Debunking the misconception: Wiimote and Nunchuk players are n00bs

[Wolf of Ice]

I use the D-Pad as a sort of C-Stick. I just shield grab anyway so whatever. Shield is easy to reach and so is the jump. The D-Pad was useless before to a casual like me.

 

[DaisukeNiwa]

Gamecube controller is top tier. It's most familiar and I believe it has button positions in the right places.

I use the Wiimote and Nunchuk because I believe a new game should be played with a new controller, otherwise it's just an expansion pack of Melee. Everyone has their preferences, and I understand most peoples' pain about how awkward some of the positions of the buttons are on the new contoller, but give it time, and like everything else in life, you'll get used to it.

All that aside, Wiimote and Nunchuk looks coolest when you're playing. You can stand and have your arms by your side and still play seriously, looking effortless.

 

[Formless]

I prefer the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo outside of the lack of C-Stick. The Wii Condom makes it very comfortable. I use the default scheme except I change the down D-Pad to jump and C to grab.

 

[Enoch-Fox]

when I use this I change
B -> Shield
C -> Special
Z -> Jump

and just to have special on the right remote as well, I change
DOWN ON THE D-PAD -> special

and turn off tap jump

this worked pretty well for me... if you're worried about missing i suppose you could just change the whole D-Pad to special but I've never messed it up myself. I like having all my motion on the chuck and all my attack options on the 'mote... the lack of a C-stick is brutal though.

 

[RBinator]

Having played Melee for years, naturally I prefer the GC controller, at least at the moment. The only thing I changed was turning tap jumping off, since I feel that gets in the way when trying to do a up tilt and I always jump using X and sometimes Y. As for the Nunchuk, couldn't you fix the lack of c-stick by mapping smash attacks to the d-pad, turning it into the c-pad or is there another factor here? I didn't really like using the classic controller because of the lack of handles to grip, lack of rumble, and I think the analog sticks are too close together.

Really, all four of the controllers are equal. A Wiimote user could beat a GCN pad user, and a Nunchuk user could beat a Classic Controller user. All that matters is that the player is used to the control scheme. I honestly like Wiimote and Nunchuk a lot better than the GCN controller. Don't get me wrong, the GCN controller was not bad, but the Nunchuk really made it better.

Actually, from an objective point of view, their not all equal...

1. Wiimote sideways lacks analog movement that the other three options offer.

2. Wiimote sideways also lacks the ability to do an aerial attack in the opposite direction you're moving while still maintaining full speed.

3. Minor, but you can only do one taunt instead of three that the other control options give you.

4. With all but the GC controller, you have to sync between Wiis and if there are multiple Wiis around and people syncing their controllers, you might sync to the wrong Wii. GC controller is just plug n' play with no problems.

5. Again with all but the GC controller, they run on battery life.

6. Some other points from an objective, not subjective view, that I missed.

 

[Ilucamy]

Nunchuck config is fine as long as you switch Z and C (Jump and Shield). For me, that configuration feels pretty comfortable. I just set every extra button to throw. (or any other button commonly used)

 

[Azrai]

To address the lack of c-stick on my n/w, I set my d-pad to smahes (c-stick) and it works relatively like a c-stick would. I can jump one way, smash the other and continue w/ my forward momentum. It takes a little getting used to to move my thumb up to the d-pad, but as soon as you have the muscle memory (thats what i call it...) then it's second nature.

Grabbing was a bit of a *****, but again, once I got the hang of it, it's not a problem. I can play zamus just as well now than with my gc or classic.

And some people mentioned battery life and no need to sync on the GCC. Well, you can also argue that the fact the its wired (other than a wavebird) is a hinderance. I can't use my GCC on my wii because the cable is not long enough and I'm not gonna re adjust my entertainmet system just to play with my, beat up, old school controller. Also, I have a charge station that I put my wiimotes in whenever im not playing, that plus the fact that every time I turn on my wii I can see just how much battery life is left, negate the "battery life" issue some claim.

~Azrai

 

[MrLegend]

I use the Classic Controller since my GCC is so busted that I have to fight to go straight in F-Zero. The classic seemed really bad at first but I tweaked the controlls and now its my most comfortable controller. It really is about comfort but the CC and GCC seem like the best options. The nunchuck setup lacks a c-stick (shaking is inacurate but if you train with it, it will be fine) and the wiimote is just too restrictive.

