Fox's Wallshine Infinite Broken?

[TobiasXK]

Shine has multiple DIable frames, during which you can Smash DI repeatedly. If you DI towards Fox, you can push him away from the wall unless he's doing it absolutely perfectly

 

[Tristan_win]

Really,

Have you tested this?

 

[Sideem Slingh]

I want to see a video before I believe. And plus, it won't be that important, seeing how it'll be banned from tournaments and anyone who'd use the infinite shine is obviously asking to have a wiimote lodged in their eye socket. Still, I hope it's true; I don't like broken mechanics like that.

 

[TobiasXK]

At first, I thought that this would escape the wallshine under any circumstances, but under further testing I think the reason it works is because of an idle 1 or 2 frames if the Fox isn't shining with the perfect rhythm.

However, there may be a different way to Smash DI such that you'll escape. I'll test it more.

 

[=ArtH=]

I want to see a video before I believe. And plus, it won't be that important, seeing how it'll be banned from tournaments and anyone who'd use the infinite shine is obviously asking to have a wiimote lodged in their eye socket. Still, I hope it's true; I don't like broken mechanics like that.

It wasn't banned in Melee.

 

[Dark Sonic]

You can't smash DI in the exact same direction twice in a row.

The timing for a smash DI is exactly 1/60th of a second.
Fox's shine has about 4 frames of hitlag (unless that changed from melee).

It is completely unreasonable to ask any human to have not only the reaction time to input the smash DI, but to have the finger dexterity and precision to input multiple smash DIs in alternating diagonal directions within 1/15 of a second. I have a feeling you have no idea how hard Smash DI really is. People can barely get one as it is.

The best you can reasonably hope for is that they mess up the timing and you can buffer a roll (hold L and c-stick to roll on the first frame possible).

It will probably be banned in tournaments.

 

[SuperLink9]

I saw some videos of Wallshine, and there HAS to be a way to escape it. I can't believe the attack rate would be so in sync with the recovery rate, so that it can work so much.

And if not it'll most likely be banned, so it shouldn't be a huge problem. Any player with any honor or decency wouldn't resort to something like that.

 

[brawl1994]

if some1 does in tourny, they are disqualified, problem solved

 

[Dark Sonic]

Any player with any honor or decency wouldn't resort to something like that.

Honor and decency don't matter when there's money on the line. It will probably just get banned.

 

[SuperLink9]

Money or not, using that in a tournament will get you instant shame from the whole community. Same goes for Falco's blaster.

 

[/~Dogma~\]

if its broken, stages with walls will be banned

 

[Dark Sonic]

Money or not, using that in a tournament will get you instant shame from the whole community. Same goes for Falco's blaster.

That really doesn't matter. There will still be someone that does it if it's allowed. Sure people won't like him, but he'll do it anyway if there's no real consequence.

 

[comboking]

it should not be banned because it might be prety hard to get some one against the wall

 

[=ArtH=]

It wasn't banned in Melee.

Quoted for people who apparently never played Melee.

 

[SuperLink9]

I can understand if it's hard to pull off, what I don't understand is that, under the occasion it happens, it's not banned? It's the lowest of the low.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Quoted for people who apparently never played Melee.

Wobbling was banned. This, and the other on the wall infinites (like Pit's side B) will probably be banned too if it's a problem. However, in the spirit of competative play, we will allow these things for a while and only ban them later if they are in fact broken tactics.

 

[Thinkaman]

With the exception of stalling, tactics cannot be banned. It is logistically impossible, or at the very least extremely impractical.

 

[Dark Sonic]

With the exception of stalling, tactics cannot be banned. It is logistically impossible, or at the very least extremely impractical.

Once again, Wobbling was banned. Tactics can be banned if they cause a major problem in the tournament scene, and they will if they cause a problem. However we can't know if something will be problematic until it is tested.

 

[Shellshock821]

I have to state again like some of the others, it was possible in Melee and it wasn't banned then. What makes you so sure it will be in Brawl? I know it sounds silly, or easier said then done type of thing, but really all you have to do is stay away from the walls. Generally if you look back at Melee tourneys most of the legal stages didn't have walls to help Fox players with this. In the event they did (Pokemon Stadium rock terrain comes to mind) then people were just smart enough not to let themselves get trapped in the little corner where you could get shine infinited. I suggest if it isn't banned (which I personally don't think it will be) then just do the same and be cautious.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

don't forget it was even easier in Melee because you should just waveshine them towards the wall, then begin the infinite. it's harder this time around

unless I'm mistaken and something comes up that makes it practical.

 

[Thinkaman]

Once again, Wobbling was banned. Tactics can be banned if they cause a major problem in the tournament scene, and they will if they cause a problem. However we can't know if something will be problematic until it is tested.

The wobbling "ban" was always somewhat of a joke as far as I could tell. It was used so rarely by so few people that it was practically a non-issue at all. We might not exactly be the IC capital of the world, but I can't recall a single midwest tourney where wobbling was banned...

