Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[DLA]

I definitely haven't quit Ganon. I just haven't been playing a lot of Brawl. We don't really do Brawl locals any more, most of us play P:M now. I do go to regionals though; in fact, I'm going to one in Michigan in roughly two weeks.

As far as my own Ganonry goes--my secondaries have largely surpassed my Ganon in terms of tournament viability, but I'm still perfectly comfortable with bringing him out in matchups that are decent for him. And if I'm doing a $MM, more often than not it's going to be with Ganon. So don't give up on me yet!

 

[Bloodynite]

As far as my own Ganonry goes--my secondaries have largely surpassed my Ganon in terms of tournament viability, but I'm still perfectly comfortable with bringing him out in matchups that are decent for him. And if I'm doing a $MM, more often than not it's going to be with Ganon. So don't give up on me yet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

you silly man

 

[Heartstring]

after hibernating for a month. i command the ganon boards to live once more!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I love Ganon's fsmash <3

 

[-LzR-]

I'm curious about Nair. It's seems all around decent, but I can never really find a situation where it would be optimal to use. Most of the time a dair, bair or uair will be better so nair is almost obsolete from my game. It doesn't even seem to be very rewarding on hit.

 

[Heartstring]

nair seems to be the happy medium between the 3. I often find myself having a hard time using it too. But it seems to be pretty good for pressuring someone on a platform

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rising nair has better immediate frontal coverage than uair and can be used as a mix-up option when landing.

 

[DLA]

Nair is our fastest OoS option, tied with our grab at 7 frames. Well I guess grab is faster since I'm assuming it takes a few frames to start the jump. But yeah it's our fastest non-grab OoS option. It even comes out faster than Jab, which is frame 8.

The reason I mention this is because lately I've been finding short hop Nair to be quite a useful OoS tool, especially considering how few viable OoS options Ganon has. It feels weird to use Nair OoS, especially considering that the useful hitbox for using OoS (the one that comes out frame 7) is quite weak, and not where you'd expect to find it on Ganon's body. It's kinda below his bottom leg, and it's weak but not weak enough to get punished, since it hits at a low angle. If you're confused right now, test it out in training... the first hotbox comes out quite a bit before the first "whoosh" sound of the Nair. You may feel a bit insecure using this hitbox since it isn't very strong, but it gets the job done. Learn to use this hitbox (make sure you do SHORT HOP Nair--though full hop Nair is also viable OoS if your opponent is diagonal from you) and you'll have a decent OoS tool on your hands (or in this case, your legs).

Also, Nair is useful for platform pressure (mostly A. when the first hit will knock them off the platform, or B. you're not confident in punishing your opponent's platform landing with Uair, and you need a longer-lasting hitbox). It's also a great followup to thunderstorm at mid-low %'s, as it will often link directly into a DJ Fair.

Runoff Nair also has its uses in edgeguarding, mostly against characters whose recoveries are greatly hindered if they're interrupted by any hitbox.... i.e., spacies (nair often beats phantasm), Diddy (up B OR side B), Ganon/Falcon, Link/TL, and surely a few others.

Finally, what Gheb said. Rising Nair is good for spacing against characters who have short, non- or slightly- disjointed hitboxes, such as Wario, Lucario, Mario, Luigi, etc.

 

[-LzR-]

All right good stuff. And I supposed Nair is faster than Jab as Ganon has like 6 frames jumpsquat and shielddrop is 7 frames.
But isn't dash attack or uair almost always better than nair or does this have to do with the low knockback of nair to keep the opponent nearby enough to keep them in bad position and to keep your best moves fresh?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I wonder if the weak knockback of nair OoS as DLA described it works as a set-up for a side-B. Could be a powerful OoS counter.

 

[-LzR-]

Hey that sounds pretty cool. I'll hit the lab today and check it out.

 

[Bloodynite]

I don't bother looking here for a month....

and it got life a bit for a week

WHY DO I ALWAYS MISS IT

 

[Rizen]

I've been thinking about Nair. Ganon could use it as an approach like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFf_vfbw7EQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s it eats weak range attacks like turnips, keeps attacking in front and has no extra lag when landing which lets Ganon shield or whatever.

Similarly, Nair could cover some landings when the opponent is in front of Ganon.

 

[Vermanubis]

About 10 posts in two months. Not bad, guys.

 

[Heartstring]

The entire boards has sorta slowed down since it changed over. A shame really.

A random musing, But i've noticed that I can play a fair amount of character, yet when I play, I never flow as well with them as I do with ganon

 

[Vermanubis]

 

[Bloodynite]

 

[Rizen]

 

[Heartstring]

 

[Vermanubis]

Record post streak for the current year!

