Does Wifi decrease your skill?

[gunterrsmash01]

No, i'm not talking about if it freezes your game. i'm talking about does it mess up your timing? Combos? Wifi does have its ups and downs, and i hear many different opinions, now i would like to hear the community's.

** This thread was originally a Wifi vs. CPUs debating which was better practice **

 

[Kasai]

Practicing against CPUs is a really bad idea because you get into very bad habits that will hurt you in later play. Honestly, if you don't have any other humans around to play with, I would suggest online because then at least you get a taste of various styles of play and experience against actual players who can punish you as well as change their play style (which keeps you from forming habits).

 

[Blackbelt]

You need to play humans, because humans are able to adapt, and come up with some crazy **** that'll prepare you for the other crazy **** you'll run into later.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

But wifi just ruins your game.....

 

[WastingPenguins]

Wifi does not ruin your game in the slightest. Honestly though (and trust me on this one), if the only practice you're getting is with CPUs, you won't ever have any "game" to ruin.

 

[MarKO X]

You have to balance it out. If you can't practice with actual people, balance out your home game with wifi, CPU fights, and solo training mode sessions to smooth out the rough edges on your tech. If you're not doing tournaments all over, you have to balance it out, because neither method is perfect.

 

[matricide]

one player modes aren't exactly useful in self training. ive been going on sbr for a week now and have improved my game by factorials. i was able to beat the guy that took first in our local tourney simply by emulating the style on wifi. wifi will make you feel like you suck alot if you have lag but will get you more focused on being certain of what moves to do and will form good spamming habits.(and some gay ones)

but for those at home with no wifi, i recently started a new training method which is simply fighting level 9 on nuetral stages with 50 or higher handicap on self. this forces you to work on your poking game more and fosters better di when you have to di every hit in order to last more than a minute. this helped me to become more defensive which is what brawl favors and helped me di all those randoom sweetspot movees.

this is what works for me maybe not you

online is also a great place to test mindgames and gimping recoverys

 

[matthewdw94*]

ive been using smash brawl rankings and finding some lagless matches, ive improved with diddy alot because of this, and if you search for prople in your area, there most likely will be no lag, hell i played on norfair with a guy from michigan without lag, and im from cali, just gotta find the right connectio.

 

[PhaZeR]

Wifi doesn't ruin your game at all. Infact, i find myself playing even better offline after playing against people online.

 

[infomon]

I've been finding the transition to Brawl form Melee difficult; little things, like getting used to the physics and timing and spacing. I main ICs so there are a lot of particular technique issues that have changed.

So lately I've been practicing like this: Special Brawl: Slow-Mo, one level 9 cpu randomly chosen, 1-stock, random level. Then play the game of trying _never_ to take damage. None. Don't get hit, and KO the cpu.

It sounds really bad (slow-mo and cpu = much different than a real match) but it's good for my purpose: it's helped me learn what attacks I can safely use from what distance, when to time sidesteps and dodges etc. I'm breaking habits because I have a lot of time to let it sink in when I get punished. I can see all the nuances to how Nana reacts to slight tilts of the control stick, etc.

Now I'm playing a lot smarter in real matches. A lot of humans are dumb and will walk into smashes they should punish instead; but CPUs tend to avoid them because they know you're going to smash on the very frame you start charging it. So I have to avoid those moves that are punishable, unless I know they're safe, and I instead rely on longer-ranging tilts that have less lag. And spacing spacing spacing to avoid ever getting hit.

This should never be one's only style of play of course. The best way to learn is to play against a diverse set of really talented players in realistic matches; but this is rarely an option for me. Wifi is not a great option for delicate IC timing like chaingrabs etc., but is good to get you used to different players' styles. Playing against a single person repeatedly will reinforce some bad habits because you'll memorize their play-style, and same with CPUs. So we must be careful with everything.

*shrug*

 

[storm92]

I've been finding the transition to Brawl form Melee difficult; little things, like getting used to the physics and timing and spacing. I main ICs so there are a lot of particular technique issues that have changed.

So lately I've been practicing like this: Special Brawl: Slow-Mo, one level 9 cpu randomly chosen, 1-stock, random level. Then play the game of trying _never_ to take damage. None. Don't get hit, and KO the cpu.

