolong the combo, and get combos ranging from 3-7 hits depending on the character and the attack.

This is not comboing. This predicting their recovery attempts and punishing them for it. No one in their right (competitive) mind would call this comboing. Not in other fightings games (in games where you have recovery options like Guilty Gear and Melty Blood) and not in Smash.

For one thing, it won't work if they don't try to airdodge.

take this video for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8d1Q3WBBGg , at 0:53, R.O.B gets hit by a popo only Uair X2 -> Utilt -> Uair -> Fair.

no let's assume that there is an air dodge window that was missed on that combo, in case R.O.B did air dodge(which I'm pretty sure he couldn't) he would have been hit by a FF Bair or any other aerial, meaning he didn't really avoid anything.

the point is, rob's airdodge would end enough time after the uair for popo to attack again, so airdodging didn't save him.

Airdodge into Nair? Nair without airdodge? 2nd jumping?

I just watched the video. Though he'd lost his 2nd jump, there were plenty of time for him to react and plenty of opportunities for him to do it. The Fair for one thing. He could've Up B:ed or airdodged. Had he tried to airdodge when Popo Faired, the Fair would've whiffed and he'd have recovered in time to punish Popo.

You, sir, have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

now this is a fact, video'd combo. are you blaming me on opinions again?

This is a crappy R.O.B. and you knowing next to nothing about Smash venting your ignorance.

and actually, many people in this thread stated wrong facts and unimformed opinions about all combos being 2-3 hits, which is denying the existence of combos in my book.[/quote9
They never said "all". They used words like "generally" and "usually". And at least what they're saying could pass for fact. What you're saying barely passes for fiction.

I will post more video examples if you want me to, my friend can help me make them. I can post that Bowser combo as well.

I'm sure you can. I'll be here to ridicule you for it.

 

[I.T.P]

You're even more ignorant and intolerable than I thought, you spit reason in the face, and you misread my posts, use ridiculous and wrong counterarguments and pretend them to be fact.

I'm not going to stop posting my opinion on these boards, and I will post counterarguments against intelligent people, but I'm definitely not going to continue arguing with a brick wall, and will continue to ignore your posts, just like I've done for the past couple of days.

I mean come on, I wrote delay an attack by half a second and you mistook it for wait for the opponent to try and attack, I wrote DI to try and make your opponent miss, and you took it for you can DI and never get hit.

if you think that combo is BS, than you obviously haven't played enough brawl or ICs. R.O.B's Nair is too laggy for that situation, his air dodge would've been punished before he would be able to Nair. and had he airdodged the last Fair(which he probably couldn't anyway) he would've been in the worst possible position to avoid another hit.

and I won't start quoting the ignorance this thread is overflowing with, just go back and read posts for yourself.


your next "brick wall" idiotic post will be ignored by me, I'm tired of you repeating the same stupid and wrong arguments over and over and pretend they're fact and I know nothing.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Watched the vid I.T.P.




R.O.B. could've escaped between each attack. Actually, if you look, before the ICs fair, you can see R.O.B. start his fair.




EDIT: I LIED!!



You can see R.O.B. start his fair between all attacks.

 

[Yuna]

You're even more ignorant and intolerable than I thought, you spit reason in the face, and you misread my posts, use ridiculous and wrong counterarguments and pretend them to be fact.

They're not ridiculous or wrong. The fact that you have yet to refute a single one of them, ever shows us that you don't have any counter-arguments.

It's not my fault if you're grasp of basic English isn't sufficient for you to not contradict yourself or write stuff that sounds ridiculous in people's ears.

I'm not going to stop posting my opinion on these boards, and I will post counterarguments against intelligent people, but I'm definitely not going to continue arguing with a brick wall, and will continue to ignore your posts, just like I've done for the past couple of days.

You keep saying this. "I won't counter-argue you because your posts aren't intelligent". I'd say you're rather saying "I don't wanna admit I was cataclysmically wrong but I can't find any faults in your logic and arguments so I just won't try to counter-argue you".

