Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Cheryl~]

Three major tournaments have wrapped up this weekend, possibly the most majors we've had happening at once in a very long time. Not only that, but there were a couple of decently stacked B tiers that occurred like The Roundtable 3 with Syrup taking it over Light and Tweek and a tournament in Qatar (forgot the name lol) that had Zomba take it over Neo, Cosmos, and Sisqui with no sets dropped. Here are the top 8s of the A tiers that happened:

Sumabato SP 56 (A+ tier):
1st: Raru
2nd: yone_pi
3rd: Jagabata
4th: Shirayuki
5th: Mild na H.O.
5th: Kuhaku
7th: Leaf
7th: shion

Grand Slum 17 (A tier)
1st: Masha
2nd: Toriguri
3rd: Rarikkusu
4th: Tsubaki
5th: Carmelo
5th: shion
7th: Te-sHi
7th: yone_pi

Gamescom LAN x GCN Open (A tier):
1st: crepe salee
2nd: Supahsemmie
3rd: MKBigBoss
4th: Sparg0
5th: Glutonny
5th: Susu
7th: Tarik
7th: Oryon

All three of these were pretty crazy upset-wise, especially the Japanese ones. Raru winning Sumabato as the 1st seed may not be a surprise, but he had to claw his way there after being sent to losers early by Jagabata on his killer winners run to Winners Finals. Raru fought from 17th place all the way to 1st, taking the runback on Jagabata as well with Luigi after his Min Min kept faltering. Grand Slum was pretty nutty after top 8 started, with Masha and Toriguri taking the top 2 seeds, Rarikkusu and Carmelo, into losers side, with the eventual winner being Masha! A longtime top player and Brawl veteran winning a major event with Wolf of all characters in 2025 is an amazing storyline (Wolf is good, but probably one of the most powercrept characters I've seen in a game.). And over in Europe, Gamescom had Supahsemmie make a spectacular run, upsetting Sparg0 3-1 in winners side and beating BigBoss twice, only losing to crepe's strong Steve. crepe may have gotten a bit lucky getting to avoid Sparg0 as Sparg0 ended up getting upset by BigBoss in losers, but he did snag another Gluto win under his belt so this was a pretty well-earned major win for him. This was a great event to see the underrated region of Europe really showing their stuff, and a great return to form for Young Link who had been lacking major results for quite a while now. Unfortunately, Sparg0's 2025 season is continuing to sink after his LMBM win. Hopefully he can bounce back in the coming months.

Overall a pretty historic weekend for the game which is impressive this late into its life. Some characters got their highest major placements to date (Duck Hunt 3rd at an A+ tier, Robin making top 8 at all, Donkey Kong getting 5th twice has to be historic, Wolf WINNING a major, Banjo 2nd at a major, Young Link 2nd at a major) which is always nice to see.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Duck Hunt 3rd at an A+ tier

Umm, acktually , Raito got 3rd at EVO Japan 2019, Albion 4, and Umebura SP 7, so tied for the highest placing Duck Hunt at a major.

Granted that all three of these events was all the way back in 2019, so in that case, this is the highest placing Duck Hunt in over 5 years, and the highest placing since the final Ultimate update.

 

[Rizen]

(I didn't want to derail the thread so I didn't keep talking about Japan vs NA).

Three major tournaments have wrapped up this weekend, possibly the most majors we've had happening at once in a very long time. Not only that, but there were a couple of decently stacked B tiers that occurred like The Roundtable 3 with Syrup taking it over Light and Tweek and a tournament in Qatar (forgot the name lol) that had Zomba take it over Neo, Cosmos, and Sisqui with no sets dropped. Here are the top 8s of the A tiers that happened:

Sumabato SP 56 (A+ tier):
1st: Raru
2nd: yone_pi
3rd: Jagabata
4th: Shirayuki
5th: Mild na H.O.
5th: Kuhaku
7th: Leaf
7th: shion

Grand Slum 17 (A tier)
1st: Masha
2nd: Toriguri
3rd: Rarikkusu
4th: Tsubaki
5th: Carmelo
5th: shion
7th: Te-sHi
7th: yone_pi

