How amazing is the new shielding system?

[Gimpyfish62]

seriously. it is AMAZING.

this thread discusses how amazing the new sheild system is, and what characters can do out of sheild that is incredibly useful. mostly for discussion of ground moves and stuff that couldn't really happen in melee, such as tilts and smashes, and grounded b moves.

basically let's make a little list of the great things each character can do shall we?

Bowser
jabs, ftilt, dtilt, up tilt (on the fatties), klaw, firebreath (amazing!) and even POWERSHEILD -> DOWN B. it seriously works. lol

captain falcon
i dont play him much, i know he can jab and do a couple tilts, probably can forward b effectively also, somebody post things that are cool here.

diddy kong
wow, what CANT he do out of sheild. down tilt is amazing, forward tilt is amazing, up tilt is amazing, diddy kong has a lot he can do out of sheild that combos into a lot of other things.

DK
My personal favorite is giant punch out of sheild at higher percents. guaronteed to hit on most moves when they hit your sheild, you can also dtilt out of sheild to trip people up into some other moves, that's also really good, along with standard jabs and ftilt to get some space. too good.
down b out of sheild is way to hilarious

Falco
falco can shine out of sheild lol, not very useful, but humorous XD
jabs work, up tilt works to start combos, ftilt for a bit of space, and dtilt still has some power in it.
he's also fast enough to get smashes out of sheild on most moves, which is a really useful way to get kill moves.

Fox
fox can do pretty much the exact same things falco can do, but in general it seems more useful. *shrug*

gw
game and watch has a couple really good moves out of sheild, namely his hammer (lol guaronteed hits) fsmash and his dtilt. his other moves work well enough, but those are likely going to be your 3 most useful moves out of sheild.

ganon
jab and ftilt work on some moves, but the best thing he's got is forward b out of sheild. that move is seriously amazing.

ic
i dont play these guys a lot, any suggestions? i'd be thinking of melee iceys, and i'm not sure how much the knockbacks of tilts and the like have changed, i do know that fsmash out of sheild is good though.

ike
jabs, thats about all this slow guy can manage out of sheild, and that is AMAZING with him. his jabs do huge damage and can kill at higher percents. very useful, but not a lot of variety here.

puff
rest! haha, only off a powersheild on certain moves of a big character, but it still works in general if you jump into rest on some stuff. i dont play puff much either, i'd imagine up tilt (or turn around up tilt) would be really good here, but again, i'm not sure.

d3
jabs and ftilt are fine, but you can get easy dtilts and up tilts out of sheild for kills with this guy. really good stuff, generally though with d3 is best to just sheild grab, he has amazing grabs.


kirby
turn around up tilt! combo central right there. you an also do things like ftilt and the like, but up tilt is probably your best option.

link
i dont play much link, jabs are fast enough, but i'm not sure what else is. suggestions?


lucario
charged neutral b out of sheild is too good, up tilt setups out of sheild, dtilt setups, jabs, lucario has a great sheild game because of his effective combos and quick moves. neutral b out of sheild is too good, guaronteed hit on most moves.

lucas
i dont use lucas much, i imagine his out of sheild game isn't highly impressive though, but i'm really not sure.

luigi
powersheild -> up b is great, you can do dtilt ouf of sheild to trip people to lead into other stuff, luigi's got decent stuff here, but again, doesn't seem to have a lot of effective variety, down b out of sheild is pretty good at some points though.

mario
up tilt out of sheild? oh how mario's would have longed for htat in melee, and here it is in brawl, still comborific too. thats probably your best bet. that or fludd. just kidding.

marth
marth forward b out of sheild is one of the dumbest (meaning good) things in the game, what an amazing punish. that move is already super abusable, and now we can do it straight out of sheild. fsmash is decent, but you'll never land a tip this way *shrug* obviously up b is crazy haha


metaknight
DTILT out of sheild. amazing. it tips them and leads into combo craziness. you can also dsmash obviously for kills at higher percents, not a lot of variety, but amazing amazing amazing punishes here.

ness
i dont use ness... i have no clue haha

peach
dsmash oos! maybe if it wasn't nerfed so badly haha, shes got nice tilts and a good fsmash/up smash to use though, those work well for good punishes.

