Curtains! The Zelda Performance Thread! Critics Welcome~

#HBC | Scary · Mar 1, 2012

In one of the matches with Dtorr, I go to Zelda on a fresh final stock and Dtorr brought it back. I was super sad. All I have is bad experiences with ZSS. Waaaaah!

Fuujin · Mar 1, 2012

So are these all tournament?
Friendlies?
MMs?

Maybe we should seperate them all in the OP.
Though that's probably a lot of work.

#HBC | Scary · Mar 1, 2012

Sorry, these are all tournament play. The specific tournament is "Come to Papa". These appear to be all my pool sets.

Alacion · Mar 1, 2012

Oh I haven't put any of Ed's vids in this thread. You guys need to tell me which vids you want me to add. (Eg. I have way more videos than there actually are on the OP)

Yeah it is a bit of work to do... most video threads don't separate vids by MM/Tourney/Friendly and just do it by player.

Got some studying today and I'm kinda busy tomorrow but if memory serves I think there were games of Zelda/Peach. I record in the order they appear on the Wii so... :o

#HBC | Scary · Mar 1, 2012

Excited about the Zelda/Peach vids. That should be me vs Kyon. There should also be me vs 2-d Jeff on there (ICs)

KuroganeHammer · Mar 1, 2012

Fuujin said:
wait I'm confused, I meant will the OPPONENT get their moves refreshed if they clash with Din's?

No, never.

Alacion · Mar 1, 2012

ScaryLB59 said:
Excited about the Zelda/Peach vids. That should be me vs Kyon. There should also be me vs 2-d Jeff on there (ICs)

Don't think I can record tomorrow so I'll record those games now as part of tomorrow's batch.

LordXav1er · Mar 2, 2012

Can't wait to see those vids :3

Alacion · Mar 2, 2012

Oh right... I actually have to upload them

Alacion · Mar 2, 2012

Mocha what are you doing up so late/early!!!

Video dump (all Zelda this time... almost):
http://youtu.be/-P4uHxM4hdI
http://youtu.be/Npbwk2_GC7A
http://youtu.be/dhk58SZJW5M
http://youtu.be/AXIO2DYXHMk
http://youtu.be/HBWZaQTX65A

#HBC | Scary · Mar 2, 2012

Thanks so much Cour! I wanted to be Kyon so badly, he just took that one from me

. Drained at that point and then Sheik for bombed lol.

As for Jeff, the YI match was game 3. It was a combo of me making outta grabs and people cheering me on. He got really nervous but normally he's a roadblock to me.

Alacion · Mar 2, 2012

Okay I changed it for you

Won't have time to record for today and tomorrow, sorry about that :o

#HBC | Scary · Mar 2, 2012

Still, thank you so much!

Alacion · Mar 2, 2012

Anytime! Well almost

Shame about the Peach you were on a roll but it seemed like he knew the matchup (well he knew how to cancel Din's at least...).

#HBC | Scary · Mar 2, 2012

Yea. I honestly was surprised I jumped out on him so far. We play all the time so I know he knows what to do.

Mocha · Mar 2, 2012

Just finished watching all the vids. You do a lot better than I do vs Peach, and more importantly, you try to stay centered as much as you can and not corner yourself near the edge like I always do. Good job Ed! And yeah I think Kyon does know the MU from having played Lady Legion, former Zelda main who I haven't heard from in ages.

As for ICs, it's a terrible, dreadful MU. Almost considered using Snake against them lol

Queen B. Kyon · Mar 2, 2012

Honestly I learned it from ed. Once I get that feel.... Like the start of game 2....its done and here comes shiek lol

#HBC | Scary · Mar 2, 2012

Lmao, bombs away sadly. Your pulls are always so much better against Sheik. More death comes out.

That feel though, usually starts with you unleashing more garden. As much as I instant toss, all those turnips make life tough.

Also, thanks Mocha! It certainly is best to stay centered as much as you can. Peach murders good characters by the ledge so it'such easier for her to option-select us there.

Zanx8 · Mar 5, 2012

This is kinda old compared to how my Zelda is since I've improved a lot from this, but I wanted someone to critique my Zelda from then and I'll try getting another video of me that is offline even though haven't done anything offline in a while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpIStibQ__s&feature=channel I know I probably did bad >_>

Mocha · Mar 5, 2012

Not bad Zanx. I'm surprised you were both able to powershield so much in wifi lag lol.

