i need ice climbers help

[JettythatSamus]

HUGQ has been helping me with my technique a lot and so I thought I'd post this to get some samus vs. ICs hints and tips from others

http://youtube.com/watch?v=koyKWX8y4kk


*ahem* Marspostplzkthx

 

[Mars-]

Well I watched the first match, I'm just going to judge you from that.

I noticed there where a lot of time when you backed up to wait for something(Idk what though), when instead you could have been hitting nana. This is an essential, because the more you let nana stay by popo, the more of a chance of you dying. If you watch the match, you will see what I mean about backing up when you could have been hitting nana.

I know at the end you were shooting more missiles, I personally don't like spamming missiles, but if you want to, that is a good thing to do because missiles completely destroy any approach from ICs.

I know this will take a bit more prediction, but try not to downsmash shields, which most characters do a lot vs samus because well, samus can't do **** against shield grabbing. Now for ICs, this is even more of a problem since they can then get you like 50% damage and/or kill you.

 

[JettythatSamus]

i always felt dumb hitting nana because popo doesn't take any damage, but i'll give it a shot

 

[Mars-]

i always felt dumb hitting nana because popo doesn't take any damage, but i'll give it a shot

It's not dumb, just keep them seperated.

 

[Takumaru]

I really like how you used bombs, those and PC missiles slow them down which is good for samus. The key idea when fighting ICs with samus is to slow them down. Slow them down, and poke at their shield: SLOWPOKE! Ok that was corny but since I've never played against ICs myself (only IC player in the state...) I can only tell you what I don't like people doing.

Pretty much what you want to do is control the match as best you can by inhibiting their movement. Say you drop a bomb, instead of doing a WD into the bomb they jump over and you either angle a ftilt up, utilt, of Nair. Little things like that piss of IC players. Samus also is one of the lucky characters than can get out of or survive grab combos easier than others.

A few things about the stage and recovery. When you sweetspot the ledge either use the grapple to do so or try to grab it from as far away as possible to avoid some of their mean little smash guards. Also, avoid FD like the plague unless you're falco.

 

[Paradigm]

This is my absolute best matchup, huzzah.

First, don't dash attack when either of them is on the ground. It can be used to intercept them coming from the air, depending on the IC's preferences for their air game, but not well against on the ground. Not only are IC players *extremely* shield-grab happy, but there's usually a better option anyways. Wavedash-ftilt is much, much safer in this matchup. Keep it spaced right and if they shield it there's no way they can get a grab.

If there's two of them, don't grab. There are some Samus' who do grab in this match up to some degree of success, but they're silly. If you do, immediately dthrow in the hopes that you can hit the one you didn't grab with the one you did. But, honestly, just don't. If it's just Popo, however, considering how much they're usually glued to the ground grabbing can be quite feasible.

You're spending a fair bit of time in the air. IC's can move on the ground far, far faster then you can in the air - they'll usually be able to run under you and jump uair or bair, or just hit you as your landing with a smash, or grab... they have lots of options. It's not a good place to be. If you do go in the air, get back down asap. Don't let them get under you.

When recovering, if the IC is throwing ice blocks predictably, you can actually airdodge through them to grapple. Some IC's are really trixie, though, and will make this very hard. You opponent didn't seem to do this, so you could have airdodged through. You can also fair (and uair?) through them quite well if you get the hang of it. Or, as you approach the iceblock stream try to time a bombjump to go through them. IC iceblock spam can be annoying, but Samus should be able to get through it fairly well if that's all they do.

You opponent didn't do this much, but many IC's will desync during the match with a sidestep or roll - this is an excellent time to punish them with a charge shot if you've got one.

If you're sufficiently far away, spamming is fine. As they come in close, either chase your last missile and switch to offense or keep off of anything laggy. Don't keep spamming as they're in close, and don't try to jump over them to go to the other side. These are both times they'll punish you.

As Mars said, once you hit them, follow it up - don't run back away. Gotta be offensive when the opportunity presents itself.

Your dtilt and dsmash are your best moves to separate them with. I saw you use this some... use it more. This works great to catch their wavedash approach if you call it or time it properly. Follow with a bair or uair if you can, this will likely knock one of them away. Once this happens, keep following one of them up (keeping in mind Popo will try to stop you, so don't do anything to laggy to Nana if Popo's close enough).

If you can get them to both be on opposite sides of you, fire a (missile-canceled) missile at Nana, who will be dumb enough that you should be able to do with a reasonably high success. Then deal with Popo. If the opportunity presents itself, fire at Nana again. Just keep her back with projectiles and stay between her and Popo. Usually the Popo will be either really aggressive about getting back to Nana, which you can punish, or lax, in which case you can usually finish Nana off.

Not that you seemed to be having trouble with this, but figured no harm in mentioning: edgeguarding - keep in mind Popo can't call Nana to up-B if they're too far apart, as well as if Nana's just been hit. When they're far enough out, throw stuff at Nana - she'll be too dumb to dodge it without Popo's intervention, which will leave them *both* vulnerable. While the opportunities may not be plentiful, spiking IC's is far, far more effective than it is in most match ups, because of how horrible Popo's virtual recover is without Nana.

I'm sure there's more I can't think of at the moment, getting mighty tired, but I hope this helps. In summary:

(1) Don't dash attack if one is on the ground, if at all.
(2) Minimize time in the air, don't let them get under you.
(3) Don't be so completely defensive - if they get to close, don't run away or keep spamming, but chase a missile or stick with a ground game.
(4) Keep them seperated.

 

[JettythatSamus]

Thanks, I will practice all of those things. My dash attack is something that I do because I get so nervous and forget to cc tilt or smash, but I'll pay more attention and stop doing it.

 

[W.Jr]

missle that B***h

 

[Children_of_Bodom]

I personally find that missiles are your best friend for this match-up.

 

[Deleted member]

Holy crap, that second match was awesome! You put up a great fight but Chok did some awesome stuff like when he powersheilded your Charged shot right after recovering.

I can't really offer any advice, I can't even Wavedash or missile cancel that well.

Just remember to avoid dash attacking into their shields, even after a missile and be on the look out for powershielded projectiles, I have trouble with that too.

 

[Bosh]

how do you do a powerful missile in air then ground like i saw in dphanna's vid on youtube?

 

[Paradigm]

how do you do a powerful missile in air then ground like i saw in dphanna's vid on youtube?

Phanna's got a number of videos, but I think I know what you're talking about.

Basically, you just (full) jump, and immediately fire a missile. As soon as the animation ends, you fire another and it should come out in time before you cancel it by landing.

There's nothing crazy special about it, just being fast on the first missile and timing the second right after you're done firing the first.

There's tricks to fire missiles even faster than that on stages with platforms, but unless I'm mistaken that's the fastest way to fire them on, say, Final Destination.