 

[Rizen]

Record post streak for the current year!

^The POWER of Ganon!

E3's next month (finally)! Do you (the reader) think we'll see Ganon again in the next Zelda's trailer/demos?

 

[Z1GMA]

You dare doubt in Nair? You must die!
As Ganon's only Multihit/Longlasting attack, Nair has a few really good uses.

I haven't touched SSB for over a year. Will do when SSB4 coems out, though.
I'm into TTT2 atm

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ganon's only [...] Longlasting attack

Fsmash!

 

[Heartstring]

You dare doubt in Nair? You must die!
As Ganon's only Multihit/Longlasting attack, Nair has a few really good uses.

I haven't touched SSB for over a year. Will do when SSB4 coems out, though.
I'm into TTT2 atm

I really need to get used to using nair, I just find our other tools to be better. I nair when someones chasing me after hitting, but other than that...
Also, you need to come back. I'm not nearly good enough to be considered best ganon in EU, even though it is beast

 

[Rizen]

Zigma uses Ganon too? I missed you on the Bowser boards, picking him up too late.
Nair's probably better on wifi. I use it to space like Snake does, platform pressure and cover landings. Nair>land and buffer jab etc gets people who underestimate Ganon.

I hate when I just want to play friendlies on AiB freeplay and some jerk gets real competitive. For some reason scrubs say I'm bad when they lose to my Ganon, lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

G~P, you need to come to a german tourney one day so we can make a EU Ganon ranking between GoV, T, G-Man, Dueler X, you and me.

 

[Heartstring]

G~P, you need to come to a german tourney one day so we can make a EU Ganon ranking between GoV, T, G-Man, Dueler X, you and me.

Sure thing, send me the money to attend and i'll be right there. Untill then, I need to eat because I blew all my money on APEX

and I beat dueler when i played him in ganon dittos. GoV challenged me for the 'Best EU ganon' title though. which i need to take him up on

 

[Jebu-95]

Everyone needs to see this.
Ganon part da bess

 

[Heartstring]

saw this but a few hours ago. brilliant video

 

[Rizen]

I ended up watching all of it. It was entertaining; what can I say?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

and I beat dueler when i played him in ganon dittos. GoV challenged me for the 'Best EU ganon' title though. which i need to take him up on

lol dittos

 

[-LzR-]

I beat Dueler in dittos too

 

[Heartstring]

I agree. dittos are odd. But how else do we decide whos the best? If im going into europe im going to play my main XD

 

[Rizen]

Ganon Dittos are weird :/ Bowser and G&W dittos are worse though.

 

[-LzR-]

Ganon dittos are one of the rare cases of a ditto that's actually quite fun.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I profoundly disagree.

I agree. dittos are odd. But how else do we decide whos the best? If im going into europe im going to play my main XD

Records? MM wins? There are definitely better things to go by than dittos.

 

[Rizen]

Ganon dittos are very momentum based. I don't like G&W or Bowser dittos either.

Wolf, Link and Zelda dittos can be fun but not in lag; then they become C stick spam fests. PT dittos are fun. MK dittos can be fun but they're stupid.

 

[-LzR-]

Btw how exactly do you think a Ganons skill can be measured? He sucks in everything so every time you win it's more like your opponent just ****ing up. And when talking about results with pure Ganon then there is a lot of luck involved as the other player might have 5 MKs to play against and the other one might have something that's not actually unwinnable. No who is the better one here?

 

[Rizen]

^Low tiers have very little luck on their side because they get exploited so hard and are unforgiving to play as.
To win with Ganon you do have to be better than the opponent. Ganon is heavily based on reads so IMO the best Ganons are smart and don't miss opportunities. Low tiers are hard to rate because they do suck in tournaments and rarely can be measured by __________ won Apex/Hobo/etc with Ganon. You have to accept entering tournaments with low tiers is a huge disadvantage .

I've seen DLA do crazy stuff with Ganon and really use his potential. That inspired my Ganon to be more bold. I'm a learner. It's possible to win any MU, although extremely hard. Ganon has wins under his belt here and there.

tl;dr
IMO the best Ganon is the hardest to fight with a consistent show of skill.

 

[-LzR-]

But that cannot be done with Ganon because he has so many literally impossible MUs where the only way you can do stuff is if the opponent makes huge mistakes. No other character has comparably bad MUs like that. Even those reads shouldn't work because Ganon cannot really cover many options like most characters.