Q&A How does one cure motion sickness? - Cloud Q&A Thread

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

I've find myself using throws to attempt to combo, namely d-throw into forward smash at 0 percent, or i find myself throwing out down tilts at random.

help friends

 

[Sari]

Hi, I just started using and I'm thinking of making him one of my secondaries. Here are some questions I have:

• What moves are the best for keeping opponents away from you?
• Which throws should I be using?
• Which limit break moves should I be using in certain situations?
• What types of characters does Cloud have the advantage over and which ones does he struggle with?
• What can I do to overcome his mediocre recovery?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Syndralix]

So many question, not a lot of answers...@_@ I'll do my best.

What determines the victor on a Climhazzard suicide spike, is it character weight, fall speed, percent, or the portion of the active frames that connects? I've landed it on a Falco and Falcon and killed them first, while Cloud died first when I landed it on a DK and a Ganon.

There's no hard-and-fast rule with Cloudicide; it's really just whoever hits the blastline first. Percentage varies by character, but fast-fallers tend to die sooner.

I've find myself using throws to attempt to combo, namely d-throw into forward smash at 0 percent, or i find myself throwing out down tilts at random.

help friends

First of all, Cloud doesn't have any guaranteed followups from ANY of his throws. It's all about conditioning and reads. For example, on For Glory, most people aren't quick enough to react to Dthrow > Cross Slash, which does good damage without making Fsmash go stale. His other throws are mostly "get outta my face" tools to let you charge Limit Break.

As for the random Dtilts, if you're doing anything at random, it means you're not paying to what the other guy is doing - you're just throwing out moves and hoping they work. That's gonna lead to you making a special guest appearance in an Alpharad-style montage. Try exercising your patience by watching the opponent and reacting to what they do.

Hi, I just started using and I'm thinking of making him one of my secondaries. Here are some questions I have:

• What moves are the best for keeping opponents away from you?
• Which throws should I be using?
• Which limit break moves should I be using in certain situations?
• What types of characters does Cloud have the advantage over and which ones does he struggle with?
• What can I do to overcome his mediocre recovery?

Thanks in advance.

• Blade Beam and Nair. Blade Beam forces them into the air, where Nair's disjointed hitbox will beat out a lot of options they can take. Uair, Utilt and Usmash are good as mixups. Just make sure you beat them to the punch, since they'll probably try to use an aerial themselves.
• At low percents, Dthrow. At mid to high percents it doesn't really matter, but at extremely high percents Uthrow becomes a kill move.
• Blade Beam is good at getting offstage kills and covering bad reads and getup options. Cross Slash and Finishing Touch can cover high recoveries and, if you're feeling bold, ledge snaps. Climhazzard usually consumes your Limit Break during recovery, but you can sometimes use it to snipe someone who's near the top of the screen. But above all else, learn your opponent's patterns and go for a hard read when you feel the time is right.
• It's still a bit early to tell, but in my opinion Cloud is a pretty good defensive fighter. Many rushdown characters fight an uphill battle to get into his zone, and zoning characters fight an uphill battle to keep him out. But wallers have no problem beating out Cloud's options, projectile users can easily nullify Blade Beam, and anyone with superior frame data tends to win the matchup regardless of type.
• Aside from Limit Break, I've found that Blade Beam can be used for air-stalling to get you a little more horizontal distance before you press Up-B. Also, Climhazzard does sweetspot the ledge, it's just at the beginning of the move rather than the end. You can thank Mew2King for that bit of info.

 

[Beltbuckle]

I've been working on trying to get short hopping and frame cancelling Cloud's fair down, but I just can't seem to find the rhythm. Have any of you been able to do it with consistency? I know it can be done (because I've done a few) but I just can't seem to find the right timing. So any tips or pointers would be insanely appreciated - any visual cues for when to start the fair and when to fast fall the jump would also be extremely helpful.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Does anyone have tips for recovering as Cloud? I know there's a way to auto snap onto the ledge if your close enough but I don't really know how to do it consistently.

 

[Pixel_]

I've been working on trying to get short hopping and frame cancelling Cloud's fair down, but I just can't seem to find the rhythm. Have any of you been able to do it with consistency? I know it can be done (because I've done a few) but I just can't seem to find the right timing. So any tips or pointers would be insanely appreciated - any visual cues for when to start the fair and when to fast fall the jump would also be extremely helpful.

