Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Remzi]

Regular DC has a set time and max distance.

EDC does not have a set time or max distance. The only way the opponent can punish you out of it is if you are being predictable.

If MK is in the middle of the stage (lets say FD) and uses EDC, he can appear anywhere on the stage, and can appear at anytime provided it's soon enough not to be called stalling. You CANNOT punish that unless the MK appeared at the same spot, at the same time, every time EDC was used. There are way too many variables to actually punish it outside of random luck.

And calling over a TO doesn't solve the problem. What if during the 3rd match of the set to see who goes onto the top 8 the MK pulls out an EDC during the last 30 seconds or so to avoid being KO'd/taking damage, while he has a % lead over you? Calling over the TO won't do anything, and the MK still gets away with it and likely wins through it. It's simply one of many examples that can occur. The only way to avoid this is to ban DC. And if you are going to ban a move of a character, the character itself needs to be banned.

Rather simple really.

Very good way of putting it.

It's true that it can be used to avoid contact, but not in the same way as IDC. The fact is that most matches aren't monitored. Unless MK is banned, or we ban the move itself (LOL), we'll have to worry about people cheating and abusing this broken tactic.

Also, Avarice, you don't seem to get that people will use it even though it's banned.

 

[_OraNoS_]

Some notes about "Banned" or nearly banned SF characters

That's SF2 Turbo Akuma.

super street fighter 2 turbo hd remix.

Super Turbo(ST or SF2 Turbo) and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix(HDR) are two separate games!

Super Turbo refers to the old arcade version from the 90's, and HDR is a (as of now) console exclusive game for XBLA and PSN. HDR was "rebalanced" for top level play with some tweaks to the characters, and a total rework of Akuma. Akuma for Super Turbo had a minimal 8-2 against every character(and that's playing devil's advocate), a lot of 9-1's and probably a few 10-0 matchups. Akuma from HDR was deemed to be ban-worthy because he is able to perform a guaranteed 50% damage super because of a noted bug. Before this, they had "created" HDR Akuma by taking ST Akuma and nerfing some of his normals, INVINCIBLE crouching kicks, his fireball lockdown problem(that he did, not his opponents), sizable invincible startup on his specials, and purposely added weaknesses (he takes about 10% more damage than every other character, non-invincible normals, more lag after attacks), etc. In order to give him balance (make him a viable character), they gave him a super attack which can only land on grounded characters (not even characters beginning their jumps). However, due to a bug, he can land an air fireball and if you block it low, he can land a free super (50% of your health in damage) unless you block high, but when you do.. he gets a free combo that can score a knockdown and start it over! Now this isn't as bad as ST Akuma, where his hurricane kick special is somewhat invincible and combos into itself, and he has an invincible, lag-free teleport to escape. ST Akuma also cannot be dizzied by other characters (only one with this bonus in the game). HDR Akuma maybe has a 6-4 against Dhalsim, but primarily has 7-3 matchups and above. Provided HDR is patched to alleviate the large blockstun from air fireball and if Capcom adds recovery after throwing one, he should be a viable character once more. I'd guess he would lose his advantage in at least a few matchups, too. For those curious, here's a link to some basic thoughts behind Akuma's initial re-balancing for HDR (link).

ST Akuma Examples:
(Arguably) World's Best Chun Li vs. a "good" Ryu player using Akuma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRcb3SGbLhY

The same player abusing Akuma's strengths vs. a Zangief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx2oevVXrH8
You may notice around the 1:20 mark, the Akuma leaves Zangief in perpetual blockstun for a large amount of time! (Comparable to being hit so fast and often you can't escape your shield in smash)

Same Akuma vs. a Blanka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OQkzX5pSt0
Shows an example of the hurricane kick combo and his lagless, invincible teleport.

Oh, and keep in mind that these were from 3v3 tournaments where the ST Akuma players weren't allowed to have teammates and yet still advanced quite far. Each 3v1 against Akuma let a team have three chances against the same flaws of the single player, only needing to beat him once.

