Connecticut Player Finder: We're better than you <3

[Cort]

They're a business, not a school or gaming store with space for rent. They have their own wonderfully awesome setups.

You guys are also forgetting that it's a tournament.

 

[Brookman]

I trust DM, and I consider myself a sort of patron. They do have a business to run, if you don't think that their prices are fair I'm sorry, but no one is forcing you to participate in whatever events they hold for us.

If it were at all possible to hold tournaments for free somewhere I'd be all for that too. But until someone finds a nice venue where we can play for free I don't see a problem with DM.

On a lighter note, I love seeing JV at school. We're gonna definitely get a cube up here and smash our brains out soon.

 

[_V_]

Pretty much every tournament I have been to has had about the same venue fee as Esticle...somewhere around 33% of the pot.

I don't know, it makes sense to me. Like I wouldn't have a venue fee at my house, if I had a tournament, unless it was for food. But they are a store and we are using their equipment/time/making them lose customers by taking up their space.

 

[Aesir]

I trust DM, and I consider myself a sort of patron. They do have a business to run, if you don't think that their prices are fair I'm sorry, but no one is forcing you to participate in whatever events they hold for us.

If it were at all possible to hold tournaments for free somewhere I'd be all for that too. But until someone finds a nice venue where we can play for free I don't see a problem with DM.

On a lighter note, I love seeing JV at school. We're gonna definitely get a cube up here and smash our brains out soon.

Jv goes to mcc? o_O

 

[NusCirtap]

It's still $10 for some of us, I usually don't do singles at esticles anymore and just teams so $10 teams and $10 for entry fee. There are also people who go just to watch and don't even play a single friendly and are forced to pay $10 and that seems unfair. I'd rather it go back to making singles cost $5 more and venue fee $5 less. $5 venue fee I guess is necessary because there are people there who just play friendlies. But a free place would be better despite it not being a esticle anymore.

 

[Brookman]

I love rolling. Everyone should do it more often.


kekekekeke

 

[Cort]

They aren't going to patrol around and make sure people aren't playing friendlies if they didn't pay the venue fee. You're in their store during an event.

And paying 10 dollars to enter 1 event and play friendlies all day is what DM owners frown upon, because they are the ones getting ripped off while trying to run a business.

The only reason they instituted this venue fee was to [legally] make profit from a venue fee. In Connecticut it's illegal for venue owners to take ANY money out of a tournament pot. They must instead use venue fees.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

They're a business, not a school or gaming store with space for rent. They have their own wonderfully awesome setups.

A gaming store isn't a business?

I guess I would rather have them take $$ from the pot rather than charging everyone an entrance fee, since 90% of people that enter the tournies aren't going to make $$ from it.

EDIT: lol I didn't see Cort's post... didn't know that was illegal in CT. weird?

 

[Cort]

Gaming stores usually just rent space. They don't have their own setups.

This is a LAN center with awesome setups. They're letting us use them.

 

[NusCirtap]

I understand, but it is still unfair to those few that actually don't play friendlies at all. I know they can't monitor but there are a few of us who only watch and $10 for loitering is kinda poopy. I also only do teams and leave right after, I think I did like 4-5 friendlies last time. lol But I can see other people just playing friendlies forever and understand why. I still think it should be back to the higher singles price and lower venue price. I didn't know it was illegal to take it out of the pot, didn't they just do that before?

 

[Budai578]

Pretty much every tournament I have been to has had about the same venue fee as Esticle...somewhere around 33% of the pot.

Technically 33% of the pot (entry fee per person who is participating in both events) is $6.67. The DM venue fee is 50% of the entry fee per person, or 100% for those only doing 1 event.

Summary for TL:DR/Wall of Text - venue fee is high for those who don't play all day and participate in both events. Suggestion: make a graduated/stepped venue fee - small base fee for entering the venue, then a small fee per event you participate in.

I agree with Nus that this is definitely high for those people who are just there to watch/hang out with friends and maybe play a few friendlies... also for those just doing 1 event.