Gamescom LAN x GCN Open (A tier):
1st: crepe salee
2nd: Supahsemmie
3rd: MKBigBoss
4th: Sparg0
5th: Glutonny
5th: Susu
7th: Tarik
7th: Oryon

All three of these were pretty crazy upset-wise, especially the Japanese ones. Raru winning Sumabato as the 1st seed may not be a surprise, but he had to claw his way there after being sent to losers early by Jagabata on his killer winners run to Winners Finals. Raru fought from 17th place all the way to 1st, taking the runback on Jagabata as well with Luigi after his Min Min kept faltering. Grand Slum was pretty nutty after top 8 started, with Masha and Toriguri taking the top 2 seeds, Rarikkusu and Carmelo, into losers side, with the eventual winner being Masha! A longtime top player and Brawl veteran winning a major event with Wolf of all characters in 2025 is an amazing storyline (Wolf is good, but probably one of the most powercrept characters I've seen in a game.). And over in Europe, Gamescom had Supahsemmie make a spectacular run, upsetting Sparg0 3-1 in winners side and beating BigBoss twice, only losing to crepe's strong Steve. crepe may have gotten a bit lucky getting to avoid Sparg0 as Sparg0 ended up getting upset by BigBoss in losers, but he did snag another Gluto win under his belt so this was a pretty well-earned major win for him. This was a great event to see the underrated region of Europe really showing their stuff, and a great return to form for Young Link who had been lacking major results for quite a while now. Unfortunately, Sparg0's 2025 season is continuing to sink after his LMBM win. Hopefully he can bounce back in the coming months.

Overall a pretty historic weekend for the game which is impressive this late into its life. Some characters got their highest major placements to date (Duck Hunt 3rd at an A+ tier, Robin making top 8 at all, Donkey Kong getting 5th twice has to be historic, Wolf WINNING a major, Banjo 2nd at a major, Young Link 2nd at a major) which is always nice to see.

Did Supahsemmie beat Spargo with ? That's pretty amazing considering Cloud is one of YL's worst MUs.

 

[Cheryl~]

(I didn't want to derail the thread so I didn't keep talking about Japan vs NA).

Did Supahsemmie beat Spargo with ? That's pretty amazing considering Cloud is one of YL's worst MUs.

Yes, he went solo YL for the entire tournament so it was Young Link-Cloud for that set.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Mid tiers really can do it in this game. Young Link, Pichu, Duck Hunt, Inkling, Donkey Kong, Robin, Banjo are all ranked B- or lower (except Young Link who is B+). Jagabata vs Raru was game 5 in losers too, had he won then either a Pichu or a Duck Hunt player would've won an A+ tier!

shion's season is looking pretty good so far. 3rd at Sumabato SP 54, 7th at Sumabato SP 56, and 5th at Grand Slum 17. Are we looking at another Hero main in top 50? It's looking pretty likely right now, although this is supposed to be a full year season (unless Smash 6 cuts it short, I suppose), so still a long way to go before the season is over. He also got 2nd at KOWLOON 14, a superregional, with a win on Hurt (in Grand Finals) and Raru (losers finals).

Also, feels like it's been quite a while since a Wolf won a major, eh (though, admirabla, barely a major by LumiRank standards, but still a major)? Masha went from ranked 116th in the world in LumiRank 2024 Season 1 to... Whatever he'll be at the end of this season (obviously better than 116th, hah).

It looks like the next major will be Cavalier Clash 6 on Saturday/Sunday with some notable players such as Sparg0, Light, Dabuz, ShinyMark, Pocket (Onin), Glutonny, Syrup, Wrath, Kola, Jahzz0, Quandale Dinglelingleton, Jakal, Mr. E, omega, Tarik, and Candle. And on Sunday the B+ tier Luminosity Madness will feature players such as Sonix, Tweek, Mew2King, MkLeo, ESAM, Cosmos, MuteAce, VoiD, Maister, MVD, ChunkyKong, Goblin, NickRiddle, Lui$, JMafia, and loaf.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

SchuStats posted the all-time rankings thus far using his own algorithm, and the top 100 was revealed yesterday

Leo is still the GOAT and by a heavy margin. But I guess what's most noteworthy is the character representation. In terms of characters in the top 25, there are two Joker's, two Steve's, two Sonic's, two G&W's, 1 R.O.B, 1 Snake and 1 Aegis (main) in the top 25 all time. These are multiple characters that have been in the consideration for best/top 5 in the game, and representation for all of them isn't even that high. Compared to and where there was 5 Bayo's and 3 Cloud's in the top 20 for the PGR 100 and Ultimate paints a very different picture compared to Smash 4. Ultimate is pretty well balanced overall, even if some aspects of Steve are absurd like planking.

