Game and Watch Matchup Export: Marth

[derkapalooza]

No, it's a bad MU, def -2, looool. Fair is literally the only move I have problems with in this MU, his bair is ****ing punishable as ****.

What is, Up B OoS and SDI

i dont remember you punishing my b-air at all really out of the 10+ games we played last week tho?

And gimping is like the one thing we have going against Marth. I think we are quite good at it. Fair owns offstage.

http://youtu.be/7u8cwAA7d1o skip to 04:48

f-air *****. and dont underestimate chef! :D

 

[ScareMl]

as long as we have f-air and use it correctly, there's little gnw can do to hurt us.

 

[Zano]

I didn't every time, but I SDI'd out of it quite easily and DS a few times, I was just lazy most of em.

 

[derkapalooza]

as long as we have f-air and use it correctly, there's little gnw can do to hurt us.

cant really agree with that. the MU is in marth favor, but its not impossible.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

In that video what I found to be more interesting was the lag the bacon caused on Marth's fair.

 

[-LzR-]

I found it more interesting how most fairs where SH instead of FH.
Overall I don't think fair is the thing that gives us trouble, we have counters to that. What gives me hard time is uair. It covers a huge amount of space above Marth and it makes upB, one of our best moves not so useful.

 

[derkapalooza]

Yea, recovering from a low position vs marth is a real nail biter. If you mess up, u-air will punish you good. I seem to have more trouble dealing with dancing blade, it can rack up quick and easy damage. If I know I can't get away from it, I'm at least going try to shield it and try to grab him out of it to throw off his momentum and get a little control in the match. I think you can grab him after the 3rd or 4th hit? That or punish him with a f-smash. I know it more by the feel in game. how does everyone else deal with it?

 

[-LzR-]

If he does the 3rd or 4th hit of dancing blade on your shield, it's a guaranteed fsmash.

 

[SFA Smiley]

If he does the 3rd or 4th hit of dancing blade on your shield, it's a guaranteed fsmash.

3rd hit too?

cool.

 

[-LzR-]

Not 100% sure about the third though, someone confirm this please.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

This sounds -2, but is it easy or hard?

And stages for this MU?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Hard.

imo

eagharjydtrsesdr

 

[-LzR-]

I think this MU isn't that bad. Not a hard -2, but still a -2. I think the thing here is that the MU is harder to play for G&W than for Marth here and you need to play a little different than usually as Marth doesn't care about bull****.

 

[Damittom]

I think its a hard -1 or easy -2 at the worst.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

This MU is hella hard, but it's actually winnable. The key is spacing. Marth will zone the **** out of you if you let him. You have to be able to quickly transition from well out of range to right in his face, as that is really the only way to play it. G&W effectively zones a lot of mid and low tiers, and so a lot of players have this playstyle of keeping people right at arm's length the whole time. Marth gives G&W this same treatment, and if the G&W player tries to play it the same way as the MUs where G&W does the zoning instead of getting zoned, they will lose. You have to play a hit and run, dodge and weave kind of game. Bair and nair are invaluable, as well as fair, upb, and dtilt. You should also grab a lot, as Marth players are really just looking for you to do something on their shield so they can upb. A lot of players have it in their head to challenge Marth's fair with our own. Most of the time this ends badly. Let Marth jump around and try to fair you, then go in when he's trying to land, as he really doesn't have that many safe anti-air landing options.
This MU can be really ****ty, but it can also be very very winnable. It's all dependent on both the Marth and the G&W. -1 or -2

 

[Zano]

def a -2, marth has too many advantages in this MU for it to merely be -1, but it's not nearly as bad as ICs are for you, so it's still winnable. Although, at the highest level of gameplay, I can't see GnW pulling off the win tbh.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

And what are stages we should go to and cower away from?

 

[-LzR-]

Stages have little impact in this MU from my experience. Obviously ban FD as we can't really do anything out there. We are both great with platforms too. I would probably CP Marth to Frigate or Halberd or Delfino. None of them are especially strong in the MU, but offer advantages Marth can't really abuse, like the right side not having a ledge, early upwards KOs and sharking and and ****.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I kept Delfino off because that is Marth's best stage. What about strikes, and what about Brinstar? I know Marth does very well on Battlefield, how is that stage?

