Ganondorf: Patch 1.1.3 Changes

[Ray_Kalm]

An update is coming up in two days, and we can expect a balance patch most likely.

What are you hoping most to change? Will we finally get that jab we wanted?

Z1GMA

Changes thus far:

D-Smash 2nd hit angle 130 -> 50! Facing restriction set to 4 (not sure what this means)

Nair Completely remade! Hitboxes all totally different! Bottom line is, second hit is now stronger rather than first.

Dair Hitbox moved up 2 units

Neutral Special 1 Super Armor extended from frames 11-63 -> 11-66

Turnaround Neutral Special 1 Super Armor added from frames 11-58

Turnaround Neutral Special 2 Super Armor added from frames 11-54

Side Special 1/2 (ground/aerial) Some sort of grab parameter increased?

Up Special 1 Grab shocks damage 1.0 -> 1.2 Throw damage 7.0 -> 9.0, KBG 82 -> 90

N-air: Landing lag reduced, from 18 -> 17.
F-air: Landing lag reduced, from 23 -> 22.
B-air: Landing lag reduced, from 20 -> 19.
D-air: Landing lag reduced, from 28 -> 26
U-air: Landing lag reduced, from 20 -> 19.

(Credits to @Thinkaman and other dataminers).

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

A kill throw, Dark Dive hitting at Melee or near Melee strength, slightly better wizkick and faster jab.

 

[adom4]

An actual grab for starters.

Spoiler

Dark fists to be the default instead of dark dive is the dream though

 

[Vermanubis]

I'd like wizkick to not slow down upon impact. I'd also like dash attack to kill earlier. Ike's is way safer and larger, and it kills significantly earlier. I see no reason why we can't kill below 150 with DA (honestly one of the most frustrating things about Ganon, imo -- even more than the lack of grab).

Anyway, to itemize the list, here're the things I think are fair to give Ganon without arbitrarily removing every inherent weakness he has:

-Bigger hitbox below his leg on NAir (dunno if that'd be possible just from an aesthetic point of view): small characters cramping us from the immediate front is a really big problem.
-Bigger vertical hitbox on the foot of DSmash
-Wizkick shouldn't slow down on impact
-DA should kill at least <a little> earlier
-FThrow should kill below 200%... right next to the edge.
-More shieldstun on FTilt (his best way to catch rolls, but is punishable in most cases on even non-PS shield)

Just stupid things that don't really affect his design, but are just annoying oversights.

But, if I'm to be realistic and thematically consistent with his changes thus far:

1% buff to upthrow
Sweetspot UTilt kills 0.5% earlier
Give Warlock punch a sweetspot

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

I'd also like dash attack to kill earlier. Ike's is way safer and larger, and it kills significantly earlier. I see no reason why we can't kill below 150 with DA.

It'd be nice if it killed around 130 consistently for sure, but more importantly I think it needs more than just 2 frames of invincibility so we could actually plow through normals and projectiles.

 

[verbatim]

Realistically, I'm hoping for damage buffs/kb scaling to this throws, but anything that's positive would be nice.

 

[Z1GMA]

Make all Ganon's moves hit at frame 1
Nah...

I don't think we'll get anything.
Though it'd be nice with a faster jab, better grab, and less lag after Dthrow.

Look what happened to Ike - why can't Ganon get SHAC Dair, back, Mr Sakurai??

 

[Didier337]

I agrees with Vermanubis
To add, I want super armor on the beginning of Dark drive and have a greater BKB.Give Wizard's Foot transcending properties so it can punish projectile users. F-throw's angle should be 22 just like his F-tilt. Less ending lag on D-throw for better follow ups.U-throw to be a kill throw. Make the jab faster or give it super armor,just make it a reliable "get off me" tool. Give B-throw darkness properties for better hitstun.