 

[Frihetsanka]

1 Aegis (main) in the top 25 all time

Might be worth noting that Cosmos got some of his best results with Inkling and his #11 in the world* on PGRU Spring 2019 was with Inkling. Without his Inkling results in early Ultimate I don't think he'd be top 40. Sparg0 did better than Cosmos back when Sparg0 was maining Aegis.

*Though in retrospect the PGRU was probably heavily biased against Japan and towards the US, with only 12 Japanese players in top 50 and 33 US players, and 2 European and 1 Mexican players at the time, and 2 Canadian), and only 2 Japanese players in top 10, compared to now with 26 Japanese players in top 50, 14 US, 2 European, 5 Mexican, 1 Sonix, 1 ShinyMark, 1 Riddles).

 

[Rizen]

I often think the loser's run of a tournament is far more impressive than the winner's run. I've been watching Genesis X2 and Zomba beat Spargo, Miya and Shuton- only losing to Acola. Damn. Zomba, Hurt and Tweek did not like their placements on the last Lumirank and have been showing up!

This brings up a point I've made before. I think Tweek would benefit with a better secondary than Sephiroth and Light is seriously disadvantaged by not having a secondary period. IMO Light is carrying Fox but Fox has several bad MUs vs lower ranked characters. I've especially noticed Fox struggles vs characters with greater reward for their close quarter combat than him. Light lost to Asimo's Ryu and in Genesis, Luugi's Luigi (not to mention Steve). These look like bad MUs. Even Miya uses Steve every so often and he plays G&W. I think everyone benefits from secondaries frankly.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I think most people are better off just focusing on their main and not having a secondary. If you can't do it with your best character, chances are you're not going to do it with a worse character either, and the time you spent practicing that secondary might've been better used practicing your main. I don't think Light Cloud would've done much better versus Susu and Syrup anyways (Syrup beat Sparg0's Cloud, and Susu beat Kola's Cloud that one game. Light would have to put in some serious time into a secondary at this point in order for it to be useful versus strong players, and even then he might be better off just going Fox.

I would say the main argument for playing a secondary is because you find it fun. Fun can be important for motivation, and if picking up a secondary makes you have more fun with the game that can help you play more and improve faster thanks to that.

At the top level, it seems to me that over time top players have moved away from secondaries, using them only sparingly. There are exceptions (such as Shuton and BeastModePaul) but even then they've been sticking with their respective mains more lately. The slight MU advantages you get from swapping around generally isn't worth the time investment to keep two characters fresh and the lost practice time that you could've used with your main.

Many of the successful secondaries are characters they used to main, such as Syrup's Ness, Sparg0's Aegis, Shuton's Aegis.

At a local level, I've noticed a good amount of people who I think would do better if they focused on one character instead of playing 2-3 different characters (but they're playing multiple characters for fun and that's fine, enjoying the game is important too). The best players at locals often seem to focus on one character (and then in some scenes the #1 is so much better than the rest that they can win with like, 5-6 different characters, hah).

So... Should top players pick up secondaries at this point in the game? Probably not. I don't see Light doing better vs Miya or other bracket threats with a Cloud or Aegis instead of his Fox. What about non-top players who compete at locals, should they pick up a secondary? They could, if they have more fun playing the game that way, but from a competitive point of view I'd say it's generally better to focus on one character.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Light playing Cloud would be interesting to see though! I suppose I generally agree with you but I think there are exceptions. A player like Tweek who seems to have an easier time than most picking up characters should benefit using a secondary vs Steve. But the fact that he still does not have one disproves that, perhaps. I dunno.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Kagaribi 13 has become the most stacked Smash Bros. event of all-time, having over 19,000 points on the LumiRank TTS, having 47/50 players attending (same as 2GGC: Civil War) and being a SP tier (Superpremier Tier) by LumiRank.