pikachu
HERES the dsmash out of sheild from peach melee form. waht an annoyance when fighting against pikachu. he's got a nice fsmash (depending on spacing and the moves that hit) and a decent up tilt/dtilt. generally stick to the annoying dsmash oos at least as far as i know.

olimar
do anything you want. olimar is campy garbage with crazy range and punishes haha


pit
over b out of sheild for the lulz and annoyance, its decent, but not great. you can combo with tilts and kill with smashes. pit has a lot of variety, and most of it is effective.

trainer
char
charizard can do firebreath out of sheild like bowser. too good. forward b out of sheild is crazy good, and most of his tilts can kill, but his smashes are in general too slow.

squirtle
squirtle can combo out of sheild with up tilt, and his smash attacks are really good, namely his up smash.

ivy
neutral b out of sheild. seriously. if the opponent has sub par di you've just dealt over 30% because an opponent hit your shield. otherwise you can do ftilt (decent) and a few other moves, but generally he doesn't have a lot of super quick moves to do here. i'd stick with neutral b at lower percents.

rob
rob can do dtilt to trip people, ftilt for some room, and his dsmash is really really amazing. its super fast. you can shoot your lazer and up smash, although those aren't as useful, the up smash doesn't move quickly enough.

samus
dtilt and ftilt are good, fsmash is great for killing, but the real super move here is the charge shot. guaronteed hits after pretty much every move. very VERY useful.

sheik
ftilt/dtilt please. pretty much everything sheik can do out of sheild is great, except for like needles and forward b lol

snake
powersheild -> c4 stick is amazing. you can tilt and jab out of sheild, mix it up so you're moves dont get negated in knockback, and you'll be killing anyone who touches you at low percent with snakes broken garbage. lol

sonic
one of the ways sonic can actually land an fsmash is powersheild fsmash (on some moves) other than that you can dtilt or up tilt to setup for other stuff, but he doesnt' seem to have a lot of good options here.

tlink
toon link can easily land his amazing smashes out of sheild, otherwise his stuff isn't so great as far as i know, but what a great way to kill.

wario
fully charged wario waft! too good! careful about how high you are on the stage, you can actually kill yourself with this one. otherwise his fsmash is really great, if they react quickly enough or hit you with something that has REALLY low lag and try to punish you, your no finch frames will take care of that, dont dsmash. if it doesnt' land you are a sitting duck.


wolf
wolfs tilts and smashes are all good, but this is actually a decent time to use your blaster if you want some space. the gun actually hits people away then the shot hits, so you'll do decent percent and give youself space to get back into your game. some things combo, but in general he doesnt' have a lot here as far as i know.

yoshi
i dont play yoshi, but his dtilt and smash seem like they would be decent enough

zelda
dtilt out of sheild trips people, which leads into other things you'd be doin out of sheild like fsmash and the rest. generally, dtilt to get a bit of extra damage into whatever you were going to do out of sheild other than dtilt.

zss
i dont play her a lot, but dsmash oos seems like it might be useful (could be too slow) or your neutral b, but again, i dont use these characters.






discuss your favorite things out of sheild in this thread, and add to general strats here.

new sheilding system ftw.

 

[Yuna]

I personally think the new shielding system detracts from the game.

The game would be pretty limited on approach even without it. But with less shieldstun, less shielddroplag, less stun altogether and super armor on grabs, it's all boiling down to a giant camping and turtling game. Very few character can approach safely, especially with the new shielding system.

I mean, in normal fighting games, you have mixups with High/Mid (Overhead)/Low. In Smash, you just pressure and hope they guess wrong when to roll/shieldgrab/aerial/spotdodge. Now, you can't even do that anymore.

 

[mikeHAZE]

fox upsmash oos is ****

 

[Circle_Breaker]

Oh wow, Yuna talking about how Brawl won't be competitive? I'm shocked.

 

[Yes!!]

Snake can stick with C4, A,A,A (awesome combo) and even forward tilt, which is a monstrous combo.

 

[MookieRah]

Ganon can >B out of a shield? Is there a trick to it, or do you simply press >B and he goes to town? If so DAYUM, that is nutty.

But with less shieldstun, less shielddroplag, less stun altogether and super armor on grabs, it's all boiling down to a giant camping and turtling game. Very few character can approach safely, especially with the new shielding system.

