Guide How to Hatch a Healthy Yoshi: A Group Project - Who wants it?

[Mr. game and watch]

A loss != a loss




I don't get it.

 

[Yikarur]

if you lose ti MK it's like "come on -.- MK ugh Q.Q etc"

but with MK gone the only one for us to blame for losing is ourself.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I'm just glad to lose a bad MU.

 

[Z'zgashi]

If you guys seriously think that MK gone makes it easier for us than it does most everyone above us, you guys are insane. MK gone helps EVERYONE, just it helps a lot of other characters just as much or more than us. The only reason for us to be placing consistently higher would be due to the MK mains all having to go through the learning process on new chars and due to some leaving the scene, aside from that, there shouldnt be any significant changes in our placings. Thinking that this is god send for us is just downright wrong. We're still a character that has problems and bad match ups, and is only an average or slightly below average character.

 

[Sharky]

meh, it's a regional thing methinks.

 

[Delta-cod]

I think there'll be a lot of warios too, but I also think we go even with him.
Dat infinite.


Also Delta your Java refrence is off, != means does not equal IIRC.

That's the point.

A loss != a loss




I don't get it.

A loss doesn't equal a loss.

A loss at a -3 isn't the same thing as a loss at a -2.

If you guys seriously think that MK gone makes it easier for us than it does most everyone above us, you guys are insane. MK gone helps EVERYONE, just it helps a lot of other characters just as much or more than us. The only reason for us to be placing consistently higher would be due to the MK mains all having to go through the learning process on new chars and due to some leaving the scene, aside from that, there shouldnt be any significant changes in our placings. Thinking that this is god send for us is just downright wrong. We're still a character that has problems and bad match ups, and is only an average or slightly below average character.

You're not thinking about this well enough.

MK was the most popular character in tournament play.

MK was our WORST match up, by far.

We have a mix of 0s, -1s, -2s, and even a +1 among the rest of top tier, who are now much more likely to be encountered.

Encountering a mix of +1 to -2 match ups is a significant difference from having to fight the same -3 match up several times in a tournament.

Even when the MKs catch up with their new characters, we will still be able to beat them because they won't have as dumb an advantage over us. MK players we barely lost to will now have a high chance of being beaten by us.

We don't really have a problem with any of the other mid tiers that are going to be springing up, while they potentially have similar or WORSE problems with other top tiers, although they had previously had better MK match ups to help them outplace us in a MK infested metagame.

 

[~Firefly~]

I'm with Sharky on this one. Not every region has MKs that play the MU competently. =P

 

[Z'zgashi]

So basically if we outplay everyone we can win? So it's all about skill. A loss IF BOTH PEOPLE ARE OF EQUAL SKILL LEVELS should most of the time equal a loss. If you're winning all of your losses, you're just a better player. MK was so bad for us, that it made skill level not as much of a factor, but saying that we will be doing better is just saying that we are outplaying the other people or are better.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

I feel like these are jiggly boards.

I think MK gone adds more depth to the game and effects the entire brawl metagame.

That being said, it could very well affect our placing in tournament and on tier.

And definantly not in a negative way.

 

[Delta-cod]

So basically if we outplay everyone we can win? So it's all about skill. A loss IF BOTH PEOPLE ARE OF EQUAL SKILL LEVELS should most of the time equal a loss. If you're winning all of your losses, you're just a better player. MK was so bad for us, that it made skill level not as much of a factor, but saying that we will be doing better is just saying that we are outplaying the other people or are better.

But you see, the only players I would unconditionally lose to before were the MKs. Because MK overrided my skill level too much. I win a ridiculous amount of disadvantaged match ups every tournament to make it to my usual curse spots before getting blocked by a MK that gayed me to death. Now that won't happen.

I don't get your point. I was saying that we should be placing better because MK was pretty much the only MU that would take us out regardless of our skill (at least in my case), so with him gone, placings should rise. We actually have no reason to lose now except for our own inability to play.

I mean really, who else is getting a good enough rise that would outshine our own potential rise. Plenty of characters in our own tier that we've been competing with have had BETTER MUs with MK than us, and those players have been pulling out similar or only slightly better results than us. Our main obstacle is gone. We have no -3s now. This is HUGE.

 

[Z'zgashi]

But you see, the only players I would unconditionally lose to before were the MKs. Because MK overrided my skill level too much. I win a ridiculous amount of disadvantaged match ups every tournament to make it to my usual curse spots before getting blocked by a MK that gayed me to death. Now that won't happen.

Like I said, that just means you're a better player skill wise, if the people playing those characters where on your level, they'd more often that not still be beating you because their character has the advantage. If you reread my post, you'll see that I did in fact say MK was making skill less of a factor, which in your second paragraph you restated for me. MY POINT is that if your literal only problem before was MK, then your skill level is high enough to the point that you're better than everyone else you're playing, and therefor will be winning due to your skill and not an increase in Yoshi's viablility.

 

[Scatz]

Hey, Hey, Hey.

You all are thinking too much.

Stop it.

 

[Sharky]

Like I said, that just means you're a better player skill wise, if the people playing those characters where on your level, they'd more often that not still be beating you because their character has the advantage. If you reread my post, you'll see that I did in fact say MK was making skill less of a factor, which in your second paragraph you restated for me. MY POINT is that if your literal only problem before was MK, then your skill level is high enough to the point that you're better than everyone else you're playing, and therefor will be winning due to your skill and not an increase in Yoshi's viablility.

he'll be winning against MORE players now, however, because he won't have to play any MKs. that's his point...