Kagaribi#13

Kagaribi#13 is an Ultimate supermajor that will be held on May 4-5, 2025 in Saitama, Japan. This will be the most prestigious Ultimate event to date, featuring 47 of the Lumirank 2024.2 top 50, tying 2GGC: Civil War for the highest number of top 50 players present at any single Smash event.

liquipedia.net

 

[Rizen]

I just watched Light's Fox lose to Syrup's Steve in grand finals twice; Cavalier Clash 6 and The Round Table 3. I stand by what I said; it's a meta where you really need counterpick characters against several of the top tiers. If you don't have a good answer to Steve you're not going to win tournaments and Fox is not a good answer to Steve. That MU looks horrible. Because Fox's extreme fall speed, Steve can "walk the dog" and jab him across the stage and follow up with a Fair or Dsmash then gimp him with blocks. It reminds me of Brawl when Dedede could Dthrow chain grab you across the stage. Fox is put at a disadvantage when trying to stop Steve's planking. And of course all the other Steve jank; it's hard to lose a MU when you get 60% off a safe f6 Utilt and kill at 90% off any number of safe options including a projectile command grab that combos into a f8 Usmash (why is Steve so over-tuned?). Steve is a lot of characters' worst MU. Much of the cast can't handle him.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I doubt there are any realistic secondaries for Light that can counter-pick both Steve and G&W. I don't think Steve loses MUs, and even if he does it would likely only be to very specific playstyles (like timeout Sonic), something Light isn't going to do. Susu recently posted a MU chart for Steve, where Steve wins every MU in the game except for one, Snake. But I imagine picking up a Snake secondary won't be easy, and chances are the strong Steve players will beat Light's secondary Snake.

Based on Susu's MU chart, the best characters against Steve are Snake, Min Min, Samus, Link, Wario, Lucas, ROB, Bayonetta, Byleth. All of them still lose to Steve (except Snake who wins), but they don't lose as hard as the rest. He also has a bunch of other characters that lose to Steve but not quite as hard.

Is it worth it to spend time to turn a -2 MU with your main into a -1 MU with a secondary? Probably not. Maybe it's worth it to pick up Snake if that MU really is winning, although I'm a bit doubtful myself (Hurt has it as even, ApolloKage as +1 for Snake).

And for Light he'd ideally want someone who does well vs both G&W and Steve. Well... That's not Snake. G&W is generally considered one of Snake's worst MUs so a Snake secondary for Light doesn't seem like a great idea.

What about a Min Min secondary vs Steve? If I remember correctly Dabuz tried a Min Min secondary and eventually went back to use going Rosalina vs Steve. I also don't think it's really worth the time investment to learn such an odd character for Light. What about Zero Suit Samus? Well... Maybe. Probably a better option as a secondary than most. Aegis and Cloud might work decently as well (though I doubt either of them beat Steve). Still, that's time spent practicing those characters that could've been used to push his Fox again, and Light has beaten Steve and G&W players before. Would Miya lose to Light's Aegis-secondary? I'm somewhat doubtful.

Here is Susu's MU chart:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Rizen]

I heard Sonix said Sonic has no losing MUs. He seems like he'd fit Light's playstyle. And of course, you can't get a better secondary than Steve. Obviously the worse your main is, the more you need a secondary. I think Fox is overrated and Light carries him further than the character could usually go. He's very good for sure but probably has a big handful of bad MUs across the board. Fox looks invincible when he's playing well but because he has the fastest fall speed in the game, an exploitable yet long recovery, and he's the fifth lightest character he can get blown up just as easily. IMO Fox is upper high tier but not top tier.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I don't think Sonic would fit Light's playstyle, Sonic is a fairly defensive and campy character, Light is more of a rushdown player. I also don't see him picking up a Steve secondary for similar reasons (and pride). Also, it's not like it's easy to pick up Steve, it's not, it takes a while, and during that time you're nerfing yourself until the Steve is at a high level. For Light the cost of picking up Steve would likely be too costly.