Last esticle there were ~85 people with 12 setups, meaning that there can be 24-48 people playing at once. I know $10 for the entire day is not as much as one would normally pay, but considering that technically there are only ~36 (40% or less) people playing compared to 85+ and that most people don't stay the entire day (sometimes only a few hours), then you may not get what you pay for for $10. As far as I can tell we give them a lot of business that they may not normally get for that one day when all things are considered.

I don't mean to knock DM since I like the place and the staff, and I'm all for supporting small business (especially gaming related ones), but I also feel that the patrons should be treated fairly and be able to pay for what they want specifically.

On that note, one solution could be to have a small venue fee (~$3) to participate in the tournament in any way (even spectating and friendlies). Then pay an add-on fee per event you take part in (~$2 per event). This way, those who are just watching/friendlying may not mind paying the venue fee since it's not much. Also, people who are actually doing the tourney events pay a portion of their entry fee which is standard in most tourneys.

I'll probably end up paying whatever the fees are for the next esticle anyway, since I'll be working full-time soon and will have a steady income (and I like playing and hanging out with everyone). However, I know a lot of people would be less inclined to pay all the fees and whatnot (I know I was quite frugal in high school and college).

After the cost of the last tournament, I considered not going to the next one if it was the same price. Like I said above, I'll probably go anyway and pay whatever, but I'm sure other people have felt the same way and may end up passing.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Staggered venue fees sounds like a great idea.

The thing is, $5 x 70 people = $350. Which is a pretty good take for having a ton of people being exposed to your business, possibly buying things therein, telling their friends about the business, and coming back to spend more $$ there. It's actually GOOD for DM to have tournies there because they get more exposure.

 

[Cort]

Though I suppose I'm biased since I usually make money from these events anyway, to me it sounds like you guys are still the minority when it comes to the specifics of what your $10 venue fee is actually going towards.

The fee is a flat rate and I doubt the owners will have special situations for people leaving early and whatnot. It's not the venue's fault if you're not using the time you spend in the venue playing the entire time. You're not paying the venue to play friendlies or participate in events, you're paying the venue fee to simply use the venue's room.

They previously took 30% of the pot out to make a profit but as I said it's illegal and if the guys don't want to get into legal trouble and keep their business while at the same time actually make a profit from people using their venue and setups, a flat venue fee is the best and simplest solution.

And again, I remind everyone it's 5 dollars more than what you were previously paying and at the same time the venue is actually making a profit. If -enough- people actually complain about it, bring it to the DM forums or talk to Dan on AIM or something, they might reconsider, but it simply isn't a problem. www.digitalmayhemlc.com

 

[Budai578]

Though I suppose I'm biased since I usually make money from these events anyway, to me it sounds like you guys are still the minority when it comes to the specifics of what your $10 venue fee is actually going towards.

$10 for being able to play all day and use the room for the event is a really good deal. I feel like last time I ended up getting more than my money's worth, but that was because I stayed until the store closed (~11pm I believe). Before the tournament was even over, most people had left and there were plenty of setups for people to play friendlies for a few hours.

Between the hours of about 12-6, there are so many people (even with many setups) that most people are not playing at all or only get in a few friendlies/warm-ups. If the "loser switches" rule is in effect at the setup, then about 30-40% of the the people are playing 75% of the time.

For those 30-40% and those who stay all day and into the night (often the same people) the venue fee is an extremely good deal (also some of these people end up making money, as Cort mentioned). For those who are only able to or want to stay for the afternoon and/or early evening, the venue fee can definitely be a bit much for what they're actually getting out of the deal.

 

[Cort]

Participating in the tournament usually takes place between those hours, though. You can't expect to be playing constantly during those times.

I agree though, to feel like you got your money's worth you have to actually stay throughout the majority of the day. The vast majority of people stay for most of the day, and there's still usually very many people left over after tournaments are over. The setups are also not leaving (unless the Gamecubes leave, but I always encourage people to bring theirs anyway so generally it shouldn't be a problem..)

You can't expect the venue owners to give you a special treatment because you're only staying for one event or you only came for friendlies. It's not fair to everyone else expecting a good tournament, which DM has provided for us every single time with no problems.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Though I suppose I'm biased since I usually make money from these events anyway, to me it sounds like you guys are still the minority when it comes to the specifics of what your $10 venue fee is actually going towards.