Compared to HDR Akuma:
DSP (Akuma) vs. Justin Wong (Sagat): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztZurroGzoM
Features the fireball -> super

DSP (Akuma/DeeJay) vs. Damdai (Akuma): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUP6OAywFFQ

Deathscythe (Ryu) vs. DSP (Akuma): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRWg9lhHPeI

Another character from Super Turbo that most people fit the gray area of "banned" status is Old Sagat. Basically, Sagat you pick in a special way that doesn't have a super meter, but does a bit more damage with attacks. Japan does a soft-ban on him (selecting him is frowned upon). His lack of super makes him beatable because most super attacks will go right through his tiger shots and pretty much balance out the game by scoring a knockdown and giving the other character a chance to win.

Examples of Old Sagat's "ridiculousness":
John Choi (O.Sagat) vs. Alex Valle (Ryu): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R1bvebFk1w

John Choi (O.Sagat) vs. Nuki (Chun Li) (#3): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNbwXq3zPGI
Choi does win the best of 5 though...

John Choi (O. Sagat) vs. Daigo (Boxer): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_E3n0hZZug
Yeah, Daigo is good.


SFIV Confusion Section:
As a side clarification for Street Fighter IV, Seth, Gouken, and Sagat are NOT BANNED for tournament play, anywhere. Seth/Gouken are console exclusive characters, so you won't see either in a tournament in Japan because they tend to run them at the arcades. Because the arcade version was around before the console version here in the US (in select cities), most arcade characters are much more developed than their console counterparts. Thus, you see mainly arcade characters in US tournaments, even those using PS3's (or 360's). In terms of the "they're banned" perception, a few tournament organizers nearly (or temporarily) had the two banned for tournaments set shortly after the console release because of the worry they could be "gamebreaking" and imbalanced.

Seth, being the main boss of the game, was feared because of his large combos, and high versatility (command throw, teleport, dhalsim arms, projectile). In the multiplayer version, he has the smallest amount of life of any charcter and dizzies the easiest. This allows him to be "cheap" and runaway, yet still be balanced because any error could lead to ONE COMBO that would dizzy him and potentially setup another combo that would KO him.

Gouken was feared to be banworthy because he introduced a new type of fireball (ground to air), and was a secret boss in the arcade version. Remembering how potent ST Akuma's new air fireballs were, some people rushed their decisions. In the multiplayer game, he has a solid amount of health, but lacks a "safe" reversal (get-up option after being knocked down). His main choice is to do a very laggy hurricane kick that takes him skyward and is very easy to abuse, or block. Meaning, should you score a knockdown on him, there is no guarantee he'll be able to start his basic game of keep away before you can beat him. Also, his fireballs have a decent amount of lag afterward, meaning if he misses with one, you probably can combo into a knockdown (his biggest problem).

As a player, you have to be very good to win with either of these two consistently at the top level of play.

Sagat is a default character (and most of the top paragraph was not directed at him because of this). He has a very good basic "game" with two kinds of ground fireballs, an uppercut and a special that's armor breaking (Tiger Knee). He is very good. You will probably never hear him being thought of as a not "Top 3" character. He maybe has one 6-4 matchup (Dhalsim), but primarily 5-5's to 7-3's. Despite being universally considered "good", he is by no means broken because he lacks any wholly unique tactic that cannot be countered, or any characteristic that allows him to avoid some basic gameplay mechanic (like ST Akuma's stun invulnerability). As a whole, American Sagats are thought to be worse than their Japanese counterparts. This was a big reason behind ZERO Sagat players placing top 8 at EVO (no Japanese Sagats came, afaik). Instead, two Japanese Ryu players got top 8, with Daigo winning.

[SFIV Generally Accepted Tier List, decided by overall +/- in matchups]


Side note:
I skipped Gill from SF3:Third Strike, but pretty much he was banned because he could RESURRECT AFTER LOSING if he had super meter, and had exceptionally good normal attacks, fireballs, and speed/recovery from attacks.



What to take from this big post: there are a few noted street fighter characters listed here to compare to Meta Knight. Compare MK to whoever you feel like with my (somewhat limited) knowledge of other banned, or near-banned Street Fighter characters. I do have to admit that Meta Knight is probably closer to SFIV Sagat than any other example given here. If not Sagat, then one of the other two examples from SFIV. Seth could be considered if you think of his relatively "early" deaths, and potentially devastating keepaway game ( for Zangief). Gouken could draw a parallel through his notable flaw. He lacks something useful (Gouken lacks of a safe reversal, MK a projectile). After thinking about this today, I'm probably stuck leaving my vote on the "No Meta Knight Ban" side.


