Curtains! The Zelda Performance Thread! Critics Welcome~

Yeah at first I thought about not adding Wifi but I didn't want to leave him out :x

If I forgot to add some videos that are past July 2011, please let me know I went through all the posts very quickly. Also, any suggestions to improve this thread are all welcome.

Fuujin · Dec 24, 2011

Well idk but there's just a big difference with what you can get away with on wifi and offline.
Especially with Zelda.
I would probably put wifi vids in their own section.

Alacion · Dec 24, 2011

Hm how about a special marker to show that they're wifi? Don't want to redo the whole thread ~_~

Eh actually I'll just make a new Wifi section. I won't change the Singles (by character) though... too much digging.

Mocha · Dec 29, 2011

My partner's name is Diska not Disca xD

I'll post a couple of my offline singles:

HOBO 33

Mocha (Zelda) vs Tesh (MetaKnight) 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KedgmYKNXGI

---

Mocha (Zelda) vs Tesh (MetaKnight) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_i2GZugNu4

---

Mocha (Zelda) vs Blaine (Samus)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wreXI92WjaU

---

Mocha (Zelda) vs Xyro (Samus) 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjEzHp0vZZM

---

Mocha (Zelda) vs Xyro (Samus) 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLJpO8Oo24Q

Alacion · Dec 29, 2011

Oops didn't mean to typo your partner's name up! Will change it right away.

Argh... I KNOW I added those Meta Knight videos so why aren't they in the post

I added everything in. Please tell me if I have made any more mistakes :x

Alacion · Dec 30, 2011

Courier gets ***** by Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7v6YaOtpF8 (he coulda camped more)

Courier gets ***** by MK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCZV5yY986I

Happy laughs guys! Pretty much the gist of it is improve DI, improve reads, lrn2pwrshield, and freaking airdodge those Shuttle Loops!

Mocha · Dec 30, 2011

All goods, thank you ^_^

My match vs Uber was online though we literally had almost no lag, so I can see how you'd get it confused. We were actually able to be mostly consistent with our moves too, which was nice.

This looks great to far. I like how it's separated from the tourney results

Alacion · Dec 31, 2011

Okay appropriate adjustments have been made. Thanks!

KuroganeHammer · Dec 31, 2011

Courier said:
Courier gets ***** by Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7v6YaOtpF8 (he coulda camped more)

Just posting to say that that Falco was approaching you, and could have broken you much worse had he not. x_x

I might look around for some videos, but I usually go Sheik since going solo Zelda is a one way ticket to losing (unless it's against bad players).

Mocha · Dec 31, 2011

Again, good job with putting all of this up, Courier. Going to check out the other videos (or again) to see how other Zeldas are doing

AlanHaTe · Dec 31, 2011

yet another new thread! nice nice!

I'm finally the first of a list in something smash related lol

EDIT: btw I found this one(vs Wolf) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZelP...eature=related

Alacion · Jan 1, 2012

Aerodrome said:
Just posting to say that that Falco was approaching you, and could have broken you much worse had he not. x_x

I might look around for some videos, but I usually go Sheik since going solo Zelda is a one way ticket to losing (unless it's against bad players).

Yes I realize that which is why I said he could have camped more. This was the first of many games after playing Melee for a few hours so he was still kinda aggressive.

Alan that video says internal server error o.o

Alacion · Jan 2, 2012

Courier gets... TRIPLE ***** by Snake :D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnw48egaAe4

Would actually love critiques on this video as Snake is yet another one of my matchups that I struggle with greatly. Thanks in advance! <3

Alacion · Jan 17, 2012

No help for our favourite express delivery man?

*Switches mains*

KuroganeHammer · Jan 17, 2012

Naww! I'm sorry! But I'm probably just as bad at the snake match up than you are! =(

Alacion · Jan 17, 2012

Yeah

I know I have what it takes to win since many times I come close but I can never finish him off. I really hate to have to rely on Peach to win in this matchup which is why I'd love some help.

Thanks though <3

KuroganeHammer · Jan 17, 2012

Okay I'll try.

0:11 - Missed a dash grab here. Up-smash or dash attack might have been better? You're lucky you didn't get punished harder for it.
0:55 - great platform kill here, I was very impressed.
1:07 - Until I saw this anyway.
1:37 - Another missed dash grab
2:08 - some great platform pressure. I have no idea why the Snake players stayed up there. He tried to punish it by spotdodging, but it didn't work.
2:19 - Being too obvious with those up airs imo
2:48 - loltaunt
3:07 - This is why you don't take Snake to Brinstar.

