Guide Ice Climber Match Up Guide

[choknater]

azn lep nice chart except i think ic's have an advantage on doc, mario, and ylink. ic's ground mobility dominates them, and simple stuff like wd fsmash, when properly spaced, beats out pretty much everything they have. ylink's spamming is easy to stop if you just stay on top of him, and 1 or 2 wd's covers the space to prevent it pretty easily.

doc i'm not sure, he MIGHT have an advantage but maybe i just find that matchup really easy. it might just be sheer experience. bob$ doc is very easy even though he plays pretty much as smart as he possibly can. and for me, mario is just an easier version of doc.

they only thing they got on ic's is good throw combos and a quick dsmash. other than that, ic's should have every reason to have the edge.

 

[Binx]

I don't really get how up-smash, a move that comes out in 14 frames, can outspeed Falco's 7 frames of vulnerability. There's also frames of shield hit-stun where you can't move so it's even worse. I've never seen it used by anyone and don't buy it, but I'll give it a shot anyway since trying it can't hurt.

Also, I'm pretty sure that a technically sound Falco won't be grabbable while pillaring no matter what.

There are frames to grab, also you start your upsmash after the shine not after the jump, as soon as you are out of shield stun they jump it takes 5 frames, then they have to fall and start their move, I've upsmashed Falco out of pillers with Fox, Falco and the Marios, I am pretty sure ICs usmash is about as fast as those ones and I know it has more priority.

You have to accurately predict the drill timing though, if you get it wrong you get shine comboed. Not saying it isn't a little bit risky but its one of the only options short of rolling away.

 

[Nintendude]

There are frames to grab, also you start your upsmash after the shine not after the jump, as soon as you are out of shield stun they jump it takes 5 frames, then they have to fall and start their move, I've upsmashed Falco out of pillers with Fox, Falco and the Marios, I am pretty sure ICs usmash is about as fast as those ones and I know it has more priority.

You have to accurately predict the drill timing though, if you get it wrong you get shine comboed. Not saying it isn't a little bit risky but its one of the only options short of rolling away.

Fox and Falco's up-smashes come out twice as fast as Ice Climbers', and Mario's is pretty close to that too. It may be very narrowly possible but it seems like something that's way too risky, and I've never seen an Ice Climbers player use it.

To me rolling away seems like the best option in this situation but the problem is that nothing seems to come out of it except you risked getting hit and taking like 30+ damage.

I guess a more general question I'd ask is what exactly you do to catch Falco with an attack, because once Falco gets hit it's easy to deal on a ton of damage before he regains his rhythm.

 

[AzN_Lep]

chok - thanks for the input, yeah you're probably right about some of that stuff. I've never played an experienced Mario, but basing it loosely off of Doc the match doesn't quite tilt in IC favor. Then again this is off of Ken's Doc I guess. The only 2 good young links I've played are Caveman and Chu, so that's kinda why I felt the way I did. I'll go ahead and change Mario and Y.Link a bit.

 

[choknater]

ah i see, those are some good players. i'm jealous, you play really good people :3

 

[Binx]

Umm you could Up B out of shield and then have popo block and hopefully while Falco is drilling Nana into the ground you can grab? just an Idea I doubt it would work but if works at least and no matter what falco would be recoverying from his 7 frame l cancel lag at the same time you started your 7 frame grab which would beat his 3 frame shine. So in theory if its fast enough to ub b and keep shielding then its a guaranteed grab unless they are going to go behind you.

 

[Nintendude]

Umm you could Up B out of shield and then have popo block and hopefully while Falco is drilling Nana into the ground you can grab? just an Idea I doubt it would work but its fast at least and no matter what falco would be recoverying from his 7 frame l cancel lag at the same time you started your 7 frame grab which would beat his 3 frame shine.

Well, up-B out of shield probably CAN work, but is it worth the risk of missing? If you miss you are screwed, and hitting with the up-B doesn't really do much except give Falco some damage, since you can't recover in time.

