Striking FD and DL is what you should be doing.
He'll strike YI and you go to either Fountain or BF for the first game.
Then you ban FD
He bans YI
you go to PS or BF or Fountain.
-
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Data Falco Matchup Thread
- Thread starter FalcoMatchups
- Start date
He'll strike YI and you go to either Fountain or BF for the first game.
Then you ban FD
He bans YI
you go to PS or BF or Fountain.
Renth
Smash Hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0f3Yz7N6DI
Dashizwiz money matching Slam Chops 4 days ago.
More shiz videos vs. me coming soon. (He's too good t.t)
Dashizwiz money matching Slam Chops 4 days ago.
More shiz videos vs. me coming soon. (He's too good t.t)
KP17
Banned via Administration
dl is better than fountain vs peach imo
KP17
Banned via Administration
id rather deal with peach surviving longer and having way better platform camping options than goign to Fod and losing certain laser heights and not having much space to work with
mas_torque
Smash Apprentice
I'm also struggling with the sheik mu. I feel helpless in neutral and I don't know how to deal with her sitting on a platform. I typically full jump or dj laser to try to get her down, but the particular player I'm struggling against will get down and then I don't know how to safely get back on stage. Coming down with an aerial gets me outspaced and grabbed, and I feel too pressured if I simply come down. Lasers feel too unsafe at that point.
I'm also struggling with shield pressure to the point where I'm considering changing mains because it simply isn't working. I try to delay aerials when I'm getting grabbed before shines, but it doesn't seem to get me anywhere. I delay it as much as possible but nothing seems to work. I get grabbed before my shine can come out. Is this just because
shield pressure is always unsafe?
After nights like tonight, nothing about playing Falco seems worth while
I'm also struggling with shield pressure to the point where I'm considering changing mains because it simply isn't working. I try to delay aerials when I'm getting grabbed before shines, but it doesn't seem to get me anywhere. I delay it as much as possible but nothing seems to work. I get grabbed before my shine can come out. Is this just because
shield pressure is always unsafe?
After nights like tonight, nothing about playing Falco seems worth while
KP17
Banned via Administration
bait her movements off the platform. If the sheik is smart it wont want to let you underneath her. I'll bait with potential lasers by short hopping under the opposite side plat and waiting for sheik to go somewhere. you cant do things for free if sheik can fall off a platform in your near vicinity. I can call out her movement to the top plat on most stages by simply full hopping. In neutral, take advantage of CC percents alot. The most crucial part of the mu in neutral is taking advantage of that whilst avoiding grabs.
shield pressure can work. i broke a peach's shield in a last stock situation in tournament last week, its all about being comfortable with delayed dair/nair shine, spaced early dair/nair shine, and mid/late nair shine (doing dair anything but late and spaced near the bottom of their shield can get you shield grabbed bc dair has more l cancel lag). You have to mixup with grabs as well. Shield pressure is always *eventually* unsafe, you have to use your judgement how much to engage their shield
shield pressure can work. i broke a peach's shield in a last stock situation in tournament last week, its all about being comfortable with delayed dair/nair shine, spaced early dair/nair shine, and mid/late nair shine (doing dair anything but late and spaced near the bottom of their shield can get you shield grabbed bc dair has more l cancel lag). You have to mixup with grabs as well. Shield pressure is always *eventually* unsafe, you have to use your judgement how much to engage their shield
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
I've struggled with shield pressure a lot as well; Fox's shine oos is super good and my foot gets grabbed when I'm doing early fadeaway nairs. I've thought of a few options, but I'd like to hear what others think. Keep in mind that I mostly have experience against Fox.
Once hitting a shield with a late aerial, l-canceling, and shining:
Double shine - it's risky if your tech sucks, but you can always waveland onto a platform if you end up in the air on the second shine unless you're on DL or FD. It nabbs people trying to do stuff immediately after your first shine.
Shine grab - If they want to try to play it passive and stay in shield. Kinda sucks if you accidentally shield poke. #Marth #GameAndWatch
Fading nair - if you nair too early/high, they can grab your foot on the way down no matter how far you've spaced back in my experience, which leads me to thinking that fading fair might be a good option because your foot disappears a couple frames after the hitbox comes out and can't get hit.
In general, getting behind shields, especially against Falcon and Marth, seems to be a bit safer.
What does everyone think?