If I'm so ridiculous and wrong, how come you can't counter a single one of my arguments (while many others agree with mine and no one with yours)?

I mean come on, I wrote delay an attack by half a second and you mistook it for wait for the opponent to try and attack, I wrote DI to try and make your opponent miss, and you took it for you can DI and never get hit.

1) Why the hell would delaying an attack in any way allow you to combo more then if you were to simply throw it out at the soonest possible moment? How is that even possible?!
2) You said the combo works unless they DI. So how am I supposed to interpret it? So if Bowser DI's, the combo will miss? Or if Bowser DI's, the combo will be cut shorter because he can't Uair twice/U-tilt thrice? What is it?

if you think that combo is BS, than you obviously haven't played enough brawl or ICs. R.O.B's Nair is too laggy for that situation, his air dodge would've been punished before he would be able to Nair. and had he airdodged the last Fair(which he probably couldn't anyway) he would've been in the worst possible position to avoid another hit

The Nair is generally your fastest attack. R.O.B. Nair is too slow? Well then, he should use any of his other aerials. Are they all too slow? Airdodge. In that video, you can see R.O.B. trying to Fair between each and every hit instead of simply DI:ing the **** away or Airdodging or Up B:ing. That was a ****ty R.O.B. and you're a ****ty player if you think what that IC's did was in any way impressive.

your next "brick wall" idiotic post will be ignored by me, I'm tired of you repeating the same stupid and wrong arguments over and over and pretend they're fact and I know nothing.

You never even try to counter my arguments... ever. Because you know you'll lose (or in most cases, have already lost). Stop ignoring everything you can't counter-argue with the ridiculous comment "It's too stupid for me to even reply to".

At least I have to decency to admit I'm wrong. But I guess that if you were to start doing that, 75% of your posts (in the least) would be recants.

Watched the vid I.T.P.

R.O.B. could've escaped between after each attack. Actually, if you look, before the ICs fair, you can see R.O.B. start his fair.

EDIT: I LIED!!

You can see R.O.B. start his fair between all attacks.

QFT.

 

[I.T.P]

Watched the vid I.T.P.




R.O.B. could've escaped between each attack. Actually, if you look, before the ICs fair, you can see R.O.B. start his fair.




EDIT: I LIED!!



You can see R.O.B. start his fair between all attacks.

I rewatched it a couple of times, he tried to start his fair on 2-3 of the hits, you're right.

this means none of his attacks could've stopped it, but he could've air dodged and get a smaller punishment.

doesn't make my argument about other combos existing any less viable though, but thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Edit: Void is saying that TMSH tried to Nair between attacks, and it didn't comeout in time.

Yuna, your illiterateness is killing me, I Said that DI could confuse the opponent, but if it is predicted the entire combo will still hit

 

[Twin Dreams]

I rewatched it a couple of times, he tried to start his fair on 2-3 of the hits, you're right.

this means none of his attacks could've stopped it, but he could've air dodged and get a smaller punishment.

doesn't make my argument about other combos existing any less viable though, but thanks for pointing out my mistake.

His fair is RIDICULOUSLY SLOW!!!!! An air dodge would've got him to the ground while the IC dealt with lag, and at that point there's rolls, dodges, shields, etc....



That was a ****ty R.O.B. and the fact that he can do ANYTHING shows that it's not a combo, because combo's are inescapable.

 

[Yuna]

I rewatched it a couple of times, he tried to start his fair on 2-3 of the hits, you're right.

this means none of his attacks could've stopped it, but he could've air dodged and get a smaller punishment.

doesn't make my argument about other combos existing any less viable though, but thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Some of your arguments are sound and correct. Others are wrong. You've also got a real problem recognizing what combos are guaranteed and what aren't if you can't tell by that video that R.O.B. could've gotten out of it.

Not only is it immediately apparent hitstun ended inbetween each and every single attack from the I.C's, any kind of closer inspection would reveal that R.O.B. didn't DI, didn't Nair/Dair (much faster than his Fair) didn't Up B, didn't Airdodge and tried to Fair (even though it kept failing) between each and every move.