 

[Theosmeo]

Put darkness on dthrow for x1.5 hitstun, reading DI is extremely fun for me

 

[Darkshadovv]

-Melee run speed and Brawl air speed.
-Bowser's midair jump.
-Dark Dive killing at 120%.
-Project M Wizkick, excluding midair jump regain.
-Project M Flame Choke, and no longer causes helpless.
-10% frame 5, IASA 25 jab.
-Melee lunge distance on forward smash.
-Angling on forward tilt.
-Forward and down tilt and down smash intangible on foot.
-Up tilt and neutral air sourspots strengthened to match sweetspots.
-Melee frame and hitbox data on forward and back airs.
-No more t-rex grabby hands.
-Forward and back throws killing at 135% near ledge.
-Up throw killing at 150%.
-12% damage on back and up throws.
-More vertical angle on down throw.

 

[MGK]

I just really want intangibility on his boot / leg on his dTilt and fTilt and maybe even Nair. I feel this will help him out in a though areas without making Ganondorf OP.

Reasons I want this:

1. Hate it when Bowser / DK does a pivot grab and they grab your toes and you teleport to them.
2. All the big characters have disjoint with a weapon or some form of intangibility.
3. If you clank with Sonics side B, you both have the same amount of stun. (This alone ruins the MU for us I feel)
4. Will advance his spacing game without giving him more range.

If no intangibility, make fTilt have the same amount of disjoint as dTilt.

Lastly, fThrow should kill at the ledge at 140% with no DI. This can create fear towards your opponent if they DI wrong, they die. (DI in and dThrow to Fair will kill or DI away and fThrow kills at 130%)

 

[Gold_TSG]

Faster jab
Stronger KB on up B grab
Slight lag reductions on a bunch of moves
MAKE BTHROW A SOLID 10 DAMAGE HIT SO HE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE GROWTH! HE CAN'T EVEN FISH FOR GRABS LIKE NESS SO THIS ISN'T EVEN UNREASONABLE!
Faster dtilt so he has an option on everyone
Nerf Sheik/Rosa/Pika
Reliable connection between dsmash hits

 

[HoSmash4]

I hope ganon gets SH autocancel dair.

 

[adom4]

I hope ganon gets SH autocancel dair.

As much as i'd love that footstool shenanigans will probably make it kinda broken.

 

[HoSmash4]

As much as i'd love that footstool shenanigans will probably make it kinda broken.

Hey, anything to make Ganon really good is enough for me but never thought of footstools haha

 

[Muddyk]

Melee Ganon's Jab and wizard kick.
Can ganon please get a bigger grab range Nintendo that's literally one of the only things i'd really want.
dair to cancel maybe 3 frames faster so i can convert early stomps into combos.
A kill throw would be nice as well considering his garb grab range.
maybe a fix for his nair hitbox so it hits a slight bit lower like samus's got.

Anything else would be purely aesthetic but i'd welcome anything for the King Of All Evil.

 

[Z1GMA]

A Hyrule Warriors Costume wouldn't hurt.

 

[Swoops]

Since most everybody seems to agree on a few changes, I want to offer a couple new ideas.

- Ground+Aerial Wizard's Foot keep the same cooldown, possibly more, and instead receive 9f start up with super armor occurring around 4/5f. Beats projectiles, possibly a hitbox buff.
- Flame Choke (both versions) starts up in 12f.
-Give FAir a large landing hitbox with darkness effect, similar to Falco's FAir.

The idea with these would be to keep Ganondorf's high-risk playstyle intact, but give him more option coverage when he takes those risks.

 

[Z1GMA]

We won't be getting anything, though, so just be happy with the DLC, and the high possibility of Top Tier Nerfs.

Our last buff was massive, after all.
There are times when Nair is actually kinda cheap. YES - Ganon does in fact have a move that can be somewhat cheap now.
Many times have I jumped out with a reverse FF Nair to stagespike ppl with the late sourspot hit, only to see them die in the horizontal blastzone instead from Ganon's sourspot butt at like 110%.

