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I am a dumbdumb

E

Eon-Rider

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
2
Before you guys decide to close this or start flaming me, I realise I'm a newbie to the forums but I really need to prove my friend wrong in an aspect of this game. The title is what it is because my friend wouldn't give me permission to post a conversation of ours without me putting the title as it is now. I hope, even though this is one of my first posts, that I'm not being rude and treating this whole community like an answering machine.

Also, yes, I have read the rules and I hardly see any reason why this topic should be closed anyhow.

This question may sound stupid but can someone please define what a "tournament" is, in the game's case?

I was veteran Melee player a few years back but recently got out of it until Brawl was released in Australia about a week ago.

This is the conversation we had and I censored some myself.

(7:10 PM) Friend: what the ****
(7:10 PM) Friend: how did G+W get at the top?
(7:10 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: lol
(7:10 PM) Friend: how did MK get there?
(7:10 PM) Friend: wtf
(7:10 PM) Friend: that is a **** *** tier list
(7:10 PM) Friend: all the top tier suck
(7:10 PM) Friend: the very high is fairly accurate
(7:10 PM) Friend: except olimar
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: MrG&W has the best attack in the game...
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: His bair owns.
(7:11 PM) Friend: key?
(7:11 PM) Friend: key is okay, but it's ONE move
(7:11 PM) Friend: but the rest is seriously ****
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: long ranged, disjointed hitbox, decent damage, go knockback
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: er
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: no
(7:11 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: it's the turtle
(7:12 PM) Friend: turtle is long ranged?
(7:12 PM) Friend: since when?
(7:12 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: Since when isn't it?
(7:12 PM) Friend: since when is it?
(7:12 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: well...
(7:12 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: high that average
(7:12 PM) Friend: imho, that's a crap tier list
(7:12 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: lol
(7:12 PM) Friend: I'm making my own
(7:13 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: That's not possible though.
(7:13 PM) Friend: It's possible.
(7:13 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: The person made the list through tournament results and every other aspect like moveset, frame invincibility etc.
(7:14 PM) Friend: I'll make it from play experience, perhaps the best way to make it from
(7:14 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: If you look, you'll see the person's has previous versions of it and has been making new versions after every few tourny results...
(7:14 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: but...
(7:14 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: tier lists are mainly tourney based anyway...
(7:15 PM) Friend: well, they don't HAVE to be tourny based
(7:15 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: but they are...
(7:15 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: go type tier list into google
(7:15 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: WHat comes up?
(7:15 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: smashbros results...
(7:15 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: they've been around that long
(7:15 PM) Friend: okay
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: The first link comes from wikia...
(7:16 PM) Friend: but they don't HAVE to be
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: go look at the first line
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: but THEY are
(7:16 PM) Friend: so I CAN base mine on non tourny stuff
(7:16 PM) Friend: so I WILL
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: you can't argue against that
(7:16 PM) Friend: I can actually
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: Then yours isn't considered a tier list.
(7:16 PM) Friend: I can argue, doesn't mean I'll win any points though
(7:16 PM) Friend: Yes it is, if I put a heading, TIER LIST.
(7:16 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: yours is merely a ranking list of characters
(7:16 PM) Friend: merely?
(7:17 PM) Friend: ranking list of characters and tier list is virtually the same thing
(7:17 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: yes, but excluding what each takes into account
(7:18 PM) Friend: but in the end, both of their purposes is to list characters in an order of how useful/good they are
(7:19 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list
(7:19 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: I bet that page has been there for years now.
(7:19 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: The tier list does not say anything about any single matchup. For example, if two players are equally matched in skill, and one uses Fox and the other uses Pichu, the tier list alone can not be used to predict the outcome of the match accurately. This is because the tier list looks at a character's overall potential and effectiveness, and individual matchups can be soft or hard counters that affect but do not entirely determine a character's ranking. For instance, in the aforementioned example, if the Fox vs. Pichu matchup was dramatically tipped in Pichu's favor, but Pichu suffered from poor matchups against every other character in the game, it would mean that Pichu beats Fox, but Pichu is still worse than Fox.
(7:19 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: A tier list is based on tournaments.
(7:20 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: Therefore, a list based on everything =/= tier list
(7:20 PM) Friend: I AM basing on a tournament
(7:20 PM) Friend: a tournament between me and the cpu's
(7:20 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: a list based on everything = list of everything
(7:20 PM) Friend: so therefore it CAN be called a tier list
(7:20 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: You know that's not what they mean by tournament.
(7:20 PM) Friend: Prove it
(7:20 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: you really want me to?
(7:21 PM) Friend: yes please
(7:21 PM) Friend: you can't, you know
(7:21 PM) Friend: you can't prove what I know or don't know
(7:21 PM) Friend: it's impossible
(7:21 PM) Friend: unless you have telepathy
(7:21 PM) Friend: which you don't
(7:21 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: Do you give me permission to copy this conversation onto the biggest Smash community ever made?
(7:22 PM) Friend: hmm, which smash community?
(7:22 PM) Friend: >_>
(7:23 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: http://www.smashboards.com/
(7:23 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: If you've never heard of that place, you're an idiot. >_>
(7:23 PM) Friend: Only if you put as the title, I am a dumbdumb
(7:23 PM) Friend: then you can post it
(7:23 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: okay fine
(7:23 PM) Friend: kk?
(7:23 PM) Friend: sure
(7:23 PM) Friend: and
(7:23 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: cool
(7:23 PM) Friend: one more condition
(7:23 PM) ?a?E?o?n?--R?i?d: okay
(7:23 PM) Friend: white out the names
(7:23 PM) Friend: please
(7:23 PM) Friend: =)
Click to expand...
The tier list mentioned was a fan created tier list that was based on some tournament results that came from this community itself.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to getting an answer. ;)
 
