feeling stale yet?

[sesshomaru]

I know i am. I was going to post this in general brawl discussion but i'm sure it would have been met with flames on how "dis isnt da melee 20! Dont play it!!" This IMO is a horrible argument and i keep out of it. Yes brawl has changed from melee as melee did from 64.

This leads to my problem, I've been playing all those for years now, obviously my favorite franchise up until now. I like brawl in a sense as it does bring new quirks but with this installment it feels like im getting ready to put it down. Fox (my fav main from day 1) feels like he's already been mastered by me. Thats terrible, i was never content in melee as there was ALWAYS something to improve. Nail 4 waveshines, good but why didn't it lead to a shine spike? There were goals. Now its just hey, win that match? If its a no than you yourself were simply outsmarted or counterpick. This is very old to me already and i feel like I've done it all before, only now I can't push my character further.

How are you coping with this ceiling fox thread?

 

[orintemple]

Of course it is true that all characters have much less potential than in Melee. The game is also VERY heavy with counterpicking since skill gaps are much tighter between players due to the lack of potential in the game. Example: I am considered easily the best player overall at my college(not being arrogant, multiple people have said it) where we have a large Smash player crowd, but if someone picks Zelda against me I can lose that fight even if the player is not as good as I am just because Zelda own Fox.

As for fun, no. I am not ready to put the game down as I still feel that there is a lot to learn. You can always improve your mindgames and strategy even if technical skills are very simple to master. I am not sure how long it will take me to get tired of Brawl, but hopefully I will not. I always have people to play with, which helps a lot in terms of motivation for playing. If you have many people to play with it may help.

 

[sesshomaru]

You don't sound arrogant trust me. Thats the way this game is, my samus friend who plays her solely for "da big ball" can now fight me one on one. Thats insane lol. In terms of just turning it on for some stupid matches with friends its still somewhat decent, its fun to pick ike and land an amazing hit no doubt. However i am talking more about the pro aspect of brawl. Ive been surfin vids and i see stuff like "best (whoever) player v a guy that was once amazing at melee. Watchin some of these you already kinda see the pattern of yes they're both good but the only difference is a counterpick or a screw up. Thats what i wanna hear input on, what are the rest of you guys doin to give yourself that edge and do you even think you can truly have one in brawl.

IMO its all counter picks once you get your game down. i got my team lined up and i am gonna give the tourney scene some shots but if after a few we're all playin the same i for one may regretfully retire.

 

[DJT88]

I know exaclty what you mean, I like brawl a lot, but for very different reasons than melee. For me brawl is fun to play with friends who aren't very good to begin with because it's always a gong show, and there are a lot of laughs, it's also fun to play with people who are good, but there seems to be a ceiling in skill that when players reach that level, it's alway going to be a 50/50 fight or counterpicks, etc. Melee was a game where I could sit for hours playing 1v1 matches or practicing techs by myself and have fun. But in brawl I can only play by myself for about ten minutes before I'm bored, it's true you can work on mindgames and all, but you need other people for that, whreas in melee tech skill could be improved while playing by yourself. For now I'm just waitng for techs to be discovered, and trying random things myself. I'll play brawl with friends, but I will always be up for a melee match.

 

[Juker]

I was feeling like I had started to hit this ceiling a little while back, then I started to figure out new things, and began using moves differently. I think the thing that really helped me break free, was not trying to play Fox like I did in melee; his moves are so different. Why don't you post a video of yourself playing, so others can help you, and we can see what needs improvement. I'll tell you this, you haven't capped out, if you kept playing, and your current self met yourself in a year from now, I bet I know who'd win.

 

[DJT88]

I'm sure my future self would kick my a**, but that's not my point. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement, that's why I'm still trying random stuff with brawl. But like you said, it's about learning to use techniques and moves differently right now, not perfecting techs. In order to learn how to use techniques differently you need to play with other people to see what works, and what doesn't, since cpu's don't DI properly etc. I'm sure new techs will be discovered, but for now I feel like I've hit a wall, which is way sooner than I'd hoped. I still enjoy playing with other people for hours, but I just wish I could spend hours by myself like I used to without getting bored.

 

[Vice Lord]

**** it's a bit depressing indeed, after reading these comments i have to agree with them.
Yeah DJT, in melee i could practice 0->death combos and techs and have fun with just that on a cpu, but in brawl 2 rounds against a cpu and i'm snoozing. Good thing we have online, that's why i'm still playing =D.

 

[sesshomaru]

You know if it were any other game i'd think well of course my future self would be better, but i'd actually challenge that statement with brawl. I dont think its gonna matter what kind of an effort you put in this game, the basics are just that. I also can say with 99% confidence my future self would not "kick my ***" i.e. its comin down to that last stock not a 2 or 3 stock.

The only reason im not 100% sure of that is because maybe, MAYBE god willing we could get a tech. A tech like lcancelling or dd. That would be great lol.

Also, i can't post vids due to the lack of a camera. Just go watch a darkfox approach with fair, punish with dair utilt, and all the other reasons i made this thread. Then IF he wins you can pretend thats sess, if he loses it wasnt me despite what the gamertag says lol.

 

[NekoBoy085]

I know good and well I will not put this game down any time soon and I've imputed several hours of gaming per day. My main fox is still my boy and still is devastatingly quick which is what I love about the space monster. Maybe others feel it growing stale but still many who can't get enough. Maybe brawl just isn't for you, not saying that's a bad thing, just a fact.