It sounds really bad (slow-mo and cpu = much different than a real match) but it's good for my purpose: it's helped me learn what attacks I can safely use from what distance, when to time sidesteps and dodges etc. I'm breaking habits because I have a lot of time to let it sink in when I get punished. I can see all the nuances to how Nana reacts to slight tilts of the control stick, etc.

Now I'm playing a lot smarter in real matches. A lot of humans are dumb and will walk into smashes they should punish instead; but CPUs tend to avoid them because they know you're going to smash on the very frame you start charging it. So I have to avoid those moves that are punishable, unless I know they're safe, and I instead rely on longer-ranging tilts that have less lag. And spacing spacing spacing to avoid ever getting hit.

This should never be one's only style of play of course. The best way to learn is to play against a diverse set of really talented players in realistic matches; but this is rarely an option for me. Wifi is not a great option for delicate IC timing like chaingrabs etc., but is good to get you used to different players' styles. Playing against a single person repeatedly will reinforce some bad habits because you'll memorize their play-style, and same with CPUs. So we must be careful with everything.

*shrug*

That actually sounds like a really good idea for practicing dodging, shielding, etc.
I find it hard to do in the hectic atmosphere of normal combat, and whenever I brawl to "practice" with some players on Wi-Fi, I seem to resort back to my normal playstyle instead of taking chances and actually working on things.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I've been finding the transition to Brawl form Melee difficult; little things, like getting used to the physics and timing and spacing. I main ICs so there are a lot of particular technique issues that have changed.

So lately I've been practicing like this: Special Brawl: Slow-Mo, one level 9 cpu randomly chosen, 1-stock, random level. Then play the game of trying _never_ to take damage. None. Don't get hit, and KO the cpu.

It sounds really bad (slow-mo and cpu = much different than a real match) but it's good for my purpose: it's helped me learn what attacks I can safely use from what distance, when to time sidesteps and dodges etc. I'm breaking habits because I have a lot of time to let it sink in when I get punished. I can see all the nuances to how Nana reacts to slight tilts of the control stick, etc.

Now I'm playing a lot smarter in real matches. A lot of humans are dumb and will walk into smashes they should punish instead; but CPUs tend to avoid them because they know you're going to smash on the very frame you start charging it. So I have to avoid those moves that are punishable, unless I know they're safe, and I instead rely on longer-ranging tilts that have less lag. And spacing spacing spacing to avoid ever getting hit.

This should never be one's only style of play of course. The best way to learn is to play against a diverse set of really talented players in realistic matches; but this is rarely an option for me. Wifi is not a great option for delicate IC timing like chaingrabs etc., but is good to get you used to different players' styles. Playing against a single person repeatedly will reinforce some bad habits because you'll memorize their play-style, and same with CPUs. So we must be careful with everything.

*shrug*

Yeah, the whole slo mo idea could help improve.

As for the thread, since Wifi wins the threads question, i'm changing the topic to "does wifi screw up your game?" cause i also hear different opinons on this.

 

[plasmid]

The main reason I stay away from wifi is that it's so slow and disorienting, it's just not fun or competitive. Maybe it's just cuz i'm in hawaii i dunno. Still it's better than CPUs tho. Trust me I used to play CPUs and then when I started playing vs my friend he destroyed me with simple juggling.

 

[oze6000]

Oh my goodness i looked at this thread, saw the name, and thought i made it (oze stands for ozzie by the way. =P)

Sorry. just felt like i needed to point this out. Enjoy your conversation everyone.


I'll contribute something worth reading at least.
I think the drawbacks of having to recalibrate your timing is worth being able to play human players. Timing is something that you can adjust and readjust, it just takes a game or two. But that styles you learn and techniques you see from playing human players is something harder to find and more important.

 

[Affinity]

WiFi screws me over hardcore.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177118

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Yeah that thread is all anti wifi. However the people here are saying Wifi is good practice :O

 

[Nona]

Wi-Fi is alright is most cases, I have good connection with little to no lag 80% of the time.

