HOMING ATTACK: A serious boxobservation.

[TheAwesomefroggy]

*Stops*...

 

[JMan8891]

Im like... in tears. Froggy, where do you live dude?

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

uh... why?

 

[Life]

Think he's trying to see if you get to play this game a lot or not? Or if you're within reasonable driving distance of him, or something.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Somewhat what I thought. I'll be able to drive in two years, but anyways, Spokane. Don't think there's any talent in Washington unless you count Gimpyfish from Melee.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Praxis lives in spokane, but he doesnt really play like that anymore.

 

[JMan8891]

Yea, I wanted to see if you had a player pool around.

Creativity/mind games will ALWAYS have a place, to be sure. However you pretty much want to play as efficient as possible. You want gaurentees, or as close to them as possible. You want clear stage and positioning advantages. You want to play as fast and link as fast as possible. This is universal and absolute.

Mind games are gimmicks because humans are not perfect. But if there is a safer follow up, with less lag, you should go for it every time. Mind game risks often don't equal the rewards.

 

[da K.I.D.]

unless youre down by 120% and you go for an ike f smash on the guy at 50% because theres no other way youll win.

 

[JMan8891]

I'd call that "desperate times call for desperate measures".

Sonic... can gimp. I don't go into matches banking on them. But so help me.... i'll go for it. If you can tech, you basically wont die. I go deep, and sometimes come up lucky. But... the reward far outweighs the risk

 

[Kupo Rose]

All about them high risk high reward.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

That's kinda why i said Nana, easier to catch off gaurd, but yeah, i already know what you mean.

 

[JMan8891]

Yea, I like the thinking froggy... it's just that unless you are offstage, several moves are faster, less laggy, and leave you in a better position than HA does. So basically it isn't a good option. Hell, style on a no0b and do it, but try a decent IC main and see how fast you get hit...

REALLY situational: moderate percent, both ICs around... 70%-80%. You Bair them and space terribad so you land it between them, splitting em. Nana goes in front, she gets the sourspot, her bro gets hit with the sweetspot and goes moderatley far away (his DI is irrelevant, he wont die from it...) a HA WOULD be an... alright follow up if you have no jump left to go for Fair/Uair on her. But, i'd personally go for a FF, get to the ground, and punish her landing. Hard.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Seems good. I know there's better options, I was just thinking of the knockback and non-staleness. I know it's not too useful, but as Espy said (4th time he talks to save you time), any advantage counts. I know he was talking about only facing MK, but I still believe it can be applied elsewhere.

 

[JMan8891]

It does. But the key thing was advantage. You see the train of thought, and im sure you can go over the scenarios in your head. The big issue is they are either together (never go for it unless offstage. If you target nana, popo can Bair you in the recoil and that leads to a postional disadvantage/high chance for more dmg). Or they are actually already seperate, but grounded options are probably best (Dsmash/Fsmash) and in the air Uair will pop her high, fair/bair sends her away (away from her bro) with better follow up options. Less lag and better position = advantage

 

[Praxis]

Somewhat what I thought. I'll be able to drive in two years, but anyways, Spokane. Don't think there's any talent in Washington unless you count Gimpyfish from Melee.

Ouch.

Actually, Spokane had a lot of talent. Jamnt0ast, Itakio, Valdens, Chip, myself, and a few other players were pretty high level. I no longer really play, but I think Jamnt0ast still organizes stuff.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Anyways, from my experience this has (mostly) worked. Can HA be used to gimp (or aid in gimping) Wario?

Also, @JMan and Praxis: Ok.

 

[JMan8891]

Honestly, True Blue has had more success than any Sonic with HA. His thoughts hold much merit. Thoughts on both of these man???

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

so i've heard... (and somewhat seen)

 

[True Blue]

Ok so I saw my name. Rarely check in here but I guess I have to with my name said lol.

Um what am I supposed to be answering? The Wario thing?
Um I am pretty sure Homing Attack can work to help gimp him but in all honesty when it comes to gimping him off his bike I prefer throwing the spring down on him cause the tiniest of hits will knock him off his bike.
But I guess it also depends where you are coming from. Like it is that very situational move where it works everywhere but at the same time nowhere. lol
But there have been times I have been recovering in the same area as a Wario and I Homing Attacked into them as they pulled out the bike or jumped off and usually ends of gimping them or stage spiking them. But it is all about how far away you are and which direction you face when using Homing Attack to make sure it hits the right way.


Merit sounds funny... lol

Edit: Also to touch up on the IC's thing. Don't do it when they are grounded. It is an easy pivot grab if the IC's know what they are doing. I learned that the hard way at Apex last year... Personally I do not try to use homing attack against IC's unless it is only one left and sometimes when they recover with Side B cause I think it can break through and knock one out and make the other free fall, I assume. (Can't remember cause I don't play IC's a lot)
But obviously there are better options out there against them. Or use it on IC's when they are commiting to there desync BS which makes there window to punish smaller. Though once again, better options out there lol. And I only use it to add mix up or to chase after knocking them in the air from spindash.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Thanks.

Also, "The Wario thing" sounds funny too lol

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

VERY situational, but just maybe:

press B to rise to avoid Falcons Side-B, and press B again to laungh HA when he's open.

