Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

I feel like honestly the presentation won't be anything different than we normally get. It's about 40 minutes long, the length of Kazuya's, but some of that time is dedicated to revealing the character proper, and I imagine some time at the end will be dedicated to a small retrospective of sorts, which would probably put the actual new information at around the length of Byleth's presentation, which is pretty standard for a normal Sakurai Presents.

While the possibility of dedicating some time to introducing the character and series is something to think about, some of the other videos that were as long or longer didn't focus long on retrospective. The only times when Sakurai really really focused on retrospective was Kazuya and especially Terry. Probably because of Sakurai being a big fighting game fan and Fatal Fury being a big inspiration to him. But Minecraft in particular was a longer video and that hardly had any retrospective.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

While the possibility of dedicating some time to introducing the character and series is something to think about, some of the other videos that were as long or longer didn't focus long on retrospective. The only times when Sakurai really really focused on retrospective was Kazuya and especially Terry. Probably because of Sakurai being a big fighting game fan and Fatal Fury being a big inspiration to him. But Minecraft in particular was a longer video and that hardly had any retrospective.

That's true, but I more mean a retrospective on Ultimate and Smash in general rather than the newcomer's series, since this is the final presentation and is the culmination of a long period of Sakurai's life. Might be less than I think (perhaps he'll just reflect on it rather than anything specific), but I feel like it's a possibility.

He'll definitely do a look into the newcomer's series of course, but that would fall under "new information" in my eyes since it's relevant to the newcomer in question.

 

[Garteam]

I could see a bonus fighter happening. At the very least, it would explain the purpose of that final major announcement code after FP11's. I wouldn't bet on it personally, but I do believe it is a semi-realistic possibility.

However, this character would almost certainly be a stand-alone DLC added as a last-minute surprise near FP11's release because the dev team had a little extra time and wanted to give one last thank you for supporting Ultimate over such a long period of time, not a full Challenger Pack revealed at another award show two months after FP11.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I could see a bonus fighter happening. At the very least, it would explain the purpose of that final major announcement code after FP11's. I wouldn't bet on it personally, but I do believe it is a semi-realistic possibility.

However, this character would almost certainly be a stand-alone DLC added as a last-minute surprise near FP11's because the dev team had a little extra time and wanted to give one last thank you for supporting Ultimate over such a long period of time, not a full Challenger Pack revealed at another award show two months after FP11.

An echo would make the most sense (Violet aka “Jane” anyone?), though it could be anyone without a stage or spirit board. Hopefully they come with music

I still take Sakurai at his word that CP11 is the last character though. Any other piece of content like a stage pack or music pack being that bonus space tho, that’s fair game

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I could see a bonus fighter happening. At the very least, it would explain the purpose of that final major announcement code after FP11's. I wouldn't bet on it personally, but I do believe it is a semi-realistic possibility.

However, this character would almost certainly be a stand-alone DLC added as a last-minute surprise near FP11's because the dev team had a little extra time and wanted to give one last thank you for supporting Ultimate over such a long period of time, not a full Challenger Pack revealed at another award show two months after FP11.

Just wait until the "No new characters will be announced" line appears in the description of the video's tweet or the video.

 

[Garteam]

Just wait until the "No new characters will be announced" line appears in the description of the video's tweet or the video.

To be very pedantic, that line won't be there because a new character is getting announced. That being said, I'm very much anticipating an "only the character found in Challenger Pack #11 will be announced during this presentation" tweet closer to the release date.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

To be very pedantic, that line won't be there because a new character is getting announced. That being said, I'm very much anticipating an "only the character found in Challenger Pack #11 will be announced during this presentation" tweet closer to the release date.

yeah i fully expect the tweet of the video on October 5th to include a reply that says "No other characters will be announced in this presentation"

 

[Gengar84]

The only scenario I can see getting an extra character is if there is another Simon/Richter situation of echoes or semiclones that were developed simultaneously. I could see Scorpion and Sub-Zero potentially fitting this.

 

[Technomage]

The only scenario I can see getting an extra character is if there is another Simon/Richter situation of echoes or semiclones that were developed simultaneously. I could see Scorpion and Sub-Zero potentially fitting this.

