Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[GunmasterLombardi]

Those 3 MK mains have blocked the path for the others to have a chance to win. Those others are high level players as well.. and even the mid level players got ***** because of MK most likely again. Ally is too good because Snake vs MK is most likely even and he just pulled through. But that does not warrant a ban at all, many players lose to Sagat or Fox/Sheik or whatever. When you pick up a top tier it does not make you good with him.. you still have to practice hours on end to become a great player. And for those who do not pick up top tiers.. well they overcome them, and that has been seen many many times. *Raises hand because I did it too =P*

I approve this message.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You know guys, we should just STOP DEBATING NOW.
If you hadn't noticed, pro-ban didn't get a sufficient amount of votes, so he will stay.
I would be more worried about the where the Metagame stands right now anyway.

 

[UberMario]

^^Agreed. (For both of the above messages)

Pros make characters top tier, top tier characters do not make pros.

 

[Reizilla]

MK vs. Wario is according to wario, even. Fiction is just less skilled than those MKs, and since he got 4th, that means that everybody below him is less skilled than him. sooo, m2k/ally/haze/ > dojo/tyrant -> fiction -> everybody below that. These MK playeers are skilled, people aren't losing to the character, they're losing to people and they need to stop whining and get better at the game/match up.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Brawl still isn't a normal fighting game and I see no reason to compare it to one as such.

 

[Divinokage]

Wait, who's trolling?
The argument has never been "MK is unbeatable".

So far all I've seen from pro-ban is MK is ****** mid-level players. Though it probably does.. I think in every game a Top Tier will always overcome the mid-level play in any game because the mid-level players do not know how to overcome the matchup / mental barrier needed to succeed. I can attest to that because back when I was a scrub how the hell do you fight Fox/Sheik/Marth/Falco with Ganon??? I had to get beaten down at 10 tournaments + hours on end to practice before I realized what you need to do to succeed. I had to learn the spacing, L-Cancel in shields, what moves out prioritizes what move.. and then when I got everything down, I was able to learn my own style and develop unique techniques that only I can do. To be a champion, you have to think to yourself I can always win, you have to be unrelenting in ANY situation, never give up even though you are stocks behind. Which is why exists the mid level players and high level players.. it's always going to be like that. I don't think MK actually ***** the mid level players, it's because there will ALWAYS be mid level players complaining of how broken one character is. How can elites exists without beginners and vice versa? Hm?

Edit: If you are not willing to put the time and effort to win a smash competition then you don't deserve to win, simple as that. Stop complaining that there are no easy roads.

 

[SothE700k]

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Oh so it's cool with you that MK players are playing with a permanent handicap. Cool

 

[Falconv1.0]

Brawl still isn't a normal fighting game and I see no reason to compare it to one as such.

It's just like any fighter where it's one on one, the main difference is how combos/dying works, arguments in terms of characters dominating the metagame still stand. You cant just use the blanket statement "it's not a normal fighter" and expect someone to give a ****.

 

[etecoon]

best post in this topic

btw it's obvious that he won't be banned why is this not locked lol

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's just like any fighter where it's one on one, the main difference is how combos/dying works, arguments in terms of characters dominating the metagame still stand. You cant just use the blanket statement "it's not a normal fighter" and expect someone to give a ****.

Name me one other fighting game with such a diverse metagame? Where the way the game works induces that a character bad against a lot of the best characters can do stunningly well against other top chars? Where there are chaingrabs that are finite? Where your survival is based not only on how well you block but what you do after a potentially killing blow lands? Where you don't die if you go past a certain amount of damage (you could potentially go up to 999% with a few chars, like Falco, Fox, DDD, etc.)? Where there are, innately, so many factors that need to be banned from the base up such as items and broken stages? It really is the case that you can pretty much compare SSBB to Mario Kart about as well as you can to Street Fighter. Both are equally stupid comparisons.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Ya *****z can't comprhend that **** what the anti-ban side is trying to prove.

 

[Reizilla]

let's just always ignore my completely logical posts



edit:
That doesn't' make the concept of matchup ratios any different. And what garbage tier character CPs a top tier? That's all just over estimation by people that don't want to admit that their character sucks. Yes, Brawl is different, but not as different as to be immune to comparison.

 

[JUDGE]

Brawl still isn't a normal fighting game and I see no reason to compare it to one as such.

why do you feel like that???
just the way how you die is different...

 

[Gamegenie222]

let's just always ignore my completely logical posts

I'm not ignoring them.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Wow just...

Wow. Yeah you just ignored everything I said and said a whole lot of **** that I cant even fathom how I'll respond to without getting infracted.

OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE INFINITES. OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE MUCH GREATER DOMINANCE. BRAWL IS NOT DIVERSE, TOP TIERS STILL RULE. IT'S STILL ONE VS ONE AND SKILL BASED WITH DIFFERENT CHARACTERS, STOP BEING ****ING IGNORANT.

