Dispute Ended: New Sakurai intervew - Wavedashing was intentional

[hippochinfat!!]

I say we ban anybody who tries to play this semantics game.

I used wavedashing and I have no problem with people who use it I'm just saying that they didn't intentionally put it in the game.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Combos were not intentional, therefore combos must be bad.
[/sarcasm]

What exactly is wrong with exploits again? That's present in almost every competative game.

 

[cwjalex]

It's sad that not all people feel that way. And I think arrowhead is on our side it seems like you were arguing against what he said lol.

was my post that difficult to understand? I am not arguing against what he said, I quoted it because I thought it was an extremely good post...not that I disagreed with it.

 

[payasofobia]

'And it also goes back to wanting to make something different from Melee and giving players the opportunity to find new things to enjoy.'

I think that sakurai wanted is to make us begin from 0. Where is the fun in waveshining right from the beginning of the game, instead of finding a new way to waveshine?
If he kept the game mechanics just like melee, then there would be almost nothing new to discover, right now, melee is like an abandoned coal mine; there is nothing new to discover.

With brawl, we once again are in the part where we need to improve, to become better.
Thats where the fun is, trying to find ways to get over the game limits and improve even more, not in being a very good brawl player because you were very good at melee.

 

[heroboy]

"Combos were not intentional, therefore combos must be bad."


They were in melee, and took them out in brawl! SEE I TOLD YOU THEY WERE A GLITCH.

 

[Rebel581]

None of you are computer programmers. Any computer programmer would know this one rule.

"It's not a glitch, it's a new feature."

 

[BIG C]

If you just got your friend into Melee, and you're a pro, he will never win. And he won't get better, because he'll never really have a chance to try.

It was unfair to beginners is what Sakurai means.

I don't agree myself, there should be a gap. A big gap. But I'm not the dev here.

Rofl that's why like when tink got me into melee I quit and didn't get any better ROFL.

 

[BlackPanther]

was my post that difficult to understand? I am not arguing against what he said, I quoted it because I thought it was an extremely good post...not that I disagreed with it.

Lol yes it was. I knew what you were talkin about but I thought it was directed towards him for some reason xD. Anyways goin back to what I was sayin, it was intentional no matter how you look at it, it was intentional indirectly but intentional nonetheless. They were perfectly capable of programming the airdodge to not do what it does with wavedashing. Even when you you say that it was intentionally left in there, you're still puttin the word intentional in there. Why the heck does it matter anyway? It wasn't a glitch it didn't break the game, it only helped it, gave some of the lower tiers a better movement game it wasn't bad in any way shape or form.

 

[WiiwanttoBrawl]

that doesn't mean it was intentional it just means they didn't bother to take it out when they found out about it.

 

[LouisLeGros]

****, someone already Identified the line from the Mastodon song at the begining of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force Movie (Cut You With A Linonlium Knife).


Also someone said Wavedashing was the least important exploit in Melee... I would say it was probably the most important. I mean how can things like moonwalking compare?

 

[Rampage]

What a crotch stain...

 

[ROOOOY!]

FUN IS NOT INTENDED FOR BRAWL.

NO ADVANCED PLAY!

NO REWARDING COMPETITIVENESS!

NO NON-GIMPED FINAL DESTINATION!

FINAL MILKING OF YOUR WALLETS...ATION!

No, it all makes sense to me now. Without wave-dashing, this games is no longer fun!!!!!!!!
*cries sarcastically*

 

[Attractive Penguin]

So what about this?

Brawl =/= competitive game.

 

[Nobie]

Is it so hard to understand and accept the idea that a game can reward your dedication and skill by increasing your chances of winning but still not guaranteeing 100% that you win against a lesser opponent?

It's not like you're punished for being a better player. It's not like they take a bat to your knees if they find out that your timing is too good. All Sakurai has done in making it a "party" game is present the idea that no matter how large the skill gap is, there's at least a small window of opportunity for a worse player to win.

So the game can still be learned, you can still increase your skill to be better than another player. It's just that the concrete win/loss record will not reflect this 100%.

So is it really just all about that precious screen at the end where you're posing instead of clapping your hands?

 

[LouisLeGros]

for tournament play yes

 

[cwjalex]

Lol yes it was. I knew what you were talkin about but I thought it was directed towards him for some reason xD. Anyways goin back to what I was sayin, it was intentional no matter how you look at it, it was intentional indirectly but intentional nonetheless. They were perfectly capable of programming the airdodge to not do what it does with wavedashing. Even when you you say that it was intentionally left in there, you're still puttin the word intentional in there. Why the heck does it matter anyway? It wasn't a glitch it didn't break the game, it only helped it, gave some of the lower tiers a better movement game it wasn't bad in any way shape or form.