 

[Yangtze]

I use the Classic Controller since my GCC is so busted that I have to fight to go straight in F-Zero. The classic seemed really bad at first but I tweaked the controlls and now its my most comfortable controller. It really is about comfort but the CC and GCC seem like the best options. The nunchuck setup lacks a c-stick (shaking is inacurate but if you train with it, it will be fine) and the wiimote is just too restrictive.

the d pad is the c stick. like the person above u just mentioned

 

[mark.]

Sensei from TSA NJ uses the Wiimote so this misconception is different for me.

sensei is maad cool.
and i know there are a few other good melee players that currently use wiimote/nunchuk

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

I use the W&N set up with

A - Jump
B - Attack
C - Special
Z - Shield

D-Pad - Smash

1,2 1+2 = Taunt

It works fine for me. The reason A is Jump is because I intuitively hit it to jump when I picked up the pad for the first time. Same with Z as shield. C as Special and B as Attack was just something I got used to in order to accommodate my other buttons.

I always used Sheild Grabs in Melee, so I had no disadvantage in Brawl from using Z+B (in my case).

The D Pad as Smash allows a player to utilize C-stick like the GC, AND the have the luxury of not needing to move their thumb too far on the Mote.

The fact that the majority of the buttons are independently operated is awesome too. Only the D-Pad and A button need the same finger. As far as I can recall, thats an improvement on the GC isn't it?

The only ADVANTAGE I see to the GC is battery life and syncing at tournies. That alone might make me pick up the pad again. I'll see after my first brawl tournament!

 

[greenblob]

This is the ultimate controller for Smash:

What was Nintendo thinking when they created the button layout for the GC controller?

 

[kupo15]

I would like to defend the wii/chuck setup since it is my favorite style
i would have to agree that the first time i used it, i didn't like it so i switched to GC. It was ok but it got a little frustrated and switched back and now I would never go back.
If you think about it, it is not that different from GC. I made two changes (i think)

I changed down on the d pad to jump. (this is very similar to Y on the GCC)
Left/Right on D pad is my grab but i always use left.

So off the bat, you share many button layout as GC with my setup. Jump is similar to Y, A is A; B may not be in the same place but it is right under your fingertips so you can switch to it quicker, the analog is the analog, and shield is Z similar to L.

Thats all you really need. And when you go to grab, you are mainly know when you are going to use it so you are prepared with your thumb on left D.

Another possible added bonus. If I were to play melee, I don't think I will be as confused with the different play style since I am using a different controller.

Since Brawl is naturally slower than melee, I think mote/chuck is no more a disadvantage as the GCC. They both are equally as fast.

 

[kennypoopoo]

My old melee partner has brawl and ive been playing it the past couple days with him. I have always used the GCC and probably always will just because thats what im most comfortable with. But my buddy duffman plays with the wiimote/chuk and he says he would never go back to a GCC. He feels its easier to do all his smash attacks. He has said he has troubles grabbing from time to time in match though. On a somewhat seperate note though. I have heard that whe wii mote may be banned from tourneys because of setup time and syncing difficulties is this true ?? or just someone talking out there arse.

 

[kupo15]

On a somewhat seperate note though. I have heard that whe wii mote may be banned from tourneys because of setup time and syncing difficulties is this true ?? or just someone talking out there arse.

I don't know but I can't see this to be true. It takes two seconds to sync your mote with your personal settings. All you have to do is go in the names screen and press + and it transfers within 10 secs. Very easy and fast. Nintendo implemented custom controls and different types of control styles, it wouldn't be right to limit it solely to GCC.

 

[S-Blade]

Three of the controllers are equal. It's really hard (i.e. really hard.) to do utilts on wiimote without nunchuk. You'd have to take Tap Jump off (can you even do that on wiimote) and change it to A or something. I'd imagine the standard setup would be
B- Jump
1- Attack
2- Shield
1+2- Special
or something like that. I guess if you did do that you could pull up to the GCN controller's level with some effort but you'd still be facing some difficulty. One of them not being the lack of analog-sensitivity that everyone else complains about.

