Social Dr. Mario Social Thread - Witches? Dragons?...I've seen worse walk into my office.

[tibs7]

nintendo direct tomorrow!! :D

buff doc hype, lets gooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Cloud though... I did not expect that.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

Cloud though... I did not expect that.

Same. Tbh I was hoping for Icees or like the actual ballot characters or something but I suppose Cloud's cool. I know little to nothing about Final Fantasy which is why it's a bit less hype to me, but new characters in general are hype

 

[MistressRemilia]

He seems like Ike.
Another bad matchup spotted n_n

 

[MonkeyArms]

He seems like Ike.
Another bad matchup spotted n_n

I down tilted Ike at like 117 from the left ledge when he countered at like 85.
I died off the right blastzone.
What.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

He seems like Ike.
Another bad matchup spotted n_n

Correction: Another reason to use my secondaries

 

[Doctor_Link]

What I don't get is why shulk's vision is a command grab. I keep dying at like 80 from a countered soft hit nair, on both doc and dedede, and I can visibly see my shield up before I get hit.

 

[meleebrawler]

What I don't get is why shulk's vision is a command grab. I keep dying at like 80 from a countered soft hit nair, on both doc and dedede, and I can visibly see my shield up before I get hit.

It's not a grab, just unblockable. Like some customs and a fully charged Focus Attack from Ryu.

 

[Doctor_Link]

A command grab doesn't have to be a grab. And I believe Focus attack is a command grab, with the special animation for it.

I'm pretty sure a command grab is just something that can hit you through your shield without a shield poke.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

A command grab doesn't have to be a grab.

??

https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/658000790133444609


Yes it does. A command grab is a grab that:
a. Is exclusive to certain characters (e.g. grapplers in various fighting games such as Zangief, King in Tekken, etc.)
b. Requires a different input than the standard grab to execute.

Sm4sh Ryu's Focus Attack is NOT a command grab. It's an unblockable move when fully charged. These exist in various fighting games (e.g. ALL fully charged FAs in Street Fighter 4, Firebrand's fully charged attack in UMVC3, the useless but powerful unblockable attacks in Soul Calibur and Tekken, etc.)

Examples of command grabs in Sm4sh include: Flame Choke (Ganondorf), Confusion (Mewtwo), Flying Slam (Bowser), Chomp (Wario), Nosferatu (Robin), and the like.

 

[Doctor_Link]

A command grab doesn't have to be a grab.

??

https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/658000790133444609


Yes it does. A command grab is a grab that:
a. Is exclusive to certain characters (e.g. grapplers in various fighting games such as Zangief, King in Tekken, etc.)
b. Requires a different input than the standard grab to execute.

Sm4sh Ryu's Focus Attack is NOT a command grab. It's an unblockable move when fully charged. These exist in various fighting games (e.g. ALL fully charged FAs in Street Fighter 4, Firebrand's fully charged attack in UMVC3, the useless but powerful unblockable attacks in Soul Calibur and Tekken, etc.)

Examples of command grabs in Sm4sh include: Flame Choke (Ganondorf), Confusion (Mewtwo), Flying Slam (Bowser), Chomp (Wario), Nosferatu (Robin), and the like.

Derp.

 

[TTTTTsd]

He seems like Ike.
Another bad matchup spotted n_n

yeah uh, I think based on analysis of his tools he'll be problematic. DSmash looks like a Doc slayer (mostly a Mac slayer just for how it works, regardless of KO power) and he possess two VERY FRIGGIN FAST meteors among other things.

WE DON'T KNOW YET but given that I'm gonna lab him out and try him, we'll find out, but I don't feel optimistic about the Cloud MU heh.