Time investment is a major factor when picking up a secondary. For that reason I think G&W would generally be a better pick than Steve, although Light picking up G&W for Miya doesn't seem like a good idea...

If picking up a secondary in Ultimate was really so beneficial then I believe more top players would've done so, yet many seem to prefer focusing on one character. If we look at what top players are doing, then we see that most tend towards solo maining over time (or using a former main as a secondary). Even Tweek, who has traditionally played multiple characters, has been almost exclusively focused on Diddy Kong as of late.

Generally speaking, I think if you want to pick up a secondary you should probably treat them as if they were your main for a while so you can get really good to them, and you should also really like playing them. I don't recommend picking up a character just because it's strong or a good fit vs what you're struggling versus, then it's likely going to be a struggle to actually practice them. This is one of the reasons I don't see Light picking up Sonic or Steve, I don't think he'd want to play those characters.

 

[Rizen]

I don't think Sonic would fit Light's playstyle, Sonic is a fairly defensive and campy character, Light is more of a rushdown player. I also don't see him picking up a Steve secondary for similar reasons (and pride). Also, it's not like it's easy to pick up Steve, it's not, it takes a while, and during that time you're nerfing yourself until the Steve is at a high level. For Light the cost of picking up Steve would likely be too costly.

Time investment is a major factor when picking up a secondary. For that reason I think G&W would generally be a better pick than Steve, although Light picking up G&W for Miya doesn't seem like a good idea...

If picking up a secondary in Ultimate was really so beneficial then I believe more top players would've done so, yet many seem to prefer focusing on one character. If we look at what top players are doing, then we see that most tend towards solo maining over time (or using a former main as a secondary). Even Tweek, who has traditionally played multiple characters, has been almost exclusively focused on Diddy Kong as of late.

Generally speaking, I think if you want to pick up a secondary you should probably treat them as if they were your main for a while so you can get really good to them, and you should also really like playing them. I don't recommend picking up a character just because it's strong or a good fit vs what you're struggling versus, then it's likely going to be a struggle to actually practice them. This is one of the reasons I don't see Light picking up Sonic or Steve, I don't think he'd want to play those characters.

A lot of top players have secondaries. Miya has Steve, Acola has Aegis, Shuton has Aegis, MKLeo has Byleth, Tweek has Sephiroth, Syrup has Ness... You're under the impression that picking up a secondary will make your main worse; it doesn't. For a while I was going solo Young Link and running into road blocks all the time. Skill can overcome bad MUs but it's still an uphill battle. Then I picked up Wolf for YL's bad MUs and started going 3-2. Granted Young Link is a considerably worse character than Fox but it's never a bad idea to have a pocket for bad MUs. Especially in this meta. One of the best ways to learn a MU is to pick up that character yourself and get a different perspective on them.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I've already mentioned that many of the successful secondaries are former mains, and four of the ones you mentioned (Shuton, MkLeo, Tweek, and Syrup) would qualify as that. Miya generally seems to stick with G&W, acola generally seems to stick with Steve regardless. I would consider Miya mostly a solo main regardless, he rarely brings out the Steve unless it's at a weekly or something.

The main issue is that you split your practice. If picking up a secondary really were as good as some people are making it out to be then more top players would be doing it, but they're not. The trend has rather been the opposite: KEN seems to be focusing more on Sonic than Sephiroth, Tweek has been focusing more on Diddy Kong and rarely brings out Sephiroth these days, even MkLeo, a player known for playing multiple characters, has been focusing mostly on Joker lately.

It's hard to say for sure what would've happened if a player hadn't picked up a secondary. It's pretty clear that using a secondary is doable, since a good amount of top players do it. It's also clear that solo maining is doable, since even more top players are doing that.

The idea that "People would do better if they played multiple characters instead of focusing on one" has been pushed since Ultimate was released, although it seems to me that it's still unproven, and the trends at top levels seem to be moving away from playing multiple characters rather than players playing more characters. The top 20 on the most recent LumiRank had 14 players who I would consider largely solo mains, and then Sparg0, Shuton, MkLeo, Syrup, Snow, and Kola (I can't say I've seen Snow's Aegis much so it might just be 5). And even those 5 have been focusing more on 1 character in general lately (Sparg0 is going mostly Cloud lately, with some Aegis here and there, Shuton is leaning more heavily towards Olimar and the Aegis doesn't come out as much, MkLeo has been going more Joker, Syrup is mostly Steve now, and Kola is mostly Roy now). Oh, and those secondaries are former mains. Notably Tweek was listed as a solo Diddy for LumiRank 2024.2, he's barely using Sephiroth these days.

