Eruption uses?

[NWRL]

Title :33333

 

[Y-L]

It can be good for edge guarding but it's very situational. In the event your opponent is recovering below you, you can spike if you hit with the tip of the sword. Its armor can also ward off certain attacks that your opponent thinks will hit you which can catch them off guard as well. I wouldn't use it in neutral though because of its high end lag.

 

[br8k]

Total theorycrafting here as I really don't have enough game experience to do much more than speculate:
- Punishing people for trying to hit you with their recovery (suuuper armor). Like Roy's up-B and its giant firey hitbox. You can probably punch through that.
- Incredibly silly/difficult off-stage spikes. I'm super curious what the actual potential is here if someone got really good with it.
- More plausible spikes while standing at edge vs certain characters trying to sweetspot the edge.
- Muscling through and punishing predicted attacks?? But if you're going to predict them you might as well just counter

I also found a weird and not necessarily useful mixup of dashing back, jumping, and b-reversing an Eruption. Dodge back and then suddenly fly at the enemy with an eruption. It actually probably gives you better momentum control, or at least different momentum options for a very specific spacing, if you're trying to land a spike on someone approaching the edge. The spiketyspikes warrant more thought and experimentation.

Also in an amateur tournament I Eruption-spiked a Dedede from the edge and fully-charged-Eruption'd an Ivysaur who tried to stall on the edge. Neither of those would work against players who actually know Ike, but there's probably something there to learn as far as Eruption spiking people stalling on the edge. Would require amazing timing to hit in the moment where they're not invincible, but it would presumably work on all characters who aren't Sheik (dumb total invincible stall). And if they jump to attack you, you'd still armor through their attack.

I think a lot and don't play enough :T

 

[Y-L]

- Incredibly silly/difficult off-stage spikes. I'm super curious what the actual potential is here if someone got really good with it.

Can you even off stage spike with Eruption? Every time I've tried it the end lag kills me.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

- Edgeguarding
- Escape juggles (time properly)
- Nothing, it's a pretty stupid neutral B, but @ AllyKnight used it on Zhime at Apex and it was damn near full charged and it was awesome, so points for that I guess.

Edit: Note that it's only really good for edgeguards when the opponent is out of options: No DJ, must recover to ledge or above, etc. So that you can use its looong charge time to wait for more than the time required for a charged FSmash and punish on reaction. In most situations though a spaced FSmash is superior.

 

[Ogopogo]

Use it for hard reads, its armor, edgeguarding, and spiking when someone recovers at a 90 degree angle upwards. EZ. If you care about doing cool stuff more than winning by a large margin, use it at some points.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

use it when you break a shield

otherwise avoid

alternatively feel free to fully charge it and hope someone is stupid enough to walk into it (this doesn't happen)

 

[br8k]

use it when you break a shield

otherwise avoid

alternatively feel free to fully charge it and hope someone is stupid enough to walk into it (this doesn't happen)

Just you wait I will totally use this move intelligently.

You will be all

"omg br8k i thot that mov waz uselss"

and I will be all

"yes well that is why i won"

just you wait.

it'll happen.

seriously though it has super armor AND a spike. I'm sure there's potential there.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

oh my god you type exactly like i do

wtf

but real talk

it might have some situation use for edgeguarding

but why not just fair or something

or dair

or dtilt

aether even. idk

 

[Commander]

It is a good edge guard tool when charged somewhat because it has a big hit box in front of and above it. This allows you to be a little farther from the edge so you won't get hit by the opponent's recovery attack. Also I'm pretty sure I've spiked an Ivysaur out of their reeling animation with it so it can be a great anti-tether move.

I think it would be possible to spike an opponent off stage with it, but only if you wave bounce it. That way you would get the momentum and spacing burst you would need to get into position. It would still be incredibly unlikely, but I'd totally go for it. It would be the sickest spike in history.

If the move was a little less laggy at the end it seems like you could convert into some aerial combos when edge guarding and just missing the spike but still getting a hit.

 

[br8k]

oh my god you type exactly like i do

wtf

but real talk

it might have some situation use for edgeguarding

but why not just fair or something

or dair

or dtilt

aether even. idk

My typing style shifts constantly and inexplicably.

f-air seems like it would be more complicated to use but probably more versatile. d-air has its uses which are separate. It lacks the super armor. D-tilt lacks the poking range beneath the stage, and the super armor.

I mean seriously, Eruption muscles through up-B recoveries AND pokes pretty far down at the edge, AND spikes in that poke. Surely it is srs bsns. Requires further study.

 

[Commander]

My typing style shifts constantly and inexplicably.

f-air seems like it would be more complicated to use but probably more versatile. d-air has its uses which are separate. It lacks the super armor. D-tilt lacks the poking range beneath the stage, and the super armor.