I never even talked about whether it was intentional or not...I couldn't care less...I use it, anyone else can use it because it's ridiculously easy to do.

My post was about people who complain about it as a glitch or an exploit tend to suck at the game and use it as a crutch to explain their scrubiness.

 

[Sonork]

I'm happy they took it out, no need to push 2-3 buttons at once to simpily move around effectively. imo.

 

[metroid1117]

I'm going to use this to counter any remaining "WAVEDASHING IS A ****ING GLITCH!!" arguments on YouTube .

 

[Dark Sonic]

I'm happy they took it out, no need to push 2-3 buttons at once to simpily move around effectively. imo.

Then you are lazy and don't deserve to become good at this game. If you seriously cannot take the 10 minutes in training mode required to learn wavedashing, then you have no place in competative play. If you're character did not need wavedashing and that's why you chose not to learn it, fine. But if you think wavedashing was somehow hard, then you should never ever attempt to play any other fighter competatively, or you'll be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Firus]

Then you are lazy and don't deserve to become good at this game. If you seriously cannot take the 10 minutes in training mode required to learn wavedashing, then you have no place in competative play. If you're character did not need wavedashing and that's why you chose not to learn it, fine. But if you think wavedashing was somehow hard, then you should never ever attempt to play any other fighter competatively, or you'll be in for a rude awakening.

Nice rant, but I think you should read his post over again. He said he's happy that he doesn't need to use it anymore. He never said he didn't know how to do it, he never said it was hard, he's saying that it was obnoxious to have to use it to get around. Meaning he's just glad he doesn't need to use it anymore.

Unless I misinterpreted his post.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

I'm happy they took it out, no need to push 2-3 buttons at once to simpily move around effectively. imo.

A boost smash requires: Run, C-stick down, Z+Cstick Up. 4 Inputs.
Heck now no one can move effectively.

Nice rant, but I think you should read his post over again. He said he's happy that he doesn't need to use it anymore. He never said he didn't know how to do it, he never said it was hard, he's saying that it was obnoxious to have to use it to get around. Meaning he's just glad he doesn't need to use it anymore.

What makes it so obnoxious if it was not hard easy and he didn't know how to use it he knew how to use it.

Walking requires more neural activity than pressing 3 buttons -.-;;.

 

[frankisvital]

Not to nitpick, but shouldn't this be in the Melee section. I mean, it's really irrelevant now, and saying you're just bringing it up to "rub it in the face of n00bs" is just like ripping open a wound that's almost healed.

It's not important anymore, at least not in the Brawl section. Let it go.

 

[Dustero]

It sounds like to me that it wasn't intentional in Melee, but they knew about it and decided not to take it out, but in Brawl they decided to take it out.

 

[SmashBro99]

This ends nothing lol.

As someone said before, WDing was left in because he figured it wasn't a big deal, it's not like he approved of it as we learned to use it. He didn't know it could be abused.

 

[RyuuAqua]

The more likely story is that in the long period of bug testing, someone tried to shorthop-airdodge as quickly as possible and slid one way or the other. Sakurai and his team of developers most likely made little of it besides "Oh, interesting! If you directional airdodge as your character's bending his/her knees, you'll slide a bit along the ground!" It was, of course, impossible to foresee that it would have any strategic significance or that anybody would discover it, much more impossible even to foresee that it would dominate competitive play.

It then makes sense for Sakurai to have left in what looked like a cool sliding maneuver instead of reworking the airdodge system of an already-rushed game. When he saw what wavedashing did to competitive play, he decided to remove it, because he didn't realize before that it would be such a huge thing in Melee.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol they took out wavedashing but left in all sorts of ridiculous quirks that are more character specific. Sakurai: "I think Ness is too good in melee so I'm going to close the gap by making it harder to recover on the right side of stages than it is on the left side of stages" Those of you who play Ness and Lucas know what I mean. Sakurai, you're an idiot.

 

[P.E]

Points don't matter. They have to be dumbed down to blunt child-safe nubs so no one will have an advantage. Sakurai said so.

Having more experience is always an advantage, don´t you think?

 

[Ciel~Image]

We've all known for a long time that it was an exploit. Glitch and exploits are two very different things. They knew it was in there and possible, but they didn't intend for it to be used how it was.