Note: I apologize if any of this was covered since I started typing, I got distracted and let this slip from my mind for a bit I'd love to hear comments on this post, and I might leave something like this up on MLG's Smash section over the weekend, if anybody checks there occasionally. If you need to quote this, try and just clip the relevant sections, as this is a very large post.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Regular DC has a set time and max distance.

EDC does not have a set time or max distance. The only way the opponent can punish you out of it is if you are being predictable.

If MK is in the middle of the stage (lets say FD) and uses EDC, he can appear anywhere on the stage, and can appear at anytime provided it's soon enough not to be called stalling. You CANNOT punish that unless the MK appeared at the same spot, at the same time, every time EDC was used. There are way too many variables to actually punish it outside of random luck.

And calling over a TO doesn't solve the problem. What if during the 3rd match of the set to see who goes onto the top 8 the MK pulls out an EDC during the last 30 seconds or so to avoid being KO'd/taking damage, while he has a % lead over you? Calling over the TO won't do anything, and the MK still gets away with it and likely wins through it. It's simply one of many examples that can occur. The only way to avoid this is to ban DC. And if you are going to ban a move of a character, the character itself needs to be banned.

Rather simple really.

EDC does not have a set time or max distance. Hwoever, it's banned.

The only way the opponent punishes you out of it happens to be the way you keep track of where you are; the camera angle. Go and play with MK's IDC in training mode, and you'll see how the camera angle moves. It's easy to judge where the MK's going to be; he can't be offstage or in the air, so he has to be on the main platform, and you can follow the moving camera angle and punish his ending lag.

MK's IDC stalling is not banned. MK's IDC, period, is banned. This includes the EDC, which is just any extension of the regular DC. If you extend the DC, it's banned, period.

Calling over a TO can definitely help the problem (that doesn't really exist at this moment). The set to see who's going into the top 8 is probably being monitored or watched by SOMEBODY. Pause, call the TO, tell them what happened, and witnesses can back up the information. Saying, "The MK gets away with it just because" is silly.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Regular DC has a set time and max distance.

EDC does not have a set time or max distance. The only way the opponent can punish you out of it is if you are being predictable.

If MK is in the middle of the stage (lets say FD) and uses EDC, he can appear anywhere on the stage, and can appear at anytime provided it's soon enough not to be called stalling. You CANNOT punish that unless the MK appeared at the same spot, at the same time, every time EDC was used. There are way too many variables to actually punish it outside of random luck.

And calling over a TO doesn't solve the problem. What if during the 3rd match of the set to see who goes onto the top 8 the MK pulls out an EDC during the last 30 seconds or so to avoid being KO'd/taking damage, while he has a % lead over you? Calling over the TO won't do anything, and the MK still gets away with it and likely wins through it. It's simply one of many examples that can occur. The only way to avoid this is to ban DC. And if you are going to ban a move of a character, the character itself needs to be banned.

Rather simple really.

Actually, by that mentality nothing is banned at all because its up to the players to report it, so we might as well stop playing the game because if all these what-ifs stacked on top of each other we would have anarchy.

...

*facepalm

Edit: I've got to go. Be back later. Again, stop theory-crafting and provide evidence. All this has been gone over before in the last three threads. The only thing that has changed are the faces of the more vocal pro-banners.

 

[Sosuke]

Also, the player doesn't have to move? Okay, so they stand still in dimensional cape for seconds. It's pretty obvious to see that they're using a banned tech.

The extra one or two taps of C-stick up shouldn't suddenly make the move unpunishable. I can see it as being a retreat when they already have breathing room, but they could always just run backwards and have any frame to react, rather than commit to a punishable move. Again, the only reasonable use for it I see is what M2K did against Dojo; to recover back on the stage. But still, it's banned when you extend the cape, and it was pretty obvious he extended it too.

Ok, lets just say that the player has the definite ability to identify that this tech is being used every time they see it.