Either way, everyone in this thread has their head so far up their *** saying the GCN is totally superior when no one has learned to get serious, get cash, and buy an arcade stick if they love playing this game competitively so much. The responsiveness of the buttons and stick go an extremely long way compared to the (in comparison) ****ty-*** GCN controller. But the majority of the people who play this game seriously aren't nearly old enough to be working and have jobs (and be willing to spend $150 on a real quality modded or custom arcade stick and another $20 on a converter with zero input lag), so we won't be seeing anyone agree with me.

 

[themutt22]

I converted to the wii-nunchuck for a few reasons, I believe the positives outweigh the negatives for now at least.

Pros-
-Lots easier to shield once you get used to it. It sucks having to press the shoulder button all the way in every time you want to shield/dodge/tech, as opposed to a simple press on the nunchuck.

- The buttons are all VERY convenient actually. Left thumb goes on control stick as usual. left index can be used for jump and either the left index or middle finger can be used for shield, though index is probably better for preciseness. The only somewhat awkward part is the dpad on the wiimote, although I have gotten used to it, its not that far from the A button now that I am used to it.

-Gamecube controllers are getting hard to find, they aren't being manufactured anymore, so I wanted to somewhat futureproof myself. Those things get worn down by heavy usage.

Cons-

Cant do b/c sticking. This could become a factor later, but I never really c sticked. I shuffled my aerials with all buttons in melee, I seem to do alright without b-sticking and the like. We'll see how important it turns out to be.

Adapting to the new control scheme. - I lost track of how many times I tried to use the b button to z cancel, since it felt trigger like. Just soldier through it.


Overall, as a controller, I actually think that once I get used to it, the wiimote-nunchuck will be better. I still crave for the familiar gamecube sometimes though.

 

[wtZzz]

I am an expert with the wiimote + nunchuck, and I assure you the controls are fine. HOWEVER, the GC controller is much more smooth and responsive. I vowed to never use the GC controller for this game, however, after testing it out, I can honestly say its the way to go

Only pain and heartbreak lie in the wave motion for smashes. The D-Pad can not always be trusted for intricate moves. The control stick is much more inaccurate.

The only advantage to the wiimote is the comfort level.

 

[pimpostrous]

I find when i grip the wiimote, the 1 button is actually quite convenient to hit with the base of the thumb, which allows me to set that button as grab. This seems like a more intuitive setup for me since when i want to grab someone, i literally just grab the wiimote tighter. I find that its pretty much possible to do everything that a GCC can do with the W/C. As for the motion smashes, its quite effective for certain things, like dash+upsmash since all you do is dash and flick your right hand up. But usually, the d-pad suffices for a c-stick.
A suggestion to those who put down motion smashing, just try using in tandem with movement and you'll find that with a little practice, it once again becomes instinctive to jerk you hand when trying to do something, much like when beginners first play driving games, they try to lean to the side, thinking it would help them. However, with the wiimote setup, it actually does.

 

[BrawlBro]

I am an expert with the wiimote + nunchuck, and I assure you the controls are fine. HOWEVER, the GC controller is much more smooth and responsive. I vowed to never use the GC controller for this game, however, after testing it out, I can honestly say its the way to go

Only pain and heartbreak lie in the wave motion for smashes. The D-Pad can not always be trusted for intricate moves. The control stick is much more inaccurate.

The only advantage to the wiimote is the comfort level.

I dont really understand what you said there but i find smashing with a dpad 'easier 'than a cstick because you cant mess up the direction.
------------
The fact is the ONLY thing that could be considered worse with wiimote nunchuk is that to grab you have to hit two buttons but that can easily be learned and done just as fast as pressing one

To those who complain that it doesnt have a c-stick for smashes, I jsut set the Dpad for my smashes and it works great ,there is NO trouble moving the thumb, I use the bottom part of my thumb for pressing 'A' and the top part stays on the Dpad

wiimot nunchuk FTW!

 

[DraginHikari]

That's why custom control schemes are such an important part of this game: They can be altered to make it easier for each person's taste.

The Wiimote and Nunchuck are no expection, it took me awhile and about 25 moderations before I finally got it the way I wanted and it's worked fine for me so far. I haven't toyed with the shake-smash enough to make it work effectively.

The big thing for me was being able to change the D-pad to jump. This probably seems strange compared to most but due to a issue with cooranation in my hands. My hands are fidgy and I cannot always accurately operate things with senstive situations. However being able to set Jump to a much larger area has actually improved my air game alot more then I did before. Also because of the long cord the nunchuck uses it allowed me to space my hands out more and overall put less strain on my hands when I play for long periods of time.