 

[tibs7]

will be at umebara this weekend!

ill post a twitch link in here if there is a stream, wish me luck

 

[MonkeyArms]

"Good Luck"

 

[Underhill]

Is there a Dr Mario discord group? If so, then I like to join there and like a invite.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Who would agree with me that the Sheik matchup is 45-55 or 40-60? Doc seems to do better than Mario would.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm not sure he does better than Mario but I don't think Sheik wins any more than 60:40 against Doc (I'd say it's 6:4). Honestly if you ask me a lot of his top tier MUs are probably manageable and mostly competitive. The ones that really just aren't are basically ZSS, Sonic, and Rosa I think. ZSS is probably the least bad of these because of how Doc kills off a grab.

Sonic gets a lot more annoying when he stops committing. Little guy just squirms around.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Doc has a pretty easy time edge guarding those characters (Though Rosalina is still broken as heck)
ZSS and Sonic aren't really too bad. Pretty much everything Doc has bodies Sonic's approach options. Lets not forget Doc can reliably combo break ZSS with up b, which might even kill if she gets to greedy.
I have a hard time dealing with her nuetral, though.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc has a pretty easy time edge guarding those characters (Though Rosalina is still broken as heck)
ZSS and Sonic aren't really too bad. Pretty much everything Doc has bodies Sonic's approach options. Lets not forget Doc can reliably combo break ZSS with up b, which might even kill if she gets to greedy.
I have a hard time dealing with her nuetral, though.

Sonic's mostly an issue of when he stops committing though.

Fighting an aggro Sonic is way easier than fighting one that is content to tack % on you and then run away, he has the ability to do that very well and it's irritating.

ZSS is easier than both Sonic and Rosa cause she dies off of grab conversions at relatively low %s for kills in this game, Rosa is annoying because she's a wall and we don't have a lot to pass through it (Nado is good but it's our one thing in this MU that's worth a damn outside hard reads) and it's hard to penetrate that sort of defense.

ZSS is easily the easiest of these and fairly winnable but the other two I'd advise a switch on, personally.

 

[Underhill]

Who would agree with me that the Sheik matchup is 45-55 or 40-60? Doc seems to do better than Mario would.

I hate to break it to you, but I'll have to disagree. Doc may have more kill power, combos against her since she's a fast-faller, up-b and n-air certain combos, and maybe gimp alittle better than Mario, but..... can he move like her? My record says no. If he had mobility like Mario, then he might stand a better chance.
Off-stage, oh god you do not want to be off stage for her to exploit and gimp you with her crazy tools. Needles, stupid. F-airs. dumb. I rather face Rosalina or even Sonic as Doc than Sheik if I faced a good Sheik player who drags and rips me to pieces. At least they're easier to fight than that dumb ninja or whatever.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I hate to break it to you, but I'll have to disagree. Doc may have more kill power, combos against her since she's a fast-faller, up-b and n-air certain combos, and maybe gimp alittle better than Mario, but..... can he move like her? My record says no. If he had mobility like Mario, then he might stand a better chance.
Off-stage, oh god you do not want to be off stage for her to exploit and gimp you with her crazy tools. Needles, stupid. F-airs. dumb. I rather face Rosalina or even Sonic as Doc than Sheik if I faced a good Sheik player who drags and rips me to pieces. At least they're easier to fight than that dumb ninja or whatever.

I'd rather not fight Rosa or Sonic over Sheik. At the very least you can kill Sheik off of a grab and you have ridiculous shield options to counteract some of her tricks. Rosa is just painful and Sonic is Sonic. It's not a favorable MU for Doc but I think it is very doable.

That being said neither Doc nor Mario have a great MU against Sheik but I think it's doable for both if you play conservative. Doc USmash is an amazing anti-air in this matchup.

I understand the frustration with the Sheik matchup but play diligently and you'll manage to do stuff. If you're careful about your recovery you can avoid the gimping problems, Doc's recovery is a very big barrier sometimes, especially if you're just starting with him or learning new matchups. My advice is abuse the hell out of airdodge and try to burn your double jump only when you absolutely have to. It is your LIFE.

