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Coming Right Back At Ya: Kirby for Smash Switch discussion

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Just let some of the players reply to this thread to announce their intentions. It would be easier to know this way
 
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Any updates for our favorite pink gumball? Who’s attending EVO or just buffs/nerfs in general?
 
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Kewkky said:
No buffs or nerfs. :(
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Well, better than getting all nerfs. I think that the balance team is simply still analyzing on what to buff/nerf. After all, they have to take a look at 70+ characters. Also Kirby is obviously doing better compared to, say, the first three months of the game. His results are gradually improving, and I hope the pace stays like this. There’s no “bottom tier” or “garbage” characters. The only characters that would qualify for such titles are fighters like :falcon::link2::jigglypuff:.
 
Kewkky

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Sadly, I consider Kirby to be bottom tier. Small hurtbox, light weight, no disjoints, no projectiles, slow in the air, slow in the ground, short range overall...
 
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Also I found RK playing as Kirb at EVo and got 129th. Still a very impressive placing by standards (same placing as Fatality).

I dunno about CakeAssault (beat a Pali at pools) but we’re there any other Kirbies participating?

Samurai C said:
that’s that same crap everyone says. A small hurtbox is a good thing, pichu is light and no ones complains about that, his ground speed is fine and works well for the character, his air speed is slow but that’s fair and isn’t needed anyways. He is a rush down so if he had projectiles and a faster airspeed he would be unbalanced. I’m not saying Kirby doesn’t need buffs but it seems you don’t know exactly how he struggles.
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He’s pretty susceptible to disjointed characters like Chrom as range is an issue indeed. Also some characters like Pichu and Link also have projectiles but it’s not as bad since Kirby can get in easier (Show a little but not that much respect on bombs and Pichu has thunder jolt that’s a bit hard to connect and damages itself)
 
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Samurai C said:
that’s that same crap everyone says. A small hurtbox is a good thing, pichu is light and no ones complains about that, his ground speed is fine and works well for the character, his air speed is slow but that’s fair and isn’t needed anyways. He is a rush down so if he had projectiles and a faster airspeed he would be unbalanced. I’m not saying Kirby doesn’t need buffs but it seems you don’t know exactly how he struggles.
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I play the game competitively offline, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Been playing Smash for ovee 10 years, and I've been good enough to be power-ranked high in other Smash games in my (old) region + win tournaments. I may not play as much as you guys, but I don't go 0-0 in Ultimate and only really ever lose to the power-ranked players in my (current) region.

Small hurtbox = small grab range and small range on his attacks, since he has almost no disjoints (sideB and upB are his only disjointed attacks, and are the literal worst as approach options, with upB only really being useful as a situational spacer).

Slow speed = completely messes with him being a rushdown character. Since more than half the cast is faster than him, they can outspace him with their disjoints. A player who knows how to play their character right will know how to camp out Kirby, or zone him out with their swords. No sane person will approach without spacing their disjointed attack. Rushdown characters have to be fast in order to punish their opponents, and Kirby isn't. I agree that his ground speed is fine, but ONLY if his air speed is faster to compensate for it (like Wario, Jigglypuff, etc).

Maybe everyone says the same crap because everyone's arrived at the same conclusion? Kirby is bad; he has a lot of downsides. There's a reason why he's always near the bottom of everyone's lists. Fast characters with disjoints eat him alive when played by actually good players, just as much as characters with good camping games. It's almost always an uphill battle against them, and it all comes down to baiting and punishing, something you don't measure a charavter's worth with as it is a player-derived skill. I'm sure RK would agree.
 
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While he is a bottom tier, he isn’t completely overwhelmed by his weaknesses. His flaws are notable, but I still like to think of his edgeguarding for his down air and back air. Final Cutter and Inhale cheeses are for flash moves. Recovery isn’t good but it’s far-reaching assuming you didn’t blow all his jumps. Also Crouch (Lol poor Wii Fit) and one of the most easy-to-use combos in the game (The Forward throw->Forward air or Up tilt -> down air). Inhale potentially can change the game depending the matchup (Olimar, Shulk, Samus) and feels like should get more attention than deserves

All right why isn’t Ganon in the bottom of tier lists? Doesn’t he have a short grab range for his size? Doesn’t he have a slower airspeed than Kirby? He definitely has more power and can destroy you if you’re not careful but I don’t get why he isn’t commonly agreed to be a bottom tier. I consider him a definite bottom tier and one of the worst characters in the game.

You’re right, he’s not good but he’s definitely NOT trash. Most of his previously poor matchups are way easier in Ultimate, even if they’re still not as good (Sonic, Bayonetta, Donkey Kong)
 
BitBitio

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Why does our boi get no buffs? 3.1.0, the biggest balance patch so far for Ultimate? Nothing. 4.0.0? Nothing. 5.0.0? Nothing. Updates 2.0.0 and 3.0.0 did buff him but they were small compared to what characters like Mewtwo, Mii Brawler, Rosalina, and Ken have gotten. I really wish they would just buff him.
 
boysilver400

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This is the closest game out of the past few to be balanced, but there’s still so much bs in this game, good and bad. 5.0 feels lazy to me because of this. Kirby isn’t the only character with issues after all.

Edit: also casual play isn’t balanced either lmfao. Characters like Ganon and K Rool dominate and characters like Skeik and Jigglypuff are unplayable. This just tells me that they don’t have a clue what’s going on in this game, casual or not.
 