Once hitting a shield with a late aerial, l-canceling, and shining:
Double shine - it's risky if your tech sucks, but you can always waveland onto a platform if you end up in the air on the second shine unless you're on DL or FD. It nabbs people trying to do stuff immediately after your first shine.
Shine grab - If they want to try to play it passive and stay in shield. Kinda sucks if you accidentally shield poke. #Marth #GameAndWatch
Fading nair - if you nair too early/high, they can grab your foot on the way down no matter how far you've spaced back in my experience, which leads me to thinking that fading fair might be a good option because your foot disappears a couple frames after the hitbox comes out and can't get hit.
In general, getting behind shields, especially against Falcon and Marth, seems to be a bit safer.
What does everyone think?
mas_torque
Smash Apprentice
I've made huge improvements! My pool was pretty stacked at FP4 but I got 5th and went 6-4 for my sets so if I level up just a bit more I'll start making it out of pools :D
AND I'VE STARTED BREAKING SHIELDS. FEELS SO GOOD MAN.
I like that idea for fadeaway fair. I use a lot of crossup uair in my pressure so like late nair > shine > uair through their shield. Obviously there's shine OoS if playing spacies, but it has some cool properties. Spaced properly, soft shield pokes bait shield grabs stupid hard. Since you face the direction you get hit, uair pokes will leave you behind the opponent regardless of which way they faced at first as long as you do it right. Soft hit connects, they panic and try to grab but it whiffs, boom punish. Even if it doesn't it's a weird mixup that no one's used to. Late uairs on weak shields can also get first hit to poke and the second strong hit to launch into a punish
Next thing I want to work on is better baiting from/onto platforms and heavier spatial pressure like DD after a pillar string
AND I'VE STARTED BREAKING SHIELDS. FEELS SO GOOD MAN.
I like that idea for fadeaway fair. I use a lot of crossup uair in my pressure so like late nair > shine > uair through their shield. Obviously there's shine OoS if playing spacies, but it has some cool properties. Spaced properly, soft shield pokes bait shield grabs stupid hard. Since you face the direction you get hit, uair pokes will leave you behind the opponent regardless of which way they faced at first as long as you do it right. Soft hit connects, they panic and try to grab but it whiffs, boom punish. Even if it doesn't it's a weird mixup that no one's used to. Late uairs on weak shields can also get first hit to poke and the second strong hit to launch into a punish
Next thing I want to work on is better baiting from/onto platforms and heavier spatial pressure like DD after a pillar string
SSS
Smash Ace
i like that upair stuff.
Samus help pretty please. Up-B OoS is wrecking my ****. I'm starting to space bairs and stuff and do like nair through shield to behind, and sometimes I jump in, shine, and DJ dair and she'll up-B as I hit her out of it. SHL to grab sometimes works, but I usually get up-B'd before grab comes out. Maybe I could jump in and airdodge back for some really sketchy upB baits? How do you guys approach it?
oukd
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
dont expend so many resources just to play around her upb...like, dj dairing after going in on her shield just to counter an upb is a pretty unnecessary commitment that doesnt net you that much either (low% samus jumping into dj dair can actually put you in a bad position). you can probably get more mileage just going in with [aerial > shield block upb > punish]
airdodge isnt gonna work lol <_< its fairly easy to react to
in my mind, crossup on her shield while spacing far enough from upb should be pretty good if you wait, but under that circumstance samus has a fast wd oos that'll reset. crossup into another attack can catch wd oos but it risks getting nicked by upb oos
for playing around upb oos, i prefer to tap samus' shield occasionally and either block (keep in mind her grab though) or let it whiff, but my mixups on shield arent really fleshed out for either
i also need to work on being cognizant of my shield size for blocking upb lol
usually i just grab when i can. uthrow is pretty strong vs samus... remember that you dont have the comfy [late aerial > shinegrab] confirm that works vs everyone else since her upb can hit you before grab lands (though you can probably [late aerial > waveshine away])
laser on shield is pretty upb-able but you can try to tighten the timing for lasergrab (idk the frames on this but it seems punishable). also [laser > waveshine away] is similar to above last part
err also try not to do too many long distance early aerials, those are super easy to upb oos since shieldstun is lower and samus has all the time in the world to react
hope that helps lmao
(fyi my vs samus game is pretty bad too so take what i say with a grain of salt)
airdodge isnt gonna work lol <_< its fairly easy to react to
in my mind, crossup on her shield while spacing far enough from upb should be pretty good if you wait, but under that circumstance samus has a fast wd oos that'll reset. crossup into another attack can catch wd oos but it risks getting nicked by upb oos
for playing around upb oos, i prefer to tap samus' shield occasionally and either block (keep in mind her grab though) or let it whiff, but my mixups on shield arent really fleshed out for either
i also need to work on being cognizant of my shield size for blocking upb lol
usually i just grab when i can. uthrow is pretty strong vs samus... remember that you dont have the comfy [late aerial > shinegrab] confirm that works vs everyone else since her upb can hit you before grab lands (though you can probably [late aerial > waveshine away])
laser on shield is pretty upb-able but you can try to tighten the timing for lasergrab (idk the frames on this but it seems punishable). also [laser > waveshine away] is similar to above last part
err also try not to do too many long distance early aerials, those are super easy to upb oos since shieldstun is lower and samus has all the time in the world to react
hope that helps lmao
(fyi my vs samus game is pretty bad too so take what i say with a grain of salt)
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Renth
Smash Hero
ignore .