It's little things like that can make a bigger difference, but it the long run it comes down to taste.

 

[really_calm]

Wiimote and Nunchuk really isn't all that bad. What a person thinks of as a button being in easy reach is all about getting use to where the button is. A person could argue that the C-stick is not in easy reach, but that's really all about practice. I can do alright with the wiimote and nunchuk if I reprogram the down on the d-pad as jump, then I can do everything I can do on the GC controller with practice.

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i'm not sure if anyone has posted this.... but in some ways (i know i'll be considered a noob for this) the wii-mote/nunchuck has advantages... one being that your hands are already placed on the "special," "normal attack," and "jump" simultaneously... therefore reducing the time it takes for your thumb to switch to the buttons on the other controllers....this aspect is an advantage in my opinion. the only true disadvantage would be the lack of c-stick...which if you need it, you can always make your d-pad become your c-stick

my setup :

z= shield
c= jump
a= atk
b= special
right or left on d-pad = side smash
down on d-pad = grab
and my up on d-pad is not used....although i suppose up smash or down would work, however the up is hard to get to with my thumb during tournament play

so based on this setup, i prefer the wii-mote/nunchuck due to the fact that most fingers are already placed where they belong, and another thing to point out....the d-pad and "A" button are closer than the x/y in comparison to the b on the gamecube controller

 

[BananaX]

Very true. I find that playing with the wiimote is similar to playing Halo with a Dance Dance Revolution Pad. There are certain things that are just too precise for such a blunt instrument.

QFT.

Rofl.

Seriously, though, in a technical sense, the GC controller is far superior to the Wii remote and marginally better than the 'chuck combo and the classic controller. That's not to say that through adaptability, training, configuration, or a combination of the three a someone couldn't excel with another option. Anyone could beat anyone with any controller, is what I'm trying to say. All the GC controller offers that the others don't is a primary technical advantage.

In fact, this is similar to the "nature vs. nurture" debate.

 

[MaverickZer0]

The only thing I see a Cube controller having an advantage over a seasoned Wiichuck/Wiimote/CC user, is that the Cube won't waste/run out of batteries.

 

[yoonie]

i use the wiimote/chuck and i actually like it a lot. with the dpad arrows mapped to smashes, i have it available for mortar sliding and such, while everything else isn't that different from the GC controller, except grabbing- shield grabbign just isn't the same.

 

[Dante X]

I prefer the GameCube controller, but if someone wants to use the wiimote/nunchuck then more power to them.

 

[Jump20X6]

My brother and I recently attended the C3 tournament in Virginia. Out of 71 players, my brother placed 9th and I finished 17th. We both use the Wiimote/Nunchuck setup. Also placing 9th was Chu Dat, who was using the Gamecube controller.

By that I really don't think Wiimote/Nunchuck is any worse than GC.

 

[rigapeen]

as of now, the wiimote is viewed solely as an insulting/proposition betting option. similar to beating someone with bowser in melee.

being beat with bowser in melee is still insulting, however ICs was discovered to be awesome so i could change my mind later.

 

[Rhambo]

Doesn't Chu-Dat use the wii/chuck combo?

The Wii/Chuck, GC Controller, and Classic are all equal in my opinion. Its the sences of finding your own control sceme. People are so hooked on using the GCC that yes, anything else is a sin and n00bish, but thats not the case at all. (Just the Wiimote is for beginners. Its already been stated by Sakurai himself, where and when I have forgot but I am 100% sure it was stated sometime ago)

Sakurai put these 4 options so people can be confortable when they play. None of us were good when we first picked up the controller, so we adapted to the controls. Now theres an opertunity to back off from the default and really experience the comfort of a control scheme that you decide. Its just that everyone is used to the controller we have been using for 8 years.

Who is Chu-Dat?

The Wii/Nunchuck, GCC, and Classic are all very fun and equal- I just think it depends on the person. However, the Wiimote by itself is no good. (It hurts my left hand ) But yeah the four options are there so people can choose how they want to play.

 

[BananaX]

Very true. I find that playing with the wiimote is similar to playing Halo with a Dance Dance Revolution Pad. There are certain things that are just too precise for such a blunt instrument.

