Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think Sakurai actually said he used anything from the Dragon King character at all(though the model is clearly the case, and maybe a move or two). It was specified he was inspired by Japanese Superheroes(being Kamen Rider and Super Sentai).

How much from F-Zero was taken into account isn't very clear. Him being fast and hitting hard is pretty much F-Zero, but that might be mostly it. Calling off your attacks and showing off is a Kamen Rider/Super Sentai thing, though. Falcon Dive is also the original special from the original that doesn't tie properly to Kamen Rider or Super Sentai from what I can tell. Maybe that really is inspired by the ability to Boost in the game.

 

[Shroob]

Captain Falcon's in this weird identity crisis spot.


His home series of games is racing

But his Smash incarnation is by far his most iconic and memorable portrayal



At this point, having an F-Zero game where you couldn't Falcon Punch someone in the face would be a crime.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think some lyrical song in an F-Zero GX story mode cutscene references the Falcon Punch too. That came before GPL (which I also didn’t really like, why the HECK is Jack Levin 24 in GPL but 19 in GX; where’s Daigoroh; and also why is “Captain Falcon” a title? No, not in this house, Captain Douglas Jay Falcon FOREVER )

IIRC Captain Falcon is a superhero figure, and has had more than one person under the mantle in F-Zero cannon. Also the plot is canonically non-canonical, and exists for the setting's enjoyment as a TV show, which is why it's allowed to be absolutely bonkers.

 

[Will]

Captain Falcon's in this weird identity crisis spot.


His home series of games is racing

But his Smash incarnation is by far his most iconic and memorable portrayal



At this point, having an F-Zero game where you couldn't Falcon Punch someone in the face would be a crime.

You could have what I suggested earlier; standard F-Zero racing (with online of course) with a beat 'em up based Story mode (and obviously Story-related races).

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I think some lyrical song in an F-Zero GX story mode cutscene references the Falcon Punch too. That came before GPL (which I also didn’t really like, why the HECK is Jack Levin 24 in GPL but 19 in GX; where’s Daigoroh; and also why is “Captain Falcon” a title? No, not in this house, Captain Douglas Jay Falcon FOREVER )

“Captain Falcon” is a title because the title of “Captain” isn’t something you’re born with in real life.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Falcon Dive is also the original special from the original that doesn't tie properly to Kamen Rider or Super Sentai from what I can tell. Maybe that really is inspired by the ability to Boost in the game.

Sakurai kept boosting into walls and exploding confirmed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

IIRC Captain Falcon is a superhero figure, and has had more than one person under the mantle in F-Zero cannon. Also the plot is canonically non-canonical, and exists for the setting's enjoyment as a TV show, which is why it's allowed to be absolutely bonkers.

In GPL, yes. Not sure about the mainline games. Admittedly I didn’t read the comic that comes with the SNES game, but iirc some defunct F-Zero X site claimed CF’s real name was Douglas Jay Falcon, and I guess that’s the same one in GX

also, in Maximum Velocity, there’s a racer named Kent Akechi who claims to be the son of Captain Falcon. THE Captain Falcon aka Douglas Jay

… see THIS IS WHY WE NEED A NEW F-ZERO GAME THAT GIVES MORE CANON LORE. GPL is for all intents and purposes an alternate universe

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai kept boosting into walls and exploding confirmed.

Please, everybody does this. XD

 

[Schnee117]

Captain Falcon's in this weird identity crisis spot.


His home series of games is racing

But his Smash incarnation is by far his most iconic and memorable portrayal



At this point, having an F-Zero game where you couldn't Falcon Punch someone in the face would be a crime.

You could have what I suggested earlier; standard F-Zero racing (with online of course) with a beat 'em up based Story mode (and obviously Story-related races).

If only there was a studio with a history with F-Zero that can put out excellent brawlers with over the top moves and has had two sizable modes based around racing in their games...