E

Eon-Rider

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
2
I did I not make my post clear enough? ._.

Can you possibly define what a "tournament" in a tier list's case is?
 
Pluvia's other account

Pluvia's other account

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
3,174
Location
No Internet?!?
A tier list is a ranking of each character's metagame, based on tournament settings. It is an indicator of how each character is expected to perform, under tournament settings, in relation to the rest of the cast. Thus, tiers measure the potential of each character based on all currently known techniques and strategies that have been shown to be useful in tournaments.
Click to expand...
I still don't understand what you mean, but maybe that should help.
 
Mic_128

Mic_128

Wake up...
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
46,183
Location
Steam
Tier lists are roughly, the list of characters from best to worst, so it's understandable that tournament results affect this in a way.

Tournaments themselves are usually 3-4 stock matches with no items, in a best of three set. The 'official' list of rules and stages for tournaments have yet to be worked out by the brains in the smash Back Room, but they're working on it.

I'd also suggest you check out the Aussie room and find a meet up near ya. We're a good sort, and the more the better :p
 
The Dinkoman

The Dinkoman

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,277
Location
Back!
I cant beleive I read that whole post....

A tourney is where you go to a area to play for money or anything else. In other words its taking competitive to whole new level.
 
C

clace

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
302
Your friend is a friggin' idiot. 'Nuff said. I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but if you want to know what a Tournament is, It's just the sort of thing people who play SSBB or any other game go to to win money. It's not held at someone's house, either, or something silly like that, It's a big thing and It'll be held in a venue, I think.

I'm not even sure if that was your question, and If It was, I hope I helped. If It wasn't, sorry for treating you like a ******** chimpanzee with a mountain of excrement drooling off his forehead and landing on the female chimpanzee who he THOUGHT he banged last night, but was actually just dry humping. Her face.

P.S: Pluvia is right. You people who are complaining that you READ something are WORSE than the chimpanzee. Your the female chimpanzee with **** all over her face and a sore nose.

P.S.S: Actually, I'm sorry for calling your friend an idiot. He is probably intelligent in real life and a genuinely nice person, but the way he implies he knows everything and yet he is so wrong is plain aggravating.
 
C

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
???, If you don't like tier lists, don't worry, they change, and most PT mainers say that PT is low because few people will work to main him in the first place.
 
Zap657

Zap657

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
272
"How did G+W get at the top?"
"How did MK get there?"
"the very high is fairly accurate except olimar"

These prove that your friend knows jack about making tier lists.
 
D

Danteh

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
34
Location
Barcelona, Spain
(7:20 PM) Friend: I AM basing on a tournament
(7:20 PM) Friend: a tournament between me and the cpu's

Best line ever

If I didn't have snake in my sig I would put it there omg

10lvl9cpus
 
GimmeAnFSharp

GimmeAnFSharp

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
291
Location
Boston
There's a lot of... well, BORDERLINE terminology. You're using words that mean SLIGHTLY different things in different situations and that by itself is causing a frick-load of confusion. For example, both of the following statements are true:

GW's turtle is NOT long-range...
...but it has a long range. Make sense?

Also, while his logic is annoying as all hell, he's actually always (well... almost) right. He can do whatever he wants, however he wants, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks of it. It's his game. Who cares if his tier list is based off of different methods (lawl vs. CPU's)? We have agreed on our own idea of what a "tier list" is, and if he simply chooses not to jump on that bandwagon, so be it. Again, it's his game- he can choose to single himself out.

So in that sense, no, you cannot prove to him what a tier list is. It's technically whatever he wants it to be, regardless of how different it is from our idea of what a tier list has come to be.
 
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