However, even a small amount of lag screws up my timing when it comes to spikes. Doesn't bother me all that much unless I'm using T.Link or any other characters whose spikes send them straight down.

Larger amounts of lag render an offscreen Ness useless.
While Lucas still has the optional Rope Snake recovery, lag can mess you up when you try to use PKT with Ness, [his only recovery since airdodge recovery is no longer here]
Lag on wifi makes it hard to predict attacks so I can't use Double Team as Lucario.

Short Version: Lag only bothers me when I try to spike, recover, or counter.

EDIT: changed "connecting" to "connection". Fixed any weird typos I made.

 

[smaci92]

Yes, ZSS is so fast, and the lag of wifi really messes me up

 

[Ban3]

same with sheik

 

[Noodlehead]

i think it helped me get a lot better

 

[Duker]

I adapt after a game or two, so I'm not bothered at all.


Unless it's 'versus anyone', four players and items and one is a Lucas/Ness that retardely spams PK Thunder and whatever and therefore pisses me off.

 

[Crystanium]

Wi-Fi has its benefits. Like many have stated, it is better than fighting a CPU, and you learn new techniques performed by other people. You get familiar with how others play. However, I don't find Wi-Fi all that satisfying, since there is lag. I do agree that lag does hinder my performance while online.

I play better offline than I do online, because the button input actually works better than online. For example, I was on Wi-Fi, and I checked my shielding while my opponent was in the air, because I was wondering, "Why do I keep on getting hit? I shield at the right time!" It turned out that the button input was slow on Wi-Fi versus offline.

So, Wi-Fi is useful because you gain experience this way. It's not useful, because sometimes your button input isn't read properly. I know this also from experience, as does my brother.

 

[Umpadumpalump]

My skills boosted dramatically when playing wifi. However, unless I'm in a blue connection match, it'll screw up my attacks occasionally. Sometimes that leads to frustration, and gets me punished.

 

[Thand]

I like WiFi, but I have to play Lucas completely differently. PKT2 is a PAIN to aim precisely. I play every now and then, primarily when I'm bored... but try not to get too used to it, because like I said, it alters my game.

 

[SummerObsession]

Wi-Fi sucks. When I try to enter a command in a Wi-fi Match it takes half a second for the command to register and perform. This delay sucks for my main Marth as his attacks need to be timed and space well and you CAN't counter as it always comes late. You can't respond to your enemys move on Wi-fi. The only thing you can do is input your own command half a second early and hope that attack beats his. If you play like you would with a real person you'll get beat because your input wont register until half a second later. It may just be my connection but I have 3Mbps which is the highest DSL I can get in my area. After playing wi-fi for a while and switching to playing off wi-fi your game will be off cuz you have to adjust for the no-delay. Wi-fi is awful and is frustrating to no end. I can see it being viable if you have no lag or just suck and mash buttons.

 

[Tenki]

Online and offline play are different, so l2p.

^l2p lol

I've practiced almost solely off of Wifi and training mode. I'm currently trying to get matchup experience from wifi play. But, if you do so, keep in mind that online and offline play are different. Different mindset, and at times, different playstyles and techniques.

For example, I play Sonic. Online. His offline game is heavy on attack-lag punishment via shieldgrabs and spindash combos. Since, through input lag, all my moves come out later, if I try to punish that missed tilt, I'm going to be running into a smash or a spotdodge-smash instead of getting a shieldgrab. I lose a staple part of my game. So I keep that in mind and use it much less, unless I can predict my opponent doing a counter attack and just do a run>shield (Marths tend to use their fsmash, so I can space the shield for that case).
At the same time, I have to buffer my spindash combos ahead of time and hope that I lead the jump to aerial correctly. And you know what, I've done it, and it's possible. If I'm playing online against someone who's trying to get matchup experience, I point out to them anything that wouldn't have worked offline, and their vulnerabilities.

While offline play is very reflex-based, online play is more prediction-based. Predict your enemy's moves and buffer in a counter moveset ahead of time. "Predict" your timing and do your move inputs ahead of time, without having to watch your character (especially for things like getting FH-FF or SH-FF aerials to hit near ground level).