Also, the thing about grabbing doesn't work cause of shield hit-stun. I don't really get why you are encouraging me to grab when you stated in the guide in the first post not to try to shield grab Falco. Yes, grabbing can work if the Falco is sloppy, but it is really risky since once you get shined you are going to take some hits.

Trying to attack Falco when he's attacking Nana is something that should be doable, but I find myself getting hurt whenever I try it. When I get in range I just eat a shine before I can get my attack out, but that's probably a lot of my own fault. Though, it's probably also just good gameplay from Falco.

I'm not trying to sound harsh or anything and I really do appreciate tips. I'm just questioning them

 

[Binx]

No problem the thing you are focusing on though is the shield stun and the problem with that is that you are focusing on a properly timed drill which wont happen if he hits nana, basically if you up b and he drills nana then he will suffer hit lag from hitting her, falco and her will be frozen in time for a few frames when he drills your shield it will hit the top of your shield causing his L cancel to happen at the same time you grab, you should be out of shield stun when he hits the ground meaning if timed to the frame your grab should beat his shine. This is all theory though I havn't tried it. I am not neccesarily telling you to grab recklessly I am trying to brainstorm ways to get guaranteed grabs when the situations arise.

Someone should try these out and let me know, I personally think usmash out of shield would work but I havn't tried it recently since the people around here that play falco dont really pillar me much anymore because I am good at staying out from underneath falco, I get laser grabbed a lot and they nair past my shield but I rarely get drilled now days.

If falco times his drill properly to prevent a shield grab he will hit the middle of your shield which means when he is L canceling his lag you are still in about 3 frames of shield stun, so if he does a perfectly timed shine (not difficult with practice) then his shine will connect a frame or 2 before a grab could get him, if he hits the top of your shield, especially an angled one then he hits the ground while you are out of shield stun and a frame perfect grab will outprioritize his frame perfect shine. Remember that the drill only has 1 hit box so you aren't locked in for multiple hits like with Fox's drill your shield stun is gone when he touches the ground if he doesnt do it right.

If someone with an AR would break this down for me that would be awesome but I am 90% sure I am right.

 

[choknater]

try not to think about Falco too much when you play against him. take in all the facts and don't mess up and you should win... IC wins because he is easy to kill, and despite what Falco does, he is STILL easy to kill.

this should be your focus when playing against falco: MAKE SURE HE DIES when you grab him.

if he is still alive after you have grabbed him, you have messed up. grab him again.

i realize his speed is difficult to deal with but as lep said, just keep your cool because falco is under a lot more stress than you are.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Well here's a beta for the IC Character Match-Up Chart. Once it's stable we should put it on the first page.

 

[choknater]

wow that is so sweet!

however.... "beta" indeed lol. i have some large qualms with the placement of falcon and zelda.

ice climbers should actually be beating zelda pretty easily, should they not? there's nothing about her that would put the matchup in her favor except for the ic's expecting sheik and not playing right. her movement is pretty terrible and she is easy to kill AND edgeguard, and ic's should be able to be aggressive against her the whole match without stopping. her kicks, fsmash, dsmash, throws, tap-A, and dash attack are all very good and she can be quite an unexpectedly effective character when played defensively... but ic's ground speed should overcome her the same way she gets beaten by fox, falcon, and luigi. i hope that sheds a little light on the matchup.... however, you're THE azn_lep, so you might know more than me? who knows.

as for falcon... i know the reverse dair in inescapable but the ******* is d*mn hard to grab. i don't know, but it could be all those losses i've had to silentspectre that makes it so mind-boggling for me on how to beat him. perhaps if i wobbled or did more reverse dair instead of doing combos... but still. he's hard to grab and he's fast and a great character overall. i could understand why you would say IC's have an advantage, but i don't see how he could be on the same level as DK or pichu, or below ness and the links.

your top part is really good... but i consider ganon and jiggly fairly even. but now i see why they are up their... despite the matches being pretty close, they ARE very difficult to figure out.

also, i already explained why i'd put doc and mario lower...

anyways, just my opinions ^_^

that chart looks so sweet.

edit: wow, b@stard is censored?
edit2: cool, 3700 posts.

