CPU Taught Me a Possibly Big Technique *VIDEO ADDED 7/23/08*

[armalite]

If this is already known I'm sorry but I've searched the boards for this and found nothing.

Well, I was playing against a CPU Ike. Make a long story short, Ike dash attacks my shield while I'm near the edge. He falls off the edge behind me then does Bair the same time I release my shield. This totally caught me off guard because it came out so quick (like a gattling combo) so I tried it out myself with Ike in training mode.

With your opponent shielded (and it only works when their shield is up) near the edge run up and do a dash attack, after it lands you'll fall off the stage letting you do an attack immediately afterwards.

I tested it out on some other characters and it works which is why didn't post this in the Ike boards, but I find Ike's the easiest and more practical ones to use because his dash attack animation puts Ike behind the opponent after the hit lands. For example, it works with the space animals but you have to initiate the dash attack really close to the opponent otherwise you'll just push your opponent onto the edge and this leaves you susceptible to getting shield grabbed.

I tried to see if it would work with a character that had multiple hits (Kirby to be exact) in their dash attacks and as I expected it didn't work. (I haven't had the chance to test out on anyone else yet because I don't have time to right now, I'll do more testing tomorrow.)

To punish your opponent as they release their shield to try and gimp is your goal really. If they keep their shield held down after you fall off, just Bair to push them back towards the center of the stage then recover. Bair is not your only option. You can jump back onto the stage or edge, wait then second jump an attack (best option is Bair in most cases ), , or upB. Note: Ike can do a second jump then bair and still land on the stage.

I'm sure theres more to this than what I found just fiddling with it for like 20 minutes. Let me know if you guys find anything to add on and I'll update the post. If you guys need a video, let me know and I'll get one up soon.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7A8LOnvNE

Will update the OP later.

 

[Tristan_win]

Sounds semi useful and hasn't been mention yet, good find if it's true.

Anyways have you tested doing this on top of platforms yet?

 

[Crizthakidd]

ill go see if this is any useful. what if the opp keeps their shield up -_- spotdoges or something

 

[IDK]

yeah seems kind of useful. all computers do this on default though i think. i've had just about every character do it to me.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Wow, good stuff. I can see this being useful. 5 stars!

 

[3xSwords]

Actually this has been discovered before sort of. With snake's mortar slide when he hit the opponent's shield he would all of a sudden go flying off the ledge. Wasn't considered useful back then but I guess I'll just wait and see what comes up now.

 

[Shears]

are you kidding me? its just chasing someone when you knock them off the stage. in this case its knocking them off the stage when they have thier shield up because in brawl knockback applies to shielded characters as well, its just significantly reduced. good job on reaching the observation level of playing brawl for 2 weeks.

 

[PaintedGhost]

are you kidding me? its just chasing someone when you knock them off the stage. in this case its knocking them off the stage when they have thier shield up because in brawl knockback applies to shielded characters as well, its just significantly reduced. good job on reaching the observation level of playing brawl for 2 weeks.

You obviously didn't read it properly. It's like a mindgame, ike used a dash attack on a shield. IKE fell off the edge, and before he grabbed the ledge, he used a b-air. How the **** is that chasing someone off the edge?

 

[Kingdom117]

I am going to try this when I get home from work tonight.
I hope i can make it work.
but it gives me other ideas as well!

 

[Blackshadow]

A mindgame is not a technique. Let alone a very simple mindgame that shouldn't really have a thread created for it.

 

[acv]

it works with wolfs fsmash.

 

[Deleted member]

this has been known for a long long long time.

theres a video on youtube somewhere about it ill try to find it.

 

[Pasqual]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcEyAE7rLGs

I posted a thread about this in the Snake forums when it happened to me and Oreo. You can't get the mortar to come out and still fall off. I didn't know it worked with other characters, so that's cool.

 

[Sosuke]

Nice attempt.
It could be useful sometimes I guess.

 

[armalite]

apparently there's some confusion about this. the video that pasqual post shows how it works in a nutshell. I'll try to post a video up when I can. I also noticed that this works with Fox's hyphen smash. I don't think every character can do it, unless I'm doing something wrong. I can't get it to work with Kirby or Lucario.

@Tristan_win: It works on platforms, but it works a bit differently. I tried it out with Ike and what happens is that when they're on the edge of the platform, the dash attack will cause your opponent to fall off the platform with you leaving them open to get hit with a bair. Pretty nifty I must say.

 

[~Peachy~]

I can see how this is useful.

@Blackshadow Technically, mindgames may be different then techniques, but that does not mean it is less important then techniques in the smash universe. Quite a large portion of the game relies on mind games and tricking your opponent. Mind games also keep a person from being predictable. To conclude, you say that mindgames are not techniques, but even if you're right, they contribute a lot to SSB Brawl......actually to all of the SSB series.And that's what matters.