I can't think of anything else apart from try not to camp Snake. It doesn't work. =(

Alacion · Jan 17, 2012

Responses to your comments...

I noticed I rarely use Up Smash anymore... like in the first video I think used it only once...

For 1:07, I'm guessing that's the ftilt and yeah that's a huge habit of mine since I'm a fan of ftilt to up smash

2:19 is yet another one of my habits where I'm fishing for an up air to catch up.

2:48 I taunt a lot more than that normally, especially in doubles for some stupid reason. Probably means I'm having a lot of fun playing

I hate Brinstar it's a terrible stage but I felt like giving it a try, haha.

KuroganeHammer · Jan 17, 2012

f-tilt to upsmash is fine, just not on invincible characters lol.

Soz I only watched one video, and I kinda skimmed through it, I'm kinda busy atm >.>

Not using up-smash is fine, since Snake can grenade out of them. lol

Mocha · Jan 17, 2012

Alright here's my set from the tourney, Revolution 9. I feel like I could have played better, despite it being close. Comments anyone?

ALSM(Diddy) vs Mocha(Zelda) 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBKMB-EVYHs
ALSM(Didd)y vs Mocha(Zelda) 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e3B6mmpKaI

Made a couple of mistakes, and some risky choice of moves. I also feel like I started fishing for the Upsmash kill a bit too much on the second match. And too much spot dodge and Nayru's Love in general <.<

Alacion · Jan 18, 2012

Will get around to watching those vids soon. In the meantime, I have added your videos to the thread, Mocha.

Mocha · Jan 18, 2012

Thanks Courier

Alacion · Jan 19, 2012

Aw darn Mocha you were sooo close <3

I don't think I'll critique the videos but I will bring up a couple points to ponder (pretty much from my own experience).

1) Nayru's and Spotdodge Spamming in General

In regards to your Nayru's Love and Spotdodge spamming... this is something that I think many Zeldas do from time to time (especially me!). After putting some thought, I realized that the overuse of these moves might indicate fear or inexperience. I'll elaborate with an example...

Remember that Falco vid I posted a while back? The way you deal with his lasers is to power shield but all I did was spotdodge since it was "easier" and made up for my lack of MU experience.

Nayru's Love is similar due to its defensive properties.

My thoughts to reduce this habit (which only seems to happen in certain MU/people that one lacks experience with) is just to play the matchup more. With experience you'll be more comfortable and able to show no fear and go in and win! With no fear, you'll be using your defensive options more wisely and less frequently (which means less punishment).

2) Itemplay

With more players picking up Peach, ROB, Diddy Kong, and maybe ZSS and Wario... learning how to play around with items is becoming more necessary. For the majority of us that don't specialize in using items, there are "strategies" we can employ so items help us too.

One thing is we tend to throw back the item right away. There are a few other things we can do with items that can be beneficial. In regards to Zelda, the most obvious one is the glidetoss. It covers such a large distance and allows for a good followup opportunity.

Another thing I found somewhat helpful are mindgames. When an item is thrown, you'll hear that "item sound" and that usually indicates something is coming your way... or does it? By using Z to drop the item, you can instantly recatch the item by pressing Z again immediately. By using this, you're keeping your opponent guessing and on the defensive creating an opportunity to possibly punish. Regrabbing in general is also very useful, and can be done with attack or Z.... Like when you throw a banana at Diddy and he shields, the banana will bounce off the shield allowing you to regrab the banana. This way, Diddy can't drop his shield and instantly pick up the banana you threw at him.

I think the Z drop is a very underrated technique for items. Sure the item doesn't drop as quickly but your character will sometimes make it difficult to see the dropped item (especially Zelda since she's so tall). By using Z drop just past the ledge while an opponent is recovering, you can possibly knock the opponent preventing them from recovering. Think of Peach pressuring a recovering opponent with her turnips.

I think ever since I picked up Peach, my item game has improved soooo much. It's not quite there yet but it has improved very much.

Yeah it's late and I am really sleep deprived from school but thought I'd share what was on my mind

Sorry if stuff is wrong or doesn't make sense I tried!!

Fuujin · Jan 19, 2012

Welp of ALL of the matches I had at Apex the only one to be uploaded so far was doubles...:/

Many of you were probably unaware I entered doubles because I didn't realy care to say anything about it because my partner... who pretty much sucked :/

Long story short, when I teamed with Fae a while back I discovered Lucas and Zelda were AMAZING in teams together, so while I was trying to find a partner Jarvitz asked to team.
Me being the idiot that I was for some reason thought Jarvitz would be good.

I was wrong.