It seems to me that, generally speaking, at top level, not having a secondary is better than having a secondary. And it also seems that those that are successful with secondaries long term often use their former mains as secondaries. Even then top players are moving away from using their secondaries often and they mostly stick to their main.

I don't think players like SHADIC, Lima, Glutonny, Hurt, Doramigi, Sonix, Light, or Raru would benefit much from using a secondary. Surely they've all considered it at some point, and ultimately decided that they would rather stick with their main (although it's entirely possible that the reason is they just find it more fun, we can't draw the conclusion that every top player is trying to maximize their chances of winning with every decision, if they were I imagine we'd see way more Steve and Sonic players).

Interestingly enough, crêpe salée is listed as playing four characters (Steve, Wario, ROB, and G&W), yet I only seem to catch him playing Steve these days, and I don't think he'd benefit from spending more time on his other characters.

If someone wants to play multiple characters because they find that fun that's totally fair, but I don't think it's really necessary (though it might depend on the situation, if you have -3 MUs in your scene picking up a secondary might be worth it). There are pros and cons of picking up a secondary in general but I think it's a bit overrated, solo maining is probably often preferable from a "I want to improve and win fast" point of view (whether it's better from a "I want to have fun" is highly subjective though).

At a non-top level local level I think picking up a secondary can be a quick fix, but long term you might be better off improving your main. Either way I think it's fine to have a secondary if you want to, but I remain unconvinced that it is the optimal course of action for most people. My own (anecdotal) experience from locals is that people who focus on one character often tend to be more consistent and improve faster than those who juggle multiple, and from looking at what top players do it does seem like solo maining is generally the stronger option. That being said, for the vast majority of people having fun is far more important than getting better results, so if you find it more fun to play multiple characters you should probably do that, and if you find it more fun to solo main you should probably do that.

 

[Rizen]

The idea that "People would do better if they played multiple characters instead of focusing on one" has been pushed since Ultimate was released, although it seems to me that it's still unproven, and the trends at top levels seem to be moving away from playing multiple characters rather than players playing more characters.

This is not true. There are countless examples of people doing better after picking up different characters. As much as I hate to say it, it matters who you play. Look at Syrup: with Ness he wasn't even a top player. Then he picked up Steve and now he's seeded higher than Light and Tweek. He's not better than Light and Tweek but he's beating them because he plays a character with good MUs vs their characters. ...and the best character in the game, who's broken.

The issue is you're acting like secondaries won't have better MUs than a player's main but that's the whole point of counterpicking. It's simple logic, what are you more likely to win, a -1 MU or a +1 MU? With counterpicking you're acquiring better tools for the match. Sure, if you're playing Sonic or Steve you can probably get away without a secondary- (however Acola used Aegis to beat Spargo's Cloud and Syrup used Ness to beat his Cloud. Sometimes it's valuable to mix things up even if you're playing the best character.) For everyone else you have 2 options when solo-maining: be considerably better than everyone else or get good bracket luck. Both of these are not consistent ways to win. It's a counterpick meta even though counterpicking is woefully underdeveloped. The sad truth is character choice is holding a lot of players back.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I would say there's a difference between swapping character (like going from a low tier or a mid tier to a top tier) and picking up a secondary. Changing to a different character is likely to worsen your results in the short term, but it might pay off in the long term (such as with many players swapping to Steve). Sometimes changing your main pays off (like with Syrup), sometimes it does not.

It's simple logic, what are you more likely to win, a -1 MU or a +1 MU?

You're probably better off playing a character you're really good at with a -1 MU than a character you're only somewhat good at with a +1 MU. MUs do matter to some extent, but not nearly as much as people think. We see strong players overcome -2 MUs frequently, although it does make things more difficult of course if you run into a bunch of -2 MUs.

