Computer Training

[MasterFeint]

So I'm not really new to Smash, been playing since the first and I'm decent among my friends. I know that playing against the computers is nowhere near the same as playing against a human, but I was wondering a few things:

Can playing against a Lvl 9 or two actually help you get better at all?

If nothing else, do they provide decent pressure for training the 'advenced techniques' like wavedashing and short hopping?

And, probably something thats been discussed in the Link Forums, but didn't know what to search for:

Can Link actually do the backwards wavedash into a ledge grap for edge-gaurding? I haven't been able to get it to work, and I'm thinking his on-ledge defense are better anyway.

Thanks for any help I might get.

 

[Jammer]

Well, I've heard that playing CPUs, especially level 9 CPUs, is detrimental to your performance. Once you figure out the correct strategy, defeating CPUs is easy. Unfortunately, that strategy won't be effective when playing humans.

CPUs are extremely predictable. Edgeguarding a level 9 CPU usually requires charging up a smash attack and releasing it at the correct time. You send them back out, they'll use their up B again, and the process will repeat. This, of course, does not work on humans, but if you do it too much, you may get stuck in a rut.

The main problem with CPUs is that they don't learn from their mistakes. You can use the same strategy or combo over and over again, and they'll always fall for it.

I suppose that if you battle a level 9 CPU while taking special care to not use a cheap anti-CPU tactic, it won't hurt your play. But that will require a lot of concentration from a skilled player. It's not easy to keep yourself from using something that works time after time.

When I battle the computer, I battle level 1 or 8 CPUs. I practice comboing on the level 1s (although they have horrible DI) and I practice my dodging skills and general speed on the level 8s. I don't use level 9s because they're totally unrealistic, powershielding all over the place. The extra difficulty of the level 9s doesn't mean playing against them has a greater benefit to your skill.

Hope that helps. Also, it's what I think, so your mileage my vary.

 

[MasterFeint]

All things I had kind of figured, but can't hurt to get a second opinion from the pros. Thanks for the input, and I'll keep your level 1 and 8 tactics in mind.

 

[Sir James]

Jammer is completely correct. To practice against the computer, I recommend going against level 3 or 4 CPU's. Use them as you would a punching bag. Practice moving into them, comboing, moving away, and moving around them. What's cool is that they'll move around with you (something a punching bag can't do) so you can work on your technique.

This should get you warmed up for your friends. When you go against them, THAT is the time when you go all out with everything you learned. Take risks and see what works and what doesn't work when playing a real player. This is something that a level 9 CPU will never be able to achieve. Playing a level 9 will just force you to do smash attacks that can be seen a mile away just to get the spammy CPU off of your back.

 

[Jammer]

Oh, well I'm definitely not a pro, so you should wait for an opinion from a real smasher. I hardly play anymore--that's what I used to do.

EDIT: In case you're wondering, Sir James kind of snuck in there when I was writing this post.

 

[Best101]

Yes level nines help you, but only to a certain point. As soon as you can start predicting their every move then it's the time to stop because now you will start getting into bad habits (like roll dodging constantly). If you really want to get better you have to play against as many humans as possible and going to a lot of tournaments. If you want to practice by yourself then you would have to train technical skill against level 1s or go to training mode (if you don't need the C-stick). The only downside to training by yourself is that you cannot practice mindgames at all, and that could put at a disadvantage when you're playing someone decently good.

Also any character can wavedash backwards into an edgehog. You just have to get the right distance between you and ledge, and have a decent timing for the wavedash

 

[MasterFeint]

Thanks for your input, I figured I was to close to the edge.

 

[GOTM]

playing CPU's can improve your tech skill, because any play at all improves your tech skill. its only detrimental if you take that same strategy that you are using against them, and bring that into real play...which would actually be terrible.

 

[Jammer]

No such thing as "too close to the edge" when you're wavedashing -> edgehog. Except when you're Luigi, then you can wavedash at mad speeds, and if you hold down, you won't catch the edge. You'll start tumbling in the air. At least I think that's what happens--I haven't played Luigi in a while.

 

[Best101]

No such thing as "too close to the edge" when you're wavedashing -> edgehog. Except when you're Luigi, then you can wavedash at mad speeds, and if you hold down, you won't catch the edge. You'll start tumbling in the air. At least I think that's what happens--I haven't played Luigi in a while.

Well if you are on the edge and try to WD backwards onto it, you'll airdodge down (instead of WD) to your death. Or at least that's what happens to me when I'm close to the edge like that

 

[Pye]

Well if you are on the edge and try to WD backwards onto it, you'll airdodge down (instead of WD) to your death. Or at least that's what happens to me when I'm close to the edge like that

No, that just means you're wavedashing too horizontally. You can always WD to edgehog, no matter how close you are to the edge, given the right WD timing and angle. Granted, it gets pretty difficult to do when you're ON the edge, but it's far from impossible.

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

It's also good if you face CPU's to practice combos. It actually helped me pull off more complex combos on humans.

 

[Best101]

It's also good if you face CPU's to practice combos. It actually helped me pull off more complex combos on humans.

Actually CPUs gets you into habits of pulling of False Combos (a term I made up ). Combos that only work on CPUs, but not likely to work on humans more than once or not at all. So watch what kind of combos you are doing on the computers now.

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

Actually CPUs gets you into habits of pulling of False Combos (a term I made up ). Combos that only work on CPUs, but not likely to work on humans more than once or not at all. So watch what kind of combos you are doing on the computers now.

Well, I use Captain Falcon and alot of the combos that i can do on CPUs are what all captain falcon players can pull off on other humans. Im pretty sure that there are other exceptions, especially if its small combos

 

[Overswarm]

Don't listen to anyone in this thread.

Play level 1 CPUs to practice tech skill and basic combos / grab combos.

If you want the computer to DI a bit, make them level 4 CPUs. They are still stupid, but they DI when hit repeatedly (thus making them harder to combo, like a human).




Computer are punching bags, nothing more. There are no "secrets" to them, no advanced training, nothing at all. They are punching bags.

Play humans when you can, practice combos on level 1 or level 4 CPUs.

 

[Best101]

Don't listen to anyone in this thread.

Play level 1 CPUs to practice tech skill and basic combos / grab combos.

If you want the computer to DI a bit, make them level 4 CPUs. They are still stupid, but they DI when hit repeatedly (thus making them harder to combo, like a human).




Computer are punching bags, nothing more. There are no "secrets" to them, no advanced training, nothing at all. They are punching bags.

Play humans when you can, practice combos on level 1 or level 4 CPUs.

lol you just restated what everyone else said

 

[ꓰspeon]

Don't listen to anyone in this thread.

That means he can't trust you either.

Anyway, if oyu really want to get better at smash, play humans. At least do it before practicing with computers. You must get the feel of what it means to overcome a human opponent, to follow his DIs, to mindgame him to defeat. Then you can play with low lvls and practice your comboes, NOT your approaches or edgeguards.
If you haven't any good opponent near, just watch a lot of videos on teh internetz, try to get the most out of them and hope for the best.

 

[MasterFeint]

Alright, thanks a lot guys. Sso basicly just play humans whenever possible. Joy, I don't really have anyone around here to play with, accept my GF.

Any Smashers in eastern PA?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Play against people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtMsW7ss440
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDsf2FGZM8g

 

[njr1489]

I believe this was my problem the whole time. I play against humans regularly, and to find out that playing against level 9 CPU's is detrimental, i'm going to stop that. I can hit some combos with falcon but when I play a human everything feels out of place. I almost lost a ditto match using my main which is falco. I think I may have trouble with consistency with combos too.