The fee is a flat rate and I doubt the owners will have special situations for people leaving early and whatnot. It's not the venue's fault if you're not using the time you spend in the venue playing the entire time. You're not paying the venue to play friendlies or participate in events, you're paying the venue fee to simply use the venue's room.

They previously took 30% of the pot out to make a profit but as I said it's illegal and if the guys don't want to get into legal trouble and keep their business while at the same time actually make a profit from people using their venue and setups, a flat venue fee is the best and simplest solution.

And again, I remind everyone it's 5 dollars more than what you were previously paying and at the same time the venue is actually making a profit. If -enough- people actually complain about it, bring it to the DM forums or talk to Dan on AIM or something, they might reconsider, but it simply isn't a problem. www.digitalmayhemlc.com

Thanks for admitting people that make money can be biased. Unfortunately the smash community's true backbone is the majority that don't and probably never will make money. Quite frankly I lose money every single time I go to a tournament just to play a few tourney matches. So when the venue is super crowded and you can't play hardly any friendlies and you get knocked out early in tournament... the extra $10 is just kind of a pain. Mass Madness doesn't have a venue fee and it seemed like the same deal...game store with a few setups and way too many people.

$10 for being able to play all day and use the room for the event is a really good deal. I feel like last time I ended up getting more than my money's worth, but that was because I stayed until the store closed (~11pm I believe). Before the tournament was even over, most people had left and there were plenty of setups for people to play friendlies for a few hours.

Between the hours of about 12-6, there are so many people (even with many setups) that most people are not playing at all or only get in a few friendlies/warm-ups. If the "loser switches" rule is in effect at the setup, then about 30-40% of the the people are playing 75% of the time.

For those 30-40% and those who stay all day and into the night (often the same people) the venue fee is an extremely good deal (also some of these people end up making money, as Cort mentioned). For those who are only able to or want to stay for the afternoon and/or early evening, the venue fee can definitely be a bit much for what they're actually getting out of the deal.

The majority of touney-goers will only stay from 12-6, and hardly get any games in at all.

Do I sound super-johny/whiny? MM7 just kind of put a sour taste in my mouth considering I was there for 4 hours and played a grand total of 2 friendlies.

 

[Cort]

I don't really think the fact that I make money from these events actually affects my opinion of DM and it's venue fee. Like Brookman said, I am also a patron for DM because I like the owners and I like the venue. I am completely for and don't see anything wrong with them trying to make money legally and fairly via their venue fee, and I understand that they feel they are getting ripped off by the people that come just for friendlies or only enter a single event and then stay the entire day.

Cog, there will always be people that didn't enjoy their entire experience at tournaments and find things to complain about. You're not exactly one of these people because you make some valid points coming from your position, but you could make some more of an effort to enjoy your experience at tournaments, like asking me to play and stuff. I think the last time we played was SNF4 maybe.

I usually come to see everyone and talk with friends, amongst playing smash. Making money is just a bonus ~_~

 

[NusCirtap]

Haha, I know how you feel cogsmooch. I'm too shy to ask someone if I can get next match. =( If you're really good at the game then you get a tv for friendlies forever because you will never lose, or people will constantly only want to play you. So that alone makes it worth it, also the same people who get friendlies forever win money so it's like win win for them.

Hey Cort, when Savor borrows my book today. Make sure he gets it back to me by Wednesday. I think we have a test next Monday and I am only on like 1.2 when we'll be on like 2.4 by then. LOL I wish I had an attention span long enough to pay attention in class. -_-

Edit: Everyone needs to add me to facebook since I started using it, so I will never lose touch with the smash community. <3 If you can't figure out my full name by this point, I guess we were never really meant to be.
Funny picture,

A friend said I look bishounen in it, *blushes*.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

I don't really think the fact that I make money from these events actually affects my opinion of DM and it's venue fee. Like Brookman said, I am also a patron for DM because I like the owners and I like the venue. I am completely for and don't see anything wrong with them trying to make money legally and fairly via their venue fee, and I understand that they feel they are getting ripped off by the people that come just for friendlies or only enter a single event and then stay the entire day.