Acola's Aegis is an interesting case. Personally I don't think he's likely to repeat that success versus Sparg0, he won with it once and he might never do it again (hard to say for sure though). But even if he does, there's still the question if he wouldn't have been better off overall if he had spent that time working on his Steve instead. While acola is the overall #1 Steve in the world his tech skill is not quite as good as it could've been. I would say Susu's tech skill is noticeably better (like his NIL ladders). What if acola had spent more time on Steve and less time on his Aegis secondary? acola with Susu's tech skill level would be such a beat.

The main issue with playing multiple characters is that it splits up your practice time over multiple characters. If your secondary is a former main (like Syrup's Ness or Dabuz's Olimar) that's less of an issue since you don't have to spend much time getting the character to a decent level (although you might still have to spend some time getting the character warmed up). Picking up a brand new character as a secondary, on the other hand? I think most people are generally better off spending that time improving their main. You're probably better off playing your main at 95% capacity than a secondary at 75% capacity. In the short term, you might be able to MU check people with a secondary MU they're not familiar with, but for long term improvement I believe focusing on one character is more beneficial. Solo maining also appears to be more popular in the top 100.

 

[The_Bookworm]

New S tier major dropped: KOWLOON 15 with Sumabato 15th anniversary (617 Entrants)

1st: Asimo
2nd: Raru
3rd: Carmelo
4th: TamaPDaifuku
5th: KEN
5th: Doramigi
7th: Taikei
7th: Mark

9th: Reno
9th: Snow
9th: Toriguri
9th: Kaninabe
13th: Kuhaku
13th: Yone_pi
13th: Karaage
13th: Rarikkusu
17th: Raki
17th: AyaLin
17th: Lv. 1
17th: M0tsunabE
17th: Navy
17th: Nakatae
17th: Ryopei
17th: alice
25th: Shupi
25th: 33Peranbox
25th: Mild na H.O
25th: Furararamen
25th: Gackt
25th: Gorioka
25th: Lapi
25th: kept


I could probably go further and add more placements from 33rd onwards, but I am getting kind of tired of translating Japanese names.
For those who are wondering where Raru's DK comes from: it is literally from winning 1 game vs Snow. XD
But yeah, this is the 2nd ever Ryu major/supermajor win in Smash history since Asimo's win at Sumabato SP 51 last year.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Carmelo's season is really strong right now. 7th at Smash Awesome, an S+ tier (and the tournament worth the second most points this season so far), 5th at Maesuma'TOP 1, another S+ tier, 5th at Grand Slum 17, A tier, and now 3rd at this, another S+ tier. If he keeps it up he could be a strong contender for the second best Steve (and potentially even a top 15 or top 10 player). Syrup's season is winning an A+ tier (Cavalier Clash 6, with some strong wins such as Sparg0, Light, and Glutonny) and 3rd at Luminosity Makes BIG Moves 2025 (the 3rd biggest tournament of the season so far, picking up some very notable wins such as Tweek and Light). He also won two B tiers, although I don't know how much that matters.

Oh, and, unsurprisingly, acola is the #1 Steve, with 3rd at Smash Awesome, 1st at Maesuma'TOP 1, and 2nd at GENESIS X2 (the only Premier of the year so far).

Who is the #4 Steve right now, I wonder? Susu has 4th at Cavalier Clash 6 (A+) and 5th at gamescon LAN x GCN Open (A tier), 17th GSM (A tier), picking up notable wins on Light, Kola, and Jakal at Cavalier Clash 6. Raki has 3rd at Maesuma'TOP 1 (S+), 17th at KOWLOON 15 with Sumabato 15th anniversary (S+), 13th at Sumabato SP 55 (S tier), 9th at Seibugeki 18 (S tier), 9th at Sumabato SP 54 (A tier), but 129th at Smash Awesome (S+). Funnily enough, he had just gone from winning Sumabato SP 53 (A+ tier) into 129th at his next big tournament (the major win was last season though and won't count for this season). I wonder how hard the algorithm will punish him for that 129th place? Aside from that his results are fairly good and I might be tempted to rank him as the 4th best Steve.