 

[Underhill]

I'd rather not fight Rosa or Sonic over Sheik. At the very least you can kill Sheik off of a grab and you have ridiculous shield options to counteract some of her tricks. Rosa is just painful and Sonic is Sonic. It's not a favorable MU for Doc but I think it is very doable.

That being said neither Doc nor Mario have a great MU against Sheik but I think it's doable for both if you play conservative. Doc USmash is an amazing anti-air in this matchup.

I understand the frustration with the Sheik matchup but play diligently and you'll manage to do stuff. If you're careful about your recovery you can avoid the gimping problems, Doc's recovery is a very big barrier sometimes, especially if you're just starting with him or learning new matchups. My advice is abuse the hell out of airdodge and try to burn your double jump only when you absolutely have to. It is your LIFE.

I don't have any problems against Rosalina as Doc. I mean, I can do well against her and ZSS as Doc without needing to change to Mario, Luigi, or Pikachu so as long as you be patient, get rid of Luma without getting punished and stay close to Rosalina and avoid her range and edgeguards, then you'll do fine. Sonic can be a problem for Doc, well speed is there, but his approaches can be manageable with the right cards in my hand.
Mario does better against Sheik than Doc since he's fast and can get in better than Doc, but still a slighty disadvantage against her though while Dr Mario has a big disadvantage like 40-60. I still dislike the mu against Sheik as Doc even though I know how to deal with her as Doc. Just not a fun mu.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't have any problems against Rosalina as Doc. I mean, I can do well against her and ZSS as Doc without needing to change to Mario, Luigi, or Pikachu so as long as you be patient, get rid of Luma without getting punished and stay close to Rosalina and avoid her range and edgeguards, then you'll do fine. Sonic can be a problem for Doc, well speed is there, but his approaches can be manageable with the right cards in my hand.
Mario does better against Sheik than Doc since he's fast and can get in better than Doc, but still a slighty disadvantage against her though while Dr Mario has a big disadvantage like 40-60. I still dislike the mu against Sheik as Doc even though I know how to deal with her as Doc. Just not a fun mu.

I don't think 6:4 is that large of an advantage. I find ZSS to be around 65:35 or 7:3 (yeah it sucks) and Rosa to be around there. Sonic I'd say is the worst personally, I can only go based on my experience (albeit limited) and the sayings of @2ManyCooks who is our best recorded Doc outside of Nairo if I recall.

Sheik is fairly managable and she can't really play dumb around your shield, especially when she's at high %. Never fear the idea of mashing Up+B OoS.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I hate to break it to you, but I'll have to disagree. Doc may have more kill power, combos against her since she's a fast-faller, up-b and n-air certain combos, and maybe gimp alittle better than Mario, but..... can he move like her? My record says no. If he had mobility like Mario, then he might stand a better chance.
Off-stage, oh god you do not want to be off stage for her to exploit and gimp you with her crazy tools. Needles, stupid. F-airs. dumb. I rather face Rosalina or even Sonic as Doc than Sheik if I faced a good Sheik player who drags and rips me to pieces. At least they're easier to fight than that dumb ninja or whatever.

Movement doesn't really make a difference, its not like you're ACTUALLY going to punish sheik from far away. He can land a lot better than Mario, and has a much easier time punishing her oos. He has a more reliable combo breaker and can actually edge guard sheik. Mario simply does not have the tools that Doc has to deal with sheik, only combos.
Trades, combos, and kills also benefit Doc a lot more than Mario. Movement doesn't mean anything without a good use of it. You can reflect needles WHILE approaching with a short hop, and you should be countering sheik if she tries to edge guard with fairs. (up air, up b.)

I'm telling you, sheik's tools are massively overrated. Only thing even worth a real nerf is needles.

 

[Underhill]

I don't think 6:4 is that large of an advantage. I find ZSS to be around 65:35 or 7:3 (yeah it sucks) and Rosa to be around there. Sonic I'd say is the worst personally, I can only go based on my experience (albeit limited) and the sayings of @2ManyCooks who is our best recorded Doc outside of Nairo if I recall.