Good God dude, the main difference, like I said, is that you die differently, and there are different stages, which does not mean how balance and **** works out is some kind of foreign alien. So because we don't have life bars and walls somehow character balance should be treated differently? Are you ****ing nuts?

 

[K@0S]

That made my day

Anyway MK won't get banned. Probably never.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

why do you feel like that???
just the way how you die is different...

Name me one other fighting game with such a diverse metagame? Where the way the game works induces that a character bad against a lot of the best characters can do stunningly well against other top chars? Where there are chaingrabs that are finite? Where your survival is based not only on how well you block but what you do after a potentially killing blow lands? Where you don't die if you go past a certain amount of damage (you could potentially go up to 999% with a few chars, like Falco, Fox, DDD, etc.)? Where there are, innately, so many factors that need to be banned from the base up such as items and broken stages? It really is the case that you can pretty much compare SSBB to Mario Kart about as well as you can to Street Fighter. Both are equally stupid comparisons.

10explanations

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wow just...

Wow. Yeah you just ignored everything I said and said a whole lot of **** that I cant even fathom how I'll respond to without getting infracted.

OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE INFINITES. OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE MUCH GREATER DOMINANCE. BRAWL IS NOT DIVERSE, TOP TIERS STILL RULE. IT'S STILL ONE VS ONE AND SKILL BASED WITH DIFFERENT CHARACTERS, STOP BEING ****ING IGNORANT.

Good God dude, the main difference, like I said, is that you die differently, and there are different stages, which does not mean how balance and **** works out is some kind of foreign alien. So because we don't have life bars and walls somehow character balance should be treated differently? Are you ****ing nuts?

It's definitely far more than that. And brawl is diverse; look for a major SF3 tournament where a mid-tier wins; hell look at a major SF3 tournament where someone who isn't at the top top-8s.

And read my explanation again. SF with SSBB is still an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

 

[Reizilla]

I am pro-ban. For Budget Player Cadet. Ban him from this discussion. He's mentally incapable.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I thought the whole reason you wanted MK banned was because he wins a whole lot. Top tiers still dominate, get your head out of the clouds.

 

[AvaricePanda]

It's definitely far more than that. And brawl is diverse; look for a major SF3 tournament where a mid-tier wins; hell look at a major SF3 tournament where someone who isn't at the top top-8s.

And read my explanation again. SF with SSBB is still an absolutely ridiculous comparison.

Look for a major Brawl tournament where a mid-tier wins.

Seriously.

Where people compare Brawl to other fighters, as I've said before, isn't so much that, "There are more broken characters than MK in other games and they aren't banned." It's more of, "There are characters like MK in other games that have no disadvantageous match-ups and make more characters unviable than MK does, yet they still have healthy competitive scenes and metagames, so saying that Brawl can't because of MK isn't true."

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I am pro-ban. For Budget Player Cadet. Ban him from this discussion. He's mentally incapable.

Okay, if you say so. I think my point has been said, TBH.

EDIT: Sigged.

 

[Zolios]

I love how all the points the Pro-ban side deter from the fact that Metaknights are consistently beaten in tournaments using basic tactics.

 

[NessBrawler]

I love how all the points the Pro-ban side deter from the fact that Metaknights are consistently beaten in tournaments using basic tactics.

I find it funny how he has no character who has an edge on him.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I love how all the points the Pro-ban side deter from the fact that Metaknights are consistently beaten in tournaments using basic tactics.

BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS RANGE AND SPEED AND HOW HE'S SO EASY TO USE OMG.

We cant all be Ally you know. And we cant all EASILY see when EDC/IDC is used, despite the fact that everytime I've seen it in my life I was able to call it out on the ****ing spot.

Learn your frame data fools.

@Nessbrawler:Whoop de ****, you cant pick a character with an edge on him, because obviously cp'ing=GIVE ME A CLEAR SUPER GAY ADVANTAGE MIRITE?

He's still almost always just a 6-4 match up if not even closer, not even close to too good. Just because no one counters him doesn't make him too good, barely anyone has an advantage on Snake, so we just keep him just because of like one uneven match up, seriously? And don't bring up bad stages, those are easily avoidable.

>_<

 

[Kamikaze*]

I can't believe the same arguements are going on with different ppl. Ridiculous, outrageous...

That's what makes this thread so entertaining to watch. They may be the same arguments but it's funny how some of these are presented.

 

[JUDGE]

Wow just...

Wow. Yeah you just ignored everything I said and said a whole lot of **** that I cant even fathom how I'll respond to without getting infracted.

OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE INFINITES. OTHER FIGHTERS HAVE MUCH GREATER DOMINANCE. BRAWL IS NOT DIVERSE, TOP TIERS STILL RULE. IT'S STILL ONE VS ONE AND SKILL BASED WITH DIFFERENT CHARACTERS, STOP BEING ****ING IGNORANT.

Good God dude, the main difference, like I said, is that you die differently, and there are different stages, which does not mean how balance and **** works out is some kind of foreign alien. So because we don't have life bars and walls somehow character balance should be treated differently? Are you ****ing nuts?

*cry*....i think.....i love you falcon^^ x'DD
that#S EXACTLY WHAT I THINK^^

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

He's still almost always just a 6-4 match up if not even closer, not even close to too good. Just because no one counters him doesn't make him too good, barely anyone has an advantage on Snake, so we just keep him just because of like one uneven match up, seriously? And don't bring up bad stages, those are easily avoidable.

>_<

So again, you think it's cool that Meta Knight players start with a handicap 100% of the time

 

[Divinokage]

So again, you think it's cool that Meta Knight players start with a handicap 100% of the time

MK has even matchups, people may not know it yet. Just like Fox right now =P

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

MK has even matchups, people may not know it yet. Just like Fox right now =P

MK has no truly even match-ups. He has a few that are close to that though (ICs, Wario, Snake, ZSS).

Also, I can't help but notice the SBR members are still voting twice!

 

[Clai]

Are you trying to provide theory to say that getting out of that situation with a hurtbox is a better option than getting ouf of that situation without a hurtbox?

When up-air, down-air, neutral-air and the invincibility frame(s) on Shuttle Loop all have shorter start-up time than the Dimensional Cape? Oh, and hurtboxes? When is your opponent caring about hurtboxes when he/she is getting counter-attacked by a character with a sword that has laser-like properties? If your opponent gets hit by one of these counter-attacks, depending on where the opponent is when he/she gets hit, the situation could actually shift to a great advantage for Metaknight (especially when it has to deal with off-stage business). So, a situation where Metaknight can counter-attack and potentially create a hugely beneficial situation for himself is most likely going to be better than resetting to a neutral position.

Are you generally saying that being able to go from one side of a given stage to the other without a hurtbox is not going to make MK better?

The question is not, "when is it likely that Metaknight is going to use a technique like this to benefit him?" The question is, "when is it likely that Metaknight is going to use a technique to benefit him more than the options he already has?" Since this is going to be used, more or less, to escape certain perilous situations, an aspect of combat that Metaknight's quick aerials and gigantic amounts of priority can already handle for him, then I'm generally saying that this technique will only make Metaknight marginally better, if at all.

For the reasons listed above, I also believe that this is not going to have any significant effect on Metaknight's matchups, either.

 

[JUDGE]

MK has no truly even match-ups. He has a few that are close to that though (ICs, Wario, Snake, ZSS).

Also, I can't help but notice the SBR members are still voting twice!

hahahaha so that you just have to hit one upsmash to kill him???

ups wrong quote^^

 

[AvaricePanda]

Do you know, in depth, all of those match-ups enough to say that none of them are even?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Do you know, in depth, all of those match-ups enough to say that none of them are even?

The "no one ever truly knows anything!" argument is getting a little old and wasn't very good to begin with, sorry.

 

[Divinokage]

Do you know, in depth, all of those match-ups enough to say that none of them are even?

Exactly, just saying that MK has no even matchup or has even matchup is a little stupid without a little bit of explanation. However, I can't do it because I have not played the game competitive enough at the high level. I can only elaborate on melee >_<. Cmon high level players explain! lol.

Edit: Paris stop being close-minded and answer the question.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

MK vs Ice Climbers and Snake are debatable for being an even matchup.

 

[kr3wman]

Do you know, in depth, all of those match-ups enough to say that none of them are even?

Don't have to.

Just look at his hitboxes/frame data. It completely stomps the **** out of most characters in brawl and even those that people say are 'close to even'.

The only character I can see gain up on Meta Knight is Snake and that's because his projectile game/Huge hitboxes/Weight make up for his other flaws.

 

[Strong Badam]

Look for a major Brawl tournament where a mid-tier wins.

Seriously.

That shouldn't be surprising at all. Brawl has terrible character balance (It's not a very good game), so what's the ****ing problem?

 

[tocador]

The "no one ever truly knows anything!" argument is getting a little old and wasn't very good to begin with, sorry.

Nah, it really serves the purpose it was meant to. You cant know everything, you just cant, and by saying that you cant say that "MK has no even mu/disadvantaged ones", when maybe people are playing it wrong.

And you can always use the AllyxM2K example, where the "better" character beats the "worse", twice now.

But you can use this argument the other way around, saying that maybe the MU's will turn WORSE than we think, and MK will just be akuma 2.0