Do you mean auto cancelling? I went into training mode but couldn't find a way to auto cancel his F-air other than from a full hop.

Most of his aerials can auto cancel (i.e. you can fastfall) once Cloud's sword isn't green anymore, but his F-air doesn't seem to auto cancel until his sword isn't in front of him anymore. Basically, fastfall once he's putting his sword away. I also checked if it auto cancelled once it hit someone (somehow) just in case, but it didn't look like it worked.

Does anyone have tips for recovering as Cloud? I know there's a way to auto snap onto the ledge if your close enough but I don't really know how to do it consistently.

The auto snap is when you're really close. Like, right next to it. You only really have to do it when you need that little boost, so I don't think you need to practice it or anything.
Neutral Special can be helpful since you can glide left or right while using it, and also since it gives you a little bit of stalling time in the air. Side Special can also stall if you want to throw the opponent off (but note that this might backfire completely).
Other than that, try to get the limit Up-B, I guess.

 

[Zalezus]

Do you mean auto cancelling? I went into training mode but couldn't find a way to auto cancel his F-air other than from a full hop.

Most of his aerials can auto cancel (i.e. you can fastfall) once Cloud's sword isn't green anymore, but his F-air doesn't seem to auto cancel until his sword isn't in front of him anymore. Basically, fastfall once he's putting his sword away. I also checked if it auto cancelled once it hit someone (somehow) just in case, but it didn't look like it worked.


The auto snap is when you're really close. Like, right next to it. You only really have to do it when you need that little boost, so I don't think you need to practice it or anything.
Neutral Special can be helpful since you can glide left or right while using it, and also since it gives you a little bit of stalling time in the air. Side Special can also stall if you want to throw the opponent off (but note that this might backfire completely).
Other than that, try to get the limit Up-B, I guess.

See Izaw's "Art of Cloud". The first thing in the video is about the FC'd Fair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKRuW0a7Zfw

Coming from Melee, I don't really understand frame cancelling completely myself. But if you full hop and Fair AT THE PEAK of the jump and then immediately fast fall, the first hitbox of the fair will come out around the same time that it:

1. connects to the target (giving you and opponent hitlag, it should be the spike hitbox)
2. you touch down on the ground

I guess the combination of the two cancels any landing lag from the aerial (functioning like an autocancel but not requiring that the AC frames be active), any follow ups to this appear to be true combos(?)

The timing is rather strict, and Falco has been known to have a FC in his Dair.

 

[Beltbuckle]

Zalezus has got it. I'm trying to get the timing down for doing it out of a short hop as opposed to a full hop. I managed 3 or 4 last night, but that was over several hours of attempts haha.

Thanks though, Pixel_ , for that autocancel info - that's definitely going to come in handy.

 

[-Iceberg]

Zalezus has got it. I'm trying to get the timing down for doing it out of a short hop as opposed to a full hop. I managed 3 or 4 last night, but that was over several hours of attempts haha.

Thanks though, Pixel_ , for that autocancel info - that's definitely going to come in handy.

Can you record a video of Frame Canceling Fair from a Short Hop? I've tried many times, and haven't had any success. I even went into Training Mode and counted the specific frames that I inputted the Fast Fall and Fair, as well as what frame it hit, but still couldn't Frame Cancel it.

 

[Zalezus]

Not sure if possible from a short hop. Check out the link in my reply.

 

[ligersandtigons]

any tips on how to fight mario and luigi?

 

[-Iceberg]

Not sure if possible from a short hop. Check out the link in my reply.

Yep I've seen Izaw's video. He does mention that Fair can only be Frame Canceled from a Full Hop, which from testing I'm inclined to agree with. Although, if Beltbuckle has proof that it can be Frame Canceled from a Short Hop, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Beltbuckle]

Can you record a video of Frame Canceling Fair from a Short Hop? I've tried many times, and haven't had any success. I even went into Training Mode and counted the specific frames that I inputted the Fast Fall and Fair, as well as what frame it hit, but still couldn't Frame Cancel it.