You still need proof.
This is very hard to get in most cases, I'm sure we can agree on this. =/



The thing about this move is that time has to be definite on a move like this. If you were to compare it to Snakes tilts, you can actually SEE when Snake delays the second hit. You can't with this. And not to mention that MK can move to a more advantageous position with this tech then just using the DC. It's the little things that matter at high levels of play.

About the camera angles: You can just move back and forth quickly and stop on one side.

I need to look at the frame data for a good explanation, and I need to leave soon. I'll get back to it later tonight and leave you a link to the post in your shout-outs. Suffice it to say, the move can be attacked before Metaknight disappears, and the screen moves with Metaknight so you can see approximately where he is at and punish when he re-appears. If he stays in it for more than the time necessary to reach a safe location, its pretty easy to tell the player is stalling and you can pause it and call over a TO. I've never had to do it though.

I'll just wait for it then.



Edit: ok, wait. Is this banned or what? Why are we talking about it if it is?

 

[JPOBS]

I find it hilarious that a large portion of the problems surronding metaknight stem moreso from him being able to make the best use of a HORRIBLE game mechanic or game design. Its like a race at the special olympics and metaknight is winning

i quote this gem as a little proof

You really can't compare Brawl and Smash 64 in the way that you did. A best character is a best character - agreed. Even when MetaKnight is banned, there will be a new best character. The difference between the games is that Brawl is an overly-defensive game in which characters trade hits, the player in control isn't always the defensive one. In Smash 64 however, just about ever character has some form of a 0-death combo, and with the insane amount of hitstun, shieldstun, and the Z-canceling of any aerial to eliminate all aerial lag, Smash 64 rewards on being offensive. Getting a single hit in on Pikachu isn't hard. It isn't hard getting a hit on MetaKnight either. The difference being that a single hit on Pikachu in Smash 64 can literally mean death for that character, which certainly is not the case in Brawl. A MetaKnight can make any number of mistakes in Brawl and still walk away with a safe win. Isai's quote ("Don't get hit") doesn't hold any weight in Brawl, for in Brawl "It's ok if you get hit."

 

[Fatmanonice]

Im sorry...why is this important ?

Because it adds yet another thing ontop of a long list that makes Metaknight better than everyone else. :/ Seriously, he has close to no ending lag on most of his attacks, most of his attacks have disjointed hitboxes, he has five dependable methods of recovery, he has one of the best side/aerial dodges in the game, most of his attacks have a lot of priority, his tornado is very hard to counter except with a few attacks, he has several attacks that can effectively shield poke, he has the best ledge camping/stalling options in the game, no true character counters, no true stage counters, and now people want to say that it's okay that he can become invisible/invinsible for short periods of time... Wait... what?

 

[RDK]

Still waiting on that tournament evidence from pro-ban.

And King Beef, the last part of my previous post was necessary, because it's true. Even if SBR does ban MK - which is at best a stretch - most TO's will likely keep him unbanned. Nobody who knows anything about competitive fighting games would attend a scrub tournament.

If your point about how people attend for money anyway were true then we'd see better turnout for current scrub tournaments.

 

[RDK]

Because it adds yet another thing ontop of a long list that makes Metaknight better than everyone else. :/ Seriously, he has close to no ending lag on most of his attacks, most of his attacks have disjointed hitboxes, he has five dependable methods of recovery, he has one of the best side/aerial dodges in the game, most of his attacks have a lot of priority, his tornado is very hard to counter except with a few attacks, he has several attacks that can effectively shield poke, he has the best ledge camping/stalling options in the game, no true character counters, no true stage counters, and now people want to say that it's okay that he can become invisible/invinsible for short periods of time... Wait... what?

Show me direct evidence that he breaks one of the ban criteria and then we'll talk. Whining about how good he is accomplishes nothing, except making you look whiny.

 

[AvaricePanda]

So then why do some regions ban grab infintes, such as D3's D-throw infinite, or wall infinites, etc.,?

There's obviously no point in banning them; someone could just do them, and there'd be no proof to say otherwise.

And for the millionth time, any extension of the Dimensional Cape is banned.