 

[Binx]

I think Peach Marth Fox Falcon Ganon Jiggs Luigi and then continue your list as is with Zelda being above Roy.

IMO

 

[choknater]

reasons why?

 

[Nintendude]

Binx a lot of the stuff you are saying seems to only possibly work within a window of a few frames. Even if it DOES work, it's probably too risky to attempt unless you have robot precision like m2k.

try not to think about Falco too much when you play against him. take in all the facts and don't mess up and you should win... IC wins because he is easy to kill, and despite what Falco does, he is STILL easy to kill.

this should be your focus when playing against falco: MAKE SURE HE DIES when you grab him.

if he is still alive after you have grabbed him, you have messed up. grab him again.

i realize his speed is difficult to deal with but as lep said, just keep your cool because falco is under a lot more stress than you are.

You say to make sure he dies when you grab him, but you have to realize this isn't always possible when the Falco is good at smash DIing out of the chaingrab. The options are basically attempt to chaingrab or do a smash. If he attempts to smash DI the chaingrab and you smash, he's probably screwed, and if he attempts to DI the smash and you try to chaingrab he just gets grabbed again, but if any of the opposite cases happen Falco is basically free. It becomes a guessing game and guessing games never always work in your favor.

Also, I know Falco dies really easily but it's getting the initial hits off that's the problem. He's like impossible to approach and it's really hard to work your shield game well on him.

 

[choknater]

grab combos!

i'm not saying cg or wobble for the guaranteed death, i'm just saying keep your composure so that you can pull off a 0-death, whatever it is (cg, wobble, smash, grab combo.) mix it up so that falco has to do the guessing game, not you.

it also helps if you try to become the aggressor to scare him into not pressuring you. it works against even the best of falcos.

 

[Binx]

reasons why?

Peach - Obviously the hardest match up, float cancel slaps grabs and downsmashes make this match rediculous.

Marth - Retreating Fairs, stationary fairs and dtilts are fast and safe, he edgeguards Ice Climbers SUPER easily has a huge grab range and has invincability when he throws, Marth runs at you grabs forward throws then ken combos nana off the stage, has a great recovery and then solo popo is annahilated. I only wish I were exagerating how easy this is for him.

Fox - a 3 frame move that will instanty kill nana if she is hit, fox is the hardest character to grab and he has an awesome forward throw against ice climbers as well, he can attack your shield with impunity, he out maneuvers you and outside of the damage he can do except for damaging grabs, he has every single advantage except recovery and once he has hit nana once and comboed her to her death he has a better recovery than you as well. Technical foxs **** ice climbers, I have played silent wolf and lesser technical foxs to vouch for this.

Falcon - Knees and forward b are insanely difficult to deal with, forward b often pushes me too far to punish, if it hits its a guaranteed knee, if nana is kneed she is probably dead, if she is stomped she is definitely dead, Falcon owns sopo. Also he is really **** hard to grab.

Ganon - Kills nana in 2 hits and outranges you, this is severely easier than fox for me however because he is at least easy to combo chain throw and edgeguard.

Jiggs - She is floaty but f-smash seem to wreck her pretty hard I think this match is fairly winnable, even in ICs favor.

Luigi - Floaty so hard to do good grab combos against, he is pretty slow in the air though so it makes it easier to predict his aerials and punish him with f-smash, also on the ground you can simply shield most of his approaches.

Binx a lot of the stuff you are saying seems to only possibly work within a window of a few frames. Even if it DOES work, it's probably too risky to attempt unless you have robot precision like m2k.



You say to make sure he dies when you grab him, but you have to realize this isn't always possible when the Falco is good at smash DIing out of the chaingrab. The options are basically attempt to chaingrab or do a smash. If he attempts to smash DI the chaingrab and you smash, he's probably screwed, and if he attempts to DI the smash and you try to chaingrab he just gets grabbed again, but if any of the opposite cases happen Falco is basically free. It becomes a guessing game and guessing games never always work in your favor.

Also, I know Falco dies really easily but it's getting the initial hits off that's the problem. He's like impossible to approach and it's really hard to work your shield game well on him.

