Has Smash Bros. lost its Competative Edge?

[Aaryk]

its not like glitches don't exist in melee.
If they're that big of a concern to you, don't play.
Or just avoid them.

 

[sv3]

The gameplay is not the exact same speed due to all of the floatiness and all of that nonsense. Also, so far, Brawl is DEFINITELY not even close to being as deep as Melee. .

I'm guessing you only got into this whole competitive fighting game thing in the last few years.

 

[SaxyPlayah]

Eh, let them be pessimistic. Thats what im doing. I will accept that it wont be competitive, not like i really used competitive techniques so i cant really feel the loss that competitive players have. Im more of a casual/pro. Yeah, i play with no items and only on final destination but i dont really use any competitive techniques besides teching and L-cancelling on occasion. Though id give the game more time, people will fall in love. You dont fall in love at first sight, sorry....got to get some time to work things through.

I personally think brawl will last as long if not longer than melee. Will i still play melee? Heck yeah! I still play SSB64 on an occassional basis. I believe that all three have depth somewhere in them and thats what makes each of them unique. I think just the collaboration of these three games will make the smash series last for the next decade or century.

So yeah, dont get your hopes up, cause they may just crash and youll be depressed for a while. But hey, if some techniques return or even some newer techniques show up, then surprise! I still believe that we need to wait for brawl to come out in the americas before making so many assumptions.

 

[AustiniusRex]

i may not play 6 years with out breaks, but i will always be able to come back to my wii and enjoy this game, i know that and I don't even have it yet.

 

[AtticusFinch]

@Thread Maker

Eh, I don't see how you can say brawl can't be played competetivly, I mean, any game can be played competetivly. And those glitches aren't exactly game-breakers seeing how most turneys ban levels with walls. And as for the snake one, well, try no flying strait into the person's face, I have a feeling they won't be close enough to grab you lol...

 

[Hitzel]

almost every single person i've ever talked to who played melee competitively loves brawl a lot with a few choice exceptions

the people who love it include pc chris and azen among many others, everyone needs to calm down.

Some people refuse to be gullible and will always ask questions. That's just the way they are. It may be annoying to you, but as long as they haven't played the game yet, they're not going to take anyone else's opinion as truth.

 

[WastingPenguins]

@Thread Maker

Eh, I don't see how you can say brawl can't be played competetivly, I mean, any game can be played competetivly.

Tic-Tac-Toe is a game. Try playing that one competitively.

Edit: My point is that a game's depth directly correlates with its competitive viability. Tic-Tac-Toe is a very shallow game with one or two tricks/strategies that can be learned in about two minutes. Not making any assumptions about Brawl but just saying, of course some games are more "competitive" than others.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

I'm guessing you only got into this whole competitive fighting game thing in the last few years.

gg for being able to look at my join date and assume that I began playing in more or less the second 40% of the time Melee has been out when most people began playing competitively. It would take a genius to do that. I actually began playing competitive Melee in June 07, so fix'd would be saying "I'm guessing you only got into this whole competitive fighting game thing in the last year." (Also, if you're wondering, I joined in Nov 06, but I didn't play until June 07.)

Also, I second what WastingPenguins said. A MAJORITY (not all, so shut up and don't mention the people that fall into the minority) of the people that say Brawl will match or be better than Melee don't even play competitively. Quite a good bit of the people I've noticed are happy the game is being dumbed down because they ****ing suck and they want to be able to play at the same technical level as everyone else by having everyone else lower their standards. I've seen at least one in this thread.... let me find it... ah.

Mr. Ocax: Actually, I like the pace of Brawl matches. The Melee fights are TOO fast. It's like I have no idea whats going on and I feel like it is going to give me a seizure.

Yeah, well, a lot of us CAN keep up with what's happening in Melee matches. We don't want to dumb down our playing standards just to accommodate you and your incompetence. Competitive playing is about getting better to beat everyone else. It's not about having everyone stoop down to you so you can play evenly with them.

p.s. WastingPenguins: Tic-Tac-Toe is a game that usually ends in stalemates.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

re-post for emphasis

almost every single person i've ever talked to who played melee competitively loves brawl a lot with a few choice exceptions

the people who love it include pc chris and azen among many others, everyone needs to calm down.

