How is Captain Falcon the worst character?

[Roager]

Edit: one more thing I like to add is, that ganondorf is worse than falcon IMO. As the tier list is based of the highest level of play, so 'the best falcon' VS 'the best ganon' is the match we're looking at. 'the best falcon' sure knows how to dodge and mindgame (so does the ganon player, but ganondorf IS slower) so in theory the ganon can't even touch the falcon. This is far fetched offcourse, and if ganon lands a good smash on you it hits hard, but falcon is faster and speed may not be everything, but I think in this situation it puts falcon above ganondorf.

The Ganon v Falcon matchup isn't enough to tip the tier list, at least in the minds of the SBR. Like, a top tier character, who loses to a bottom tier, but that bottom tier loses to everyone else, the top is still top and the bottom is still bottom. But I personally agree, i think Falcon is better than Ganny.

 

[.CMW.]

i think Falcon is better than Ganny

Agreed. I think this is only true because they have basically the same move set, but it seems to fit CF far better than it fits Ganondorf. There have been tons of Zelda games with Mr. Ganny in them to base a rather simplistic move set off of, yet they totally cloned Ganon out. What a shame...

The move set just fits a faster character better than it fits a slower one.

.CMW.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

their moveset may look the same but they don't play on exactly the same motions. not just cause of the speed difference either.

 

[.CMW.]

Yes yes, the whole look the same play different bit. I gotcha. I got everyone who says this. It's just they were incredibly lazy giving Ganon a cloned move set. It doesn't a character of his physical attributes. It just doesn't.

.CMW.

 

[Wogrim]

Yes yes, the whole look the same play different bit. I gotcha. I got everyone who says this. It's just they were incredibly lazy giving Ganon a cloned move set. It doesn't a character of his physical attributes. It just doesn't.

.CMW.

His Warlock Punch feels good, but it needs super armor or something. Or maybe they should have given him something that soaks up projectiles like G&W's bucket.

I'd like his jab more if it had no knockback but massive hitstun (something more along the lines of DK's side-B headbutt thing).

His DSmash and USmash feel fine, but having the same FSmash as Falcon is a bit lame.

His NAir is meh, his BAir is alright, his UAir should be like the uppercut at the end of his up-B, his DAir is great, and I don't like his FAir; I think it would be better if it was like the Knee, but weaker and not requiring a sweetspot (good, constant knockback).

His FTilt works nicely but his DTilt feels uninspired, and his UTilt is powerful but makes no sense as an UTilt (should be his DTilt if they keep it, but I'd rather see something new there).

I don't remember his throw animations, but none of them are as good as his side-B.

His down-B is alright, but realistically it's too slow to actually work. I love the side-B, but dislike suicide kills so I'd prefer it did something different in air. His up-B sucks in so many ways, and I'd rather see something sort of like DeDeDe's (but less range) where he would leap up in an arc Bear-like or something (I'm thinking of his FSmash) and have a hitbox in front of him.

Ganon needs to be hard to kill, but as it is he's probably the easiest character to combo because he's huge and his aerials are slow, and easy to gimp because his recovery is so weak.

Oh and by the way why did you stop posting in blue?

 

[.CMW.]

His Warlock Punch feels good, but it needs super armor or something. Or maybe they should have given him something that soaks up projectiles like G&W's bucket.

I'd like his jab more if it had no knockback but massive hitstun (something more along the lines of DK's side-B headbutt thing).

His DSmash and USmash feel fine, but having the same FSmash as Falcon is a bit lame.

His NAir is meh, his BAir is alright, his UAir should be like the uppercut at the end of his up-B, his DAir is great, and I don't like his FAir; I think it would be better if it was like the Knee, but weaker and not requiring a sweetspot (good, constant knockback).

His FTilt works nicely but his DTilt feels uninspired, and his UTilt is powerful but makes no sense as an UTilt (should be his DTilt if they keep it, but I'd rather see something new there).

I don't remember his throw animations, but none of them are as good as his side-B.

His down-B is alright, but realistically it's too slow to actually work. I love the side-B, but dislike suicide kills so I'd prefer it did something different in air. His up-B sucks in so many ways, and I'd rather see something sort of like DeDeDe's (but less range) where he would leap up in an arc Bear-like or something (I'm thinking of his FSmash) and have a hitbox in front of him.

Ganon needs to be hard to kill, but as it is he's probably the easiest character to combo because he's huge and his aerials are slow, and easy to gimp because his recovery is so weak.

Oh and by the way why did you stop posting in blue?

Your post is full of many wins. He feels okay on a few of his moves, but the rest are....well....meh. He has SO many games to base moves off of and yet most his moves aren't Ganon like. Oh well. I hope SSB4 can fix poor Ganny. He has got the definite short end of the Brawl stick.