Kid didn't understand the principals of teamwork at all, and he was just generally horrible.
He did **** damage, hardly ever used magnet when I send Din's Fire toward him, couldn't recover, died super early, and loved running into my smash attacks after I had already started them.
Honestly I wasn't even trying very hard in doubles because I knew we wouldn't make it far with me carrying the team as Zelda.

tl;dr
I entered doubles but had a ****ty partner, didn't really end up trying because I knew we wouldn't get far.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQZHU7TSh3s enjoy

Moral of the story: Always check to make sure your partner is decent before agreeing to team with them.

Edit: Mocha from the videos one thing I would say is I wouldn't try to LK diddy so much, he's small and it's kinda hard to hit him with sweetspots I think you're better off staying grounded and trying to gain banana control.

Mocha · Jan 19, 2012

Wowie thanks for the long write up. In fact, I appreciate it a lot ^^

Nayru's Love and Spotdodging: I'm almost certain that my recently developed habits of over spot dodging (other than when I first started playing competitively) and excessive Nayru's Love on the ground has been wifi related. On wifi, these options can actually be viable, and allows you to get away with it more. Offline however, is a different story. NinjaLink pointed out to me that there is a time and place to spot dodge, just not to the point where your opponent will predict and punish it.

Same with Nayru's Love. I do blame mostly wifi for me picking up on these habits, which is one of the reasons I'm considering picking up another character for wifi (so that my Zelda doesn't get messed up) or just stop playing wifi for once and for all. Thing about it though is that even though I'm in a great region for smash, I'm not ALWAYS playing someone offline, so if I go for a long period of time without playing, I'll get rusty. Either way it sucks, cause that would essentially be like me playing offline for like once a month, or get some wifi in for practice on the side.

Itemplay: Yeah I love Zelda's glide toss. I messed it up a few times, but I also feel like at times, I could have chosen to follow up with something else. Yeah Z catching is a good idea, I didn't use that at all in our matches, though with an occasional air dodge catch.

Mocha · Jan 19, 2012

Yeah Fuujin, but when I fair and bair I don't always use it for trying to lightning kick. I use it for spacing, and to cancel into other moves. Also a sourspot aerial can follow into another move, and I've been toying around this with more lately. I do feel like I didn't really make good use of them though, especially in these matches. NL said I should have used Nair more.

Oh and I'll be watching your vid in a bit

Edit: Wow. Gotta say, you've definitely been the one carrying your team. I have never seen jarvitz play lol, but yeah, if you had teamed with FAE it probably would have gone differently. I heard that Zelda and Lucas can make decent partners, especially in low tiers. Thing is, both have to know what they're doing and work with each other. I feel like the teamwork with you two was a bit off, or maybe you both just didn't get enough practice before going to doubles tourney matches?

I swear, there were times I was watching this and I felt like I was watching me play. Especially the constant Nayru's Love, the panic move. I also want to point out that I think Pokemon Stadium 1 was a terrible counterpick for Zelda and Lucas, since they both have recoveries that get messed up by those booty edges ):

Fuujin · Jan 19, 2012

Well I'm sort of on the fence about Nayru's.
I know it's a bad move and I overuse it way too much but at the same time I try to utilize it and try to get some use out of it.

Zelda's metagame and playstyle are incredibly simple.
She has like 5 moves total that she relies on and that's boring as hell so I'm going to try to utilize all of her moves even if they're bad.
That's part of playing a very bad character, using some stuff and just hoping it works.

Nayru's actually works very well when the person doesn't realize how punishable it is, but when they do punish the move it gets a lot harder to pull off.

Mocha · Jan 19, 2012

It has its uses, it's just the cooldown + smart player = punish, sadly. And NEVER Nayru's against Ice Climbers on the ground, not even to reflect stuff. Freeee grab, or at least, you're putting yourself in a terrible position to get grabbed.

And I know Zelda has a simple playstyle with few good moves. It's a question of when to use the move. Good example is Zelda's f-tilt. Slow as hell, but has its uses, and can combo into an upsmash. Also a really weird move to DI if it kills, because of the trajectory it sends you

Fuujin · Jan 19, 2012

Oh yeah I learned the hard way not to use Nayru's on ICs.
You can;t eve get away with Din's Fire on them half of the time.

Alacion · Jan 19, 2012

Wow you carried that Lucas so hard... I think you and jarvitz should have changed ports. That way your Din's Fire "saves" wouldn't put jarvitz in a bad position.

3:35 was brutal

Hate Pikachu so much (-3 MU!!). Those QA cancels and that Skull Bash >_>

Mocha · Jan 19, 2012

Fuujin said:
Oh yeah I learned the hard way not to use Nayru's on ICs.
You can;t eve get away with Din's Fire on them half of the time.