 

[Burb]

I summed up TC's rant with the following:

"BAAAAAWWWWWWW!"

 

[AtticusFinch]

Tic-Tac-Toe is a game. Try playing that one competitively.

Your telling me that there has never been a competitive Tic-Tac-Toe tourney? I believe a google search would beg to differ.

And besides, I don't think advance techs are in tic-tac-toe, that's all mindgames xD

 

[WastingPenguins]

re-post for emphasis

Boy would I like to hear some write-ups from some of those guys, just general thoughts about the game thus far. Would be VERY interesting to me.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Your telling me thaa there has never been a competitive Tic-Tac-Toe tourney? I believe a google search would beg to differ.

And besides, I don't think advance techs are in tic-tac-toe, that's all mindgames xD

lolz, just like rock/paper/scissors. People don't realize it but the mindgames in that one are just crazy!

Besides, you can't wavedash in TTT? I'm a pro X'er and I get my little guys sliding all over that grid.

 

[SaxyPlayah]

Listen to gimpyfish.....everyone should just get a grip on themselves and calm down. Just let brawl be brawl...

 

[sv3]

Some people refuse to be gullible and will always ask questions. That's just the way they are. It may be annoying to you, but as long as they haven't played the game yet, they're not going to take anyone else's opinion as truth.

What are you even talking about anymore? No one is talking about gullibility. This thread (like many others of its nature) complained about things absent from the game, and how it could negatively impact the enjoyment of the game itself. He gave examples of people, some of whom had a hand in developing the Brawl metagame, who enjoy playing the game. This counters the thread's original point, and has much more legitimacy than many of the posters that have topics which try to point out that Brawl will not do as well as Melee. Many of the latter people are 'professionals' (I use that term loosely concerning these people and their understanding of fighting games) who have not even touched the game yet.

As long as you stick to asking questions and not making judgments about the game with little to no evidence/experience, then fine. He's not talking about you. But, I have to wonder why you'd ask questions in the first place if you're not going to give consideration to the answers. It makes the questions pointless.

 

[Senshuu]

I still play SNES fighters. By myself, even.

So yes I will still be playing Brawl in six years. I really can't believe I've had Melee for so long. Doesn't feel like it. Melee could endure, IMO! And I'm not even competitive.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

how about i'm a really competitive player and i think brawl is fantastic

we dont have to write a book everyone whining just gets to me eventually

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

I summed up TC's rant with the following:

"BAAAAAWWWWWWW!"

gb2/v/

10char

 

[sv3]

gg for being able to look at my join date and assume that I began playing in more or less the second 40% of the time Melee has been out when most people began playing competitively. It would take a genius to do that. I actually began playing competitive Melee in June 07, so fix'd would be saying "I'm guessing you only got into this whole competitive fighting game thing in the last year." (Also, if you're wondering, I joined in Nov 06, but I didn't play until June 07.)

Also, I second what WastingPenguins said. A MAJORITY (not all, so shut up and don't mention the people that fall into the minority) of the people that say Brawl will match or be better than Melee don't even play competitively. Quite a good bit of the people I've noticed are happy the game is being dumbed down because they ****ing suck and they want to be able to play at the same technical level as everyone else by having everyone else lower their standards. I've seen at least one in this thread.... let me find it... ah.

I have no idea why you're talking about join dates and such. The statement from you that I quoted, and much of the post it came from, indicated to me that you have never followed a fighting game series before until with Melee. As a result, much of your frustration is understandable because you haven't experienced a transition between two games until now. From the posts of many of these people who claim to play Melee competitively, I can say the same for them.

There are certain legitimate concerns, such as the pacing of the game, but it's pointless to draw any conclusions this early on. There is no real evidence that Brawl will not be popular or fun competitively. What people are going off of now is the word of other 'competitive' players who have yet to really grasp any understanding of how this game could be played competitively (mainly due to the fact that they've never even played this game yet). Obviously, it's best to reserve any judgments about the game until we actually get it, but if we're going to go with the whole let's-believe-what-we-see-and-hear thing then the word of people like gimpyfish and the people he has talked to carries significantly more weight than the word of random mid to low level tourney people on this board who automatically assume that the videos that they are seeing will be the videos that they will see 2 years from now.