QFT.

Rofl.

Seriously, though, in a technical sense, the GC controller is far superior to the Wii remote and marginally better than the 'chuck combo and the classic controller. That's not to say that through adaptability, training, configuration, or a combination of the three a someone couldn't excel with another option. Anyone could beat anyone with any controller, is what I'm trying to say. All the GC controller offers that the others don't is a primary technical advantage.

In fact, this is similar to the "nature vs. nurture" debate.

 

[TheHoustonKid]

Actually, the Nunchuk DOES have a "c-stick." It's called shake smash. Granted, you need to be ACCURATE with it, but it IS there.

True... and once you get used to it you don't have to worry about your smash. the only disadvantage is you cant charge your smash. For me this isn't a problem because I only charged my smash before when I would hit a guy off and wait for him to fly back and then wail on him. But I use metaknight now so I just chase the *******s and then fly back. The shake smash is fine for anybody who likes to use long flying characters like MK, Kirby, Peach, Pit, ect.

 

[Wintre]

I personally found the Wiichuck combo to be the most effective aside from battery life as a person with large hands. When using the GCC, I found myself having to wrap my hand around the controller in a claw-esque form to find it comfortable, whereas I find the wiichuck quite comfortable for my fingers.
I first tried it out due to the fact that I, like some others who've posted before me have been in the situation where there were too many people and not enough GCC's to go around, but afterward found myself desiring to use the wiichuck combo instead. I found the default controls to be inferior for those trying to use advanced techs and one button grabs, but after reconfiguring the controller, I find my setup to be quite effective, at least for playing with Diddy and Olimar, my main and secondary respectively.

I use the 1 as jump because of the Diddy Glitch for the Jump+Up Special simultaneously for an ascending barrel launch.

My setup is as follows:
Tap Jump- Off
Smash Shake- Off

A- Jump
B- Special
A+B- Shield
D-pad Up- Up Smash
D-pad Sides- Side Smashes
D-pad Down- Attack
C- Grab
Z- Shield
1- Jump
2- Taunt
1+2- Taunt

 

[mesCo]

hmmm... well i never played melee, nor do i have a gamecube controller, so i use the wiimote and nunchuk. The first week i got the game, i messed around with the controls. This is what i use currently:

A - attack
B - special
D-pad - all the smash attacks
Z - shield
C - jump
A+B - grab

It works pretty well.. but i sometimes have trouble shorthopping. Just got to get used to it.
From what i can tell, the gamecube controller is better cuz it has an extra option (c-stick, whatever that is). I think they should have made it possible to bind the - button. I wanted to use grab as one button instead of A+B to be more convenient.

To wintre:
you dont have a good old attack binded! How do u do nairs and stuff

 

[sFoster]

You guys saying the wiimote/nunchuck is limited are insane.
It's actually much easier to pull off certain thing using this control scheme, rather than the GC controller.

 

[sFoster]

BTW, as an endorser of the nunchuck combo - I do have to say the TC was a little noob..
The C-Stick is essential, and has many uses that cannot be replicated by control-stick+A

After much testing, it's possible to do all things with both controllers.
The primary advantage of the nunchuck is the two left trigger buttons..

You need LEFT trigger buttons, because it's the right hand operating the c-stick/smash-pad
This allows you to emulate b-sticking by pressing special w/ the left hand, and smash-stick w/ the right.

Also with dsmash on the nunchuck it's REALLY easy to do a dash attack canceled into usmash.
Like ..ridiculously easy, and that is kind of hard to pull off w/ the standard GC settings.

The one thing that the GC controller to me, honestly seems to be superior w/ is the control stick.
The control stick has a slightly smaller box to move around within.. and that makes it easier to foxtrot and pivot. On the nunchuck you have to move a further distance to go from side to side and it's not as easy.

Plus with the nunchuck, the control stick is not attached to anything - You have to be really careful not to let your hand go sideways.. It can point in any direction, and that will screw you up when you need to quickly press somewhere.. especially if your life depends on pointing to one of the non-eight primary directions, such as with zelda's recovery

 

[BEES]

I tried the wii/chuck controller, and it wasn't for me, but I wouldn't call it inferior. I tried setting the D-pad to smashes, but doing all the jumping/shielding with my left hand felt awkward. It was better, but I just couldn't rewire myself to do recoveries with it.