I'll give it a go tonight and tomorrow, like I said, I haven't been able to get it consistently yet, but I have had several successful attempts.

Edit: It took a lot less time to get it this time around. I'll be uploading a video in a couple minutes here once I cut out 90% of the failures.

 

[Beltbuckle]

Alright, so here's the video. I'm pretty sure this is frame cancelled, since I'm able to immediately link the jab. I'm gonna mess around with it a little more, and see if I can get dash attack out or other stuff.

Hopefully I can post a video link haha.

 

[Zalezus]

any tips on how to fight mario and luigi?

I'll just give you some notes based on my FG play:

I like/hate this matchup from what I've played, although I will not be taking either of them to Omega or FD in tournament (personal preference.)

There's a kind of Mario Bros. player that utilitzes (spams) fireballs like the dickens. Don't let this make you aggressive as this is what lets them set you up into a long string for maybe 20%. Don't freak out if you get into one of their strings/combos; you as Cloud can do as much damage in two well place hits as said strings or X many tilts/aerials. Wait them out, bait if you must, and take your punishes. Your stray hits and trades are better for you than them.

I jab/tilt fireballs and maintain stage positioning, avoiding the jump button as that sets them up easily for a juggle (Cloud's weight works against him here). Mixing up with dtilt (trading with the fireballs) sort of forces them to act as you approach, and given your range they'll probably jump or try to grab.

I ILBC into jab/tilt as a bait, very little they do outside of dash grab, cape, and fireball can beat your range/speed. Utilt goes a long ways on these guys.

In general, I try not to approach unless their back is at the ledge. SH in place to Dair/Nair/Bair or FH slight fade back to Fair covers ground approaches, grabs, early commit aerial, and using the AC frames with proper spacing or just a good read can punish an air dodge. Jab is really good at catching landing out of AC and Cross Slash keeps them camping or pressuring at arms length....but YOU have a sword

Alright, so here's the video. I'm pretty sure this is frame cancelled, since I'm able to immediately link the jab. I'm gonna mess around with it a little more, and see if I can get dash attack out or other stuff.

Hopefully I can post a video link haha.

That's pretty tight timing. Fair at the peak or slightly before?

 

[Beltbuckle]

That's pretty tight timing. Fair at the peak or slightly before?

I can't really tell LMAO. I think it might be some combination of timing fair with the peak and fast fall with the swing, but I can't figure it out completely =\

 

[Zalezus]

Just did it a few times.

Fastfalling with the swing seems to work. I'm using an aural and a visual cue: he holds the sword behind his head and then grunts before the hitbox comes out as he swings.

Man..Fair may have a somewhat slow startup, but when it comes out it's out in a just a couple of frames.

Also FC Fair to FC Fair to FC Fair *appears* to be true from any jump height Hahahaha

EDIT: All of these cancels into true follow ups looking like Marth 2001

 

[Rocxidi]

Vs Pac Man, what's the best move to attack his hydrant with? Dash Attack fails to launch the hydrant and Fsmash is slower when it connects with something, giving Pac time to attack.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Can you DI out of Cloud's combos? He can do Uair and Nair followup juggles for days until you land, then still strike with FSmash, FTilt, or DTilt. I was getting popped by a lot, but wondering if it'd be easier to just DI away.

 

[DE235]

In this Philadelphia tournament a Cloud player named Squall beat angel cortez. Does anyone know where the footage is?

 

[Metallinatus]

a Cloud player named Squall

Bruh....

 

[Steve.Stone]

What do you guys suggest for landing and recovering? My opponents always guard whatever I try to land with, and since Cloud doesn't autosnap to the ledge they just guard climhazard and attack me.

 

[Metallinatus]

What do you guys suggest for landing and recovering? My opponents always guard whatever I try to land with, and since Cloud doesn't autosnap to the ledge they just guard climhazard and attack me.

Land and grab for a mixup.