 

[Ghost07]

For people who don't realize that it takes time for metagame too develop.
Please Watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

 

[SmashBro99]

If you feel this way, that Brawl should have been Melee 2.0, then stick to playing Melee. (That wasn't meant to be offensive.)

Give it some time.

 

[CCC07]

Have some of you seen early melee tourneys! adv. techs take time. Brawl is fun
and will be played competitively.

 

[2007]

the only thing Melee has better than Brawl are falling speeds and midair dodge physics.
Oh, that and Dr. Mario and Roy.

=2007=

 

[AtticusFinch]

For people who don't realize that it takes time for metagame too develop.
Please Watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

"Yep, we've come a long way babey." <---Guess the reference? lol

Wow, great video. It really shows how long it takes for the competitive scheme to evolve. It's way to incredibly early to make such assumtions. Im sure Brawl will become as competitive as Melee. (In some much needed time)

 

[AthrunZala]

For people who don't realize that it takes time for metagame too develop.
Please Watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

already posted that vid on like the 3 or 5 page lol.

listen i am not saying that the game will suck. i am not saying people wont like it as a competitive game gimpy. what i am saying is to that guy that to me it seems like the game has taken a step backwards where as in street fighter it took the "glitches" and actually embraced them. people who are professionals are going to give the game a chance and play it. so far i have heard people like it (you and the people you have named, though i dont count azen because azen likes all things new. which is why he grew board of melee.) and i have heard that people dont really like it. (people in the midwest, kishprime said most of the people at their tourny didnt like brawl very much.) so like i said i will hold judgement. i just think it is stupid to say to anyone that this game has more depth then melee. to me the removal of l can and wd is a huge loss in that catagory. i plan on attending tournies for brawl about a week after it is out. i am going to give it a shot but will it have the longgevity that melee had is the real question gimpy. you might like it now because its new but we shall see with time. i hope it is a long lasting game.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

I have no idea why you're talking about join dates and such. The statement from you that I quoted, and much of the post it came from, indicated to me that you have never followed a fighting game series before until with Melee. As a result, much of your frustration is understandable because you haven't experienced a transition between two games until now. From the posts of many of these people who claim to play Melee competitively, I can say the same for them.

There are certain legitimate concerns, such as the pacing of the game, but it's pointless to draw any conclusions this early on. There is no real evidence that Brawl will not be popular or fun competitively. What people are going off of now is the word of other 'competitive' players who have yet to really grasp any understanding of how this game could be played competitively (mainly due to the fact that they've never even played this game yet). Obviously, it's best to reserve any judgments about the game until we actually get it, but if we're going to go with the whole let's-believe-what-we-see-and-hear thing then the word of people like gimpyfish and the people he has talked to carries significantly more weight than the word of random mid to low level tourney people on this board who automatically assume that the videos that they are seeing will be the videos that they will see 2 years from now.

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I thought you were insulting me saying that because I joined at a certain time was the reason I'm mad about Brawl.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

almost every single person i've ever talked to who played melee competitively loves brawl a lot with a few choice exceptions

the people who love it include pc chris and azen among many others, everyone needs to calm down.

I'm sure Brawl will be an amazing game, hopefully it will last longer than melee but your points just don't seem relevant.

Just because people who you've talked to like it doesn't mean everyone will. That is just anecdotal evidence, its just not worth much.

Also, as I interpret from HugS, just because you were good at Melee doesn't necessarily mean your going to be pro at Brawl, PCChris, Azen, Gimpy... you all suck Hopefully it'll mean there is a lot to improve

Anyway whatever, I'm still waiting for this meta game to evolve. Good luck on finding techniques homies, hopefully we can get this non-competitive crap out of the forum.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Smash brothers Melee appealed to all. The casually players and the competitive ones. They just cant be brought together. The casual player gets rapped, and the competitive one is left unchallenged.
/QUOTE]

More idiot elitist nonsense.

I'm for the lock >.>

re-post for emphasis

You're my favourite pro, seriously. Please, play with yoshi and i will be named Gympy_fan

The thing is, most of the "idiot" pros (remark, Idiots, no the normal pros) only hate brawl because they won't be laughing at the noobs anymore.