If you're counting the seconds on Snakes C4 and he trips on it, press B to rise, and right after that, press B when he's launching up for another hit.

Or you can not press B and wait for the whole thing maybe?

Also, how effective is HA stall on the yellow falling platforms on Rainbow Cruise. It works for me a little bit.

 

[True Blue]

Falcon's Side B sounds tricky to avoid just cause that usually has a big box to activate and let out the fiery hit box it produces when it reaches something it can hit. But I think Homing Attack clashes with it anyways even if you get hit? Don't remember using it in that situation. But they usually don't use it far off stage and if it is on stage it is easier to get a punish off there landing lag from it.

Didn't understand the Snake thing all the way. But sounds waaaaaay to specific and too much to do for a little hit.

And on Rainbow I don't do it, more so cause I am on the carpets trying to throw people into the blocks so that they hopefully don't tech and die. lol

 

[JMan8891]

HA has bad start up and total commitment, Sonic listfully rises up, and you can shorten that to HA sooner. Problem in both those scenarios is you basically are making a hard read, with a really bad move.

Just... HA thread aside, stop fishing. The lunker is with Bair as fair as aerials are concerned. FSmash on the ground.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

How is the Snake thing too much? Just count the seconds on his C4. That's how Nairo gets in on ADHD, by counting the seconds his bananas are on the ground.

I know it's really situational, but it doesn't sound like i'm going out of my way or anything. Just wondering, but i'll stop fishing.

 

[JMan8891]

I was really just forcing a Zelda fishing reference to add some depth to my post froggy, lol

If you are counting seconds on Snake's C4 (logical, i try my best to do it, its smart and safe...) and snake somehow isn't doing the same (unlikely) AND he trips on said C4 so it blows up on him (terribad on their part, but hey... it COULD happen i suppose...) you STILL have to see the trip, and say "im gonna HA with BAD start up, to chase!" when you could...
A: low percentages- do any aerial really, he wont get sent too far from you
B: mid percentages- make a read on his DI and chase, at the very least gain stage control/land camping
C: high percentages- Spring chase if they miss the DI, or make a hard read on the chase. Again, at the very least gain stage control/land camp.

HA homes, but if Snakes moving too fast... your HA will not come out fast enough to home him and if you miss you very will might eat a harder punish. Even still, to even chance this, its a HARD read with a move that isn't too fast for the attack box to get out, even if shortened

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

I was thinking more mid-percents. But yeah, thanks, and i'll probably stop trying anyways. I wasn't even "trying" then, I just thought of it.

 

[True Blue]

Personally I just use it to change things up or when people get very grabby. Cause I have had many instances that when people attempt to dash grab me I use Homing Attack and rise out of the grab range and hit them.
Though another thing to know about homing attack is to figure out which characters cannot punish it easily cause once you hit you gotta commit to the left or right and basically if they don't read your direction that you are going to travel than you get off scott free. I think usually where ever you are facing you travel more in that direction so be sure to know which direction you input before the Homing Attack so you know where Sonic will be facing after it and you can wiggle in the air better. If ya guys get my drift.
I may have said this stuff already but I don't remember. So sorry if I am just repeating things.
Also if I am wrong someone feel free to point it out. lol

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

also it should be noted you can cancel the landing lag of HA if you slide off a ledge of any kind. essentially making the move safe if you wiff it. i've done this numerous times and gone straight into a bair for a nice baited punish. Also HA ***** tether recoveries if you fastfall off the ledge and use it.(i only really do this when HA can possible score me a nice stage spike gimp) And its less likely to land HA on pit and ZSS (so far the only characters i've really tested). I think it has something to do with their hurtboxes and how HA arcs around it when it locks onto them.

 

[True Blue]

Oh... Thought that was known lol. Guess not. I rarely use it though cause I hate platform stages.

I know using Homing Attack on a ZSS player is not wise at all. If you hit shield they get an auto up air without any care or precision of where you will be heading to after the hit. And her tether recovery I think has invincibility when she reals herself in? Or is just to quick for us to get at her compared to other tethers.
And it could be your distance from them, or the direction you are facing, or how they are moving away/towards you. There is a lot of little things that causes Homing Attack to miss.

 

[JMan8891]

I still like runoff fair/bair/nair for the attempted stage spike myself.

 

[True Blue]

I like the occasional death when I run off stage to kill someone, whether it be mine or my opponent's stock. Someone must die. lol

 

[JMan8891]

^qft. ONE OF US is going down in a flashy blaze of glory.

 

[True Blue]

Who needs a stage when you have a ledge and two characters that can spike and snap to the ledge easy. Just a giant circle of ***********. lol

 

[JMan8891]

Till one FFs and makes the other wiff, and then they take the stage and roll off at the right time

:stupidfox:

 

[da K.I.D.]

for the record, the best and only consistent use for HA is when the opponent has you in the air and is land camping you and trying to time a grab, instead of ADing into the ground and getting grabbed, you HA and rise above their grab and punish them for it.

 

[JMan8891]

^ i will cosign to this. I think that's the ONLY time i ever use it these days...