Gimps to Watch Out For As Ness (and Lucas)

[Yoshiblaze77]

Hello there! Over the last few days, I've been exploring ways to gimp Ness' PK Thunder 2. While it's an okay recovery move, there are so many ways that it can get gimped that you'll need to seriously watch out. Plus, if you don't like Ness (I'm looking at you, InfernoOmni) well, now you know a bit on how to take care of him. This will not include customs.

HOW TO AVOID: Most of these can be safely avoided by trying to keep your double jump and recovering very low (especially with Lucas). Recovering low works even better on some Omega stages, as Double Pk Thunder can be used. Unfortunately, this won't stop couple characters from getting safe gimps, so be creative.
Recovering high or low really depends on MU, and you generally never want to use PKT2 if possible. (Thanks to first 5 repliers for this thought)

And now, here's everything I could find (these all work for Lucas, unless said otherwise):

GENERAL:
Using a spike/meteor smash, using a low knockback semi-spiking move, running into Ness' recovery, and trying to straight up KO Ness can all gimp Ness.

Run-off aerials also work and are probably Ness' biggest threat. Most aerials (including spikes) can fall into this category. Ness mains WATCH OUT (From: Pazx)

Many Characters:
Counter- Countering, while not necessarily a gimp, can stop Ness from recovering and often kills Ness

Character Specific:
:
Cape (Side-B)- Can Cape either before PKT2 to send Ness away or while Ness is flying to reflect him (Recommended Recovery to Avoid: Low (Remember to mixup though))

F.L.U.D.D. (Down-B)- Pushes Ness away
(Recommended Recovery: Low)

Fireball (Neutral-B)- Can Clash with the ball; can gimp regularly (From: Yoshi8984)
(Recommended Recovery: Low)

:
Luigi Cyclone (Down-B)- Gimps regularly; Risky (From: Yoshi8984)
Super Luigi Punch (Up-B)- Sourspot hit can bring simply gimp Ness (From: Uffe)

:
Turnip (Down-B)- Most turnips and Mr. Saturn gimp regularly. Stitch and Bob-omb typically kill or stage spike.

:
Bowser Slam (Side-B)- A Bowsercide takes care of Ness

:
Gravitational Pull (Down-B)- suck up the PK Thunder (Ex:

)

:
Egg Toss (Up-B)- Gimps Ness if hit multiple times; Almost guaranteed SD (From: Yoshi8984)

:
Chomp (Neutral-B)- Chompcide

:
Fire (Up-P)- Windbox on it's trampoline
Oil Panic (Down-B)- Absorbs PK Thunder; VERY risky and sometimes won't work.
Up Air- Windbox (From: Yoshi8984)

:
Gale Boomerang (Side-B)- If bounced off a wall, the windbox can move Ness
Hero's Bow (Neutral-B)- If the arrow hits Ness PK Thunder at the ball, it will get rid of it (NOT on Lucas)

:
Flame Choke (Side-B)- A standard Ganoncide takes care of Ness

:
Guardian Orbitars (Down-B)- If used from above then drops down, the move will move Ness upward. This sometimes hits Ness with a reflected PK Thunder, which helps Ness

:
Reflect (Side-B)- Reflect moves Ness away from his PK Thunder; Risky.

:
Noseferatu (Down-B)- Noseferatucide

/:
Inhale (Neutral-B)- A standard Kirby/DDDcide gimps Ness

:
Stone (Down-B)- MIGHT be able to collide with PKT's ball. Also, can gimp regularly (From: Uffe)

:
Reflector (Down-B)- If timed well, this MIGHT work

:
Hydro Pump (Up-B)- Water will push Ness away, and sometimes cause Ness' PK Thunder to hit him towards the blast zone

:
All Aerials- Gets a special mention for aerials as all of them can mess Ness up, and she can do it better than everyone else. (From: Uffe)

//:
PSI Magnet/Absorbing Vortex (Down-B)- Jumping offstage and using PSI Magnet/Absorbing Vortex can absorb PK Thunder

:
Pocket (Neutral-B)- *scared shiver* Pocket can take PK Thunder, and from a good distance too

:
Doctor Sheet (Side-B)- Can Cape either before PKT2 to send Ness away or while Ness is flying to reflect him

:
Leaf Shield (Down-B)- Can gimp like it usually does, but doesn't work well; VERY risky
Metal Blades (Neutral-B)- Can collide with PKT2 or simply gimp when angled or Z Dropped (From: Diamond Octobot)

Thanks for reading, and happy recovering/gimping! And tell me if I missed anything

 

[yoshi8984]

IMO how high/low you recover depends on the MU. You def do not want to go low vs a Rosa, Ness/Lucas, G&W or Villager (and some others) lol.

We should keep the moves that can send us offstage and what SETS US UP to be gimped in mind as well in this thread.