While we're on the topic of Mortal Kombat reps, I'd like to say that if the final reveal is gonna be an equilibrium thing where both Darkhon and Galeem get killed, then I think Liu Kang would be a better fit than Scorps and Subs, since while the latter two still partake in fighting both lightsiders and darksiders, Liu Kang would make even more sense due to becoming a god in MK11.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Nintendo and Sakurai didn't say "Final" a bazillion times just so people could still delude themselves into thinking there's anything more substantial than a spirit event coming after FP11.

It's just a prank bro

 

[Gengar84]

While we're on the topic of Mortal Kombat reps, I'd like to say that if the final reveal is gonna be an equilibrium thing where both Darkhon and Galeem get killed, then I think Liu Kang would be a better fit than Scorps and Subs, since while the latter two still partake in fighting both lightsiders and darksiders, Liu Kang would make even more sense due to becoming a god in MK11.

That’s true but I don’t think Liu Kang is anywhere near as popular as the ninjas. It would be like getting Kilik instead of Nightmare for a Soul Calibur rep.

 

[Technomage]

That’s true but I don’t think Liu Kang is anywhere near as popular as the ninjas. It would be like getting Kilik instead of Nightmare for a Soul Calibur rep.

Yeah, that's true; just saying, is all (and also something worth thinking about, too).

On the other hand, we did get Kazuya instead of Heihachi (though I don't know how their popularities compare to each other).

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, that's true; just saying, is all (and also something worth thinking about, too).

Yeah, I would be down for Liu Kang if they based him off the first movie but I don’t see that happening.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I don't think it's been mentioned in the last page or two

But it'd be hella nice if we get an 8th echo fighter. Whether it's one for an already released fighter or for CP11

I mean c'mon, I'm tryna have an 8 player battle of all original echoes with no dittos

 

[Gengar84]

I don't think it's been mentioned in the last page or two

But it'd be hella nice if we get an 8th echo fighter. Whether it's one for an already released fighter or for CP11

I mean c'mon, I'm tryna have an 8 player battle of all original echoes with no dittos

I wish they regularly released new echoes and alt outfits for non-Mii characters throughout Ultimate’s lifespan. I feel like that was a big missed opportunity.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't think it's been mentioned in the last page or two

But it'd be hella nice if we get an 8th echo fighter. Whether it's one for an already released fighter or for CP11

I mean c'mon, I'm tryna have an 8 player battle of all original echoes with no dittos

…I just realized

they only said no echoes for pass 1
When pass 2 was introduced they said there’s “one more than last time”
This pass seems to focus on second chances

what if CP11… IS the echo? and they decided to give them a little more special treatment

this is how Octoling still wins. Thread over.

 

[Technomage]

Also, if we get a MK character, then it's stage is likely to have a bunch of other MK people as stage cameos; though I got an idea to add to the cameos: Have each character say things about one of the fighters present, akin to the intros found in MK's X and 11 (maybe even have them do their intro animations before making comments from the peanut gallery, though some of them, such as one of Kano's MK11 intros, might get omitted due to not being for good boys or girls).

 

[Garteam]

…I just realized

they only said no echoes for pass 1
When pass 2 was introduced they said there’s “one more than last time”
This pass seems to focus on second chances

what if CP11… IS the echo? and they decided to give them a little more special treatment

this is how Octoling still wins. Thread over.

Imagine the absolute anarchy that will unfold if the final Ultimate character is a Richter/Daisy-tier echo.

Bonus points if it's an echo of a character with a generally unpopular playstyle like Sonic.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wish they regularly released new echoes and alt outfits for non-Mii characters throughout Ultimate’s lifespan. I feel like that was a big missed opportunity.

It is pretty disappointing we only got seven echoes despite them being so hyped up at the beginning

and alt outfits for non-Mii characters… what I want is similar but it applies to everyone, even the miis, Kirby and the DLC

yes it’s the possession/clone puppet effects of WoL in normal play am I seriously the only one who’s wanted this ever since Hero’s trailer?? it would save me both countless WoL playthroughs to stage screenshots, AND me risking an online ban by modding my switch

 

[Eldrake]

I could see extra non-spirit content dropping post-CP11 if it's mii costumes. Nintendo and Sakurai wouldn't need to dedicate presentations to mii costumes because Sakurai don't need to explain freaking mii costumes.