*I stopped in blue to try and mix things up a bit, if you like the blue I can go back *

.CMW.

 

[A2ZOMG]

As far as I'm concerned Ganon is worse (if not the worst) because he's so slow, which makes pretty much every problem Falcon has worse and kills his offstage ability. When whoever was listing terrible recoveries, why wasn't Ganon's on the list? His uppercut definately does not make it better than Falcon's and it is perhaps worse because of it; Falcon's has much better maneuverabilty and horizontal recovery because we don't go into that stupid freefall.

Ganon has better shield tactics due to having faster, longer, and more powerful attacks, and powershielding is not hard to do in Brawl. He has better shield pressure due to his range and ability to actually break shields not to mention Flame Choke, which gets guaranteed COMBOS that do from 16-22% on 95% of the cast. Also he obviously has more kill options. Not to mention WAY better combos. His throws also do more damage (13% F-throw) and one of his throws can actually kill (B-throw at about 165% near the edge). Neither character has amazing throw setups, although Ganon is better at punishing air dodges from a D-throw due to better lingering hitbox options.

Falcon has better recovery in terms of distance although it's still easily edgehogged like Ganon's. As to who has better edgeguarding it's debatable since Ganon has more range and power behind attacks that are just as fast if not faster than Falcon's (not to mention his hitboxes have better duration), but Falcon gets to jump just slightly farther from the stage. Ganon however is more likely to gimp people overall because of his awesome F-tilt which can effectively put people in the position where they can be edgeguarded.

Oh and lastly, Inui blows.

 

[infernovia]

And the fact that all of his moves kill really help. My favorite is dash attack.

 

[Hylian]

And the fact that all of his moves kill really help. My favorite is dash attack.

Windmill of fury much?

 

[Wogrim]

Your post is full of many wins. He feels okay on a few of his moves, but the rest are....well....meh. He has SO many games to base moves off of and yet most his moves aren't Ganon like. Oh well. I hope SSB4 can fix poor Ganny. He has got the definite short end of the Brawl stick.

*I stopped in blue to try and mix things up a bit, if you like the blue I can go back *

.CMW.

No I find that blue too severe. Although silver isn't too different from the white. Use orange or one of the "pastel" colors.

 

[SmashChu]

Combos in brawl?.....
Anyhow,Falcon sucks because of 0 priority,mediocre range,lack of good kill moves(the knee sucks) and especially:No hitstun.
Falcon was a beast in Melee because he could combo the **** out of anyone.And all combos were finished with the epic Knee.But Braw has no hitstun so:
Falcon has nothing.Add horrible matchups versus a lot of the cast(Meta vs Falcon is a sad,sad ****).Yep,Falcon is the worst character.A shame because he was amazing in Melee.

Someone hasn't played as Falcon.

 

[JhMS]

^No,I meant it.The smash attacks all have lag startup and all are very predictable.The Knee is not worth the trouble.Seriously,compare Falcons kill moves to the rest of the cast...
He is in a very bad position.
Add that with almost no priority,hes is going to have a really hard time to hit someone like Marth,Meta,Wario,etc.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

if their telegraphed, yes the smashes will have an even more difficult time killing. when i pick Falcon i usually just Kill w/ Uair or Bair.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

His Warlock Punch feels good, but it needs super armor or something. Or maybe they should have given him something that soaks up projectiles like G&W's bucket.

I'd like his jab more if it had no knockback but massive hitstun (something more along the lines of DK's side-B headbutt thing).

His DSmash and USmash feel fine, but having the same FSmash as Falcon is a bit lame.

His NAir is meh, his BAir is alright, his UAir should be like the uppercut at the end of his up-B, his DAir is great, and I don't like his FAir; I think it would be better if it was like the Knee, but weaker and not requiring a sweetspot (good, constant knockback).

His FTilt works nicely but his DTilt feels uninspired, and his UTilt is powerful but makes no sense as an UTilt (should be his DTilt if they keep it, but I'd rather see something new there).

I don't remember his throw animations, but none of them are as good as his side-B.

His down-B is alright, but realistically it's too slow to actually work. I love the side-B, but dislike suicide kills so I'd prefer it did something different in air. His up-B sucks in so many ways, and I'd rather see something sort of like DeDeDe's (but less range) where he would leap up in an arc Bear-like or something (I'm thinking of his FSmash) and have a hitbox in front of him.

Ganon needs to be hard to kill, but as it is he's probably the easiest character to combo because he's huge and his aerials are slow, and easy to gimp because his recovery is so weak.

Oh and by the way why did you stop posting in blue?