Any tactic that can be mastered should be, it isn't any more risky than rolling, if falco predicts your role the best case scenario is that he wittles down your shield some more and shield stabs you with the drill anyways.

You can reverse dair falco if you expect him to smash DI away this will put him right in front of you for an easy regrab, also someone mentioned just fsmashing him, also uthrow to dash attack and tech chasing works very well on falco.

You can try learning to do a dashing powershield this is almost always a guaranteed grab at medium distance. You can jumping blizzard into a laser and nana will keep going trading damage with him, this also forces him to act and you can take advantage of it.

Basically I try and stick to the ground because all of his approaches either outprioritize your aerials through speed/position/lasering you out of them or dont do enough to him afterwards to make it worth the risk of being aerialed out of them. If you manage a grab he should die, and you should be able to manage a grab because he doesn't run as fast as you, waveshields and upsmashes are your friend, just keep coming at him sooner or later he will be cornered and once he acts you react and he loses, just keep your cool, play against him like you would Marth vs Mario, pressure him towards an edge with presense and being careful, once he jumps or rolls you get a free aerial or grab, if he jumps strait up to shoot a laser then wavedash forward and fsmash he will be off the edge for the price of 3% damage.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Fox doesn't "****" ICs. You just couldn't grab me, because you need more experience.

 

[Nintendude]

grab combos!

i'm not saying cg or wobble for the guaranteed death, i'm just saying keep your composure so that you can pull off a 0-death, whatever it is (cg, wobble, smash, grab combo.) mix it up so that falco has to do the guessing game, not you.

it also helps if you try to become the aggressor to scare him into not pressuring you. it works against even the best of falcos.

Well if there's Wobbling allowed throw out everything else and just Wobble him lol. In that case grab does mean death in almost all cases.

What can you mix it up with vs. Falco without wobbling? You got the Dair chaingrab and smashes. You either hope he DIs the chaingrab or the smash wrong. Another possibility is doing up-throw and either smashing or not-smashing. If you smash you hope he was trying to DI the throw away, but still, it's like a guessing game. Both players do an equal amount of guessing because both players have 2 options basically. Ice Climbers can try to chaingrab or smash. Falco can DI towards you or away. You can try down-throws and tech-chasing but that's even more of a guessing game than the other options.

Any tactic that can be mastered should be, it isn't any more risky than rolling, if falco predicts your role the best case scenario is that he wittles down your shield some more and shield stabs you with the drill anyways.

I don't really believe in that philosophy. It's technically possible to master really precise kinds of moves like perfect powershielding yet nobody does. I'm not a super technical player and don't intend on working hard on that as I think my tech skill is already decent, and I'm not the type to sit in my room and practice tech skill. I'd like to focus on being smarter and having a better overall strategy.

Also, I believe it's a lot riskier than rolling. Since the Falco is likely going to be doing a drill or something while you are rolling he can't just instantly run over to you and punish. If you look at all sorts of videos you see the top players rolling all over the place to get out of Falco's storm and they don't get punished most of the time.

You can reverse dair falco if you expect him to smash DI away this will put him right in front of you for an easy regrab, also someone mentioned just fsmashing him, also uthrow to dash attack and tech chasing works very well on falco.

You can reverse Dair Falco? I think I tried that a long time ago and he would always go forward since he isn't tall enough. Basically his head doesn't stick up high enough until he's on the right side of the Dair. I'll try it more though next time I play.

You can try learning to do a dashing powershield this is almost always a guaranteed grab at medium distance. You can jumping blizzard into a laser and nana will keep going trading damage with him, this also forces him to act and you can take advantage of it.

Is it just me, or is it A LOT harder to powershield with Ice Climbers than it is with someone like Samus? I just can't powershield with them, and accidental ones happen a lot more rarely than with other characters.