 

[Idon]

If only there was a studio with a history with F-Zero that can put out excellent brawlers with over the top moves and has had two sizable modes based around racing in their games...

Can't wait for F-Zero: Like a Falcon.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I mean, if you think about it Falcon represents F-Zero quite well. Not only is he fast but he requires precision and performing swift combos that take time to practice, just like how how in F-Zero you have to be precise with your movement and you have to memorize the tracks, just like how you memorize combos.

And Falcon represents the spirit of Smash so well. At its core, Smash can be very hype and unpredictable and his moveset is built just for that. His Falcon Punch which can be faced backward for extra damage and flair, the knee of justice, him having multiple moves that spike, and him overall being very energetic with his animations and quotes. The icing on the cake is the details like him being able to grab people with his recovery while he says "Yes!" in such a genuinely jolly tone. Even in a cast with 80+ characters, Falcon stands among them as one of the most hype characters to play and watch.

 

[N3ON]

Can't be mad at the moveset that gave us Falcon Punch, the knee, and Show Me Your Moves. Those are the fabric of Smash Bros, lol.

Plus it's not like Captain Falcon was running around doing stuff outside his racer beforehand and Sakurai ignored all of it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Can't be mad at the moveset that gave us Falcon Punch, the knee, and Show Me Your Moves. Those are the fabric of Smash Bros, lol.

Plus it's not like Captain Falcon was running around doing stuff outside his racer beforehand and Sakurai ignored all of it.

Well, there is a comic at best where he had a gun, and a bounty hunter. The bounty hunter thing shows up as an Event Match, but that's... it. The gun is never used once(nor would it make sense to use. It doesn't compliment his moveset at all).

 

[Technomage]

I don't think Sakurai actually said he used anything from the Dragon King character at all(though the model is clearly the case, and maybe a move or two). It was specified he was inspired by Japanese Superheroes(being Kamen Rider and Super Sentai).

How much from F-Zero was taken into account isn't very clear. Him being fast and hitting hard is pretty much F-Zero, but that might be mostly it. Calling off your attacks and showing off is a Kamen Rider/Super Sentai thing, though. Falcon Dive is also the original special from the original that doesn't tie properly to Kamen Rider or Super Sentai from what I can tell. Maybe that really is inspired by the ability to Boost in the game.

Your essay about Falcon's moves being flashy Super Sentai moves has got me thinking: If Black Shadow were to enter the roster as a Falcon echo, then I think his moves should be flashy and villainous; probably not a complete copy-paste of Ganondorf's moveset, since Ganon doesn't fit the Super Sentai spirit like Falcon does.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Your essay about Falcon's moves being flashy Super Sentai moves has got me thinking: If Black Shadow were to enter the roster as a Falcon echo, then I think his moves should be flashy and villainous; probably not a complete copy-paste of Ganondorf's moveset, since Ganon doesn't fit the Super Sentai spirit like Falcon does.

Don't they have a different bodyshape? It's why I consider Ganondorf the correct character to Echo. They're more accurate to each other.

But yeah, I agree with your point otherwise. It would fit quite well. Ganondorf's moves also fit Black Shadow well in some instances, due to it being dark magic, some he uses later on(especially the anime). This would be a good way to redo Gerudo Dragon, and you could more or less make him a cross between Falcon and Ganondorf to get the usual animations but also the spirit of F-Zero.

Plus, they could enact the Falcon Punch meme... only for Black Shadow to reverse it into his own win, making for a great trailer.

 

[Technomage]

Captain Douglas Jay Falcon FOREVER

Eh, I prefer Bart lemming, for some reason.

 

[Shroob]

Anyway


This isn't really relevant, but


I think we have a rough estimate to say when Min Min's presentation was filmed. Not really important, but I dunno if anyone's brought this up here.



In the Presentation, when Sakurai's playing as Min Min, despite what the subtitles say, Sakurai's quoting a popular at the time Japanese meme related to Social Distancing that only cropped up around the end of April. The subtitles don't make any reference to Covid or Social Distancing, but if you listen to his words, you can pretty clearly hear him say "Social Distance".