I mean seriously, Eruption muscles through up-B recoveries AND pokes pretty far down at the edge, AND spikes in that poke. Surely it is srs bsns. Requires further study.

Fair is an awesome and easy edge guard tool. You either just shffl it with good timing, or even easier is to just walk of the stage and fair. It almost rivals shine spikes in how stupid it is as an edge guard. I find dair is better suited for on stage combos and platform pokes than edge guards. I can't seem to land it ever.

I'm sure Eruption will prove to have great uses as the meta develops.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Eruption = **** Spacing

If you have that read though, again, FSmash is plain better.

Commander makes a very interesting point about it being an anti-tether recovery - but a lot of reel-in's (particularly Ivy's) are fast enough that you need a read on the Eruption. I've also started seeing Links and Ivys tether, let go and re-tether to stall for a bit and throw off edgeguard timings, though of course that near cleanly eats up their ledge grab limits.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

yeah, I've only been messing around with Ike in training mode, but that fair is REALLY beastly

I'll post here all the info I have of Eruption when I finish the move

 

[Commander]

Eruption = **** Spacing

If you have that read though, again, FSmash is plain better.

Commander makes a very interesting point about it being an anti-tether recovery - but a lot of reel-in's (particularly Ivy's) are fast enough that you need a read on the Eruption. I've also started seeing Links and Ivys tether, let go and re-tether to stall for a bit and throw off edgeguard timings, though of course that near cleanly eats up their ledge grab limits.

Fsmash doesn't hit low enough to stop people who know how to sweet spot. I prefer Eruption even if I am not exactly on the ledge because the hit box is much bigger than it seems and people tend to fall for it. Eruption can outlast most tethers regrabbing the ledge unless they are particularly stall heavy. SoCal is very impatient though so I don't know how much trouble I will have with that.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Fsmash doesn't hit low enough to stop people who know how to sweet spot. I prefer Eruption even if I am not exactly on the ledge because the hit box is much bigger than it seems and people tend to fall for it. Eruption can outlast most tethers regrabbing the ledge unless they are particularly stall heavy. SoCal is very impatient though so I don't know how much trouble I will have with that.

My point was more that Eruption is slow compared to reel speed, so you'd have to read because you couldn't react. I'm going to experiment with it ofc. but when it comes to blocking tethers I'd say ledgedrop dair is strictly better. Lingering hitboxes and all.

 

[Commander]

My point was more that Eruption is slow compared to reel speed, so you'd have to read because you couldn't react. I'm going to experiment with it ofc. but when it comes to blocking tethers I'd say ledgedrop dair is strictly better. Lingering hitboxes and all.

Maybe Eruption is better on characters with shorter tethers(Link, Lucas, etc.) because you are more likely to hit them while the walk off dair is better for longer tethers(ZSS, Ivysaur, etc.).

 

[King of Hoboz]

There's one useful match-up for Eruption, Squirtle. Squirtle's recovery outright loses to Eruption. If he waterfall, its very easy to armor through and kill Squirtle before he grabs the ledge.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah, you're right. Already I'm starting to the see the value of the armor v/s a lot of recoveries, and it's a good punish for people trying to sweetspot if you weren't able to get to ledge on time.

 

[br8k]

There's one useful match-up for Eruption, Squirtle. Squirtle's recovery outright loses to Eruption. If he waterfall, its very easy to armor through and kill Squirtle before he grabs the ledge.

It should work this way for the majority of recoveries. I mean, it's a big explosion around the edge, with a big spike hitbox at the edge itself. Just takes great timing. The launch angle isn't as good as an f-smash or f-air though. If you don't kill them outright, you give them an easy recovery. Aside from having to get past your up airs.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

hi

When you release Eruption from it's charging state:

Heavy Armor: 5-10 (200 knockback)
Light Armor: 11-14 (80 knockback)

Hitboxes on: 11-14

Hitbox 0: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 11, Explosive/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 1: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 8.5, Explosive/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 4: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 270, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang

Hitboxes on 15-18

Hitbox 0: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 3.4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 1: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 3.4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 2: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 3.4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 3: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 3.4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang
Hitbox 4: 9%, 13 shield damage, angle 80, 60 BKB, 100 KBG, Size 3.4, Sword/Aura, cannot clang

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So...

How does heavy vs light work? I have never heard of that. Is ist some sort of fixed knockback resistance? Like the Master hand has infinite knockback resistance or something like that.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm unsure how it works at the moment, what I do know is that it's knockback based (ala Snake's up b super armor???????? exept with knockback and not percent)

I THINK

that yoshi's double jump in brawl

has knockback super armor

iunno by how much though

I'm not sure if 80 is light though...