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OgiEthan
Smash Apprentice
Bold statements
KP17
Banned via Administration
not bold
platform camping >>>>>>>>>>>> platforms forcing you to not laser lol
that being said there are combo advantages and blastzone advantages to fod. those are pretty much the only advantages in the falco peach matchup compared to dreamland, stagewise.
platform camping >>>>>>>>>>>> platforms forcing you to not laser lol
that being said there are combo advantages and blastzone advantages to fod. those are pretty much the only advantages in the falco peach matchup compared to dreamland, stagewise.
Russ The Love Muss
I just want to love you
It would be nice if this was updated and maybe some of the more common low tier matchups were added. Also some formatting would be nice as it's quite difficult to read 
flacofaloc
Smash Cadet
Am I the only one who seriously struggles with Sheik?
Drynanigans
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1
This is awesome
tschafer64
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2014
- Messages
- 9
Yeah I definitely agree with this. With more and more people playing smash it seems it is not enough to know only the top tier matchups, not to mention some of this info is slightly dated i.e. counterpick to brinstar, rainbow cruise, etc.It would be nice if this was updated and maybe some of the more common low tier matchups were added. Also some formatting would be nice as it's quite difficult to read
EUROPEANonymous
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2014
- Messages
- 14
hey guys i'm a newcomer from EU
can someone know where i can find advices as falco vs marth ?
it seems like i always get gimp by every moves lol
i searched but i couldnt find it
thx
can someone know where i can find advices as falco vs marth ?
it seems like i always get gimp by every moves lol
i searched but i couldnt find it
thx
You'd probably have better luck asking in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/
I should honestly probably close this one at this point since it hasn't been updated in years.
I should honestly probably close this one at this point since it hasn't been updated in years.
T0RN
I'm Torn
thx
good tips
good tips
NFST4R
Smash Cadet
I DAIR you to do another guide as good as this one. lol
Chinaux
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 632
your signature doesn't make sense. fox is faster than falco, why not just switch them?
PeachyBreeze
Smash Rookie
Nice insight against the Marth matchup though !
Mikkelmann
Mentally Untouchable
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2014
- Messages
- 772
This is really good thanks.
i think this thread should be unstickied because a lot of the information in it is very old and naive for the standards of today's meta and it was never even completed. it's great to have matchup guides stickied but this no longer constitutes a high quality and comprehensive matchup guide and hasnt for a while now
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The24thGanondorf
Smash Cadet
Brinstar is more of a party stage than a tourney-legal stage, but the acid still makes it fun, especially for getting kiss-the-floor KOs.
jalued
Smash Lord
Any chance that this will be updated to include peach, falco and IC matchups? Would also be great to see a Doc and samus one too
Vista_
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2016
- Messages
- 39
Fox is better on the ground if there's no lazer out.
Hey, I've compiled the falco vs samus data i could get from this and other threads below. Is it possible for OP to add it to original or wherever? Thanks!
Samus sucks in the air, doesn't really have a shield grab/strong OOS option, and has low mobility overall.
Lasers stop her already bad mobility.
Shining/throwing Samus in the air is great even if you can't get a combo because she doesn't have much priority in the air and can't move through it quickly. Abuse Uptilt to wreck her from below. Bair sometimes to keep her honest.