So, taking into account the meme, that means that Min Min's presentation had to have been filmed either late, late April, or sometime in May(Or June, I guess?).




That is all.

 

[SKX31]

I honestly have no idea what the legalities surrounding Pong are, but I assume since the Assist Trophy is called Color TV-Game 15, it's probably owned by someone...

Namco had the Japanese publishing rights it seems, the main problem there would be that Atari got absorbed in WB, but collapsed after the 83 crash. Atari continued as a new company, but reverse merged with another corp in '96. The current Atari rights holder is Atari SA - formerly Infogrames - in France.

More along the lines of, "Nintendo and Sakurai know this is gonna be the last Smash character for a good long time, so they might as well go out with a decent bang despite previous instances".

I could see that happening, although CP11 is in such an open-ended position that they could do anything with it.

I'm not sure how to interpret the moment they show off the CP11 letter either: chances are that it is just a wham shot to tell people "hey, you're getting one extra fighter!" and not meant to hint at how "big" CP11 is. But I'm not going to toss out the possibility that it could be that entirely.

Still, it might be best to play it safe: CP11 could be a lot of different characters, whether big or small.

Well, there is a comic at best where he had a gun, and a bounty hunter. The bounty hunter thing shows up as an Event Match, but that's... it. The gun is never used once(nor would it make sense to use. It doesn't compliment his moveset at all).

We may never know why the gun isn't used - unless Sakurai discloses that officially - but if I had to guess I'd presume that it's partly due to time constraints. Then again, changing Falcon's moveset now would probably be no bueno, and I'd gladly keep Falcon's moveset the way it is right now because of what people like DanganZilla5 and N3ON have said.

My only (relatively minor, but still) gripe is the turn around animation in Ultimate - but that hasn't stopped those that play him either. It helps that they've given buffs as compensation: including Raptor Boost, whose armor and consistent launch angle makes it very dangerous to challenge.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My only (relatively minor, but still) gripe is the turn around animation in Ultimate - but that hasn't stopped those that play him either. It helps that they've given buffs as compensation: including Raptor Boost, whose armor and consistent launch angle makes it very dangerous to challenge.

Does the animation have issues like speed/lag, or is it just cause it looks worse than you'd prefer?

Just to clarify. I get ya, though. His moveset flows real well. A lot of issues with moveset changes is people forget that it's not about canonical moves/references, it's about making sure it flows right. Not to say some movesets aren't awkward. Little Mac's is clearly the opposite of how he normally plays in Punch-Out!!, but he has a very comprehensive one with a clear point behind it. It could certainly be better, though. He's about combos, not power, after all. So in a way, he's channeling another Boxer(I haven't played in forever, so I don't remember any who are strictly about power. King Hippo maybe?), in a sense.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does the animation have issues like speed/lag, or is it just cause it looks worse than you'd prefer?

It's not really the animation that's the problem so much as the fact that he sticks his foot out so if you're trying to play just outside of your opponent's range they can still clip your foot.

EDIT: As for Captain Falcon's gun, you could use it in a throw animation without actually changing anything about the character if you cared enough to make him use it.

 

[Warumian]

Captain Falcon's in this weird identity crisis spot.


His home series of games is racing

But his Smash incarnation is by far his most iconic and memorable portrayal



At this point, having an F-Zero game where you couldn't Falcon Punch someone in the face would be a crime.

If they add special abilities to (F-Zero Switch 20??) depending of which vehicle you use, then Falcon's car can use one with that name and involves fire or a tackle, maybe??

 

[Idon]

If they add special abilities to (F-Zero Switch 20??) depending of which vehicle you use, then Falcon's car can use one with that name and involves fire or a tackle, maybe??

Or just do the thing in the anime where it turns into a beyblade:

"BOOSTO FIYAH"

 

[Mushroomguy12]

having an F-Zero game

Nintendo:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys! I know who the final fighter is!

