Does anyone feel like...

[Marthmario]

Pikachu hasn't got that Project:M flair yet? He seems relatively unchanged.

 

[Player -0]

It's like some of the other Project M characters, they're good but not many people play them.

Axe went fairly even with Mango until the last few games in MELEE. Pikachu has received some buffs into Project M but his main playstyle has stayed true to Melee.


Speculation is the best.

 

[EIiitti]

Pikachu's playstyle way different from Melee and Pikachu has amazing stuff in PM. It's just not as apparent as with many other characters. Pikachu can WD/jump/attack/cancel landing lag almost completely from QA, B-reverse down-B for edgeguards while having slightly buffed everything.

It's true that Axe is the best Pikachu but Axe hasn't really incorporated many PM-exclusive techs to his Pikachu's playstyle. The world needs more Pika players.

 

[Marthmario]

What do you think is the reason for so few Pikas?

 

[Player -0]

Pikachu's playstyle way different from Melee and Pikachu has amazing stuff in PM. It's just not as apparent as with many other characters. Pikachu can WD/jump/attack/cancel landing lag almost completely from QA, B-reverse down-B for edgeguards while having slightly buffed everything.

It's true that Axe is the best Pikachu but Axe hasn't really incorporated many PM-exclusive techs to his Pikachu's playstyle. The world needs more Pika players.

I feel like the play style doesn't change drastically from melée. QaCing is a good option for space and mind games but the fundamentals of pika's game from melée feels untouched.

 

[Paradoxium]

He definitely lacks swag, which is a problem.
But he can surprisingly still gimp a ton of people. Quick attack gimping+shockwave gimps+uair+Dair
anyone below the stage is usually ****ed, and if he can chaingrab them he can bring them to the edge of the stage and drop them

 

[Deleted member]

I think Pikachu's Dair should be changed into a meteor smash/spike.

 

[Marthmario]

I think Pikachu's Dair should be changed into a meteor smash/spike.

That would honestly make everything about him soooo much better.

 

[Y-L]

Pika just has a lot of untapped potential. Watch this of a friend of mine playing against m2k. m2k wins but this showcases some of the amazing stuff Pika has.

 

[Choice Scarf]

It would be even cooler if Pika had a meteor sweetspot. The current hitboxes are good because the opponent usually doesn't expect to be sent sideways with a move like Dair, but having both for DI mixups would be interesting, especially since the need for proper positioning is in the same vein as uair, so it fits Pika to a T.

 

[Paradoxium]

No meteor dairs please, pikachu can go soooo deep for kills, I think that would make dair broken in a braindead type way

 

[Deleted member]

No meteor dairs please, pikachu can go soooo deep for kills, I think that would make dair broken in a braindead type way

So you saying it would broken because he can go deep for kills? Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Mewtwo, Lucas, Charizard, and Meta Knight, all say hello!

 

[Phan7om]

@OP But yeah, if they did make it a meteor I think it would be best to only have the meteor as a sweetspot. The horizontal angle is pretty good if you know how to use it. Pikachu is underrated in general in PM. AZ PM barely gets streamed, and when it does its not as popular as the NJ/NY streams. If Axe was streamed on VGBC or w/e on a constant basis, a lot of peoples views of Pikachu would change.

 

[Foxy K]

I just recently became mildly interested in Pikachu, but Anther is an inspiration.

 

[Paradoxium]

So you saying it would broken because he can go deep for kills? Diddy Kong, R.O.B., Mewtwo, Lucas, Charizard, and Meta Knight, all say hello!

It would be broken in a "braindead" way. Dair would become the easiest and most affective way of edge guarding people, basically removing anything unique about his edge guards. I don't want Pikachus creative edge guard game to be replaced by the generic meteor dair. And that fact that he can go so far and so deep would make landing that dair way to easy.

 

[Jiggle4Life]

Pikachu is so flashy you just have to have spirit :D I think Pikachu is very flashy

 

[Scatz]

IMO, I feel like Pika is great the way he is now. He has enough of the flash from Melee (combos, edgeguarding) and from Brawl (UpB tricks). The only thing I can think of to give him even more flashiness without interrupting his natural gameplay is to fix the hitbox on skullbash, and make the knockback hit at a lower angle. It's, in a way, his answer to flashy kills off the sides, but the charging portion of the move I have no idea (as of yet) how to make it work without being broken.