When you're on the ground, keep lasers out and then just space on Samus' shield and grab it once in a while. You don't really need shines unless you hit confirm vs Samus because her up-B OOS beats your shine clean. She can only move backward and that is when you can take stage and try to hit her if you get a solid read.
Dair is the only approach you really need vs Samus because it's better for shield poking usually iirc and Samus can't CC it like she loves to do.
#223Dr Peepee
Samus projectiles are pretty good if they actually hit you, but most of them aren't too hard to avoid. You can simply nair through the missiles with your moves. I suggest to do it with aerials (nair is probably best) to stay mobile. Your projectile on the other hand can't be destroyed and is way more usefull. Your laser is very important. It can be used for a lot of things like edgeguarding, approaching, gaining space etc.
When you approach you need to be carefull because you don't want to attack her shield too much. Her Up-B is hella quick and will even beat an L cancelled aerial into shine. Also watch if she crouch cancels. If she does it's better to back up and laser a bit more because if you go in you'll get a down smash in your face. Her little down b bomb can also be usefull to create a small wall when you approach so make there aren't any of those if you approach. Laser grab is very good if the samus shields a lot or even shield grabs. Once you get a hit with your aerial you obviously want to take it as far as possible. It's hard to combo with shine on floaties so i prefer uptilt most of the time but shine will work if you're quick enough. After that you want to hit him with a dair again and *make sure you fastfall after it*. After your second dair you really wanna pay attention because she might be able to get out a nair before you can follow up your combo. A simple wavedash away can get you out of the hitbox and you'll be able to follow up from there. At higher % it's better to combo aerial into aerial like dair to dair or dair to nair. Your kill moves will probably be bair, nair, dair, f smash and d tilt most of time. I really like d tilt since it's fast and kills around 100%.
Moves you need to look out for the most are nair, d smash, up b (already talked about it) and grab. Her nair is one of the best sex kicks in the game. It stays out long and is great for edgeguarding. If you notice the samus always goes in with nair for edgeguarding try to stay further of the ledge. If she uses it for approach you can laser her down shield and then maybe shine oos. You never want to walk into a d smash (like leffen vs duck at dreamhack on FD). It's not as bad as peach but you will get comboed. Most samus players use it after they crouch cancelled something. I don't really know a solution for this but i think it's just about knowing when they're using it and trying to avoid the CC's. Her grab is the longest in the game but also has a long startup time. You can try to bait it with some tricky movement but you gotta really watch your spacing. If you can react to it, don't underestimate the length of it and run back a bit and then you get a free punish. Spot dodge can also work but you need to watch your timing when doing it.
I don't have a lot of experience with samus myself but i know it's very playeble once you understand the matchup.
Some nice vods to watch from the matchup are westballz vs plup at tbh4, ppmd vs hugs at evo and mango vs hugs at mayhem
Michelangelo
I'll try to type the things that haven't already been said. Samus has a great punish and edgeguard game vs spacies but has no safe approach.
Falco is known for having one of the best if not the best neutral game in melee because of his SHL. Meaning that you should always win neutral against her.
It's an unorthodox MU because Falco mains usually tend to go in combo ppl to hell or die trying. But to win this MU you gotta be patient.
Samus' neutral game consists on her baiting a move out by dashing forward and wavedashing backward.
Before going in with an aerial you might want to get her out of her crouch cancel percentage. Grab, shine, dair > uptilt/down tilt/ shine are the moves to go when she is at cc %.
Mix up your approaches as much as you can so u don't get up b'ed OoS. SH > wave land away, shield stop > wd back, SHL > grab and F tilt are good options.
When shielding Samus can safely poke it with jab > cc > jab > cc... so u better roll away asap. If she goes for a grab, listen to the sound cue and roll in on reaction and then punish her with w/e u like.
For edge guarding if you're on stage, laser her until she recovers low. Then dair, down smash or retreat to a distance out of her fairs range. If you're on the edge and she recovers low then shine > bair. Or ledge hop dair.