 

[:mad:]

RDK, how did you manage to double post on THIS thread?

 

[Clai]

Regular DC has a set time and max distance.

EDC does not have a set time or max distance. The only way the opponent can punish you out of it is if you are being predictable.

If MK is in the middle of the stage (lets say FD) and uses EDC, he can appear anywhere on the stage, and can appear at anytime provided it's soon enough not to be called stalling. You CANNOT punish that unless the MK appeared at the same spot, at the same time, every time EDC was used. There are way too many variables to actually punish it outside of random luck.

And calling over a TO doesn't solve the problem. What if during the 3rd match of the set to see who goes onto the top 8 the MK pulls out an EDC during the last 30 seconds or so to avoid being KO'd/taking damage, while he has a % lead over you? Calling over the TO won't do anything, and the MK still gets away with it and likely wins through it. It's simply one of many examples that can occur. The only way to avoid this is to ban DC. And if you are going to ban a move of a character, the character itself needs to be banned.

Rather simple really.

You're confusing the two.

EDC is something like this: 1---2---3---4
Using numbers to signify ways that he can extend the Cape. (As in 1 going past 2, past 3 to reach 4)

Doing this: 1---3---2 ???
Is blatant stalling. If you're using the Dimensional Cape for any purpose OTHER than going further away from your opponent (or closer, if you're really going to be stupid enough to approach with the Dimensional Cape), you're stalling. Dimensional Cape has a set path, you can only go in one direction, the opponent can figure out that direction and attempt to tech chase. Once you start doing things like "not moving" and "switching directions" you're creating a hopeless situation in which the opponent has no way of mounting any type of resistance against it, something that is in clear violation of the rules that existed beforehand.

@ the pro-ban side, stop being idiots. It's really obvious that if you're in DC for twice as long as the actual move lasts for, and you end up on the same spot as when you started, it's stalling. You serve no other purpose but stalling. You're breaking the rules. You get DQ'd. Stop trying to inch for ways to make this bend the rules that are already in place. It's not working.

 

[RDK]

RDK, how did you manage to double post on THIS thread?

I'm guess I'm just that good.

And BTW, everyone arguing about IDC (including you Fatman, who somehow managed to sneak it into a list of MK's attributes, as if banned moves somehow make him even better), the move falls under the category of excessive stalling, and is punishable in the same way that excessive stalling is punishable.

What exactly is the point of this conversation? Let's get back to waiting for pro-ban to come up with some tournament evidence of Metaknight overcentralizing.

 

[Eddie G]

Still waiting on that tournament evidence from pro-ban.

And King Beef, the last part of my previous post was necessary, because it's true. Even if SBR does ban MK - which is at best a stretch - most TO's will likely keep him unbanned. Nobody who knows anything about competitive fighting games would attend a scrub tournament.

If your point about how people attend for money anyway were true then we'd see better turnout for current scrub tournaments.

I don't care about what the TO's are likely to do if the SBR proceeds with the ban. That is, at best, merely a guess on your part. You can fall back on "the standard of competitive fighting games" when it comes to predicting what people will do all you wish, but in the end all we are saying at this point is pure speculation.

As for your last sentence, um...you underestimate just how much influence the SBR's statements/decisions have on what TO's decide to do, and of the influence money has on people; and before you think of bringing up the "NY area still does what they want" point, I've read it before. They're still not the majority, just a small example of open and active tournament independence. We might see a better turnout after the SBR's decision, we might not. It's silly to base possible future attendance off of current "scrub tournament" attendance when the SBR hasn't even made a statement to be viewed as a guideline yet.

So....yeah...

 

[SOVAman]

So

how about dem redskins????

 

[Fatmanonice]

Show me direct evidence that he breaks one of the ban criteria and then we'll talk. Whining about how good he is accomplishes nothing, except making you look whiny.

*face palms with a brick*

It doesn't and I've said this probably four or five times in the past two days. Under competitive standards, Metaknight is not broken but, in a shallow game like Brawl, he might as well be given how, compared to a majority of fighting games, you have fewer methods to deal with them. In a sense, Metaknight makes a shallow game even more so and, if you were paying attention, my arguement is that keeping him around will greatly shorten the lifespan of this game.