Also, read this, it might help @_@
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4758359#post4758359

Offline, practice your timing for shields and any 'reflexive' moves, like punishing smashes or timing-tight moves like chaingrabs and spindash combos (all of which I've seen done flawlessly and multiple times THROUGH LAG online). Online, practice predicting your opponent's moves and finding counter moves to them, while keeping yourself unpredictable. Mindgames and all. Their "reflexive" moves and counters are done ahead of time, and that should say something about YOUR predictability. Just keep in mind the differences, especially if you're up against someone with alot of experience online.

[edit]
On a random note about predictability and people doing moves as if they were reflexively done offline:

one guy I played on aib, samboner, kept grabbing me out of a half charged spindash online.

...through .4-.5 second lag.

wtf.

 

[ForteEscape]

Even if I have perfect blue connection with my friend, I still feel the lag. Wifi does seem to be a bit off in timing, but it's a lot better than playing against CPUs. My reactions and combos are sometimes interrupted by even the slightest lag.

But alas, no one in my town plays competitive smash, so wifi is the way to go for me. It still good to help sharpen your skills, but just make sure you have a pretty good connection with your friend. lulz.

 

[DiasFlac]

When their input lag it can mess up my game. I'll sometime try to do two jumps to a bair and end up doing one and getting punished for it.

Which is why I only brawl players I have little to no lag games with.

 

[Olimarman]

CPUs are good for one thing: 3 stocking. Wifi is great training since you can fight more people on wifi then you ever could in real life. Its great practice when your by yourself.

 

[KoopaKoopaParatroopa]

in a friend to friend match, it helps because you're playing against a person, so it's improving your game one way, but the timing on specific things gets messed up...

like when you're trying to powershield a spamming wolf's blasters. I can barely get it on wifi, but I can do about 75% offline.

 

[Pabs]

Wifi blows, the input lag makes it nearly unplayable. I can't count how many times I ended up short with horizontal recoveries because it initiates a second after I press a button. Sure it might be better than fighting lvl 9s, but that's not saying much at all.

 

[Epic Kovumon]

IRL, I'm a beast with Donkey Kong, but when I play online, I do terrible.

It's almost sad that a half a second input lags can screw even somewhat fast chars (DK, sort of) so badly.

And when I'm Snake, I always screw up the C4 recovery on Wi-Fi.

I took a break from wi-fi for a while, I got good offline. But then I get back online, and I was all WTFness.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Oh dear god yes it does.

I've nearly lost so many matches because That Half second to a second of input lag can really screw me over. I'm so much better in real life than I am on WiFi. Due to that lag, I can't play to my normal strengths, and sometimes it ends up with me spamming wildly because of it. The few times I lose on WiFi, I always have that feeling that if this were an offline match, the outcome would have been different.

 

[_Phloat_]

It helps to learn playstyles, and not get stuck in a rut playing CPUs and only a few friends...



Just make sure to "warm up" before an offline game, if you have been playing a lot online. I find that the timing comes back, because everything is faster by about the same increment. Its like becoming faster, not like learning new timings...

Use wifi, but understand that it would be different offline.

Also, never, ever, ever, ever, do with anyone.

 

[Duker]

I'm amazed by how many people are unable to adapt.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I'm amazed by how many people are unable to adapt.

Those who can adapt probably had weak offline skills in the first place. Wifi is an entirely different game in my eyes.

 

[Crizthakidd]

it screws me up offline. then i play online and i have to swtich my style and way of thinking once again. its like playing 2 different games. ggs suckskurai

 

[MarKO X]

Wifi with friends isn't sooooo bad, especially if you play on a stage that doesn't do much like Smashville and Battlefield. (the more action the stage does, the greater the lag... i think)

At the same time, you have to remember, if you're experiencing lag, so is your opponent. So by all means, you should get into a cocky attitude if you lose on Wifi because of lag, because your opponent had to deal with the same thing, and is probably very capable of winning offline as well.

Wifi with anyone though? 4get about it...

 

[mastermycojeb]

online is a joke

 

[DMG]

I play as Wario... nuff said.

Lag screws me over HARDCORE ... Tenki was right though, Offline is more centered on predicting ahead of time instead of relying on lightning quick reflexes.