 

[showmeyagoose]

you really must play ****ty players if you are cocky enough to think youre unbeatable.
this is why i hate fox players, you arent a god, fox gets pwned by king ddd hard.

 

[lethminite]

you really must play ****ty players if you are cocky enough to think youre unbeatable.
this is why i hate fox players, you arent a god, fox gets pwned by king ddd hard.

thats not what he's saying at all.
he's saying that unlike in melee, you are unable to get so good that you are unbeatable.


he's saying that being skilled contributes less to success in brawl then it did in melee.


i believe that one person already said that he'd loose to any joeshmoe that picks zelda, but could beat anyone that didn't counter pick him.

 

[sesshomaru]

Thank you leth. Thats exactly right, im obviously no god player at this game and personally with its lack of depth so far i don't think anyone will be. I really dont see another ken holding title of best smasher for years much less a few months. btw wtf at "i hate fox players" comment? Thats a pretty big statement to make on the fox boards, publically, where alot of fox players can just see it.

neko - You may be right, its a hard habit to kick though lol. I may just go back to melee 100% here soon. If i got rid of them both i'd just be left with FP shooters.....thousands and thousands of FPS.... -_-.

 

[UltraKyu]

Nonsense...

You can allways improve your mindgames, you can allways adapt better to an opponents character and playstyle and there are lots of AT's which can be mastered (if you need a challenge, master Illusion-cancelling by pressing "b" exactly where you want it so that you know in which of the 3 possible frames you cancel it)

Also, the mechanics with attacks getting weaker if you use them and "reload" if you use other attacks can be important on a high level of competetive playing.

And, since other characters have other AT's you can allways learn to play another character if you have a bad MU with Fox against a certain character or have problems with Fox on some stages etc.

cya

 

[DJT88]

Illusion canceling is not that hard after learning it in melee, if you think sitting there for hours perfecting illusion canceling is fun then be my guest. For me it's just not the same as 0->death combos, I don't want to learn another character just to win, I just want to get better and faster with fox. In melee improving was not just about winning, it was also about gaining better control over your character, in brawl I just don't feel like I'm getting better control over my character. In melee I was the limiting factor to my character, I could always get faster, and more precise with my character (I'm still learning a lot in melee). In brawl it feels as though my character is the limiting factor, and that's why counter picks are so much more effective, no matter how hard I try I can't get faster with any character, I can only get better by improving my mindgames and learning specific tricks for certain match ups, and stages

 

[UltraKyu]

Okay, Mindgames are more important than in SSBM, but I don't think thats negative, because you have to be creative, think fast and learn how your opponent reacts on different moves from you etc.

There are lots of options for mindgames with fox and I'm sure you haven't mastered them to perfection:
- Dash-Dancing
- Dash-cancelling (with Shield or U-Smash)
- Jab-Cancelling
- b-reversal-tricks while dashing or jumping out of a dash
- Illusion-cancelling
- Fox-trotting
- Utilization of your Shield
- etc.

Atm I can't think of a bad MU for my Fox, because I can allways win being unpredictable (that doesn't mean I allways win, but it means that if I loose I don't say: I had a bad MU, I say: you could've done a lot better with mindgames and knowing your opponents options)

Maybe your character seemed faster when you mastered SHFFLing etc. but thats not all there is to learn.

cya

 

[sesshomaru]

illusion cancelling, and most of the other ATs you listed, are useless. If your DDing against an opponent in this game then your fightin someone terrible. Utilizing the sheild is the only worthwhile cause on your list...and check its very easy to bring up my sheild and drop smash after a block. You kind of left out the RAR which is the only true AT in this game so far, i don't think applying B moves is the best for it either.

No offense cause i feel like im bashin your post alot but in the sense where you say you can always improve mindgames, not really. You can learn from mistakes like, i shouldnt use illusion cancelling ever lol, but "mindgames" is just another loose term for good. People are just better than others, you could learn to outsmart azen after many years of playing him but then what about ken? He wont make the same mistakes. Your character and tech skill is what pushed you farther in melee, or not. Now you just have to hope your good and learn the matchups cause counterpicks are the new techs.

 

[sesshomaru]

Hate to double post but the PS3 only lets me type so much for 1 box. I really want to elaborate more on my DDing comment and etc. DDing in this game is terrible and acknowledging it as something to actually use to get better is crazy. If you dd during a match and win i promise it wasnt because of dd, The range is as small as just standing there BUT if you just stand there you wont trip lol. Things like dd and illusion cancelling, they arent match controllers. They will never be the deciding factor of a match like wavedash and old dd were.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Ya, there will be a point where you master all the techniques with a character. And with fox there are only a few and they're all relatively ez. I person have a firm grasp on all of these techniques, which is why i feel this is getting stale. Nothing fresh at all, every match there are certain things u should and shouldnt do. Once u learn a character which in brawl seems to the be ez pz, THE ONLY THING LEFT IS MINDGAMES. Personally i wasn't the best @ mindgames in Melee and im not the best in Brawl and prolly will never be that insanely good.

Sure i'll try to improve my mind games cus i do need alot of work but my fos techniques will never need improvement unless something new comes out. And to me that's kind of depressing. That's why im constantly working on new characters on top of my mains, they should've at least kept L canceling.