 

[Gengar84]

Also, if we get a MK character, then it's stage is likely to have a bunch of other MK people as stage cameos; though I got an idea to add to the cameos: Have each character say things about one of the fighters present, akin to the intros found in MK's X and 11 (maybe even have them do their intro animations before making comments from the peanut gallery, though some of them, such as one of Kano's MK11 intros, might get omitted due to not being for good boys or girls).

That would be awesome but maybe too much work. Although it might not be much more than Palutena’s Guidances or Codecs. I mostly just want Techno Syndrome if we get an MK character (and Steve Blum as Sub-Zero).

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think alt costumes are much more complicated than people think. A simple skin might randomly break some random part of the code. You'd have to test interaction after interaction to make sure nothing unintentionally broke.

"What about mods tho?" Listen, I can't claim to be someone who knows much about this stuff, but I think many developers would tell you such simple things can unintentionally break a lot. That's why I think we don't have a ton of costumes.

 

[Technomage]

That would be awesome but maybe too much work. Although it might not be much more than Palutena’s Guidances or Codecs.

Yeah, that's true. Though how about a compromise: Just one character cameo, Johnny Cage. And have the funniest MK character be the one to make commentaries (whether he'd be another Palutena's Guidance or function more like Azurda back on the Cloud Sea of Alrest).

Speaking of which, what kind of (kid-friendly, by the way) things would Cage say if he were another Azurda?

 

[Gengar84]

I think alt costumes are much more complicated than people think. A simple skin might randomly break some random part of the code. You'd have to test interaction after interaction to make sure nothing unintentionally broke.

"What about mods tho?" Listen, I can't claim to be someone who knows much about this stuff, but I think many developers would tell you such simple things can unintentionally break a lot. That's why I think we don't have a ton of costumes.

That’s possible but I doubt that’s the case. As long as the alts don’t edit any of the bones in the model, it shouldn’t affect gameplay. I used to be a modder in Brawl and bone editing was the only real thing that potentially broke the game. Most mods worked fine without bone edits.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

About the WoL effects if they were to be used in normal play

they’re not so much a skin as an effect itself. Hero’s trailer had Female Robin with the Dark Realm aura when in canon when you free Robin from Dharkon’s control it’s Male Robin

maybe it’s just some kinda button you toggle or something like that? Pick the alt then toggle the possession/clone button with each alignment on or off

 

[DarkFalcon]

That’s possible but I doubt that’s the case. As long as the alts don’t edit any of the bones in the model, it shouldn’t affect gameplay. I used to be a modder in Brawl and bone editing was the only real thing that potentially broke the game. Most mods worked fine without none edits.

Again, I don't think mods and internal game development functions the same. Saying it does feels like a huge disrespect to game developers. If it was that simple I can't imagine why they wouldn't have capitalized on it, and anyone who says game devs are lazy can shove it.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

So my ideas of what will be voming in the October New Horizons update, i think we will be able to make more types of clothings like pants and skirts. Would be cool if we could make shoes

Well, the obvious thing is that The Roost is coming back.

I definitely have my eye on the Castlevania Advance Collection though.

 

[Gengar84]

Again, I don't think mods and internal game development functions the same. Saying it does feels like a huge disrespect to game developers. If it was that simple I can't imagine why they wouldn't have capitalized on it, and anyone who says game devs are lazy can shove it.

That’s why I said it was possible. Though I don’t really see why professionals working on the actual game would be worse than random teenagers at not breaking the game. I don’t know how the actual developers work but that would be odd. Plenty of other games have alt outfits and I haven’t heard an example of them breaking anything.

 

[DarkFalcon]

That’s why I said it was possible. Though I don’t really see why professionals working on the actual game would be worse than random teenagers at not breaking the game. I don’t know how the actual developers work but that would be odd. Plenty of other games have alt outfits and I haven’t heard an example of them breaking anything.