I'm trying to picture how it works.... basically, the opponent dash attacks, goes through the sheild, runs off the edge, and then does an aerial while in the process grabs the ledge?

That seems like it may be useful. I never heard it before, and at least its better than other useless stuff we see on the boards.( not directed at anyone specifically)Good job.

 

[nightSN]

hmmm good job on mentioning this, could be useful so you dont get sheildgrabbed

 

[Greenstreet]

shield cud break depending on length of time it takes..

 

[GimmeAnFSharp]

Only thing I'm concerned about is the BEFORE. It must either require A. Really awkward placement on your part or B. Really awkward placement on your opponent's part. I don't see the latter happening TOO often.

It's a nice trick, but I hardly see it being largely applicable.

 

[armalite]

Only thing I'm concerned about is the BEFORE. It must either require A. Really awkward placement on your part or B. Really awkward placement on your opponent's part. I don't see the latter happening TOO often.

It's a nice trick, but I hardly see it being largely applicable.

I agree with it requiring awkward placement on your opponent's part. For most characters, in order for this to work it requires the opponent to be shield on the very edge of the stage. Platforms don't require them to be as close and gives you more options. It doesn't require the user to place themselves in too much of an awkward position though, all it is just running towards the edge of the stage doing a dash attack. This isn't a technique so groundbreaking that you can just go out and own everyone after learning it, but it's something to add to your arsenal in actual play.

I'm actually working on this right now on multiple characters with a friend and we already found some pretty good stuff. When we're done I'll get a video up ASAP.

 

[Blackshadow]

@Blackshadow Technically, mindgames may be different then techniques, but that does not mean it is less important then techniques in the smash universe. Quite a large portion of the game relies on mind games and tricking your opponent. Mind games also keep a person from being predictable. To conclude, you say that mindgames are not techniques, but even if you're right, they contribute a lot to SSB Brawl......actually to all of the SSB series.And that's what matters.

That's true, but I also said that this particular mindgame is not really that significant, and is really quite obvious, and as such really shouldn't have a thread devoted to it.

 

[armalite]

Video added in the OP.

 

[Tangy]

This has been found a while ago, but I don't think there's any name for it. Probably because there's no way to do this on purpose. My friend did the same thing but with a fair instead and fell to his death.

 

[Speedsk8er]

It works with any attack with any kind of forward momentum, afaik.

 

[Falconv1.0]

One of the few threads about some new discovery I really thought had some purpose. Good find.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

im pretty sure this has to do with lylat tilting

 

[Sasha]

im pretty sure this has to do with lylat tilting

Watch the video maybe?

Nice find. Seems to work only against people that don't like to ground dodge tho.

 

[Pasqual]

Good video, shows some interesting possibilities when you force the falloff. Jiggly's dash attack to rest is awesome.

Good job.

 

[Crow!]

The video impressed me much more than I expected it to. Well presented. Unfortunately, in whatever cases this proves to actually be useful, it will probably just cause people to spot dodge more and shield less near the ledge.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I'm sorry, but this isn't a new technique at all. Basically, you fell off the edge, and you used an attack: that's common sense. Once you're in the air, you lost any type of lag because you left the ground. That's really simple. Not only that, but it calls for your opponent to shield, and he could dodge instead. Therefor, not that useful.

 

[salaboB]

The video impressed me much more than I expected it to. Well presented. Unfortunately, in whatever cases this proves to actually be useful, it will probably just cause people to spot dodge more and shield less near the ledge.

Which is also good to know

 

[xandeR-]

The video impressed me much more than I expected it to. Well presented. Unfortunately, in whatever cases this proves to actually be useful, it will probably just cause people to spot dodge more and shield less near the ledge.

Agreed. Quite a neat effect.

Good find.

 

[BrawlBro]

with the description i thought this was dumb but with the video I think I changed my mind, could be a good tool for quick spikes/stage spikes.

 

[FalconPunch]

anyone good in Melee already knew about this.

 

[okiyama]

Very useful, but a little too situational for my tastes.
I'll try it out but it'll be hard to make me always think that as instinct whenever I see a shielding oponent right on the edge.

 

[Crystanium]

Rohins, a great Samus main, noted of this kind of technique to Samus players a month ago. However, it was the third of the three kinds of d-air setups for Samus.

 

[Pero]

But to really point out his point was kinda bair in the begining not push opponet off to dair spike them... just "pass" with a mind game for a good bair set up that might be helpful for combo chances or killer bairs or just damage. O the possiblities... =D

 

[Solaris1110]

This could be good if you purposely shield at the ledge with say Marth, and up B right when you get pushed off.