 

[Gavyn]

I use his Nspecial for spacing, as with his Nair and Bair, while I save Fair for punishes. I use Fspecial pretty sparingly, and I only charge if I feel the need to. Otherwise I charge my LB in battle. I hardly ever use Dair or Uair. For KO's my go-to move is Fsmash, for roll predicting I either use Dtilt or Dsmash, and for ledge situations I use Usmash. My go-to LB killer is either Fspecial or Dspecial, but Dspecial is usually saved for roll punishes. I use his LB Nspecial to space with, and that usually works out. I'm good enough that I'm going positive with Cloud, but I feel like I could do better. So, any tips? Any are appreciated

 

[~Skelly~]

Start utilizing Uair and Dair more. Uair is good for juggling and KOs and is almost unchallengeable save for a few moves (Ganondorf's Wizard's Foot is one). Dair, especially autocanceled ones, is a great combo starter that can lead into Cloud's other air attacks and then some.

Also, don't overrely on FSmash as a kill move. While very good and should be used, it is also very punishable if the opponent shields it, especially if they see it coming.

Use Climhazzard (Up-B) as an out of shield option. It's quick and it's a good punish and spacing tool.

Hope these helped. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Gavyn]

K. Thank you! What other kill options do I have? I've noticed Dsmash is powerful but has little to no knockback... Btw, I realized that Uair is him pushing up his sword. Yeah that kills well, and I realized I do use it often. Just not Dair. I thought his Uair was the same as Shulk's while typing... Anymore kill options?

 

[Metallinatus]

You will have more luck asking anything Cloud related here: http://smashboards.com/threads/how-does-one-cure-motion-sickness-cloud-q-a-thread.423326/

 

[Garde Noir]

FSmash is one of your best kill options, being quite fast, though missing is very punishable. Don't overutilize it, but sure as hell don't count it out. Fair is also good on predictions, and isn't nearly as laggy once you get used to the timing. DAir is amazing against recovery, and allows for pretty safe landings, as well as often meteoring characters. D-Smash is strong but unreliable. I prefer D-tilt to Up-air which juggles for similar damage and keeps them close. Up Smash may be tempting, but it only has a bit more range than up-tilt and is only a bit stronger, with much more lag.

Use D-Spec LB more often, it kills at the lowest percents, with every character dying at 80%, and many below. There's a whole post dedicated to it you can find on here.
Also realize that Up-B comes out Frame 7, and is much faster and harder to shield or dodge, so don't count out using it on your LB, most people don't expect it, and it does a fair amount of knockback, which leads to UpAir juggles. LB can be gotten much faster than you'd think, so you're never "wasting it," especially if you find creative ways to charge-- which you should when there's an open opportunity -- I'll explain why in a second.
Don't use LB Beam Blade if you don't have to too often. It's easy to shield at anything longer than short-medium distances for any player who's paying attention, and usually at the ranges it's effective, using LB Cross Slash has more shield pressure, more damage and more knockback. Just use it as a mix-up.

Be aware that when you're in LB -- the Blue glow -- you're very similar to Shulk's Buster. You deal slightly more damage, and a hair more knockback, and you're a bit faster. It's just a plain buff for Cloud. Try to be in it as much as possible, it can only benefit you.

 

[Gavyn]

Good to know! Thank you

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Be aware that when you're in LB -- the Blue glow -- you're very similar to Shulk's Buster. You deal slightly more damage, and a hair more knockback, and you're a bit faster. It's just a plain buff for Cloud. Try to be in it as much as possible, it can only benefit you.

iirc, clouds lb passive buff only effects ground speed, horizontal air speed, and fall speed. It doesn't effect his damage or knock back in any way.

 

[Deleted member]

I use his Nspecial for spacing, as with his Nair and Bair, while I save Fair for punishes. I use Fspecial pretty sparingly, and I only charge if I feel the need to. Otherwise I charge my LB in battle. I hardly ever use Dair or Uair. For KO's my go-to move is Fsmash, for roll predicting I either use Dtilt or Dsmash, and for ledge situations I use Usmash. My go-to LB killer is either Fspecial or Dspecial, but Dspecial is usually saved for roll punishes. I use his LB Nspecial to space with, and that usually works out. I'm good enough that I'm going positive with Cloud, but I feel like I could do better. So, any tips? Any are appreciated