Defensive options were buffed like CRAZY, however, doesn't the shield go down much faster? I know in melee on the rare occasion when my shield was low I actually had to think about my options differently, and if they happened more often in Brawl then that would work out overall.

Some moves seem to murder shields as well. G&W's bair anyone?

 

[red6170]

sounds pretty cool... that sounds awesome 4 mario

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

I personally think the new shielding system detracts from the game.

The game would be pretty limited on approach even without it. But with less shieldstun, less shielddroplag, less stun altogether and super armor on grabs, it's all boiling down to a giant camping and turtling game. Very few character can approach safely, especially with the new shielding system.

I mean, in normal fighting games, you have mixups with High/Mid (Overhead)/Low. In Smash, you just pressure and hope they guess wrong when to roll/shieldgrab/aerial/spotdodge. Now, you can't even do that anymore.

I haven't played Brawl, nor am I a pro at Melee, but it sounds like in this case, throwing will become much more common to overcome camping and shielding. I could (and will) be wrong, though.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

its not like sheild camping is going to be the premier strategy in brawl haha

but the game overall i'm sure will be more compy *shrug*

you just drop your sheild and then do the moves, thats how you over b out of sheild haha

 

[Byron X]

I love this new system.

 

[orintemple]

This sounds crazy! I am guessing that there will be a lot of throwing in brawl, even more so than Melee, and now we go to pressure a shield and if your too close then its not just the shieldgrab you gotta watch out for anymore. Now we gotta worry about being smashed and comboed 0_o!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shield approaching will be a dominant tactic in this game.

Marth and Pit out of shield game is too good.

Sonic just got a bit better since he is so fast and can abuse this.

Also Sonic's F-tilt out of shield is good. And he has a solid jab combo.

Also Marth can do D-smash or U-smash out of shield to kill when they are close.

Why does Marth have so many options?

 

[Yuna]

I haven't played Brawl, nor am I a pro at Melee, but it sounds like in this case, throwing will become much more common to overcome camping and shielding. I could (and will) be wrong, though.

Only throws suck for the most parts now. And if you're dashthrowing people, they can just smash/tilt/jab you on approach.

its not like sheild camping is going to be the premier strategy in brawl haha

but the game overall i'm sure will be more compy *shrug*

you just drop your sheild and then do the moves, thats how you over b out of sheild haha

Who needs to shieldcamp? All you have to do is shield moves. Approach is already limited. Now we'll also be limited to moves that have virtually no lag in order to be able to shield the shielddropped jabs/smashes/tilts.

The thing is that the new shield system just introduces yet another element which limits approach... which promotes camping since approach is extremely risky now unless you a select few characters.

 

[stryderhyru]

zelda is just toooo good guys....downtilt to downsmash its fun too...u can keep tripping people if u just downtilt alot wen there at a higher percentage xP

 

[Kokichi]

So it's not really "out of your shield", right, Gimpy? You're just talking about letting go of the shield button, then attacking? That's how you can do an A-combo out of it instead of grabbing? Or are you talking about when you powershield it creates a little stun in the opponent and allows you to react faster (that's how you can get out of being hit over and over with an A attack)?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shield drop to w/e.

Shield drop seems to be 1 frame. Maybe 2.

 

[lazychi]

What i like about the new system is almost NO LAG after perfect shielding. Its great for approaching my friends projectile spamming and it opens up new styles of play for heavies. And i can actually get some nice punishes with heavies with Perfect Shielding



btw i do have the game

 

[that 1 guy]

Only throws suck for the most parts now. And if you're dashthrowing people, they can just smash/tilt/jab you on approach.


Who needs to shieldcamp? All you have to do is shield moves. Approach is already limited. Now we'll also be limited to moves that have virtually no lag in order to be able to shield the shielddropped jabs/smashes/tilts.

The thing is that the new shield system just introduces yet another element which limits approach... which promotes camping since approach is extremely risky now unless you a select few characters.

Well you don't necessarily have to use moves with no lag. I'm sure some moves have enough range that you can space an attack against a shield and not get destroyed for it, but yeah shield pressure tactics are going to be quite a bit different than melee.

 

[Yuna]

Well you don't necessarily have to use moves with no lag. I'm sure some moves have enough range that you can space an attack against a shield and not get destroyed for it, but yeah shield pressure tactics are going to be quite a bit different than melee.

Unless you're facing someone with a good fair (like Marth) since the game also has less shieldstun.