Sheik is fairly managable and she can't really play dumb around your shield, especially when she's at high %. Never fear the idea of mashing Up+B OoS.

I haven't faced a good ZSS player in a while as Doc and even though I need to play more ZSS players, I'm ok with it as well against Rosalina as Doc since I main her and know how to fare well in the mu. Yeah, Sonic can be a drag if you found a good one to give you h***.

Movement doesn't really make a difference, its not like you're ACTUALLY going to punish sheik from far away. He can land a lot better than Mario, and has a much easier time punishing her oos. He has a more reliable combo breaker and can actually edge guard sheik. Mario simply does not have the tools that Doc has to deal with sheik, only combos.
Trades, combos, and kills also benefit Doc a lot more than Mario. Movement doesn't mean anything without a good use of it. You can reflect needles WHILE approaching with a short hop, and you should be countering sheik if she tries to edge guard with fairs. (up air, up b.)

I'm telling you, sheik's tools are massively overrated. Only thing even worth a real nerf is needles.

I'm sorry dude, but I still think Mario does better against Sheik than Doc. I don't think the mu is bad myself as well, but he doesn't do it better than Mario due to slow mobility.
He would land a lot better than Mario if he had more air speed, otherwise he has n-air, tornado, and d-air to avoid getting juggled by up-airs and her mix ups if used correctly and don't get baited out when you overused them or get read on. Plus, Sheiks if good ones won't be dumb to challenge the up-b off-stage unless their greed blinds them. Also, she can still give him trouble off-stage if you don't mix up and let her guess easily.
Mario can kill better, also land pressure on Sheik, b-airs and d-air(maybe) to challenge f-airs(same with Doc), recover better, and can get in better than Doc. Movement does matter in that mu because if she mix up her approaches, SH aerials, or etc, she won't let you get in for free while dealing combos and pressuring you. This is not to discourage.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I haven't faced a good ZSS player in a while as Doc and even though I need to play more ZSS players, I'm ok with it as well against Rosalina as Doc since I main her and know how to fare well in the mu. Yeah, Sonic can be a drag if you found a good one to give you h***.

The thing about ZSS isn't even her general kit for the most part really. It's Flip Jump. We can't chase it down reliably at all, we have to make a really good guess to punish it and she has to Flip Jump in. Our advantage state is really weak vs. ZSS outside of killing off of grab at the higher %s, meanwhile her advantage state is consistently good. Even if you SDI the Boost Kick proper, she'll tack on damage really fast off of grabs. It used to be what I considered Doc's worst until Sonic happened, and Rosa's probably 2nd worst, considering that she's even hard for Mario and in this case our only advantage is Down-B, it's rough to say the least IMO. Sonic is just a jerk because we can't really catch him, we have to commit way more than he does for marginal damage and it's annoying, mostly a bad MU by design, just character archetypes.

These 3 MUs are probably the only 3 I wouldn't play, although I might condense it down to 2 (Sonic and Rosa), dunno about not playing ZSS anymore but I imagine it's not ideal anyways.

 

[MonkeyArms]

I'm sorry dude, but I still think Mario does better against Sheik than Doc. I don't think the mu is bad myself as well, but he doesn't do it better than Mario due to slow mobility.
He would land a lot better than Mario if he had more air speed, otherwise he has n-air, tornado, and d-air to avoid getting juggled by up-airs and her mix ups if used correctly and don't get baited out when you overused them or get read on. Plus, Sheiks if good ones won't be dumb to challenge the up-b off-stage unless their greed blinds them. Also, she can still give him trouble off-stage if you don't mix up and let her guess easily.
Mario can kill better, also land pressure on Sheik, b-airs and d-air(maybe) to challenge f-airs(same with Doc), recover better, and can get in better than Doc. Movement does matter in that mu because if she mix up her approaches, SH aerials, or etc, she won't let you get in for free while dealing combos and pressuring you. This is not to discourage.