I'd imagine it's because it's never asked much what the issues of costumes can do. Game devs have deadlines. They can't spend a long time making costume after costume either at a higher expected quality than mods. I recently read an interview from game devs about how the smallest things can break something elsewhere. You then have to relay that information to other people as well.

I very much hate the "fans can do it better than the devs" shtick. I wish we had a bunch of costumes, but I have to believe there are many reasons why it hasn't happened.

 

[Shroob]

Lemme paraphrase the last two screencaps I got.


...I don't know if that's confident or just ****posting but it doesn't seem like they expect anyone else :V

LoL

Oh no

 

[Theguy123]

I’ve seen this idea thrown above by someone so I’m not the original to think off this idea but sakurai said no more new fighters. He never said no more echo fighters.

I wonder if the last fighter is coming with an echo fighter potentially.

if Not then I’m gonna go on a limb and say we’re getting a WOL expansion pass that adds more cutscenes and a side story that evolves around the dlc characters.




on a related kinda note, does anyone think the last character might be complicated on the same level as Steve. I feel as if, if it was a simple character they’d have been revealed in the direct.

The most complicated characters have been Steve, min min and terry who all got practically revealed in standalone sakurai presents (yes terry got revealed in a direct, however it wasn’t even a full trailer, just an announcement he was in development)

not counting hero and byleth as hero was a straight forward moveset, he just had a Bunch of spells and byleth had no other way of being revealed so they were forced into a stand-alone presents. Fp11 on the other hand had the opportunity to be at the September direct.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The only scenario I can see getting an extra character is if there is another Simon/Richter situation of echoes or semiclones that were developed simultaneously. I could see Scorpion and Sub-Zero potentially fitting this.

I've seen this a few times now, but I'm not sure Mortal Kombat will frankly ever come to Smash unless policies change, because like, while not explicitly banned, Mortal Kombat isn't sold in Japan and the only way people can get it there is buying it online or overseas, right? So if it can't be sold in Japan, likely for the same reason it's banned outright in places like China, I'm not sure I could see CERO going for MK in a children's party/fighting game?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe just officially adding all the DLC to the WoL maps could happen too, since this is the last DLC and maybe the longer while was pulling out all the stops like what I mentioned

 

[RileyXY1]

I've seen this a few times now, but I'm not sure Mortal Kombat will frankly ever come to Smash unless policies change, because like, while not explicitly banned, Mortal Kombat isn't sold in Japan and the only way people can get it there is buying it online or overseas, right? So if it can't be sold in Japan, likely for the same reason it's banned outright in places like China, I'm not sure I could see CERO going for MK in a children's party/fighting game?

I guess so.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd imagine it's because it's never asked much what the issues of costumes can do. Game devs have deadlines. They can't spend a long time making costume after costume either at a higher expected quality than mods. I recently read an interview from game devs about how the smallest things can break something elsewhere. You then have to relay that information to other people as well.

I very much hate the "fans can do it better than the devs" shtick. I wish we had a bunch of costumes, but I have to believe there are many reasons why it hasn't happened.

I’m not claiming that the fans can do it better. I just don’t think alt costumes were a priority for the Smash developers.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Calling it now.

Father Balder is our final fighter to promote Bayonetta 3.

 

[Shroob]

Calling it now.

Father Balder is our final fighter to promote Bayonetta 3.

You've said this no less than 5 times, you know.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I’m not claiming that the fans can do it better. I just don’t think alt costumes were a priority for the Smash developers.

I don't think they were either. I just imagine there's unforseen issues a lot of people don't recognize which put it at a lower priority.

 

[osby]

You've said this no less than 5 times, you know.

And it still doesn't make any sense.

We all know Sakurai would choose Enzo.

 

[Gengar84]

I've seen this a few times now, but I'm not sure Mortal Kombat will frankly ever come to Smash unless policies change, because like, while not explicitly banned, Mortal Kombat isn't sold in Japan and the only way people can get it there is buying it online or overseas, right? So if it can't be sold in Japan, likely for the same reason it's banned outright in places like China, I'm not sure I could see CERO going for MK in a children's party/fighting game?

I don’t think it would be as big a deal as people think. Mortal Kombat has already had a children’s cartoon and the first two movies were really tame.