 

[Emblem Lord]

LOL.

Marth can punish someone who has good spacing and not get punished himself cuz his fair lets him space so well.

<3 Marth.

 

[Weed]

This is the thing that lets you attack quickly and without knockback (on your part) when you time a shield perfectly, right? I think it's great, sort of reminds me of parrying from SFIII

 

[lazychi]

o yeaaaa i forgot about that, the SFIII parry system is very identical to the new shield system and yes i think its great

 

[RyokoYaksa]

It's "s-h-i-e-l-d," Gimpy.

I'm also surprised Perfect Shielding was not mentioned. If you happen to perfect shield a powerful, laggy move, then your options when releasing your shield increase tenfold. Perfect Shielding also greatly reduces shield pushback, but doesn't really have an effect against multi-hit attacks like Zelda's Fsmash or Bowser's Dsmash.

 

[smashbot226]

God ****ed Brawl shielding gets me hard...

But why you ask?

You cannot ponder such questions, as I have just...

You get the idea...

I am loving the shields, babe. I think throwing out of them is easier, or from what I've seen at least. Perfect shielding adds even MORE strategy to defense, just trying to PS.

It brings out even more combo-ability. Imagine it:

DDD:

PS to Utilt, then a Dair, Dtilt, B>, Dthrow, Fsmash.

B-E-A-UTIFUL...

 

[Emblem Lord]

>____________>

Brawl engine denies this combo.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

thats an impressive d3 combo >_>

i dont even think that would work if there was no controller plugged in for that slot and you just waited for it to fall to the ground at you lol

wtf

 

[Weed]

God ****ed Brawl shielding gets me hard...

But why you ask?

You cannot ponder such questions, as I have just...

You get the idea...

I am loving the shields, babe. I think throwing out of them is easier, or from what I've seen at least. Perfect shielding adds even MORE strategy to defense, just trying to PS.

It brings out even more combo-ability. Imagine it:

DDD:

PS to Utilt, then a Dair, Dtilt, B>, Dthrow, Fsmash.

B-E-A-UTIFUL...

Your combo ends at Dair xD

 

[PsychoMidget]

I personally think the new shielding system detracts from the game.

The game would be pretty limited on approach even without it. But with less shieldstun, less shielddroplag, less stun altogether and super armor on grabs, it's all boiling down to a giant camping and turtling game. Very few character can approach safely, especially with the new shielding system.

I mean, in normal fighting games, you have mixups with High/Mid (Overhead)/Low. In Smash, you just pressure and hope they guess wrong when to roll/shieldgrab/aerial/spotdodge. Now, you can't even do that anymore.

o man I never thought about it like that T_T

... but now Up-B out of shield with snake is way easier!

It's sad that this promotes camping

 

[Emblem Lord]

Brawl will just be spacing with SH's,crawling, and walking.

Camping with projectiles and in the shield.

Approaching with shields.

YAY BRAWL!!!!!

 

[PsychoMidget]

sounds like ike fits right in there with all his projectiles, his ability to crawl, and hard to punish attacks T_T lol

 

[Timat the Slayer]

This thread is amazing. I love it.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Nevermind. >_>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wow lol sarcasm detector must be in the shop

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Are these out of powershields, or regular shielding?

 

[PsychoMidget]

I guess you could pull of some from shielding but if you powershield it guarantees pretty much everything Gimpy listed

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ike has Quick Draw and can space with Fairs and Nairs.

Nair is awesome with Ike.

He can still walk or dash into shield so it's all good.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Do you mean perform a move while shielding? Like Melee's Up moves OOS? Is this possible with every move? o_o

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shield drop is about 1-2 frame(s). Shield then drop it to w/e you want.

DAMMIT PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION!!!!

 

[smashbot226]

thats an impressive d3 combo >_>

i dont even think that would work if there was no controller plugged in for that slot and you just waited for it to fall to the ground at you lol

wtf

It gives me fantasies thinking about it.

It may end at Dair...

Well, it's physically impossible... until I accomplish it.... if possible.

 

[PsychoMidget]

Do you mean perform a move while shielding? Like Melee's Up moves OOS? Is this possible with every move? o_o

no no you release the shield then attack, if you powershield it gives you almost no shield stun so you can powershield an attack then release the shield immediately and perform an attack