Edit: I figured it out: http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v2.339825/page-447#post-16508394

**** unhelpful ******** *****

 

[King of Hoboz]

It should work this way for the majority of recoveries. I mean, it's a big explosion around the edge, with a big spike hitbox at the edge itself. Just takes great timing. The launch angle isn't as good as an f-smash or f-air though. If you don't kill them outright, you give them an easy recovery. Aside from having to get past your up airs.

Which is why I mentioned Squirtle in particular, his timing is by far the easiest, and I've noticed Squirtle rarely isn't trying to go for the ledge/near the ledge (maybe that's just me). He's such a light little bugga that if you don't spike him, he'll probably die from the top. I'd say Mario, but I actually can't consistently hit him with Eruption honestly.

 

[NWRL]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the help.

 

[Commander]

Which is why I mentioned Squirtle in particular, his timing is by far the easiest, and I've noticed Squirtle rarely isn't trying to go for the ledge/near the ledge (maybe that's just me). He's such a light little bugga that if you don't spike him, he'll probably die from the top. I'd say Mario, but I actually can't consistently hit him with Eruption honestly.

I've only played against a few Marios but his up special seems very easy to dtilt because his recovery is a bit awkward and has a tendency to send him just above the ledge. F smash is a great option to since you may miss the dtilt because of the speed of Mario's up special.

 

[Burnsy]

As a Squirtle main, I would agree that a well timed eruption would be difficult to deal with when recovering, with the exception of walled stages since he can side-b over to the wall and then wall cling to stall out eruptions charge up time before recovering. Still, it will beat his only two recovery moves, up-b and aqua jet (side-b's secondary attack), so it's probably one of your better options.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Funnily enough, Ganondorf is pretty safe from Eruption, since at certain spacings, both his recovery moves will grab Ike right out of his super armor. But if you have a Ganon offstage, why are you charging an Eruption?

 

[NWRL]

You have a deathwish obviously.

 

[PyroTakun]

I've used it to spike Link once or twice when he tether-grabs the edge.

Still not sure if it's dumb luck or a legit tactic/ use for it though. . . .

 

[metroid1117]

It's worth noting that Ike can freely drift in the air while charging Eruption, which allows you to use it to get back to the ground in certain situations since you can armor through most attacks at low % and the hitbox/power of the move is usually enough to ward off most people.

 

[SuperNova!]

It has been my experience that it works pretty well to fend off your opponent's attempts to juggle you. When you're falling back towards the stage, give it a short charge and then release it when they try to attack you or just over their head if they sit there. But I don't play as Ike much, so don't take this as gospel or anything.

 

[AllyKnight]

Didn't read anything but Eruption utility for me

at Low percent it can actually lead to combos, so use it when you know someone will try to punish you with something ^.^.

When someone is trying to get you in the air (Say after Fox knocked you really high in the sky, Fox is gooing to double jump uair you as you fall down but he can't see you in the actual game screen because you're in the fray) I usually come down with Neutral B and move around the ledge, if I miss, oh well I grab the ledge anyways, worst case scenario, I still die or I power armor the hit and hit him.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's a good anti-professorPro move

 

[Crezyte]

IMO eruption is pretty good at edge guarding certain characters. Donkey Kong and Bowser can't really sweet spot the ledge and you power through their up b's with it. Also, link/samus can't up-b when you do it. I haven't played a sonic but I would assume that it is also good vs sonic and GnW. I haven't beed able to edge guard Ryo's Roy though... he is so tricky

 

[Commander]

IMO eruption is pretty good at edge guarding certain characters. Donkey Kong and Bowser can't really sweet spot the ledge and you power through their up b's with it. Also, link/samus can't up-b when you do it. I haven't played a sonic but I would assume that it is also good vs sonic and GnW. I haven't beed able to edge guard Ryo's Roy though... he is so tricky

Here is how to edge guard Roy.

Step 1:Counter

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Here is how to edge guard Roy.

Step 1:Counter

This man speaks the truth.

 

[metroid1117]

Counter works well if they up+B early, but I don't think it will hit them if they sweetspot properly.

 

[Commander]

Counter works well if they up+B early, but I don't think it will hit them if they sweetspot properly.

It doesn't work if they know how to sweet spot. At that point a well timed eruption should work.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Counter works well if they up+B early, but I don't think it will hit them if they sweetspot properly.

Late reply I know, but if you watch Sethlon you'll see that he and most good Roys are in the habit of Up-B'ing early because of Flare Blade's forward coverage and priority. It's an incredibly common mix-up Roys use and reading it with Counter can net you a very rewarding punish.