 

[HeavyLobster]

My modest wish list of QOL buffs:
Dark Dive to come out 2 frames faster, and do 2% more
Jab to have 5-10 frames less lag
Dair's landing lag to be reduced by 2 frames
More KB growth on Fthrow

 

[adom4]

We won't be getting anything, though, so just be happy with the DLC, and the high possibility of Top Tier Nerfs.

Our last buff was massive, after all.
There are times when Nair is actually kinda cheap. YES - Ganon does in fact have a move that can be somewhat cheap now.
Many times have I jumped out with a reverse FF Nair to stagespike ppl with the late sourspot hit, only to see them die in the horizontal blastzone instead from Ganon's sourspot butt at like 110%.

lol i killed a Sheik with Nair at like 80% from the middle of T&C with Nair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNtDVVS7H8

 

[Z1GMA]

^ Fthrow beeing a Kill Throw would be insane. They'd be forced to DI in, or at least not out, thus making Dthrow Setups a lot deadlier.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Faster jab and grab.

OR

Disjointed hitbox on jab reaching higher vertically that could negate projectiles and act as more of an antiair and a range buff on grab and dash grab.

 

[adom4]

Here are the changes datamined so far:

Spoiler

• D-Smash
  • 2nd hit angle 130 -> 50!
  • Facing restriction set to 4 (not sure what this means)
• Nair
  • Completely remade! Hitboxes all totally different!
  • Bottom line is, second hit is now stronger rather than first.
• Dair
  • Hitbox moved up 2 units
• Neutral Special 1
  • Super Armor extended from frames 11-63 -> 11-66
• Turnaround Neutral Special 1
  • Super Armor added from frames 11-58
• Turnaround Neutral Special 2
  • Super Armor added from frames 11-54
• Side Special 1/2 (ground/aerial)
  • Some sort of grab parameter increased?
• Up Special 1
  • Grab shocks damage 1.0 -> 1.2
  • Throw damage 7.0 -> 9.0, KBG 82 -> 90

Dunno what the Dair, Nair & choke changes mean, it's gonna be interesting that's for sure.

 

[Daeyrat]

Dsmash's change is serious.

 

[Twoyears]

Was stomp's hitbox nerfed? Please say it ain't so.

 

[Top Boss]

wait..... the new patch is out now?

 

[adom4]

wait..... the new patch is out now?

It's getting datamined.

 

[Top Boss]

MY BOY FOX BETTER STAY INTACT

 

[Swoops]

Omg, please tell me UpB kills now.

Side B might've got a grab hitbox buff???

Ffffffff....must have patch, must test.

 

[adom4]

Omg, please tell me UpB kills now.

Side B might've got a grab hitbox buff???

Ffffffff....must have patch, must test.

Dark dive now does a bit more knockback & areound 4% more, Nair is probably still the same (i think they just got mixed up), D-smash probably sends forward now, Dair's hitbox got moves up or something & choke got... something.
Also, REVERSE WARLOCK PUNCH ARMOR HYPE!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Increased superarmor on warlock punch can work with us positively so many ways.

I'd like to see the dark dive and flame choke changes, and as Adom4 said, nair is probably the same.

 

[adom4]

So according to @jmanup85 & Thinkaman Nair DID get changed again.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Reverse warlock punch armor is hilarious, but I doubt it means anything balance-wise. I'm really curious about what the redesigned nair means and what the change to choke is.

Also, that down-smash angle...

 

[Theosmeo]

Is the difference between reverse warlock punch 1 and 2 grounded vs aerial? then we could jump off duck hunt trees and throw punches

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Is the difference between reverse warlock punch 1 and 2 grounded vs aerial? then we could jump off duck hunt trees and throw punches

I would assume that the numbers are a referral to custom specials.

 

[Theosmeo]

Oh ok, still happy reverse got buffed, now we can catch spacies when they phantasm through us

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Im real confused about Dsmash...does this mean that the second hit sends them in the direction that Ganon is facing?

 

[adom4]

Im real confused about Dsmash...does this mean that the second hit sends them in the direction that Ganon is facing?

Pretty much

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Probably the opposite, is my guess.