One thing I did notice is that you, like most Zeldas (and myself) have a habit of instantly mashing the c-stick after being in an uncomfortable situation, or we spot dodge and c-stick. A good opponent would have picked up on this habit and they would have baited and or try fake you out by making you think they'll approach, and they'll wait and see how you react. Zelda's Upsmash is exactly the easiest smash to punish of all her smashes because of the cooldown. Though I don't discourage you from using any of her smashes out of shield, just be less predictable with it. Not to mention, you can keep some more fresh kill moves.

Other out of shield options you can try using is grab out of shield (though her grab is frustratingly slow) and back air out of shield, which, if you do it consistently and get the hang of it, you'll be landing more sweet spots. I saw several instances in both matches were that could have a viable option and earned you an early kill. You should also try more nair in general, and maybe some aerial canceling - just be aware of Fox's Upsmash, which kills so well.

For her Up Air, see if you can force your opponent to air dodge before using it. Din's Fire is a great way to force your opponent to air dodge if they're trying to make it back to the stage in the air. You can even jump toward their direction and make them think you'll try to up air, and do something else entirely, like Upsmash their landing. Mix it up

Some things I noticed that I liked was your use of Down Tilt. Instead of you constantly using Down Tilt at low percents, you followed up with a grab after once Down Tilt. This was good. Remember too that at high percents Down Tilt can pop up for an Upsmash or Uptilt kill.

Keep working at it, and post any more vids you have as you improve. Good stuff

Alacion · Mar 5, 2012

Something general to keep in mind... never start a game with Din's Fire in Battlefield especially against a Spacie who can side b at you for free damage.

KuroganeHammer · Mar 5, 2012

Zelda is the physical personification of c-stick though.

Dark.Pch · Mar 7, 2012

Rizen · Mar 7, 2012

Dark.Pch said:
I told Mocha I get back into Zelda so I am trying to use her again. Here are some vids of me here. In these vids I will say to excuse the smash attacks wiffs. I have no clue how to fight Yoshi and I was just hoping this dude would move into my hits. Till I could figure out what to do. Really noobish on my part. So outside from that, any tips on this would be great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbrCmcTBtdk&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=8&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_uJwWHib8s&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=7&feature=plpp_video

I watched these two. You have very good spacing but it's wrong spacing, lol. A lot of your attacks were short, dash attacks in particular. Adjust your vertical spacing to attack closer and you'll be doing very well.
Your OoS and panic move is Dsmash (I do this too), it isn't a bad option but also use tilts and SH Bair etc.
You favor Nair, or Uair if Yoshi's above you. Nair is a great move but you could have landed a Bair/Fair a few times. Also don't approach with full hop Nair because Yoshi can Egg or Usmash.
Good Dtilt spacing. My only comment is you did it mostly before or after 'lock'%s. In general 50%-100% opponents will be locked by Dtilt and you can repeat it several times and finish with a grab or Dsmash. Good opponents can DI out earlier but I doubt that Yoshi would have.
Mix in dash grabs with dash attacks. Use Utilt if Usmash is stale.
Good pressuring with Din's, detonate it to stop eggs as Yoshi throws them.
Nayru's reflected Yoshi's egg planking okay. It's usually more of a GTFO move and a few times when you reflected his eggs ('his' eggs?) and he was on stage, Yoshi could have rushed you during Nayru's long cooldown.
Good stuff

PS
Your Peach is amazing!

Alacion · Mar 7, 2012

Not sure if Din's Fire can cancel eggs...

Dash Attack is amazing in this matchup. It's like... perfect to deal with Yoshi's egg toss.

I wouldn't rush in otherwise (as well as dash grab) because of Yoshi's grab. That Yoshi was kinda obvious with his dash -> grab or smash attack.

Mocha · Mar 7, 2012

It's nice to see you using her some more, Dark - despite her not being your main. You have good experience offline, and you try to actually think in your matches. Being constantly focused with Zelda is even more prominent than many characters above her because she can't afford to auto-pilot too much and make mistakes. I could tell that in these matches you were trying to make some reads and punish. And I know I've said this before, but lag does make it harder to punish things because of timing, though the same could be said for your opponent.

Video 1: Nice use of down tilt. Zelda's smashes are very overrated, don't always think your'e safe with them. Yes, I encourage you to use them for reads, just don't use them as a panic option like I do when I feel uncomfortable in a situation. Though at times I noticed you'd run away and try to reset your position, which was good. Yoshi isn't bad at getting in your face very fast either, especially with that crazy air speed. His nair is annoying and beats Din's, among a couple of other moves he has.