Cog, there will always be people that didn't enjoy their entire experience at tournaments and find things to complain about. You're not exactly one of these people because you make some valid points coming from your position, but you could make some more of an effort to enjoy your experience at tournaments, like asking me to play and stuff. I think the last time we played was SNF4 maybe.

I usually come to see everyone and talk with friends, amongst playing smash. Making money is just a bonus ~_~

I don't see why DM would have a problem with people that just enter one event and stay all day, since DM is still getting their $10...? Of course there's nothing wrong with them making money off their event, I just think it should be $5 instead of $10.
I could take more of an effort to enjoy myself at tournaments. I always seem to choke/**** up in the actual tourney, get discouraged, and then leave early. To the point where I'm thinking about just playing friendlies at all upcoming tourneys and not entering.

But I do like to come to talk and hang out with people too, since NE is amazing. But that gets to me too since I'm relatively new and a lot older than everybody... holy **** I'm getting so emo I need to stop.

lol I think MM7 was the only time we've been to the same tourney since SNF4? Maybe there was another MM in there. Regardless as we saw on Saturday, 7 setups + 78 people = zero friendlies. And I did ask you to cheat and play a friendly during tourney but you said no!
Point is, we need to play.

Haha, I know how you feel cogsmooch. I'm too shy to ask someone if I can get next match. =( If you're really good at the game then you get a tv for friendlies forever because you will never lose, or people will constantly only want to play you. So that alone makes it worth it, also the same people who get friendlies forever win money so it's like win win for them.

Hey Cort, when Savor borrows my book today. Make sure he gets it back to me by Wednesday. I think we have a test next Monday and I am only on like 1.2 when we'll be on like 2.4 by then. LOL I wish I had an attention span long enough to pay attention in class. -_-

Edit: Everyone needs to add me to facebook so I will never lose touch with the smash community. <3 If you can't figure out my full name by this point, I guess we were never really meant to be.
Funny picture,

LOL @ the better you are at melee, the more TV priority you have... but I've noticed this hasn't really been a problem lately.

 

[-Darc-]

5 Centimeters Per Second is a pretty good movie

 

[Cort]

7 setups + 78 friendlies = me feeling really bad about sneaking friendlies in

we would have been cut off in a few seconds anyway ~_~

In short, DM does not make the same profit they would if they just rented their TVs out by the hour as compared to just letting people enter 1 event and play all day vers instituting a venue fee. Though on the consumer side it's obviously not ideal but they set it in to be fair to their business. They took off $5 from the singles entry and added $5 for their single venue fee so they would still be taking approx 30% of the total pot (which is fairly generous considering venues range anywhere from there to over 50% of the pot for income)

I don't really know how much MM charges, but that place is much more cramped and doesn't have it's own setups, not to mention the players are forced to run the tournaments themselves.

 

[Budai578]

I really like DM... it's nice place, nice people, good location, etc. Right now I'm basically playing devil's advocate since I think that this side has some decent arguments. I'm actually in between both sides (if you consider there to be split sides) since I greatly enjoy my tournament experiences, but I don't really like paying a lot of money for it, hah.

I think one portion of people (which is more along the lines of where I stand) do both events for $10 each, then end up paying $10 on top of that. Add in food/drink/gas and you have yourself an expensive day trip. Being that I don't make any money from these tournaments (as well as 90% of the people who go), I would much prefer all of the fees to be reduced - something along the lines of $5 venue fee, $5-10 singles, $5 doubles. Another portion of people doesn't want to pay $10 to watch/hang out/play a few friendlies.

I know this means that all parties who stand to profit will not make as much, but there's also a chance that more people will attend the event. There may be some DM regulars or locals who would go to the tournament if it was $10-15.