 

[herbmaster%]

im satisfied with the Bair tweak.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

IMO, I feel like Pika is great the way he is now. He has enough of the flash from Melee (combos, edgeguarding) and from Brawl (UpB tricks). The only thing I can think of to give him even more flashiness without interrupting his natural gameplay is to fix the hitbox on skullbash, and make the knockback hit at a lower angle. It's, in a way, his answer to flashy kills off the sides, but the charging portion of the move I have no idea (as of yet) how to make it work without being broken.

I support lower knockback angles

 

[B00nes]

I feel he plays a lot like 64 Pikachu but now with a little more flair because of qac. Pikachu remains as one of the more balanced characters and he doesn't have flair because of that.

 

[deadPhoenix]

Pika just has a lot of untapped potential. Watch this of a friend of mine playing against m2k. m2k wins but this showcases some of the amazing stuff Pika has.

Video is set to private

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

Video is set to private

vgbootcamp removed all the pm vids off of their channel, and we have no idea when and where they will be uploaded.

 

[misterplatt]

Pikachu having a meteor on his Dair would be terrifying, a lot like 64 Kirby's. I do agree that while I love and play the crap out of P:M Pikachu, he does seem to be missing that "flair".

 

[Choice Scarf]

So I remember talking about the meteor Dair way before, but after learning how to properly use Uair tailspikes I'd much rather have that, especially since you can't meteor cancel a tailspike. It still doesn't change how Dair sending the opponent sideways just looks wonky but you can say that about a lot of moves in the game.

As for flair, might as well see what changes in 3.6 at this point.

 

[Yambotico]

Speaking of dair, how should it be used? It has a little bit more knockback than nair, but it's so much slower.

 

[B00nes]

Speaking of dair, how should it be used? It has a little bit more knockback than nair, but it's so much slower.

It has better area coverage if your opponent is recovering low. It also (if I'm not mistaken) has a landing hit box, so it's good for covering the ground

 

[Psyant]

Speaking of dair, how should it be used? It has a little bit more knockback than nair, but it's so much slower.

Dair is a really, really good move in PM with the reduced landing lag buff and stronger landing hitbox compared to it's Melee incarnation. It's traditional uses are for edgeguarding and also covering your landings/escaping juggles occasionally. It's unbelievable how many people forget your fastfall Dair exists when you're directly above them. Don't use it all the time as it will get predictable, but against people who have little to no MU experience against Pikachu, fastfall Dair is a very good "get out of jail free" card for escaping landing punishes or juggles the first few times you use it.

For edgeguarding, the point of Dair is that it hits a bit harder than Nair, doesn't get weaker as it stays out, and sends at a trajectory that makes kills off the side very easy when used offstage. You want to start it so the hitbox comes out just as you reach the opponent, so the extra startup time is pretty irrelevant. If your opponent is getting fairly high in % and a back throw sends them way off, you could for example running jump off stage, start Dair and it has a good chance to catch them if they double jump early. Axe does that a lot. Another common use of Dair is just running off stage and dropping straight down with it when people recover low. This is usually disruptive enough that they'll die even at low %s, especially fastfallers. You mostly see that used against Fox's recovery, after you set it up by forward tilt edgeguarding his Up B so he drops directly below the ledge.

That said there are a lot of times Pikachu's new PM Bair is a better option then Dair as it hits harder and has more range, but Dair definitely still has it's niche for edgeguards, and it's an important one.

As an aside, due to Dair's reduced landing lag in PM, I actually SHFFL it sometimes. For example, on fastfallers at low %, SHFFL Dair hits harder than Nair (you will get both the normal hitbox and the landing hitbox for extra damage and hitstun) and it gives you a larger window to combo into something than Nair would, as the landing hitbox of Dair has high base knockback that sets up combos very well at low %s. SHFFL Dair > Usmash on fastfallers for example is really good and easy to hit. It doesn't crossup as well as Nair and thus is inherently less safe, but if you're pretty sure you'll hit then it's superior to Nair for setting up low % combos on some characters. It's something I'd like to see explored a bit more.

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

Speaking of dair, how should it be used? It has a little bit more knockback than nair, but it's so much slower.

Dair is good for getting deep edge guards, with his other attacks you wont be able to make it back.

Also it is Pikachu's best attack for escaping juggles.