Spoiler: The absolute truth with noo lies whatsoever:

It's a secret to everybody.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Guys! I know who the final fighter is!

Spoiler: The absolute truth with noo lies whatsoever:

It's a secret to everybody.

A secret to everybody sounds like an interesting fighter, I wonder what its moveset will be.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Guys! I know who the final fighter is!

Spoiler: The absolute truth with noo lies whatsoever:

It's a secret to everybody.

Sakurai doesn’t even know who CP11 is, they’ll just materialize in Smash on October 5th

 

[Warumian]

Nintendo:

View attachment 331740

And the reason is "we don't know what new gimmick we must introduce into a new game from a franchise that hasn't had a new game in almost 20 years." Jesus Christ sometimes I hate Nintendo's desire to innovate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And the reason is "we don't know what new gimmick we must introduce into a new game from a franchise that hasn't had a new game in almost 20 years."

And the reason is..."I AM THE PRESIDENT OF THIS GREAT UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!"

Brain, I love ya but you need to chill.


Anyway, I agree that their reasoning is dumb, and it's likely just PR speak for "lol nobody cares about F-Zero".

 

[Momotsuki]

I just got word from a friend's insider source on who FP11 is.
I wouldn't want to endanger them, so I won't specify who, but it's somebody pretty neat.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Brain, I love ya but you need to chill.


Anyway, I agree that their reasoning is dumb, and it's likely just PR speak for "lol nobody cares about F-Zero".

I understood that reference.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Really? bigger than Ahri?

Easily.

I feel like Chief and Sora would get huge reactions, but Crash could be pretty fun from a gameplay perspective since the DLC are so accurate to their series?

You think the character that has, like, 3 moves in his own game would be fun to play due gameplay accuracy...?

 

[Lamperouge]

Brain, I love ya but you need to chill.

HERE COMES THE BARBECUE!

 

[Technomage]

Nintendo:

View attachment 331740

Also Nintendo:

 

[YeppersPeppers]

【番組放送まであと8日】
2018年3月、Nintendo Directにて初登場映像が公開！
インクリングの参戦、そして2018年内に発売されることが発表。#スマブラSP、その全てがここから始まりました！https://t.co/NNEaR0r5Of pic.twitter.com/TgiX2sokit

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) September 27, 2021

Seems as though the official Twitter will be doing their own countdown to the final character, showing off the key moments and reveals since Ultimate's initial teaser.

 

[PSIGuy]

they had sakurai work on 5 characters at once for CP11 just so even he couldn't tell who it was

shame, the 4 that were decoys were all your favorites.

 

[Dukefire]

Just remember that figure theory is still relavent, but it isn't accurate of WHICH character is getting in.

Now, what are the characters that remains with a good figure Sakurai can use for reference.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just remember that figure theory is still relavent, but it isn't accurate of WHICH character is getting in.

Now, what are the characters that remains with a good figure Sakurai can use for reference.

I’m pretty sure some figures were used for miis too like Sans and Shantae

also would pre existing amiibo count?

 

[Shroob]

【番組放送まであと8日】
2018年3月、Nintendo Directにて初登場映像が公開！
インクリングの参戦、そして2018年内に発売されることが発表。#スマブラSP、その全てがここから始まりました！https://t.co/NNEaR0r5Of pic.twitter.com/TgiX2sokit

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) September 27, 2021

Seems as though the official Twitter will be doing their own countdown to the final character, showing off the key moments and reveals since Ultimate's initial teaser.

Oh this'll be cool.


A little trip down memory lane.

 

[MasterCheef]

Just remember that figure theory is still relavent, but it isn't accurate of WHICH character is getting in.

Now, what are the characters that remains with a good figure Sakurai can use for reference.

Ahri is still my top choice.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Honestly at this point, are there really any left field picks they could do?
Nintendo's broken so many fan rules and barriers. Only a few barriers remain imo.