Add in: Also, I was referring to how people were referring to how there are people who are justifying the use of EDC, not IDC. Again, please read the posts within their contexts.

 

[Eddie G]

Lol, I really can't believe that people are actually trying to make the EDC seem legit. It's just like MK's ability to work around the ledge grab limit while still enjoying the benefits of planking. It's just another way to **** with the rules without actually breaking them in an immediately obvious manner.

It's ridiculous how a character even has the ability to work around the rules like that while still reaping the benefits of the same tactic that forced the rules to be instilled.

I felt the need to repost this.

 

[½NIÇK½FBM]

I actually think the EDC is cool. Everytime I see in a match (mostly all friendlies and performed my m2k) it takes me offguard and its really funny to watch the other character react.

EDC isn't really that broken if you ask me.

 

[RDK]

I don't care about what the TO's are likely to do if the SBR proceeds with the ban. That is, at best, merely a guess on your part. You can fall back on "the standard of competitive fighting games" when it comes to predicting what people will do all you wish, but in the end all we are saying at this point is pure speculation.

As for your last sentence, um...you underestimate just how much influence the SBR's statements/decisions have on what TO's decide to do, and of the influence money has on people; and before you think of bringing up the "NY area still does what they want" point, I've read it before. They're still not the majority, just a small example of open and active tournament independence. We might see a better turnout after the SBR's decision, we might not. It's silly to base possible future attendance off of current "scrub tournament" attendance when the SBR hasn't even made a statement to be viewed as a guideline yet.

So....yeah...

TO's will do what they can to make the most amount of people come to their tournaments. Banning MK, especially when he comprises such a large number of tournament results, is bound to piss more than a few people off.

If you honestly believe that everyone who voted for the ban in this thread attends tournaments then you're delusional. I stand by my statement that nobody who actually gives a hoot about real competitive play will attend a scrub tournament where MK is banned.

In reality, you guys are just being whiners. I don't even use Metaknight, and I still think you're being whiners.

 

[RDK]

*face palms with a brick*

It doesn't and I've said this probably four or five times in the past two days. Under competitive standards, Metaknight is not broken but, in a shallow game like Brawl, he might as well be given how, compared to a majority of fighting games, you have fewer methods to deal with them. In a sense, Metaknight makes a shallow game even more so and, if you were paying attention, my arguement is that keeping him around will greatly shorten the lifespan of this game.

We don't ban things to increase the lifespan of the game, just like we don't ban DDD's infinite to make the game "more fun".

Brawl is admittedly a crappy game, but that's not our fault, and he just doesn't warrant a ban under these circumstances. Once you start drawing lines in the sand and banning stuff according to those arbitrary lines, it's going to come back and bite you in the future when circumstances like these arise again.

Like I said, if you guys tried this in any other competitive community you'd be laughed out of town.

 

[Darth Waffles]

especially when he comprises such a large number of tournament results, is bound to piss more than a few people off.

Anybody else pick this up? That's certainly one of the pro-ban arguments as far as I've seen

Also, not banning MK is also bound to piss more than a few people off. Somewhere around 54% of the people, actually =\

 

[Alus]

Metaknight is too good to be banned...

 

[RDK]

Anybody else pick this up? That's certainly one of the pro-ban arguments as far as I've seen

MK is overused. So what? It hasn't come down to "play MK or lose". As soon as he starts doing that, I'm all for a ban.

Also, not banning MK is also bound to piss more than a few people off. Somewhere around 54% of the people, actually =\

Congratulations on not reading the rest of my post.

 

[Eddie G]

TO's will do what they can to make the most amount of people come to their tournaments. Banning MK, especially when he comprises such a large number of tournament results, is bound to piss more than a few people off.

If you honestly believe that everyone who voted for the ban in this thread attends tournaments then you're delusional. I stand by my statement that nobody who actually gives a hoot about real competitive play will attend a scrub tournament where MK is banned.

In reality, you guys are just being whiners. I don't even use Metaknight, and I still think you're being whiners.

Ok? That's nice. It's still all speculation at this point. Whether few or many people get pissed off or not, you still don't mention the possibility of some of those people switching to other mains. We don't know how or if attendance will be affected at all.