Lol as if sheik actually was good at juggling.
Lol as if B-reversing didn't exist.
Lol AS IF Mario killed better.
Lol as if Doc didn't get more reward from landing bairs.

Mario's recovery is actually trash compared to how much Doc can mix his up.
Mario only gets in better when Sheik does something stupid, otherwise, there is really no was he should be getting in better aside from fireballs.
Movement doesn't matter because sheik is not a good juggler and has nearly no lag on 90 percent of her moves. This is were better OOS options and better reward off hits come into play. Mario has to rely on up airs or grabs to get good damage, Doc just needs bair.

 

[Underhill]

The thing about ZSS isn't even her general kit for the most part really. It's Flip Jump. We can't chase it down reliably at all, we have to make a really good guess to punish it and she has to Flip Jump in. Our advantage state is really weak vs. ZSS outside of killing off of grab at the higher %s, meanwhile her advantage state is consistently good. Even if you SDI the Boost Kick proper, she'll tack on damage really fast off of grabs. It used to be what I considered Doc's worst until Sonic happened, and Rosa's probably 2nd worst, considering that she's even hard for Mario and in this case our only advantage is Down-B, it's rough to say the least IMO. Sonic is just a jerk because we can't really catch him, we have to commit way more than he does for marginal damage and it's annoying, mostly a bad MU by design, just character archetypes.

These 3 MUs are probably the only 3 I wouldn't play, although I might condense it down to 2 (Sonic and Rosa), dunno about not playing ZSS anymore but I imagine it's not ideal anyways.

Yeah its tough for Doc against Sonic, ZSS, and Rosalina, but Rosalina, I don't mind the mu against her as Doc. However, it gets stormy, then I'll switch to Mario or Pikachu. ZSS alittle, but I'll have to play the mu again and find good ZSS players to fight. What do you think about Marth, the stupid swordmen?

Lol as if sheik actually was good at juggling.
Lol as if B-reversing didn't exist.
Lol AS IF Mario killed better.
Lol as if Doc didn't get more reward from landing bairs.
Mario's recovery is actually trash compared to how much Doc can mix his up.
Mario only gets in better when Sheik does something stupid, otherwise, there is really no was he should be getting in better aside from fireballs.
Movement doesn't matter because sheik is not a good juggler and has nearly no lag on 90 percent of her moves. This is were better OOS options and better reward off hits come into play. Mario has to rely on up airs or grabs to get good damage, Doc just needs bair.

Here's the thing. Doc's recovery is more exploit than Mario because at least Mario has enough height as long as you've mix up with cape and don't burn out double jump unless you need to. Doc has to work more to recover while Sheik can also pressure him off-stage with aerials, needles, up-b, ledge trumps, and ledge punishes.
I mean, Mario kills better than Sheik, not Dr Mario XD
While Sheik struggles to kill, Mario commits less than her to get his kills, especially with rage as long as you've don't force kills and be patient. Sheik can give Doc more trouble landing than Mario because the plumber has air speed while the doctor has lower air speed outside of tornado, d-air, and n-air. She got mix ups and mindgames, not just up-airs, her speed, and needles. I agree that Doc's b-airs are useful, but not predictable at the same time.
If you're just using fireballs to get in, then that's only limiting yourself to approach as Mario so short hop and maybe air dodge(if must) while using aerials and b-air to get in or bait out approaches from her.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Here's the thing. Doc's recovery is more exploit than Mario because at least Mario has enough height as long as you've mix up with cape and don't burn out double jump unless you need to. Doc has to work more to recover while Sheik can also pressure him off-stage with aerials, needles, up-b, ledge trumps, and ledge punishes.
I mean, Mario kills better than Sheik, not Dr Mario XD
While Sheik struggles to kill, Mario commits less than her to get his kills, especially with rage as long as you've don't force kills and be patient. Sheik can give Doc more trouble landing than Mario because the plumber has air speed while the doctor has lower air speed outside of tornado, d-air, and n-air. She got mix ups and mindgames, not just up-airs, her speed, and needles. I agree that Doc's b-airs are useful, but not predictable at the same time.
If you're just using fireballs to get in, then that's only limiting yourself to approach as Mario so short hop and maybe air dodge(if must) while using aerials and b-air to get in or bait out approaches from her.