I might try B-sticking the D-pad because I had trouble getting B-moves to happen correctly with the trigger. Sometimes B-up would be B-forward. Sometimes B-forward would be B-down. Similar problems I had when I originally learned the controls for Melee.

Unless I find a wii setup that I can easily adjust to, I'm sticking with the gamecube.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

Okay, after using the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo for the first 2 months of gaming, I tried going back to the GC. After using it for a week, I can say this.


The GC is MUCH more responsive and accurate on its button inputs, but its lacking on its C-stick and Analog sticks. This may be the age of my controllers, but that unlikely, I had no issue with Melee in terms of control. The GC has more buttons then you need, thats good for setting up buttons, but since the controller it essentially focused on your two thumbs, it doesn't give all that much extra control.

The Wii/Chuck however, is less responsive on the button inputs, but its Analog is superior. The issue of the C-stick is migrated by putting the D-Pad to Smash. It's greatest boon is in the 5 fingers it uses to control. Your index and thumbs aren't biased in placement. You right thumb has exactly 1 more button to hit then the other figures, and that just to hit the D-pad. If you assign smashes to D-pad, and the four important things; sheild/attack/special/jump to the remaining buttons, you only miss grab. Thats a NON-ISSUE if you always shield grab. So, your finger all operate their unique button, giving you more speed on the tap with practice. Also, you can Jump/C-stick/Move with all different fingers, thats amazing for spacing aerials.


Conclusions? Both controllers have their merits. The GC offers more comfort to older pros, and more buttons to configure if your of that school. The Wii/Chuck combo is infinitely better for control though, as it allows you to use 5 fingers to operate, instead of 4.


Not sure if anyone will agree with me though. =/

 

[sFoster]

I tried the wii/chuck controller, and it wasn't for me, but I wouldn't call it inferior. I tried setting the D-pad to smashes, but doing all the jumping/shielding with my left hand felt awkward. It was better, but I just couldn't rewire myself to do recoveries with it.

I might try B-sticking the D-pad because I had trouble getting B-moves to happen correctly with the trigger. Sometimes B-up would be B-forward. Sometimes B-forward would be B-down. Similar problems I had when I originally learned the controls for Melee.

Unless I find a wii setup that I can easily adjust to, I'm sticking with the gamecube.

Indeed the smash(d)-pad has given me many of the same troubles, but there are some exceptional functional uses for it as you've said.

I ordered one of these in the mail the other day, but it hasn't come yet:

http://www.uberreview.com/wp-content/uploads/wii-multi-complex-mini-stick1.jpg

Looks absolutely amazing, I will post a review once it comes in..
I am pretty accurate at this point with just the d-pad, and I think with the right control schema the GC controller can be made to be functionally equivilanet. (L-Special R-Jump Z-Attack)

You can accomplish all of the same ATs this way, with the same ease as the nunchuck-combo, but I really hate the huge L and R buttons.

That has made it really difficult for me to time my special with the c-stick, and it is very important to me to be able to replicate both c-sticking and b-sticking advantages. Is there a GC controller without the jolly green giant sized L&R triggers I could order? Just something with normal buttons up top, and without the analog sticks crammed next to each other.

I tried the turbothruster, and that thing was a TOTAL joke.
The two analog sticks were right next to each other, so pressing (control-stick->right) and (c-stick<-left) would smash my thumbs together before the analog sticks even registered a sideways tap

 

[Pyronic_Star]

i will probably get flamed by this ....

logically speaking, taking all experience out.... the wii-mote/nunchuk is superior to the gc controller. this being due to the location of the buttons. on a game cube controller, your thumb had more buttons to switch between, x/y b a and c-stick when one uses the wii-mote/nunchuck the thumb has the d-pad and a button to deal with, therefor logically making the gc controller disadvantageous . the wii-mote/nunchuk does make one use both of their index fingers, however at any given time, a finger/thumb only has to deal with two sets of buttons opposed to the gc controller. any player can compete with another player using any of the 4 controls, however on a button to button bases without applying experience or anything of that nature, the wii-mote/nunchuk is locially better than the gc controller

now after reading this, opposed to flaming please re-read it with an unbiased thought process that applies strictly logic and you will see what i mean

edit: nvm this, someone has, for the most part, given the same argument