It's not a combo if they can double jump out of it. If it's a combo that relies on them having lost their double jumps first, then state that. But it still isn't a combo if they can Airdodge, Up B, attack or even just DI out of it.

That IC's Combo would've ended after 2-3 hits at the most had the R.O.B. even attempted to DI out of it. And if your Luigi combo is anything like that, then it's not, in any way, a true combo as well.

I can't help but notice that you once again made a huge mistakes but assumed you were right, anyway, despite me pointing out otherwise and declared my post "too stupid to reply to". For future reference, any time someone points something out to you and provides evidence that you can test out, test it out before declaring them wrong.

Let's see, I most often have people, the game, the facts, videos, anecdotal evidence and even scientifically verifiable examples on my side. What do you have?

 

[Twin Dreams]

Let's see, I most often have people, the game, the facts, videos, anecdotal evidence and even scientifically verifiable examples on my side. What do you have?

A resounding ignorance coupled with impenetrable ego?

 

[I.T.P]

Some of your arguments are sound and correct. Others are wrong. You've also got a real problem recognizing what combos are guaranteed and what aren't if you can't tell by that video that R.O.B. could've gotten out of it.

R.O.B could've airdodged, but would have continued to get hit afterwards at some points in that combo, he did try to Nair most of them, and he tried to Fair once, look again.

Not only is it immediately apparent hitstun ended inbetween each and every single attack from the I.C's, any kind of closer inspection would reveal that R.O.B. didn't DI, didn't Nair/Dair (much faster than his Fair) didn't Up B, didn't Airdodge and tried to Fair (even though it kept failing) between each and every move.

Hitstun did end inbetween hits, but the fact is that R.O.B tried to Nair and couldn't, and had he airdodged, he would've been hit while exiting the airdodge.

I do admit it's much more escapable than I thought it was when my friend told me about it, and less impressive, though it still is impressive.

It's not a combo if they can double jump out of it. If it's a combo that relies on them having lost their double jumps first, then state that. But it still isn't a combo if they can Airdodge, Up B, attack or even just DI out of it.

I know that, but if you can punish the airdodge and you know exactly when they can airdodge, then it's still as good a punishment as a true combo though.

That IC's Combo would've ended after 2-3 hits at the most had the R.O.B. even attempted to DI out of it. And if your Luigi combo is anything like that, then it's not, in any way, a true combo as well.

I don't know if the DI would've made as much of a diffrence as you think it would've, especially since the initial knockback was low, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I can't help but notice that you once again made a huge mistakes but assumed you were right, anyway, despite me pointing out otherwise and declared my post "too stupid to reply to". For future reference, any time someone points something out to you and provides evidence that you can test out, test it out before declaring them wrong.

I tend to exaggerate, yes, but I never made "Huge mistakes" and most of my arguments to you in any thread were "refuted" by opinions declared as facts, and repeatedly using the same ones while we're in that matter.

If I am making a point that is testable and was tested by my friend, I tend to believe him, in this case we were wrong, and I noticed it and I admit it. it doesn't mean other combos don't work.

Let's see, I most often have people, the game, the facts, videos, anecdotal evidence and even scientifically verifiable examples on my side. What do you have?

actually, no you don't, mostly you consider your own opinions as facts, you give absurdly specific examples and claim them as the ultimate truth and law, I've yet to see you post a video evidence of anything you said, and your "anecdotal evidence" and "scientifically provable" statements are mostly just claims that you expect me to list specific examples against, which there are too many for me to start listing in many cases.

but I'll admit the post I just quoted was a major improvement towards actually listening to what the other side says when you debate, instead of dimissing them, misreading them, and stating opinions as facts like you usually do.



about the combos I mentioned, I had void test some more, and while some points are airdodgeable, the resulting position is easily punishable, and allows you to continue the punishment, so while it is a string and not a combo, it's basically the same effect.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Yuna always brings too many arguments.