Moves that have nice disjoints (Shulk's Fair) are a prime example, and then there are moves that need some nice sniping/positioning necessary to set up the gimp (i.e. Ness' Fair/D-Tilt, Lucas PKF, etc.) and moves that just outright hit before Ness can even PKT (Falco's Nair is an example).

Add Mario's Fireballs (if it clashes with the head then RIP), Luigi Cyclone (fairly difficult to do reliably tho), Yoshi's Eggs, Peach's Turnips and G&W Uair.

 

[Pryze]

Yeah, it would definitely be a good idea to make note of the ideal height for Ness to recover from.

 

[Kathuzada]

Ideal height for recovery depends on Match up

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

There are many times when you will want to PKT2 down to the ledge, or past the ledge and onto the stage so you can tech and have better footing to return to the neutral game.

 

[Funen1]

I don't know if there's a truly "ideal" location to recover from against each character. Yes, recovering high may be more important in some matchups, but if you recover from the same spot every time your opponent is gonna adjust to it, no matter who they're playing as. What's more important is varying how you recover to keep them off balance. This doesn't just include using PKT2 from different angles either - it's generally safer not to use PKT2 at all if you can help it, precisely because people can find many ways to gimp you as the OP suggested. Thankfully Ness' intermediate weight and floaty nature let him survive hits and float back to the stage quite easily without having to use his double-jump, let alone PKT2. From there it's up to you (and what you know of your opponent's habits) what you do to protect yourself from getting gimped.

 

[Yoshiblaze77]

Thanks guys for your inputs, and I have updated the main post, so check it out, and .. yeah.

I don't know if there's a truly "ideal" location to recover from against each character. Yes, recovering high may be more important in some matchups, but if you recover from the same spot every time your opponent is gonna adjust to it, no matter who they're playing as. What's more important is varying how you recover to keep them off balance. This doesn't just include using PKT2 from different angles either - it's generally safer not to use PKT2 at all if you can help it, precisely because people can find many ways to gimp you as the OP suggested. Thankfully Ness' intermediate weight and floaty nature let him survive hits and float back to the stage quite easily without having to use his double-jump, let alone PKT2. From there it's up to you (and what you know of your opponent's habits) what you do to protect yourself from getting gimped.

I definitely agree, using PKT2 is risky from most spots, so mixing it up is key.

 

[Pryze]

Ideal height for recovery depends on Match up

I know. I'm talking about under each character's name.

 

[Pazx]

off topic but your font colour is actually horrendous, very difficult to read

also none of these things are really as important as runoff aerials which is the real way of gimping ness

 

[Yoshiblaze77]

off topic but your font colour is actually horrendous, very difficult to read

also none of these things are really as important as runoff aerials which is the real way of gimping ness

Thanks for telling me about the color. I forgot that everyone else sees blue while I see black.
As for aerials, I did mention those

GENERAL:
Using a spike/meteor smash, using a low knockback semi-spiking move, running into Ness' recovery, and trying to straight up KO Ness can all gimp Ness.

The bolded art applies to some runoff aerials. I'll be sure to add runoff aerials to the post. This was more about unique specials, most of which are easy to use.

I know. I'm talking about under each character's name.

Noted. I'll need a little help with that though. I'll add that sooner or later

 

[Pazx]

Thanks for telling me about the color. I forgot that everyone else sees blue while I see black.
As for aerials, I did mention those

The black you've changed to now is actually much worse, it's gone from painful to unbearable and unreadable on both the default (Dark) and Project M themes which I believe are the two most common themes.

 

[Yoshiblaze77]

The black you've changed to now is actually much worse, it's gone from painful to unbearable and unreadable on both the default (Dark) and Project M themes which I believe are the two most common themes.

Oh right XD
I use Tourmaline so black actually looks good

 

[Yoshiblaze77]

:
Cape (Side-B)- Can Cape either before PKT2 to send Ness away or while Ness is flying to reflect him (Recommended Recovery to Avoid: Low)

I'm gonna start add this to all listed options. Help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Metal Blades can do the trick too. Just Z-Dropping one or hitting with a diagonal NeutralB can stop PKT2 in its track. Or just gimp.

 

[Uffe]

Kirby can use dair or down B (Stone) as well. Jigglypuff can literally chase Ness/Lucas, bait an airdodge or PKT and hit them. I've had the misfortune of going against a good Jigglypuff. Actually, it wasn't unfortunate, I enjoyed our matches. But I did loathe being baited and hit afterwards that he suggested I try using my second jump with fair or nair to combat him.

If close enough to the stage, Luigi can purposely use a sourspotted up B (the one that doesn't have kill power) and mess Ness/Lucas up. Dair is also another option for them. It really depends on the situation, though.

 

[Yoshiblaze77]

Updated Post:
- Added the last two replies from Diamond Octobot and Uffe
- Added Recommended Recovery for Mario