He should use his sword, even if it isn't his twilight sword thing. The grab is good, and evil. Should probaly do some punches to the gut then slam him to the ground. His A ---> should be spike how it looks but, something about it isn't evil enough. xD

 

[UzakiuzuG]

^No,I meant it.The smash attacks all have lag startup and all are very predictable.The Knee is not worth the trouble.Seriously,compare Falcons kill moves to the rest of the cast...
He is in a very bad position.
Add that with almost no priority,hes is going to have a really hard time to hit someone like Marth,Meta,Wario,etc.

Well actually Sonic still doesnt have any good kill moves. I mean once you get them in the 110 then yeah just about anything. He only has up A and his Back Air. Falcon has better kills then most, just my opinion though. Falcons back grab should be like Ness's lmao Oh I kill with up tilt for some reason I can't kill the player sometimes.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

unless you magically land Usmash or do an early edgeguard. peach usually isn't killing untill the mid hundred percents. same w/ Sheik.

 

[UzakiuzuG]

unless you magically land Usmash or do an early edgeguard. peach usually isn't killing untill the mid hundred percents. same w/ Sheik.

Never ever get kills with USmash ever >=o

 

[JigglyZelda003]

peach usmash killing is rare, unreliable, and takes a ton of setup. it also has 3 different hitbox, only 2 have the ability to KO, its mostly fair, or Nair getting the job done for me. at least if CF lands a Smash their going to fly and probably die around 110%

 

[Anthonysmash]

Falcon does have KO power, the knee is still a powerful kill move, it just seems to have more than one sweet-spot, b-air and u-air are reliable killers once close to 180% and it's not hard to get people there either. Falcon can still combo fairly well and moves pretty fast too, combine that with his ability to edge-guard and you get bottom bottom? Hell no, falcon has the potential to be atleast middle imo. When there are characters like Jigglypuff who has absolutely nothing, i don't think Falcon should be bottom.

Let me know how you feel about that^.

 

[GimmieCookie]

Quick tip:

Short-hopping the Raptor Boost has considerably less ending lag than one initiated from the ground.
Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. =D

 

[Anthonysmash]

it's the same concept with Ganondorf's >b

 

[Zeallyx]

Never ever get kills with USmash ever >=o

huh :O
it's like on of THE best/only slightly reliable kill moves falcon has:O

 

[GimmieCookie]

huh :O
it's like on of THE best/only slightly reliable kill moves falcon has:O

You can hyphen smash with it also =D

 

[Zeallyx]

Falcon does have KO power, the knee is still a powerful kill move, it just seems to have more than one sweet-spot, b-air and u-air are reliable killers once close to 180% and it's not hard to get people there either. Falcon can still combo fairly well and moves pretty fast too, combine that with his ability to edge-guard and you get bottom bottom? Hell no, falcon has the potential to be atleast middle imo. When there are characters like Jigglypuff who has absolutely nothing, i don't think Falcon should be bottom.

Let me know how you feel about that^.

Jigglypuff has Wop and (more) priority
Yoshi has priority and some good moves
Samus has projectiles
etc.
Captain falcon has like 0 priority, wich really screws him over. but what screws him over most is the lack of hitstun.
The only character worse than falcon is ganondorf IMO
but we'll see how things turn out

 

[Zeallyx]

Quick tip:

Short-hopping the Raptor Boost has considerably less ending lag than one initiated from the ground.
Just wanted to make sure everyone knew that. =D

only problem with this is, that if you SH raptor boost it won't send the opponent upwards :/

 

[GimmieCookie]

only problem with this is, that if you SH raptor boost it won't send the opponent upwards :/

Well...
I usually SH it as an approach. If they roll dodge, they'll have an angry Falcon just a few char spaces away. I forget wether or not the move initiates on a spot dodge. This tactic is at its laggiest if it does contact though since he "leapfrogs" on hit.

 

[Zeallyx]

Well...
I usually SH it as an approach. If they roll dodge, they'll have an angry Falcon just a few char spaces away. I forget wether or not the move initiates on a spot dodge. This tactic is at its laggiest if it does contact though since he "leapfrogs" on hit.

yeah I didn't mean it is bad
it's great for variety in your game, but all I'm saying that it may be safer to use, but it also has it cons
and yeah the 'leapfrog' sucks XD

 

[HeroMystic]

This is funny, cause I just fought a CF mainer that went to a tournament in Naples the other night. When I fought him, he definitely showed me some stuff that I didn't know CF had, like the Raptor Boost Spike. >_>

Yeah, I still beat the crap out of his CF after that, but he definitely showed me that CF has some potential out there that's untapped. Remember, in Melee, Marth was crap before Ken came, and Captain Falcon was crap until the Epic Knee was discovered.

This is the sole reason why I will never say any character is horrible, because it's too soon to say that. I'd also like to say kudos to all the CF mainers here for enduring this "He's the worst character" stuff. I can tell that in the future he'll come back to his former glory.