Some other notable Steves are Onin/Pocket (9th Cavalier Clash 6, 25th GENESIS X2, 13th Luminosity Makes BIG Moves 2025) and crêpe salée (won a major, gamescon LAN x GCN Open, though it was barely a major by Lumirank standards, 3020 points and cutoff is 3000), 9th at GSM.

I also believe Yamanaction, DDee, 33Peranbox have the potential to do well but they haven't really been performing as well this season thus far (DDee hasn't played at all). I could potentially see Just Blue (17th Luminosity Makes BIG Moves 2025) and/or Haunter pop off as well. And, who knows, maybe we'll see a return of Jake, Quandale Dinglelingleton (DDog), and/or yonni? Soar might also be worth keeping an eye on, although he doesn't seem to travel much. I could also see Many getting some upsets in Mexico (he did get 5th at S Factor 11 back in July 2024, an S+ tier). And hey, maybe a lesser known Steve will pop off and top 8 a major this year? Maybe Antimony, Niyae, DJDon, MazeBeans, Ente, or Artsniff will pull it off, who knows? Maybe Toon travels and gets a sick run?

I just realized we're at a point where I know like 20+ Steve mains where I wouldn't be too surprised if they got top 8 at a major, huh... And many of them already have.

 

[Aaron1997]

Here's something to talk about...

TL;DW: has a very potent and versatile combo structure that, when combined with Hero's Spin, gives the character access to 0 to death combos on the entire cast, starting from easy-to-land attacks such as grab, back/forward/neutral air, and down tilt.

Here is combo doc

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tvspJynVnVgQ-DP0d2Q45qAu27NWGsxwx_oSUmb2Dus/edit?tab=t.0

 

[Garo]

Here's something to talk about...

TL;DW: has a very potent and versatile combo structure that, when combined with Hero's Spin, gives the character access to 0 to death combos on the entire cast, starting from easy-to-land attacks such as grab, back/forward/neutral air, and down tilt.

Here is combo doc

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tvspJynVnVgQ-DP0d2Q45qAu27NWGsxwx_oSUmb2Dus/edit?tab=t.0

The idea that in year 7 of Ultimate a character that's been there from the beginning just suddenly starts 0-to-deathing people is very funny to me.

I don't know if the buffs Hero's Spin received are essential for these combos to work, but if they are, it's doubly funny that they were introduced in the patch that accompanied Steve's release. It's like the hidden terror was hiding another hidden terror or something.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I don't know if the buffs Hero's Spin received are essential for these combos to work, but if they are, it's doubly funny that they were introduced in the patch that accompanied Steve's release. It's like the hidden terror was hiding another hidden terror or something.

The buffs for Hero's Spin in that patch was just to make the move more consistent, so I doubt the patch was essential to make the combos work.
This assessment is, however, extra funny because it means that this was in our face for over 4 years. XD
Time will tell if we will see these Hero's Spin discoveries in a major tournament setting.

 

[Rizen]

I think it's possible this will breath new life into one of the worst characters in the game but it's more likely it will fizzle out and not have much of an impact. The reason I say this is I've seen the same thing happen to Young Link and Swordfighter is kind of a discount YL. YL started out looking really good and people thought he'd get amazing 50%+ combos and be a top tier. But as people got better at the MU he got worse and worse. A big reason for that is his combos got really inconsistent when people learned to DI them. Even YL's bread and butter confirms like Dtilt don't lead to any follow ups half the time. I can see the same thing happening to Swordfighter.

 

[Eremurus]

I think it's possible this will breath new life into one of the worst characters in the game but it's more likely it will fizzle out and not have much of an impact. The reason I say this is I've seen the same thing happen to Young Link and Swordfighter is kind of a discount YL. YL started out looking really good and people thought he'd get amazing 50%+ combos and be a top tier. But as people got better at the MU he got worse and worse. A big reason for that is his combos got really inconsistent when people learned to DI them. Even YL's bread and butter confirms like Dtilt don't lead to any follow ups half the time. I can see the same thing happening to Swordfighter.

DI doesn't matter for the Swordfighter stuff. They're true confirms.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Ok. In my experience characters fall out of aerial Hero's Spin a lot still.