 

[-LzR-]

Delfino Marths best stage? To me it's like one of his worst. What does he gain from the stage? It's hard for me to keep gaining stage when it's constantly changing. The platforms layouts don't really give Marth much to do either and Marth isn't any more dangerous in water than half the cast is. Also he doesn't have strong throws so he can Bthrow ppl out of the walkoffs like many characters do. I just don't see why Marth would be good there, not to talk about best...

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I can't find the thread, but I remember it being a 10/10 and battlefield being a 9/10. But I found their CP/Ban guide and Delfino was not listed as a ban.

 

[-LzR-]

Battlefield is pretty much always said to be Marths best stage. I would ban it in this MU though as it's also awesome for us.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The juggling factor is hard to resist.

Marth boards don't say to CP battlefield.

Not sure on striking with stages like PS1, CS, Lylat, and Yoshi's in there. Iirc CS is a good stage for Marth.

 

[Zano]

delphino isn't our best stage, wtf.

neutrals all day son.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Hmm. I'll have to find the thread someday.. But what other stages should we avoid?

 

[-LzR-]

FD, FD and FD. There is no worse stage for this MU and I don't think any other stage affects us too negatively. And we will ban FD anyways and we only have 1 ban.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I always have at least 2, sometimes 3 if I can. Preference to FD can make banning it unappealing. And if they ban FD, we need something to fall back on.

And also stage strikes.

 

[Zano]

why the **** would we ban FD? Free grab releases all day

 

[-LzR-]

Perhaps if they know you have a pocket IC or something, but doesn't apply to this discussion. Marth gets so many grabs on FD and we lose all our options.

 

[Zano]

well, gnw mains do eventually become ic mains, so maybe.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Either way, stage strikes?

 

[overgamer]

well, gnw mains do eventually become ic mains, so maybe.

We're not all like Vinnie.

 

[Zano]

and that's why none of you place

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

We're not all like Vinnie.

I thought the same thing, and then I realised that IC's work in a very similar way to GnW. It's hard to explain, but wait a while and it'll happen. I main GnW and R.O.B. but I now also use IC's and Wolf.

 

[Damittom]

and that's why none of you place

Whens the last time you placed?
































http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=320425&highlight=zano

-2 eh?

 

[Zano]

Way to bring up something from months ago before I even knew this MU. Ask what happened after I spent only an hour being taught this MU.

 

[Damittom]

Umm three months ago was pretty recent in my opinion. Plus if this matchup is as easy as you say it is shouldnt you have been able to win by using just f-air?, Isn't space with f-air Marth's go to when he doesn't know the match-up??. If its such an easy matchup that you learned it in an hour did you really need to learn anything??? Do I see contradictions???? =O.

Or maybe

I have no idea why I suck against gnw

 

[Zano]

You're ******** if that's how you think. 3 months doesn't really mean anything when just a few weeks ago I spent an entire week housing with someone and learning all kinds of things. The MU is easy IF you know it, clearly that's how anything works. I just had to know what punishes what and what I should look out for, once I knew that, the MU became muuuuuch easier instead of me falling for things I shouldn't. If I mastered the MU, it would be even easier.

 

[-LzR-]

Zano being bad or good in the MU doesn't shape the reality in any way though. There exists better players. I am able to beat Marths with G&W because it's one of my most played MUs.

 

[Damittom]

Nah thats not the problem its the fact that Zano comes in here and continiously attempts to troll us telling us our character sucks, well in the grad scheme of things Marth sucks too and loses to the same characters. I don't mind players coming to our boards that have constructive statements and are/or respected players such as Esam and Dabuz. Its the fact that Zano is a random and acts like he knows everything about our character. Sure, this is a bad match-up for us but it is certainly not our worse, second worse, or even close to that.

This is a -1 in my opinion if the plays defensive and focuses more on punishing Marth and spacing moves correctly rather than trying to gimmick our way to victory.

There is no clear advantage that we have in this match-up, no move that is perfect against Marth, no technique that can easily shut him down. However, if we bait and punish Marth correctly we can and will win. Marth is one of the easiest characters to punish and is one of the best punishers in the game.

However, the simple fact of the mater is in order to win you must out play the Marth, which is why it is a -1.