DM has the right to do whatever they want with their fees, and I'll respect their decision, but there will always be people who don't like it. I know you can't please everyone. I know that one problem with changing around fees is that if you lower them and it doesn't work out as well, then people will complain if you change them back. I suppose the best way to do it is the way it is now - have a set policy/fee and just stick to it for as long as you can. This is pretty much the only thing they can do unless they're willing to do a lot of research/surveying to find out the best way to do it.

 

[-Darc-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0fvQQtkqoA&feature=PlayList&p=B6A3D54A888C68A8&index=0

 

[Tom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0fvQQtkqoA&feature=PlayList&p=B6A3D54A888C68A8&index=0

i want my innocence back

 

[-Darc-]

nya nyaa

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

in a nutshell: DM deserves some $. but $10 per person I feel is a too much. teh end

also, LMAO @ M2K's gfaqs brawl review...>_>

 

[SleepyK]

5 Centimeters Per Second is a pretty good movie

it's also a fun activity.

 

[the656]

has anyone seen Untraceable

 

[DarkDragoon]

=D All I know is, I was happy to drop $10 for a venue fee, because IXEsticle was single handedly the best $20+ I had probably spent all that season. I didn't even stay past 9:30, and I could've walked away at 8 feeling like I got my money's worth XD!

=P Think of it as no different than going to the movies, or a really cheap hooker.
=) But then remember you're with friends(and smash!), so its that much better.

Besides, the Chinese food store thats next door to DM is pretty good for takeout.

Wait...
Is there even another Esticle soon?
-DD

 

[SwiftBass]

link me to gamefaqs m2k review plz.

searching through thread in that site makes me upset unless its Cort posting haha

 

[wWw Dazwa]

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=516492&topic=41341001

daz delivers

 

[Jam Stunna]

In the same vein as Daz's avatar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbFnHBI-kts

I will own you all.

 

[Aesir]

brawls fun but it does feel kinda shallow..>_>

 

[trademark0013]

i skipped down to say:

ppl, seriously, stfu. pay the 10 or dont go. simple. u can play friendlies for free at someones house if u really want to. besides, u can post all u want and it wont change a thing... god..

down tilt spikes

also the end of February is really... near. I don't think there's enough time for another ESTICLE unless people don't care if Brawl is out.

wtf is brawl?

 

[trademark0013]

*jus read M2K's review*

yea, its everything i figured: slow, no skill needed, depth taken away... scrubs will love it!!!!

 

[Aesir]

Brawl is what happens when you try to change perfection.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Brawl is what happens when you try to change perfection.

How the hell do you get brawl from chrono trigger

 

[-Darc-]

How the hell do you get brawl from chrono trigger

How the hell do you get chrono trigger from Cort?

 

[DarkDragoon]

brawls fun but it does feel kinda shallow..>_>

>.> I thought that at first, but once you look into all the possibilities when using the knockback/damage decay to your advantage...
The numbers are, well, staggering.
And they go on for a WHILE.

I mean, M2K is sorta missing out on the whole Brawl deal by just sitting there with Marth whining about how he can't do things he loves to do in Melee.
Its like complaining about the Patriots in the next Madden game, because they can't win the Super Bowl like they could easily do in this last one.

<.< Lack of skill in things that were hard/needed practice to pull of in Melee aren't necessarily enough to slap the "Noob Friendly" sticker on it, it will only make gameplay more intelligent, since now the skill level has been raised for the use of combos and knowing what you're doing.

Its a NEW GAME. Just like how Melee was to SSB. Big deal if they took out a few cancels and made a few little adjustments to things that completely off-kiltered the MetaGame last time around.

I've played it. Not for very long, but I played it. It was a blast. Lucario was great fun, all the characters felt fresh, and the gameplay is smoother than a baby's bottom. Slower? Not as slow as people are making it out to be, but is it REALLY that bad that people can follow whats going on during the match?

Besides, tripping isn't that big of a deal. You trip, get invincibility frames, and get back up. Takes like, 2 seconds.

People just need to calm way the heck down and just let it take its course. Brawl will replace Melee, its pretty much on its way already. Just enjoy it while it lasts.

-DD

 

[noodles]

sakurai just wanted to make things easier for casual players.i personally would be fine without wavedashing but L-cancelling being removed is just crossing it