I never said everyone here attends tournaments. Don't put words in my e-mouth. Ok, you stand by your statement, that's nice. I also stand by mine: it is, at best, a guess.

Oh lookie here, with a pinch of love and an added insult. l2arguewithclass. Thank you.

 

[Darth Waffles]

If you think everyone who voted against the ban attends tournaments, than you're equally delusional. It's a moot point. The SBR is crippled not by their ability to influence TO's but by the fact that they risk losing the respect of the entire community

@king, that was from my post =P

 

[PikaPika!]

Anybody else pick this up? That's certainly one of the pro-ban arguments as far as I've seen

Also, not banning MK is also bound to piss more than a few people off. Somewhere around 54% of the people, actually =\

Actually it will piss off 1,195 people at this point or 46.12% of the community

 

[momochuu]

The gap is closing. >_> I don't think he's getting banned.

 

[da K.I.D.]

So then why do some regions ban grab infintes, such as D3's D-throw infinite, or wall infinites, etc.,?

There's obviously no point in banning them; someone could just do them, and there'd be no proof to say otherwise.

And for the millionth time, any extension of the Dimensional Cape is banned.

than why wasnt m2k immediately disqualified in the video that Marko X posted not too long ago

 

[Clai]

We don't ban things to increase the lifespan of the game, just like we don't ban DDD's infinite to make the game "more fun".

Brawl is admittedly a crappy game, but that's not our fault, and he just doesn't warrant a ban under these circumstances. Once you start drawing lines in the sand and banning stuff according to those arbitrary lines, it's going to come back and bite you in the future when circumstances like these arise again.

Like I said, if you guys tried this in any other competitive community you'd be laughed out of town.

Hai thar, I feel that I need to bring up something that comes across as a huge dividing issue among the community:

There's a certain character in this game that I need to bring to your attention because he is causing a great rift in our community:

He has an incredible footsies game in an environment that heavily favors stalling and turtling.
He has an invincible-on-startup attack that can stuff many aerial attacks, making approaches from the air impossible.
He has a reliable projectile that continues to apply pressure from afar.
He has many ways to combo into his signature move which could lead to unrecoverable amounts of damage, given his already stated ability to turtle and stall effectively.
He has arguably a slightly bad matchup, but otherwise is filled with even-devastating matchups in his favor.
He wins and places in tournaments on a great level.
He is one of the most overused characters in the game.

Therefore, this character has to be banned, for the sake of improving our community. Thank you for listening.

If you get which character I'm talking about, you get a cookie.

---Point of this post: I'm comfirming RDK's last statement---

 

[Gannonspetmoblin]

I don't think we'll get anywhere 'till praxis and infernoomni have a deathmatch to decide who's right.

Voted yes on banning; i don't play brawl, but the pro ban side had cool vids.

 

[MarKO X]

than why wasnt m2k immediately disqualified in the video that marko posted not too long ago

i just reposted it. espy (puffball) posted the original.

and according to someone, IDC wasn't banned.... i'm tempted to look it up and see.

 

[Tien2500]

So then why do some regions ban grab infintes, such as D3's D-throw infinite, or wall infinites, etc.,?

There's obviously no point in banning them; someone could just do them, and there'd be no proof to say otherwise.

And for the millionth time, any extension of the Dimensional Cape is banned.

Infinites are much easier to determine.

 

[RDK]

If you think everyone who voted against the ban attends tournaments, than you're equally delusional.

Not once did I say that, and you're still missing the point. The vast majority of people who want MK banned are forum scrubs. People who actually go to tournaments and place fairly well with some amount of consistency most likely don't want to see MK banned for obvious reasons. It's anti-competitive, and it's being a whiny sore loser.

It's really that simple. You don't want him banned because "it's best for the community" or any other such nonsense. You want him banned because you can't deal.

It's a moot point. The SBR is crippled not by their ability to influence TO's but by the fact that they risk losing the respect of the entire community

....sooo, you're saying TO's aren't a part of the entire community? Or what are you saying?

Do you even know what you're trying to say?