You clearly don't see the differences:
Mario's cape leaves him wide open, Doc tornado does not, and lets him recover high.
Doc has more landing options and edge guards. (WOAH! NON TOP TIERS CAN LAND?!)
While Mario will get 22 percent for getting in, Doc will get 27.
Doc commits even less for kills and has the option to commit for early kills if he wants to.
Doc can DEFEND himself when he is edge guarded.
Doc has an amzing up b punish oos, Mario can't miss.

Then, what does Mario have?
More reliable combos and approaches. Clearly Doc must win.

 

[TTTTTsd]

You clearly don't see the differences:
Mario's cape leaves him wide open, Doc tornado does not, and lets him recover high.
Doc has more landing options and edge guards. (WOAH! NON TOP TIERS CAN LAND?!)
While Mario will get 22 percent for getting in, Doc will get 27.
Doc commits even less for kills and has the option to commit for early kills if he wants to.
Doc can DEFEND himself when he is edge guarded.
Doc has an amzing up b punish oos, Mario can't miss.

Then, what does Mario have?
More reliable combos and approaches. Clearly Doc must win.

Mario has an easier time landing especially relative to Doc in this MU. Doc can Side-B needles but that's not Sheik's only trap on landing, it's a nice niche landing option to have though.

I don't think the Doc vs. Sheik MU is unwinnable or even uncompetitive, but I think Mario has a moderately easier time because of how he's tuned and how he deals with Sheik. We can edgeguard yes but Sheik's recovery is so good that it's not incredibly feasible to have it be consistent, we can kill off a grab yes, that's nice to have, but Sheik is the queen of neutral and Mario, in this matchup, has a neutral that is better than ours and he also has a disadvantage that is better than ours, leaving him a lot safer if he does lose neutral which is going to happen vs. Sheik to a somewhat consistent degree.

 

[Underhill]

You clearly don't see the differences:
Mario's cape leaves him wide open, Doc tornado does not, and lets him recover high.
Doc has more landing options and edge guards. (WOAH! NON TOP TIERS CAN LAND?!)
While Mario will get 22 percent for getting in, Doc will get 27.
Doc commits even less for kills and has the option to commit for early kills if he wants to.
Doc can DEFEND himself when he is edge guarded.
Doc has an amzing up b punish oos, Mario can't miss.

Then, what does Mario have?
More reliable combos and approaches. Clearly Doc must win.

No, I do
Yes she can be edgguarded, but not much because of her bounching fish and up-b and if you keep going for gimps, then she'll catch on and you'll leave yourself to being edgeguarded. You're forgetting end-lag on the tornado and short jump height so if he gets knocked off, then he's finished.
Power and damage don't mean much against Sheik if you're Doc. How the h*** is Doc gonna get in better if he's slow. He needs smaller stages like BF to stay on her most of the time and be patient while running and shield and counter if she attempts to zone or camp him out. Mario gets in better due to better mobility and approaching safer, not just fireballs. Damage don't mean much if he can't get in safer.
If he gets his early kills, then yes.
Landing options can be trapped or baited like TTTTTsd said.