I think i'm kinda happy because the game is more fair for those who can't reach competitive level. Everyone can play it and reach a competitive level, and more people = more fun = less elitism.

If you want to be in a special party of super mega pros, go and play tic tac toe. But smash is for be played by everyone. And the more people who can play it, the funnier when i play competitively.

 

[Spellman]

I can assure you that Brawl indeed has a deep level of skill riding behind it. Chain combo's take skill, and I'm sure a few will be discovered as the game takes time to settle in, but overall, whether you can pull off a huge combo won't be a big deal. Everytime you cross paths with your opponent, you will have to overcome them, so you can't get away with beating the snot out of your opponent while they can't retaliate. This takes a different type of skill (and reflexes), and I'm positive we'll see some professional players rise above whether or not those kind of techniques are discovered.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

Smash brothers Melee appealed to all. The casually players and the competitive ones. They just cant be brought together. The casual player gets rapped, and the competitive one is left unchallenged.
/QUOTE]

More idiot elitist nonsense.

I'm for the lock >.>



You're my favourite pro, seriously. Please, play with yoshi and i will be named Gympy_fan

The thing is, most of the "idiot" pros (remark, Idiots, no the normal pros) only hate brawl because they won't be laughing at the noobs anymore.

I think i'm kinda happy because the game is more fair for those who can't reach competitive level. Everyone can play it and reach a competitive level, and more people = more fun = less elitism.

If you want to be in a special party of super mega pros, go and play tic tac toe. But smash is for be played by everyone. And the more people who can play it, the funnier when i play competitively.

Tic-Tac-Toe isn't meant to be played by everyone?

Also, as I said earlier, it aggravates me when people say that they're HAPPY Brawl is being dumbed down. It's lowering our standards so we can cater to the people that quite bluntly, suck *** at the game.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Tic-Tac-Toe isn't meant to be played by everyone?

Also, as I said earlier, it aggravates me when people say that they're HAPPY Brawl is being dumbed down. It's lowering our standards so we can cater to the people that quite bluntly, suck *** at the game.

And that isn't good? I'm happy that one friends of mine can FINALLY catch me up. (I play like sort of sandbagging with him, because if i win, he calls me a lucky-man wtf...)

Really, i can't see what's bad with that.

 

[OrlanduEX]

And that isn't good? I'm happy that one friends of mine can FINALLY catch me up. (I play like sort of sandbagging with him, because if i win, he calls me a lucky-man wtf...)

Really, i can't see what's bad with that.

Yea, but what if the rest of us like playing people at OUR skill level? Should we get the shaft because your friend can't play the game?

This argument is pointless anyway as Brawl is shaping up to be just as competitive as Melee if not more.

One week or so is WAY to early to say "boo hoo, Brawl is just for casual play"

All the Melee pros are jumping on Brawl and ripping it apart, and you can expect that to increase come March 9th (hopefully).

Besides, if Naruto: Clash of Ninja and DBZ: Budokai 3 can be played competitively, so can Brawl, dammit!

 

[NES n00b]

The point is we don't want Naruto like depth to the game. lol

I am not worried about Brawl. I am worried about people like Yoshi Fan being not only clueless, but really judgemental. And wtf at Spanish pros and Gimpy pro stuff? Pro is thrown way too much around.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Yea, but what if the rest of us like playing people at OUR skill level? Should we get the shaft because your friend can't play the game?

This argument is pointless anyway as Brawl is shaping up to be just as competitive as Melee if not more.

One week or so is WAY to early to say "boo hoo, Brawl is just for casual play"

All the Melee pros are jumping on Brawl and ripping it apart, and you can expect that to increase come March 9th (hopefully).

Besides, if Naruto: Clash of Ninja and DBZ: Budokai 3 can be played competitively, so can Brawl, dammit!

But hey, that's a good point anyway: I mean, the actual competitive players are like... 5%? 10% of all players. So with brawl, that is going to get up to 50% :D OR MORE, MORE COMPETITION, MORE CHALLENGUE, MORE FUN.