I am glad you know their minds inside and out~!

igneous ~ seer of the eastern winds *makes offeringf of 6 m cnuggests*

 

[P.E]

Also, there were far more important reasons to remove wavedashing besides some general dumbing down of the game. It's way more complicated than that. It would have been impossible to adequately balance the characters with wavedashing in mind, for example...at least with the properties it had in Melee.

Good point. Wavedashing made the balance in Melee everything but perfect.
In my point of view they didn´t build the game around wavedashing but the left it in intentionally.

 

[Sephiroth31]

Sakurai: helps to level the playing field. It wasn't a big priority or anything, but when we were building the game around the idea of making it fair for everybody...

My friend flipped out when he read this . He's one of those people who was used to ****** everybody in melee.

Well, I kind of agree that it certainly seperated the pros from the noobs, but not really. The only thing I utilized wave dashing for was mind games. It was stuff like the pillar combo (with falco) and edge techs that made me better than most of my friends. The L-cancelling and shield grabbing also made a big difference between great and good players.

 

[P.E]

I agree.

How sad is it that he puts in random things like items, stage hazards, and tripping just so the noobs who are completely horrible at the game can win? I love 2/3 of those (tripping being the exception) but to put them in so the noobs can win? If you put effort in, there should be a gap between you and someone who just picked up the game.

Are you kidding? Items (except hearts that appear in front of the noob) and stage hazards are a disadvantage for noobs! But if you can´t avoid stage hazards way better than a noob, you shoudn´t assume you´re good at this game.

 

[Firus]

Are you kidding? Items (except hearts that appear in front of the noob) and stage hazards are a disadvantage for noobs! But if you can´t avoid stage hazards way better than a noob, you shoudn´t assume you´re good at this game.

I do fine with items, and I dodge stage hazards nearly flawlessly--I know what I'm doing with those. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is with the fact that Sakurai wants the noobs to have a good chance so he adds random elements that can (whether or not they do all of the time) screw up the most experienced players because of simple bad luck. In other words, it's the principle of the thing, not what actually happens.

If I'm not explaining this well, then go to this thread and read the first post.

 

[Kelexo]

A glitch is considered: Anything in a game or programs code that was unintentional after the release of that product. So, since they knew about it in the development of Melee, they INTENTIONALLY put that feature in the game. Give him some credit for once people. Good night, it's over, you can all now get on with your lives.

Yes, because there was a programming error they didn't care to fix, he intentially added it as a feature.

Because adding it as a feature means he could have totally added said feature by not even trying to add it so it means he meant to add it.

 

[P.E]

I do fine with items, and I dodge stage hazards nearly flawlessly--I know what I'm doing with those. I don't have a problem with that. My problem is with the fact that Sakurai wants the noobs to have a good chance so he adds random elements that can (whether or not they do all of the time) screw up the most experienced players because of simple bad luck. In other words, it's the principle of the thing, not what actually happens.

If I'm not explaining this well, then go to this thread and read the first post.

I would agree with you, if you were talking about items only. But stage hazards actually increase the gap between a noob and a good player and the good player should save his excuses when hit by a stage hazard. They even add more strategy to the game since a good player would try to "push the hazard to the enemy". (E.g. the lava in the Metroid Level)

BTW I read the 1st post and the link.

by making it harder to recover on the right side of stages than it is on the left side of stages" Those of you who play Ness and Lucas know what I mean.

What do u mean? You´re talking about a symmetric stage, aren´t you?

 

[Xigger]

How can any idiot have ever viewed it as a glitch? It was personalized for each character, such as Bowser going in his shell or Mewtwo dissapearing.

 

[Angewomon]

How can any idiot have ever viewed it as a glitch?

Isn´t a glitch, true. It´s a exploit. Similar things anyway.

It was personalized for each character, such as Bowser going in his shell or Mewtwo dissapearing.

Do you know what "dodge" is?

 

[Xigger]

Isn´t a glitch, true. It´s a exploit. Similar things anyway.



Do you know what "dodge" is?

You move out of the way to prevent getting hit. You can dodge in 4 different ways.

I meant that it has personalized animations for each character which were obviously programmed, yet still viewed as a glitch by many.

 

[PwnyRide]

How can any idiot have ever viewed it as a glitch? It was personalized for each character, such as Bowser going in his shell or Mewtwo dissapearing.

Spoiler

10lols

 

[Kelexo]

You people are so thick, its hilarious. This is why I don't bother arguing about Wavedashing; might as well try to convince a 40-year-old that santa still exists.

 

[Scylen]

he'S LYING. that guy is petty and wants everyone to think what he does. its so easy to see through that.