Kill moves:
SHL > d tilt
Spike
Bair
Down smash
F smash
Stage priority:
FD
PS
BF
YS
DL
FoD
KJ
#5krazyzyko
Step 1: try avoiding PS/FoD
Step 2: don't get hit near the ledge, or up-tilted/missiled/smashed/grabbed
Step 3: spam laser & SHFFL nair combos
Step 4: read and counter crouch-cancel[-ed down smashes] with crossup-dair spam
Step 5: repeat steps 2-4 as needed
Step 6: repeat step 5 until you see a controller fly or you hear "misshun compreet"
#6KムエN,
Samus help pretty please. Up-B OoS is wrecking my ****. I'm starting to space bairs and stuff and do like nair through shield to behind, and sometimes I jump in, shine, and DJ dair and she'll up-B as I hit her out of it. SHL to grab sometimes works, but I usually get up-B'd before grab comes out. Maybe I could jump in and airdodge back for some really sketchy upB baits? How do you guys approach it?
#249SSS
dont expend so many resources just to play around her upb...like, dj dairing after going in on her shield just to counter an upb is a pretty unnecessary commitment that doesnt net you that much either (low% samus jumping into dj dair can actually put you in a bad position). you can probably get more mileage just going in with [aerial > shield block upb > punish]
airdodge isnt gonna work lol <_< its fairly easy to react to
in my mind, crossup on her shield while spacing far enough from upb should be pretty good if you wait, but under that circumstance samus has a fast wd oos that'll reset. crossup into another attack can catch wd oos but it risks getting nicked by upb oos
for playing around upb oos, i prefer to tap samus' shield occasionally and either block (keep in mind her grab though) or let it whiff, but my mixups on shield arent really fleshed out for either
i also need to work on being cognizant of my shield size for blocking upb lol
usually i just grab when i can. uthrow is pretty strong vs samus... remember that you dont have the comfy [late aerial > shinegrab] confirm that works vs everyone else since her upb can hit you before grab lands (though you can probably [late aerial > waveshine away])
laser on shield is pretty upb-able but you can try to tighten the timing for lasergrab (idk the frames on this but it seems punishable). also [laser > waveshine away] is similar to above last part
err also try not to do too many long distance early aerials, those are super easy to upb oos since shieldstun is lower and samus has all the time in the world to react
hope that helps lmao
(fyi my vs samus game is pretty bad too so take what i say with a grain of salt)
#250dkuo
Samus sucks in the air, doesn't really have a shield grab/strong OOS option, and has low mobility overall.
Lasers stop her already bad mobility.
Shining/throwing Samus in the air is great even if you can't get a combo because she doesn't have much priority in the air and can't move through it quickly. Abuse Uptilt to wreck her from below. Bair sometimes to keep her honest.
When you're on the ground, keep lasers out and then just space on Samus' shield and grab it once in a while. You don't really need shines unless you hit confirm vs Samus because her up-B OOS beats your shine clean. She can only move backward and that is when you can take stage and try to hit her if you get a solid read.
Dair is the only approach you really need vs Samus because it's better for shield poking usually iirc and Samus can't CC it like she loves to do.
#223Dr Peepee
Samus projectiles are pretty good if they actually hit you, but most of them aren't too hard to avoid. You can simply nair through the missiles with your moves. I suggest to do it with aerials (nair is probably best) to stay mobile. Your projectile on the other hand can't be destroyed and is way more usefull. Your laser is very important. It can be used for a lot of things like edgeguarding, approaching, gaining space etc.
When you approach you need to be carefull because you don't want to attack her shield too much. Her Up-B is hella quick and will even beat an L cancelled aerial into shine. Also watch if she crouch cancels. If she does it's better to back up and laser a bit more because if you go in you'll get a down smash in your face. Her little down b bomb can also be usefull to create a small wall when you approach so make there aren't any of those if you approach. Laser grab is very good if the samus shields a lot or even shield grabs. Once you get a hit with your aerial you obviously want to take it as far as possible. It's hard to combo with shine on floaties so i prefer uptilt most of the time but shine will work if you're quick enough. After that you want to hit him with a dair again and *make sure you fastfall after it*. After your second dair you really wanna pay attention because she might be able to get out a nair before you can follow up your combo. A simple wavedash away can get you out of the hitbox and you'll be able to follow up from there. At higher % it's better to combo aerial into aerial like dair to dair or dair to nair. Your kill moves will probably be bair, nair, dair, f smash and d tilt most of time. I really like d tilt since it's fast and kills around 100%.