 

[Clai]

than why wasnt m2k immediately disqualified in the video that Marko X posted not too long ago

Because traveling
l-------l
insead of
l-----l

isn't a blatant attempt to stall? Don't you think if M2K tried to stall out Dojo with the use of this technique, we'd be able to see actual stalling? Not some inch-extension from a move that he was using for a designated purpose?

Really, I think the pro-ban side already gave up on the actual reasons why they think Metaknight should be banned. Now they're just trying to ban him on a technicality that anyone with common sense could already see is not working.

 

[Alus]

I don't think we'll get anywhere 'till praxis and infernoomni have a deathmatch to decide who's right.

Voted yes on banning; i don't play brawl, but the pro ban side had cool vids.

This is why the poll sucks...

Spoiler

Not 100% serious...but this is a silly example.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Infinites are much easier to determine.

How so?

There's someone watching the match. Yes, it's really easy to determine that someone's using D-throw and D-throw in repetition. But it's also easy to tell that someone's using Dimensional Cape longer than normal because they either stayed in it longer, went too far away, or changed directions.

than why wasnt m2k immediately disqualified in the video that Marko X posted not too long ago

Why don't you ask the T.O.?

Tournament rules aren't consistent between tournaments, especially considering that the T.O. who hosted it hosts MK banned tournaments now.

 

[MarKO X]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216278&highlight=whobo

rules show that "MetaKnights cape glitch." is banned, however you wanna interpret that.

get ***** rules. Something fishy is going on........

 

[bobson]

The gap is closing. >_> I don't think he's getting banned.

Pfft, he wasn't getting banned in the first place. The poll would have to take 7 or 8 votes to override the SBR at the least, probably more than that.

Also Metaknight is not a cute loli, get him out of your avatar

 

[da K.I.D.]

OMG GDI you people..

Not once did I say that, and you're still missing the point. The vast majority of people who want MK banned are forum scrubs. People who actually go to tournaments and place fairly well with some amount of consistency most likely don't want to see MK banned for obvious reasons. It's anti-competitive, and it's being a whiny sore loser.

It's really that simple. You don't want him banned because "it's best for the community" or any other such nonsense. You want him banned because you can't deal.

Why are you so insistent on putting words in peoples mouths?

Why do you think you know this?

What makes you so sure everyone that voted A thinks B.

What are you basing this on? It looks to me like just a terribly biased individual that refuses to listen to the opinions of others because you already know it all.


....sooo, you're saying TO's aren't a part of the entire community? Or what are you saying?

Do you even know what you're trying to say?

Because traveling
l-------l
insead of
l-----l

isn't a blatant attempt to stall? Don't you think if M2K tried to stall out Dojo with the use of this technique, we'd be able to see actual stalling? Not some inch-extension from a move that he was using for a designated purpose?

Really, I think the pro-ban side already gave up on the actual reasons why they think Metaknight should be banned. Now they're just trying to ban him on a technicality that anyone with common sense could already see is not working.

Clai. Dude, i was told that ANY extention of the cape is banned. if ANY extention of the cape is banned than it really doesnt matter what the intention is because M2k should have been DQd in that match. But he wasnt because you can get away with it in the heat of a tourney match which people believe will be taken advantage of and used to tip the scales further in mks favor in a broken way

im not even trying to argue one side of the ban or the other, im just trying to get everyone on the same page here

 

[Eddie G]

RDK...scrubs or not, everyone has an equal right and opportunity to vote on the matter. We don't make the final decision, but the point still stands.

I don't care if you haven't outright said it, but stop implying that people need to have some kind of credibility or experience in order to vote. If it came down to that, then we should just leave the decision up to the professional MK mains and the people who have defeated them in at least one occasion. Now tell me...if that were the case, who the **** would you be on the matter? That's right, just like the rest of the general public.

I think it's time to get off the high horse already.

Also Mr. "show me the cold hard facts/numbers", newsflash: the poll may not meet the requirements set in order to pass a ban, but it sure as hell shows the community's standing at this point. As one with a "facts matter most" mindset, I'm sure you understand that the solid facts override the reasons as to why the facts have come to be; in this case...the current poll.

If you're going to nitpick this, at least make it good. All I've been seeing from you are quick dismissals and attacks to credibility. Mix it up some.