Video 2: Yoshi and his giant head's hitbox for upsmash...urgh. I liked this match, your reads were more consistent and they were successful. I don't recommend always starting the match with up b unless your opponent somehow always falls for it. When I up b into people (or up b in any other situation where I'm not trying to recover) I try to do it unexpectedly or for a mindgame because in general the move is punishable, sadly. I loved your up air reads and nice use of Nayru's Love in this one. You didn't spam it, and used it appropriately.

Video 3: Wow a 7 minute match. You two were pretty patient (well he only got more patient toward the end) but nicely done. Was funny watching eggs getting reflected at him while be made an attempt to punish.

Video 4: He was all over you in this one, especially toward the end. I can't believe how many dash attacks you hit him with lol, he finally baited with a pivot grab. I'm actually surprised this Yoshi doesn't use as many pivot grabs as most Yoshis I've seen do.

Video 5: Eggs are annoying. Nice kick at the end.

Video 6: Using your smashes more conservatively nice work. Your dash attack punishes remind me about what you told vs Peach when she's pulling out turnips whenever Yoshi is throwing eggs at you

Video 7: I noticed you like to DI with up air. Is that accidental or is that the aerial you're most comfortable DI'ing with? I feel like you could live longer by DI'ing with down air in most situations, or back air for momentum canceling. But if up air works for you that's fine too. I knew another really good and underrated Zelda who liked to DI with up air.

Video 8: Nice job stock tanking there at the end. You both lived forever lol

Alacion · Mar 7, 2012

I'm thinking the up air is something picked up from Peach, since Peach's up air is her quickest aerial.

I didn't get around to watching all the vids but Dark.Pch I like your Zelda so far. Your Peach is, without saying, very good and entertaining to watch. I learned a few things from your tutorials!

Dark.Pch · Mar 9, 2012

Rizen said:
I watched these two. You have very good spacing but it's wrong spacing, lol. A lot of your attacks were short, dash attacks in particular. Adjust your vertical spacing to attack closer and you'll be doing very well.
Your OoS and panic move is Dsmash (I do this too), it isn't a bad option but also use tilts and SH Bair etc.
You favor Nair, or Uair if Yoshi's above you. Nair is a great move but you could have landed a Bair/Fair a few times. Also don't approach with full hop Nair because Yoshi can Egg or Usmash.
Good Dtilt spacing. My only comment is you did it mostly before or after 'lock'%s. In general 50%-100% opponents will be locked by Dtilt and you can repeat it several times and finish with a grab or Dsmash. Good opponents can DI out earlier but I doubt that Yoshi would have.
Mix in dash grabs with dash attacks. Use Utilt if Usmash is stale.
Good pressuring with Din's, detonate it to stop eggs as Yoshi throws them.
Nayru's reflected Yoshi's egg planking okay. It's usually more of a GTFO move and a few times when you reflected his eggs ('his' eggs?) and he was on stage, Yoshi could have rushed you during Nayru's long cooldown.
Good stuff

PS
Your Peach is amazing!

Think me playing Peach too much makes me space like her using Zelda.

I know Full hop Nairs are not all that. But I tried to take educated guess when I would think he would jump. So if I hit withit, I can then jump again and air pressure him and bait a hit.

I think I have to get use to hit conforming the Dtilt and the DI.

And I don't think my Peach is all that but thanks.

Mocha said:
It's nice to see you using her some more, Dark - despite her not being your main. You have good experience offline, and you try to actually think in your matches. Being constantly focused with Zelda is even more prominent than many characters above her because she can't afford to auto-pilot too much and make mistakes. I could tell that in these matches you were trying to make some reads and punish. And I know I've said this before, but lag does make it harder to punish things because of timing, though the same could be said for your opponent.

Video 1: Nice use of down tilt. Zelda's smashes are very overrated, don't always think your'e safe with them. Yes, I encourage you to use them for reads, just don't use them as a panic option like I do when I feel uncomfortable in a situation. Though at times I noticed you'd run away and try to reset your position, which was good. Yoshi isn't bad at getting in your face very fast either, especially with that crazy air speed. His nair is annoying and beats Din's, among a couple of other moves he has.

Video 2: Yoshi and his giant head's hitbox for upsmash...urgh. I liked this match, your reads were more consistent and they were successful. I don't recommend always starting the match with up b unless your opponent somehow always falls for it. When I up b into people (or up b in any other situation where I'm not trying to recover) I try to do it unexpectedly or for a mindgame because in general the move is punishable, sadly. I loved your up air reads and nice use of Nayru's Love in this one. You didn't spam it, and used it appropriately.

Video 3: Wow a 7 minute match. You two were pretty patient (well he only got more patient toward the end) but nicely done. Was funny watching eggs getting reflected at him while be made an attempt to punish.