Moves you need to look out for the most are nair, d smash, up b (already talked about it) and grab. Her nair is one of the best sex kicks in the game. It stays out long and is great for edgeguarding. If you notice the samus always goes in with nair for edgeguarding try to stay further of the ledge. If she uses it for approach you can laser her down shield and then maybe shine oos. You never want to walk into a d smash (like leffen vs duck at dreamhack on FD). It's not as bad as peach but you will get comboed. Most samus players use it after they crouch cancelled something. I don't really know a solution for this but i think it's just about knowing when they're using it and trying to avoid the CC's. Her grab is the longest in the game but also has a long startup time. You can try to bait it with some tricky movement but you gotta really watch your spacing. If you can react to it, don't underestimate the length of it and run back a bit and then you get a free punish. Spot dodge can also work but you need to watch your timing when doing it.
I don't have a lot of experience with samus myself but i know it's very playeble once you understand the matchup.
Some nice vods to watch from the matchup are westballz vs plup at tbh4, ppmd vs hugs at evo and mango vs hugs at mayhem
Michelangelo
I'll try to type the things that haven't already been said. Samus has a great punish and edgeguard game vs spacies but has no safe approach.
Falco is known for having one of the best if not the best neutral game in melee because of his SHL. Meaning that you should always win neutral against her.
It's an unorthodox MU because Falco mains usually tend to go in combo ppl to hell or die trying. But to win this MU you gotta be patient.
Samus' neutral game consists on her baiting a move out by dashing forward and wavedashing backward.
Before going in with an aerial you might want to get her out of her crouch cancel percentage. Grab, shine, dair > uptilt/down tilt/ shine are the moves to go when she is at cc %.
Mix up your approaches as much as you can so u don't get up b'ed OoS. SH > wave land away, shield stop > wd back, SHL > grab and F tilt are good options.
When shielding Samus can safely poke it with jab > cc > jab > cc... so u better roll away asap. If she goes for a grab, listen to the sound cue and roll in on reaction and then punish her with w/e u like.
For edge guarding if you're on stage, laser her until she recovers low. Then dair, down smash or retreat to a distance out of her fairs range. If you're on the edge and she recovers low then shine > bair. Or ledge hop dair.
Kill moves:
SHL > d tilt
Spike
Bair
Down smash
F smash
Stage priority:
FD
PS
BF
YS
DL
FoD
KJ
#5krazyzyko
Step 1: try avoiding PS/FoD
Step 2: don't get hit near the ledge, or up-tilted/missiled/smashed/grabbed
Step 3: spam laser & SHFFL nair combos
Step 4: read and counter crouch-cancel[-ed down smashes] with crossup-dair spam
Step 5: repeat steps 2-4 as needed
Step 6: repeat step 5 until you see a controller fly or you hear "misshun compreet"
#6KムエN,
Samus help pretty please. Up-B OoS is wrecking my ****. I'm starting to space bairs and stuff and do like nair through shield to behind, and sometimes I jump in, shine, and DJ dair and she'll up-B as I hit her out of it. SHL to grab sometimes works, but I usually get up-B'd before grab comes out. Maybe I could jump in and airdodge back for some really sketchy upB baits? How do you guys approach it?
#249SSS
dont expend so many resources just to play around her upb...like, dj dairing after going in on her shield just to counter an upb is a pretty unnecessary commitment that doesnt net you that much either (low% samus jumping into dj dair can actually put you in a bad position). you can probably get more mileage just going in with [aerial > shield block upb > punish]
airdodge isnt gonna work lol <_< its fairly easy to react to
in my mind, crossup on her shield while spacing far enough from upb should be pretty good if you wait, but under that circumstance samus has a fast wd oos that'll reset. crossup into another attack can catch wd oos but it risks getting nicked by upb oos
for playing around upb oos, i prefer to tap samus' shield occasionally and either block (keep in mind her grab though) or let it whiff, but my mixups on shield arent really fleshed out for either
i also need to work on being cognizant of my shield size for blocking upb lol
usually i just grab when i can. uthrow is pretty strong vs samus... remember that you dont have the comfy [late aerial > shinegrab] confirm that works vs everyone else since her upb can hit you before grab lands (though you can probably [late aerial > waveshine away])
laser on shield is pretty upb-able but you can try to tighten the timing for lasergrab (idk the frames on this but it seems punishable). also [laser > waveshine away] is similar to above last part
err also try not to do too many long distance early aerials, those are super easy to upb oos since shieldstun is lower and samus has all the time in the world to react
hope that helps lmao
(fyi my vs samus game is pretty bad too so take what i say with a grain of salt)
#250dkuo