The more, the merrier (or better, wtf).

the problem I see there is this:

You want to continue being in the 5% elitism world, instead of the 50% GIANT scene world. Yeah, in the 50% you can get beat by anyone and you won't be a god anymore... but.. wait... Weren't you looking for a challengue? Or for a easy win?

I think like before: the more, the better. (And i'm entirely not casual)

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

And that isn't good? I'm happy that one friends of mine can FINALLY catch me up. (I play like sort of sandbagging with him, because if i win, he calls me a lucky-man wtf...)

Really, i can't see what's bad with that.

Competitive playing is about being better than everyone else. We don't want people that completely are worthless and incompetent at this game to be able to play at a similar technical level as us without putting forth effort. Of course, we won't have to put forth effort either, but we are DEDICATED enough to put forth that time to practice our technical skill.

Once again, we don't want to play a dumbed down game just to play with people that suck *** and are worthless at this game.

 

[Little Red Corvette]

The thing is, nine years later my friends still play 64 because Melee is too-fast and button-mash heavy, as opposed to what they view as the more mind-game oriented play of the original. In fact, 6 years later, they aren't playing Melee.

 

[fishsticks]

My friends and I still switch around between the two.

Fox = god in SSB64, so we have fun with some FFA Fox matches.

 

[super.smash.camel]

seriously, im sick of these threads >_>

do you think that everyone had discovered all of melee's advanced techniques in two weeks...

sheesh, enough of these topics about brawl sucking, i cant find it right now but theres a brilliant video of a melee tournament back in 2002, they wernt using all of our advanced techniques, and look at melee now...


Sheesh

 

[Zodiac]

He may be right, this is what made everyone love melee so much as a competitive game, do you guys think that if brawl came out first it would have made it into mlg? Its way early to be making that speculation but at this point given what has been taken from highly technical game we used to play. I don’t believe it would have been.

There are two options for brawl's competitive community,

One is that brawl's competitive community will refuse to accept this new way of play and die down. at least the one we know of now. And all the Pro smashers today will hate brawl and stop playing it. The noobs that think their top tier because the advanced techniques are out of brawl will rise and make the new "noob" competitive scene. At least for the first few years, yes they to will eventually become brawl pro's. But they will do it in a way that quite frankly disgraces the technical prowess this game is played with. Even in brawl, we won’t lose our technical skill, we'll just distribute it among other arising and already known ways to play brawl.

The second is for us pro smashers that love melee for its technical prowess and the sheer skill it takes to play the game at a high level, to accept brawl as the new smash game to play at tournaments, but, not to simply roll over and let the melee way of smash die. Oh no, those of us that have spent years (For me its two years) honing our skills speed and ridiculously precise timing in most cases, will not lose what we've gained in melee, we may not l-cancel, we may not wave dash or use the many features that have been removed. But, we are the standard for smash, be it 64, melee or brawl. And I for one am not going to lower my standards for technical prowess in smash, I'm only going to raise them and continue on the path to one day being the champion.

But now the question comes to you, the competitive smashers. We need not let the melee way of technical prowess die for the sake of brawl's release. We need not let a new "less skilled" tournament scene rise to a generation of Casual pros. Listen well.

We can make this new brawl tournament scene, or we can break it, as can you "casual pros"

And to the casual pro's that are so excited that brawl has had the primary advanced techniques taken out, I wish more than anything that the brawl tournament scene will exceed melee's by a wide and outstanding margin. So I wish you the best of luck, but it will take practice and time to become as good at brawl as the pro's. Time and practice, we all need it for when brawl comes out. We need to make the new brawl tournament scene not squabble over it. Because that will ,mark my words, destroy the competitive smash scene all together, completely.

Smash always has been and always will be a game for everyone.

-Zodiac Ja ne

 

[Ichida]

Glitches are part of videogames every bit as much as developer-intended gameplay mechanics are, because in the end they are gameplay mechanics. Taking them out is TAKING AWAY FROM THE GAME. PERIOD. If Sakurai purposely took away from Smash's depth and didn't rebuild what he destroyed, Brawl will NOT be popular or interesting to play a few years from now, just as the OP is saying.

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!! Brawl isn't melee 2.0! Brawl is it's own game.

WHY is this fact so bloody hard for people to comprehend?!