I did too. Heck not even down tilt is safe against them, they can powershield + grab. In fact pretty much anything close range, even mid range is meh. Though down tilt can stop ice blocks. Din's too, and you're right they always get in too fast to make use of it :/

Oh and let's not even talk about Zelda missing her recovery on the ledge xD

Fuujin · Jan 19, 2012

Mocha said:
I did too. Heck not even down tilt is safe against them, they can powershield + grab. In fact pretty much anything close range, even mid range is meh. Though down tilt can stop ice blocks. Din's too, and you're right they always get in too fast to make use of it :/

Oh and let's not even talk about Zelda missing her recovery on the ledge xD

Zelda just has too may unsafe things in that match up.
I can't beleive people used to consider that in her favor, let alone even.
Hylians ICs found a way a long time ago that made even F smash unsafe.

Courier said:
Wow you carried that Lucas so hard... I think you and jarvitz should have changed ports. That way your Din's Fire "saves" wouldn't put jarvitz in a bad position.

3:35 was brutal

Hate Pikachu so much (-3 MU!!). Those QA cancels and that Skull Bash >_>

Yeah I wasn't even really trying in doubles at that point, especially after the first match :/

Mocha · Jan 19, 2012

Yeah that's shield DI he was probably talking about. Or ICs can just bait your f-smash by running up to you, spot dodging it, and grabbing. Smoom did this to me once, and I had to stick to almost no ground moves except Din's from distance and down smash (even so was risky), and ONLY upsmash if punishing landings. Do that on the ground and it's bad for you.

Rizen · Jan 26, 2012

This is my best run against a good Olimar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZJAmiqenSk&list=UUBlc1aYEJlv6Kcq6gbC1K7w&index=15&feature=plcp
Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5NyBcmQtps&list=UUBlc1aYEJlv6Kcq6gbC1K7w&index=16&feature=plcp

This one I'd like critiqued please; ZSS murders me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqY5yfYieE&list=UUBlc1aYEJlv6Kcq6gbC1K7w&index=17&feature=plcp

(I was trying for a Usmash>Uair to punish the shield break.)

Alacion · Jan 26, 2012

0:00 - Never start off a game with Din's Fire vs. ZSS it only causes her armour pieces to hit you. Of course, this is a huge habit Zelda players have so...

Careful with the Nayru's, by using it too much you're letting ZSS have openings to punish you with.

When those spikes come out at Picto, ZSS has two safe options. One being Side B which he did use and the other is her down smash.

1:00 - Unfortunate. Maybe watch where you Din's... being too close to the edge can result in SD

1:20 - :D

1:43 - Yeah a charged up smash wasn't your best option. If she DI'd your up smash you would not have landed the up air anyway. I think fair would have been better.

2:20 - Ah don't roll towards ZSS especially when you know she's going to dsmash.

2:37 - Could have used a reverse Nayru's

2:52 - Could have been more patient?

3:11 - Nice thinking!

Lastly... Pictochat is freaking banned never go to that stage it's terrible.

Next time you play Bio, punish his rolls he does them sooo much around you. I dunno about punishing with dsmash too. Even though it's escapable I think a fsmash or dtilt -> follow up would be better.

Dsmash puts ZSS in a bad recovering position (yes, I know her recovery options are GOOD) because its trajectory removes her down b and side b options. Her up b is easier to punish.

Master Morrison · Jan 29, 2012

oh i just love zelda but i could never save my replays
or have a recorder

so i wish i could show you guys my zelda

KuroganeHammer · Jan 29, 2012

Even though Wi-Fi is yucky, I know a good ZSS player, either next time we play offline (hopefully Feb 18th) or the next time we play Wi-Fi (lol) I'll try to record some matches for you Rizen.

Curtains! The Zelda Performance Thread! Critics Welcome~

Sunny skies

Sunny skies

Smash Champion

Sunny skies

Smash Champion

Sunny skies

Coffee Addict

Sunny skies

Sunny skies

Coffee Addict

Sunny skies

It's ya boy

Coffee Addict

Smash Ace

Sunny skies

Sunny skies

Sunny skies

It's ya boy

Sunny skies

It's ya boy

Sunny skies

It's ya boy

Coffee Addict

Sunny skies

Coffee Addict

Sunny skies

Smash Champion

Coffee Addict

Coffee Addict

Smash Champion

Coffee Addict

Smash Champion

Sunny skies

Coffee Addict

Smash Champion

Coffee Addict

Smash Legend

Sunny skies

Smash Cadet

It's ya boy

Information

Network