 

[Anthonysmash]

Jigglypuff has Wop and (more) priority
Yoshi has priority and some good moves
Samus has projectiles
etc.
Captain falcon has like 0 priority, wich really screws him over. but what screws him over most is the lack of hitstun.
The only character worse than falcon is ganondorf IMO
but we'll see how things turn out

Falcon can easily get past Samus' projectiles by u-airing or even f-airing, the Yoshi match-up I don't know much about but I think you might be right about that one, and Jigglypuff is all aerial which is a bad thing when playing against a good falcon, he was good range on J-puff he can pick her out of that WoP with a u-air or n-air really quick.

The 0 priority thing is probably the biggest lie I've ever heard, you can u-air mk out of f-special (tornado) if you space it right, his u-air has very very good priority as well as his n-air and b-air, i'm gonna try to get some vids up soon so i can show you what I'm talking about.

 

[Zeallyx]

This is funny, cause I just fought a CF mainer that went to a tournament in Naples the other night. When I fought him, he definitely showed me some stuff that I didn't know CF had, like the Raptor Boost Spike. >_>

Yeah, I still beat the crap out of his CF after that, but he definitely showed me that CF has some potential out there that's untapped. Remember, in Melee, Marth was crap before Ken came, and Captain Falcon was crap until the Epic Knee was discovered.

This is the sole reason why I will never say any character is horrible, because it's too soon to say that. I'd also like to say kudos to all the CF mainers here for enduring this "He's the worst character" stuff. I can tell that in the future he'll come back to his former glory.

amen XD
enduring the 'he's the worst character' talk isn't hard, on the contrary it's what drives me to main him
Knee'ing underestimating souls is what brawl is all about for me

 

[Zeallyx]

Falcon can easily get past Samus' projectiles by u-airing or even f-airing, the Yoshi match-up I don't know much about but I think you might be right about that one, and Jigglypuff is all aerial which is a bad thing when playing against a good falcon, he was good range on J-puff he can pick her out of that WoP with a u-air or n-air really quick.

The 0 priority thing is probably the biggest lie I've ever heard, you can u-air mk out of f-special (tornado) if you space it right, his u-air has very very good priority as well as his n-air and b-air, i'm gonna try to get some vids up soon so i can show you what I'm talking about.

falcon doesn't magically get more range when fighting jigglypuff>_> and getting out of Jiggly's Wop isn't as easy as you make it out to be IIRC
but seriously not to be rude or anything, but falcon having almost no priority is like a fact..
Nair doesn't have really good priority..and yeah Uair may have 'good'priority (as in better than his other moves>_>) but spacing it right can be difficult especially against a whorenado

I would believe you without vids man, but unless your copy of brawl is different than mine..I have my doubts..

 

[Anthonysmash]

It shouldn't be that long before i can get something up, I'll PM you when i do.

 

[Zeallyx]

It shouldn't be that long before i can get something up, I'll PM you when i do.

alright cool
but seriously, how can you say Jigglypuff 'has nothing' 0_o
alright, he/she's not the best character..but..but arials and occasionally rest..
and samus, yeah I agree it's not that hard of a matchup for falcon (as I read earlier, like 60-40) but still, Zair and (super) missles are quite a pain..

It's not like I'm doubting you and your videos, but these are like..facts..?
I know falcon has potential or else I wouldn't main him, but still.. Samus' Zair

 

[JigglyZelda003]

CF: any air attack
JP: pound/ Nair(cannonball)

that solves the range problem. lol

and yeah vids aren't that neccessary. only a noob would take on CF beleiving hes just gonna utter fail and be 3 stocked cause the said noob picked MK.....

 

[Zeallyx]

CF: any air attack
JP: pound/ Nair(cannonball)

that solves the range problem. lol

and yeah vids aren't that neccessary. only a noob would take on CF beleiving hes just gonna utter fail and be 3 stocked cause the said noob picked MK.....

I'm sorry, I think it's just late, but I don't understand..who's side are you on..

 

[Anthonysmash]

=DDD

and Samus' z-air has ridiculous range

 

[Zeallyx]

=DDD

and Samus' z-air has ridiculous range

now I'm confused..are you agreeing with me..?

 

[UzakiuzuG]

huh :O
it's like on of THE best/only slightly reliable kill moves falcon has:O

When you brawled me did you notice I only used Dsmash most of the time Usmash rare

 

[MarTh-]

His aerials are a lot slower, especially his dair. Multiple air dodges allowed in brawl & perfect shielding screwed his knee. If you want to master falcon work on abusing his bair.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i main JP. and when he said jP has a range problem again CF and such i had to put something to defend JP.

anyway im on the side thats says "yeah CF aint so great, but he can make life very unplesant for you if the player knows what their doing." does that explain better