Use his neutral special for ledge options. The move is very spammable and characters can still get hit from Blade Beam even when grabbing the ledge (when they don't have invincibility that is). I would keep Cloud at a certain distance, however. His up smash, while good, is not the best tool to use at the ledge, especially when not every character can get hit from it while grabbing the ledge. His down tilt is also good against certain characters at the ledge.
Don't use his forward smash too much. While a great kill move, it's very punishable if shielded and it doesn't do a lot of shield damage. Especially keep this in mind with characters with have a decent punish or combo game.
Climhazzard out of shield is a great tool for Cloud. Not only does Cloud deal more damage, but it also has a meteor, meaning characters have a hard time punishing it if they get caught in it.
Use uair and dair more. Dair is a great way to start combos, especially if its autocancelled. Uair enables Cloud to juggle opponents and it's hard to challenge; if you can predict an air dodge, uair is a great move to use.
Down tilt, yes it's a great way to catch rolls, but also use it to start juggles and combos. For being such a heavy character, Cloud has a surprisingly good juggle game.
And speaking of juggles, Cloud has some good air mobility and has some amazing aerials, which is why I stress to use them to your fullest.
With Limit Break, the best option is to press special again to cancel it. Cloud can follow up with an attack and it helps set up mind games for him.
If you grab someone at early percent, I do recommend down throw to side B; Cloud will do an impressive amount of damage, especially if you have the Limit Break version.
Lastly, definitely keep Cloud in Limit mode as much as possible. If you have a Limit Break ready, don't be so quick to use it. Cloud is faster, more mobile, and has a faster falling speed; in fact, his fair can be autocancelled easier while in Limit mode. I also recommend keeping it to create mind games; they will expect a Limit be used like his side B or neutral B or maybe down B. Speaking of down B, it's good for punishing a landing option.

 

[Onoh]

I really like Cloud's moveset and I'm thinking about adding him to my string of mains and secondaries. Of course, since he has only been out for less than a month, there is no "correct way" to play as him yet. So, I wanted to ask you people about how you play Cloud.


I play a more defensive, hit-and-run type of game when playing Smash. With my mains being Bowser Jr. and R.O.B., I tend to pressure with projectiles and rush them with a quick combo or two and then retreating. I tend to do the same thing with Cloud, using B to zone the opponent and approach with his great tilts. I often use d-tilt (a little too much) to get them in the air and juggle. I also like to use u-tilt when the opponent is close to do the same thing. I also started to use full-hop d-air because of its auto cancel and the angle it sends opponents (which is great for comboing). I charge my limit gauge when the opponent can't reach me whether they are offstage or I am in the air waiting to come down. I retreat with n-air and f-tilt and I use his smashes and limits as kills most of the time, or I just use u-air or b-air in the air.

So how do you people play Cloud?

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

When limit is charged, I space the hell out of them with bair. When I see it clearly, uair into FT or side B. I never go quite offensive, I rather go spacing and hit hard when I have the opportunity.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I play him with a GameCube controller

Spoiler: Jokes aside...

I play him the same way I play Bowser; spacing and punishing.

With his Limit Breaks, he might be the ultimate punisher in Smash 4, but you need to be careful with them, especially since the best one, Finishing Touch, has no invincibility frames.

 

[Gavyn]

Down throw to side b is what I do every time. Best part is I found out by playing him in training, not by reading a guide or watching a video

 

[Garde Noir]

iirc, clouds lb passive buff only effects ground speed, horizontal air speed, and fall speed. It doesn't effect his damage or knock back in any way.

my bad, I thought I double checked it, but I misread it.

 

[Stairs]

It seems to me that Cloud in his current state has a LOT of opportunities to make tech chase scenarios in Smash 4, almost reminiscent of Melee Sheik. It feels like someone with good Tech Chase ability can use D-Throw, F-Throw and N-Air to tech chase faster fallers and heavier characters all the way to 70+ percent. Thoughts on this kind of play style versus anything else?

 

[FightingPolygon]

HOW TO EDGEGUARD

 

[AnchorTea]

HOW TO EDGEGUARD

Save the double jump for getting back on-stage.

 

[Rubiss]

Is Cloud able to charge his limit break in the air? I just fought one on For Glory who did just that. If that's the case, the Cloud's limit break seriously needs a nerf. Juggling him actually has consequences.