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K. Rool = nowhere near as dominant in Elite now. You’ll still see Dededes and Ganons lurking around with their meaty hits and endurance.

Kirby is a mid-high/high tier in casual play. Relatively easy to learn and has some traits to make it an actual threat.

I thought this was a social thread not viability lol
 
boysilver400

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Convince me that Kirby isn’t actually worse than he was in smash 4. Months ago I would’ve agreed but now I’m not seeing it.
 
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Better Dash Attack (Better punishing option/can kill at high percents)
F-tilt can kill now (Again can kill at high percents)
Jab can improve for setups
Improved speed (slightly)
Fsmash improved
Projectile nerfs/weakening rage benefit Kirby’s endurance
Copy ability cannot be lost as easily any more
Grounded kit more useful

Also has:
Good edgeguarding
Great bair
Good kill potential
Still has a good combo game even with the platform issues
 
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BitBitio

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boysilver400 said:
Convince me that Kirby isn’t actually worse than he was in smash 4. Months ago I would’ve agreed but now I’m not seeing it.
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He’s definitely better. The problem is that the rest of the cast got better too, so relative to the cast he’s worse.
 
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Quick update: Jesuischoq is going to VCA Vienna Challengers Arena 2019, a C-tier!
Coming up in November 23-24th! Wish him fantastic luck :D
And Komota will be going to next year's Frostbite!
 
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The tournament data thread for October feels it should be done.
 
BitBitio

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BUFFS CONFIRMED! Version 6.0.0 just barely launched... As I was looking through the balance changes, I saw our boi! He has a faster jab, nair, up air (which is also stronger) and inhale is faster too!
 
Kewkky

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Sad thing is that i've never had an issue with the speed of those attacks, minus inhale. :laugh: I still used nair just fine in combos, with me being able to reach my opponent in time being the deciding factor of whether I can continue a combo or not (cough air speed buff needed cough).

Maybe someday they'll say improved grab speed or range, or improved air speed. Who knows?
 
Ryu Myuutsu

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Notes also say "Made it harder to disrupt Kirby's Copy Ability". What does this mean exactly?

Does it mean that love taps will cause Kirby to lose his ability less often?
 
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BitBitio

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I’m guessing that they’re making it so that he loses his ability less often from getting hit.
Edit: Ok. His jab is frame 2 now, his nair and up air frame 8, and his up smash, nair, and up air are all stronger.
 
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R O F L

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Kirby buffs are nice. Not really anything spectacular combo wise, just some lower-percent weak hit nair combos.

What really stands out is his nair power buff. Holy cow, that thing is as powerful as Meta Knight's nair now.
Kirby is going to have an easier time playing against worse recovery characters now, nair can edge-guard beautifully and can easily wall someone out off-stage at even mid-percents.
 
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The_Bookworm said:
Do you guys remember :ultkirby:'s forward throw underneath Battlefield and PS1 issues?

Well with the newly buffed (and lowkey ridiculously good now) neutral air...


Other new Kirby stuff is also being found, such as true combo confirms into Inhale thanks to its reduced startup.
Edit: Here is footage of this:

His Inhale is now as fast as Wario's Chomp.

Edit 2: Apparently, SGK says that up air landing is now safe. Geez, this character got actual love in this patch.
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Besides nair, Uair (along with the aforementioned aerial) grants higher knockback and can kill at...100% near the ledge? Up smash’s sourspots have higher knockback. I think it’s around the same power, if not more than Mario’s (sweet spot of course).

Also the f-throw issue is alleviated, though not completely fixed. Kirby still goes into the platform, but now can follow up with nair/uair->ftilt/fsmash. Not only fight in platform stages much better, but it gives him a second Gonzo combo to work with, even if the effect isn’t to the same degree.
I think RK even tweeted about how Inhale can finally be a good OOS option (minus projectiles and the opponents behind you). With another buff to copy abilities being harder to lose, I suppose there’s less to worry about a sword snatching his deserved prize.

Scouring some tweets and posts, some people believe that he can get out of the “bottom 10” spots. I see Kirby as the clean winner, as not only a crippling issue was fixed, he can fight in more stages and got more power/combos in return.
 
Ryu Myuutsu

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BuffKirby said:
Besides nair, Uair (along with the aforementioned aerial) grants higher knockback and can kill at...100% near the ledge? Up smash’s sourspots have higher knockback. I think it’s around the same power, if not more than Mario’s (sweet spot of course).

Also the f-throw issue is alleviated, though not completely fixed. Kirby still goes into the platform, but now can follow up with nair/uair->ftilt/fsmash. Not only fight in platform stages much better, but it gives him a second Gonzo combo to work with, even if the effect isn’t to the same degree.
I think RK even tweeted about how Inhale can finally be a good OOS option (minus projectiles and the opponents behind you). With another buff to copy abilities being harder to lose, I suppose there’s less to worry about a sword snatching his deserved prize.

Scouring some tweets and posts, some people believe that he can get out of the “bottom 10” spots. I see Kirby as the clean winner, as not only a crippling issue was fixed, he can fight in more stages and got more power/combos in return.
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Inhale buffs make me very happy. I'm a huge advocate for incorporating copy abilities into Kirby's playstyle. which I felt is an aspect that is overlooked. Now that he has an easier time sucking up opponents and not losing his ability as often, I can't wait to try out the new Kirby.
 
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