How exactly does one seriously define a wobbling ban? What if they only "wobble" once to link into a general throw combo? Twice? Where do you draw the line between wobbling and the million other IC grab combos? What specific action, on what frame? Who is going to be watching and measuring this? Since we can't have a judge for every match, how do we handle accusations?

Stalling can be dealt with, and it alone is unique in this way; matches have enough time to allow a judge to be called, show up, and have a 5 second trial to pass judgment on the accused staller.

Nothing in the game is "low". There is no "high" or "low" that the game knows, besides the distance of the characters off the stage. There is only hitting your opponent and not, getting KO'd and surviving, winning and losing. If you want to declare something "cheap" and not use it, feel free. As your opponent, I welcome any limitation you would like to give yourself or advantage you would like to give me.

 

[DRaGZ]

The spirit of competitiveness isn't to make things honorable, it's to make things fair. Thus, I don't feel they will make infinite wallshines banned, only that they will ban stages with walls.

Similarly, to fix Falco's infinite laser dealie, just ban levels with walls and walk-off edges. It's that simple. They were probably going to do that anyway.

As for the casuals that are so worried about it, you're playing casually, so it's not a big deal. If it bothers you so much, knock the controller out of your opponent's hand. I do it all the time, and so do my opponents. It's hilarious.

 

[Pyr0]

don't forget it was even easier in Melee because you should just waveshine them towards the wall, then begin the infinite. it's harder this time around

unless I'm mistaken and something comes up that makes it practical.

Well, sorta.

In melee you could start one kinda easy. But you had to have fast fingers.

In brawl, is a little harder to start, but its incredibly easy to keep going (press B constantly)

 

[Phail3d]

Perhaps this game just is about getting your opponent against a wall?

 

[xelad1]

i really don't see how this would be banned, drill shining, and waveshining in place were just as easy after a little practice, and they were more broken in their effectiveness....

Also why does sonic wave keep bringing up wobbling... it was never universally banned from competitive play, I'm sorry to inform you of this but you are just plaing wrong. In some tournaments (like OC3) it was, in others it was not. There are tons of recent tournaments in which Chudat wobbles his opponents. The only reason you don't see it much is because 1. Chudat is good enough to win without wobbling, 2. Wobbles hasn't attended that many recent tournaments, 3. Its not a guaranteed kill if you get a grab, you have to know when to do it, and 4. there really are only like 3 (maybe 4) good ICs in the whole nation and only Chudat goes to tournaments the most consistently. People whine and ***** about wobbling but ultimately it came down to tournament directors decisions to ban it or not.

Fox's infinite wallshine will/should not be banned since it requires a wall to perform it on, and most of the competitive stages will probably not have walls (look at melee, in recent competitive play you could only infinite shine on pokemon stadium when it changed and I'm pretty sure that's about it... before last year you also had peach's castle and onett but like i said you had to get someone in position to do it). Also SDIing out isn't that hard, you can just rotate your control stick in a half circle the way you want to get out and you'll eventually SDI out, I don't know where people are getting the idea that this is somehow a broken technique.

 

[Qinopio]

I just tested Fox/Pikachu's rapid-A-attack "infinites" against a level 9 computer Lucario set to "run" on training mode, and he escaped both at 26%. I tested the wallshine and he escaped at 5-25%. I'm pretty sure that my timing was good, so I think these are not going to be true infinites.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Well, if they're not true infinites, then never mind..

 

[shadydentist]

Wobbling was banned.

No it was not. Some tournaments did ban wobbling, but typically it was left unbanned. The general spirit is to allow the player as much freedom as possible. Without waveshining, the wall infinite is much harder to do, so i fail to see how it would be banned.

 

[A New Challenger]

Infinites aren't banned in fighters... but games where infinites see heavy competitive play in the metagame are a joke in the community. Ask any SF3 or VF player how much they respect MvC2 players. It'll be good for a laugh.

If you guys want the game to be taken as seriously as Melee was and no more so, go for it.

 

[Thinkaman]

So Mr. New Challenger, what is it you propose then? People just not use infinites? Again, if my opponent wants to limit themselves, they should feel free.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Money or not, using that in a tournament will get you instant shame from the whole community. Same goes for Falco's blaster.

...have you ever played in any sort of large scale tournament? No one ever cares in the end.

The abuse of "broken" techniques is indirectly the fault of the tournament organizers, not the competitors who are allowed to use them unrestrictedly. Players displaying how this could break a tournament in a real setting are ultimately doing a service to the community's future as opposed to making an attack to that same community. Just relinquish your inner scrub already and realize that people are free to exercise whatever is available to them to get the win. Sounds lame? Can't stoop that low? Well, that's one reason why you're not up there with those players.

 

[LeuMasT]

:/ Tournament organizers will decide the rules. I can't see any of this getting out of control to be honest, there's just as much circumstance, preparation, and repetition that has to take place for the infinite to fall into play. I don't think it will be banned unless rounds with space animals all come down to walled onslaughts.

On top of this, aside from created stages, Shadow Moses is the only stage I can think of where walls will be a huge issue. The thing with that is, you can knock them down if you're really worried about your opponent screwing you over with that combo.