I also think that, given a large tourney setting or a region where mk is a problem, yoshi will benefit more so than other characters. In terms of the overall metagame, this means yoshi will go up.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Fine, you're all right. Yoshi will move up. One spot. Just like how Diddy will move one spot from #2 to #1.

 

[Scatz]

I now demand all arguing to cease.

None of this matters anyways. Do work and the **** will show for it. No need to argue whether it's beneficial or not to Yoshi.

Unless someone comes in saying Yoshi is gonna be worse than Link or something. >__>

 

[~Firefly~]

Scatz laying down the law, as always~

 

[Yikarur]

well.
instead of socialing here or making this a FAQ we could somehow try to perfect this guide here.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Or make a new guide.
And put all of Toomais pics in it.

I'm not very expierienced with yoshi but I'd be willing to help in any way I could!

 

[Sharky]

I've been asking for assistance in writing key additions of this for ages. HINT HINT POLTERGUST HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT A;LSJDRUWEDAS;LFKAJDSRPFQIOWUJEADSFJAWOPJIRQWIOEJGFADAKLVJN;LZDNVJ;KLASJDF

jerk.

 

[Airborne]

Lemme get on dat Egg Lay Guide this weekend since I have better ways to explain it now.

 

[Delta-cod]

I've been asking for assistance in writing key additions of this for ages. HINT HINT POLTERGUST HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT A;LSJDRUWEDAS;LFKAJDSRPFQIOWUJEADSFJAWOPJIRQWIOEJGFADAKLVJN;LZDNVJ;KLASJDF

jerk.

What was Polt supposed to be working on again? He's been MIA for way too long now.

 

[Nordal]

Can yoshi still be used in low tier tournaments? I'm starting to miss my red dino.

 

[Yikarur]

depends on the tourney I think, in general probably not.
in germany I mostly can :D:D

 

[Z'zgashi]

Not unless they include low-mid tiers as well. Yoshi left low tier so a basic low tier tournament shouldn't have him available.

 

[SlayerZaxy]

I'm having trouble with my DR. I use a crappy clone GameCube controller, pelican or something, and I use tap jump because that's the way I've always played and I can't break the habit. I've tried. I don't use the stick to do DR however, because it doesn't feel like jumping. I can do it in 1/2 mode in training using x x a but when I got to 2/3 I get it around 10% of the time. I've done it once at full speed and I can't get it to slide when I want it to. Whenever I do it it just does a little stomp on the ground and some clouds come out. I'm pretty sure I have to tilt back after the first jump, and sometimes he slides back, but I need some tips on how to do this better. I've put in around 3 hours into this with no progress.

 

[Sharky]

We highly recommend using what we call the "beast set-up" for implementing DR. This control scheme basically switches b and x so b is jump and x is special. You slide down from Y to B to C-Stick.

 

[SlayerZaxy]

We highly recommend using what we call the "beast set-up" for implementing DR. This control scheme basically switches b and x so b is jump and x is special. You slide down from Y to B to C-Stick.

How do you hold the controller then? What fingers hit the C-stick and which hit the x and b buttons?

 

[Delta-cod]

You actually end up sliding your thumb from Y to B to C-stick. It's one smooth motion. You hold the controller normally.

 

[SlayerZaxy]

You actually end up sliding your thumb from Y to B to C-stick. It's one smooth motion. You hold the controller normally.

Wouldn't Y B A be faster?

 

[Delta-cod]

No, because B is below the A button, so you'd have to move your thumb back up to the A button in order to press it. Sliding your thumb straight down from Y > B > C stick is the best method.

 

[Sharky]

it's a straight line from y to b to c-stick. Your thumb slides the whole way in one smooth motion, no actual pressing of the buttons.

 

[SlayerZaxy]

I tried the Y B C set up and it is much faster than my old technique. I can pull it off sometimes at 1x speed, but I don't know the timing for it. I mainly just slide my thumb up and down until it happens, so realistically it isn't a viable technique for me. Also, i'm so used to using B for specials I sometimes die because I can't remember to hit my shoulder button fast enough. I know it's nooby but I've kind of given up on DR.

 

[Sharky]

nonononono just keep playing with the setup for a few days, trust me you'll get used to the switch. It also makes djc egglays easier, you'll find. As for the DR, it's not something you'll be able to pick up in a matter of a couple days, just keep at it!

 

[Scatz]

If people could learn harder techniques in a matter of hours, then there'd be no point to technical skill.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Been playing since the game came out and trying the YBC set up for DR since Scatz had his old video up. I can get it down sometimes in matches but my most used tech is the ledge DR.

 

[SlayerZaxy]

nonononono just keep playing with the setup for a few days, trust me you'll get used to the switch. It also makes djc egglays easier, you'll find. As for the DR, it's not something you'll be able to pick up in a matter of a couple days, just keep at it!

I use tap jump so that might be part of the problem. For some reason every time I try to wave bounce an egg lay in the opposite direction I always do an egg roll and end up dying. This has been a big deterrent for me that keeps me from using egg lay a lot.

 

[~Firefly~]

Tap jump has nothing to do with it. I use tap jump, and I almost never do egg rolls instead of wavebounced egg lays now. It's just a matter of practicing it enough.

 

[Delta-cod]

Tap Jump is an inferior species!

 

[SlayerZaxy]

I stopped using tap jump and after around 5 games it felt completely natural. Now I feel like I can do most of the stuff I see in Yoshi videos and am pretty all around confident in my Yoshi. The only thing I need a bit of help with is DR I can't do it at all!

 

[Scatz]

I'll probably remake my DR tutorial in the nearby future. Look for it in the video thread in a few weeks.