Video 4: He was all over you in this one, especially toward the end. I can't believe how many dash attacks you hit him with lol, he finally baited with a pivot grab. I'm actually surprised this Yoshi doesn't use as many pivot grabs as most Yoshis I've seen do.

Video 5: Eggs are annoying. Nice kick at the end.

Video 6: Using your smashes more conservatively nice work. Your dash attack punishes remind me about what you told vs Peach when she's pulling out turnips whenever Yoshi is throwing eggs at you

Video 7: I noticed you like to DI with up air. Is that accidental or is that the aerial you're most comfortable DI'ing with? I feel like you could live longer by DI'ing with down air in most situations, or back air for momentum canceling. But if up air works for you that's fine too. I knew another really good and underrated Zelda who liked to DI with up air.

Video 8: Nice job stock tanking there at the end. You both lived forever lol

Thanks for the tips. And the upair DI is a habit from Peach. I need to learn how to do that N-B momentun cancel on reaction. I'll practice that.

Courier said:
I'm thinking the up air is something picked up from Peach, since Peach's up air is her quickest aerial.

I didn't get around to watching all the vids but Dark.Pch I like your Zelda so far. Your Peach is, without saying, very good and entertaining to watch. I learned a few things from your tutorials!

Queen B. Kyon · Mar 9, 2012

Its funny. I like using Zelda as well lol

ed knows what's up. That walking downsmash <3

Alacion · Mar 9, 2012

Why is it that nearly every Peach/Zelda main uses the other character as well? Hmm...

Dark.Pch · Mar 9, 2012

Must be some princess thing. I used her in melee as well. She was about the only character I could use in melee outside of peach. Brawl is the same way.

I added three extra videos to my last post. G&W match up seems to be a pain. But I find it easier to hit him if you just go near him or stage in his range and let him though the first punch. Though this could be just me.

Fuujin · Mar 9, 2012

Why is Dark Pch here posting these wifi matches....?

With a Zelda Icon too...

#HBC | Scary · Mar 9, 2012

I know what's up Kyon!!

Also, I can't use Peach to save my life. Maybe a tad but that's all.

Mocha · Mar 10, 2012

Dark.Pch said:
After reading all this here I went and played some more with Zelda and got matches recorded. Think I played a lil on point this time around then before. least with me messing with my opponents head more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afJZKoKj09A&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=5&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YnyA9iWWJ0&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=4&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRlCfn-srBQ&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=3&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S02U71st0IE&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=2&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7k8Lm9hRbo&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=1&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFTxy1ktxek&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=3&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osEBj1QJdO4&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=2&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mpgYnv-_WE&list=UU6KVJ1LdHsPyqUaAJWnNKjA&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Just finished watching the ZSS video so far, and going to finish the rest of the others. Considering the SD at the start (which sucks when that happens), you still pulled through pretty well. Lylat edges are also booty.

Fuujin said:
Why is Dark Pch here posting these wifi matches....?

With a Zelda Icon too...

He seconds Zelda

Mocha · Mar 11, 2012

On another note, I finally got around to working on that video (was painful to make because I don't have a recorder on this computer and I have to keep bugging people irl to use it, and I'm such a bother). Please, no excessively negative feedback or comment on how 'useless' it is. I almost didn't even post this because I knew the reaction the boards would give, but something told me that a few people might actually enjoy it, so for their sake, here it is:

---

Mindgame Techniques with Zelda: Nayru's Love Boost/Follow-Ups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEj3h-82esk

---

I have another video regarding up air cancels, but I'm not sure if I'll post it or not because I'm just feeling so out of it right now ;_;

Alacion · Mar 12, 2012

Added that!

Mocha · Mar 12, 2012

Thank you ;o

Queen B. Kyon · Mar 12, 2012

Here is the recent tournament of me vs ed again lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjM0TdsB92g&list=UUE6fuxlMAg5hT2x-rf1mkUg&index=6&feature=plcp

Our matches look like hate matches lol.

#HBC | Scary · Mar 12, 2012

Man you were on point...

Here's the set with HRnut as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ze_39jUdI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Mocha, just watched the vid you put up; awesome stuff!!! Got and idea or two from watching it!

Alacion · Mar 12, 2012

My heart sank when I saw that last game against HRnut

You were really impressive in that match! I can't believe somebody made... such a long song out of ICs' victory theme...

I also absolutely love your games with Kyon. His Peach is soooo good as well! Makes me really want to practise more with Peach >_>

I finally added the millions of Ed/Dark.Pch videos to this thread! Let me know of any mistakes!

Curtains! The Zelda Performance Thread! Critics Welcome~

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