 

[TheBlueSpirit]

I've played the matchup as both Doc and Mario and I don't really think one does better than the other in the matchup against sheik, they can both still compete in it. I'd probably prefer Mario though only because he does have more speed, but they both handle the matchup decently enough, and have similar weaknesses in it

 

[MonkeyArms]

No, I do
Yes she can be edgguarded, but not much because of her bounching fish and up-b and if you keep going for gimps, then she'll catch on and you'll leave yourself to being edgeguarded. You're forgetting end-lag on the tornado and short jump height so if he gets knocked off, then he's finished.
Power and damage don't mean much against Sheik if you're Doc. How the h*** is Doc gonna get in better if he's slow. He needs smaller stages like BF to stay on her most of the time and be patient while running and shield and counter if she attempts to zone or camp him out. Mario gets in better due to better mobility and approaching safer, not just fireballs. Damage don't mean much if he can't get in safer.
If he gets his early kills, then yes.
Landing options can be trapped or baited like TTTTTsd said.

Mario has the same approaches as Doc (except down air) but Doc has the safer shield pressure, better old options, and the better short hop for more mo ups, not to mention the cape. With Doc, you don't even have to get in anyway.
Also, there's these things called mix ups. It's like you actually think a hih level player is going tolet himself constantly do the same thing. At high level, more options is better. Simple as that. Saying more landing options is a bad thing just doesn't make logical sense, along with saying your constantly going to edge guard sheik. You have to make reads. It's the fact that he has more options is why Im making this argument.
Mario might get in better, but if he does, it's not by much

 

[Underhill]

Mario has the same approaches as Doc (except down air) but Doc has the safer shield pressure, better old options, and the better short hop for more mo ups, not to mention the cape. With Doc, you don't even have to get in anyway.
Also, there's these things called mix ups. It's like you actually think a hih level player is going tolet himself constantly do the same thing. At high level, more options is better. Simple as that. Saying more landing options is a bad thing just doesn't make logical sense, along with saying your constantly going to edge guard sheik. You have to make reads. It's the fact that he has more options is why Im making this argument.
Mario might get in better, but if he does, it's not by much

That's why I said that she can be edgeguarded. If you find a blind spot, then you clean it up with a read.
I'm aware of mix ups and players being unpredictable. I'm trying to state why I do see Mario doing better against Sheik than Doc. You may think that I'm giving Doc less credit, but you're also giving Mario less credit as well. Mario may be not ko like Doc or get more damage, OoS aren't better than Doc's and getting early kills like him, but speed, better approaches, and giving out pressure along with good frame data helps him against Sheik. Like I said, Mario can kill better than Sheik; Its not much, but because that Sheik struggles to kill more than Mario, he can land them better and maybe get early as long as you get the punishes, force errors, mix up kill options, and play mindgames. Doc same as well. Yes, the approaches are the same, but Mario has better mobility.

 

[tibs7]

Sooooo Japanese players are ok.
I lost to saya and a random horrible greninja.
Came I think 88th out of 400.

blew up a lot of people because they have no clue what doc can do ahaha.

 

[Underhill]

Sooooo Japanese players are ok.
I lost to saya and a random horrible greninja.
Came I think 88th out of 400.

blew up a lot of people because they have no clue what doc can do ahaha.

Congrats, man. 88th isn't bad so you did well.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Sooooo Japanese players are ok.
I lost to saya and a random horrible greninja.
Came I think 88th out of 400.

blew up a lot of people because they have no clue what doc can do ahaha.

No offense, but if you're losing to a "horrible" player, you should probably be practicing or learning the matchup.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Glad to see Koolaid still repping Doc. He's been one of the believers since last year.

EDIT: Since this has not been said enough, LOL at Up-Tilt.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/rushhoursmash-2015120634722858

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Hm, no patch notes for the Bros yet.

 

[tibs7]

guys has anyone tried to verse cloud as Doc?
from my experience today the MU is horrible, I know its early days but finding a way in against cloud seems to be extremely difficult. pressuring in the air gets shutdown by dair and the limit break kind of forces you to approach but when you do he SH nairs/ retreat fairs. random dash attack into the safest uair juggles I have ever seen.

Basically his speed and disjoint blow us up.
but like I said early days so I'll keep grinding