Basically I try and stick to the ground because all of his approaches either outprioritize your aerials through speed/position/lasering you out of them or dont do enough to him afterwards to make it worth the risk of being aerialed out of them. If you manage a grab he should die, and you should be able to manage a grab because he doesn't run as fast as you, waveshields and upsmashes are your friend, just keep coming at him sooner or later he will be cornered and once he acts you react and he loses, just keep your cool, play against him like you would Marth vs Mario, pressure him towards an edge with presense and being careful, once he jumps or rolls you get a free aerial or grab, if he jumps strait up to shoot a laser then wavedash forward and fsmash he will be off the edge for the price of 3% damage.

If you corner Falco, I think he can just attempt to approach you in which case you just gotta get out of the way or shield, as you can't outprioritize his approach without a well-placed Smash, which a good Falco wouldn't really just run into. Ice Climbers just seem too sluggish to do all these things well. They have good ground mobility, but that's about it as far as speed goes.

 

[Binx]

there is a space about 2 character lengths away from falco where he can't hit you with a short hopped drill, so basically if you manage to stay in that area he has to full jump to hit you, if he runs forward you can just do a really quick dash attack or you can upsmash, no matter what you have to predict but like others keep saying he is under more pressure than you are, if you grab him he dies.

Silent Wolf - I've played other Fox's too and if they are very technical at all its very very hard to grab them because shine keeps you pretty grab safe, Ice Climbers grab range isn't further than the shine like Marth's is.

 

[Nintendude]

there is a space about 2 character lengths away from falco where he can't hit you with a short hopped drill, so basically if you manage to stay in that area he has to full jump to hit you, if he runs forward you can just do a really quick dash attack or you can upsmash, no matter what you have to predict but like others keep saying he is under more pressure than you are, if you grab him he dies.

Silent Wolf - I've played other Fox's too and if they are very technical at all its very very hard to grab them because shine keeps you pretty grab safe, Ice Climbers grab range isn't further than the shine like Marth's is.

Falco can still dash short-hop drill without any real speed disadvantage, right? His dash short-hop covers a lot of distance.

Though, I think this may have made be realize one of my problems. I never really find a spot just outside of Falco's approach range and try to stay in it. I think if I focus on that more it'll be easier to manipulate him.

 

[Twin_A]

what if falco spams lazers while that distance away and waits for you to make the move? you move, get stunned, and then innevetably combo'd. what are ways around that besides the obvious ice blocks?

 

[Pookiez]

umm a SH blizzard would work in that situation u get hit and nana blizzards him which sets him up for a smash or possibly a grab.

 

[Binx]

Falco can still dash short-hop drill without any real speed disadvantage, right? His dash short-hop covers a lot of distance.

Though, I think this may have made be realize one of my problems. I never really find a spot just outside of Falco's approach range and try to stay in it. I think if I focus on that more it'll be easier to manipulate him.

Yes but I notice if I can get in that area I can see him jump and upsmash to intercept, I am a big fan of upsmash to guard from aerial attacks.

As for the laser part if you are within range of a short wavedash smash you can wavedash into the laser, popo will become stunned, nana will finish the wavedash and then hit your c-stick to nail him in the head, if you wavedash the moment he jumps and do a dsmash it should be fast enough to hit without him being able to take any defensive action, if he does then at least he is in shield stun while popo is coming to make the rest of his stock misserable.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Yeah hmm... Zelda is placed too high, but she definitely is a big problem when played correctly. Kicks tear apart Nana, and when it's just Popo Zelda can switch to Sheik, although that's Sheik I'm still gonna consider it Zelda. Even Chu won't use his ICs against Mows Zelda. Play a few friendlies and it becomes apparent that the match is tough than you might think. As for Falcon, I guess that's just a match I do really well in. I don't think I've ever played a Falcon that I couldn't beat or at least go even with. I see where a lot of IC players can have trouble with Falcon though, with the knees and stomps and all. I'll probably move him up a bit.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

what if i were to be fighting, for example, a bowser user with my ice climbers... i come to consult this thread... and i find no information at all... (other than in the chart, saying that bowser is "cake")

please help me with my ice climbers vs the bowser user.

 

[Binx]

K gimpy for the phantom you who uses Ice Climbers you just need to watch out for fortress, dont let bowser fortress you, cause its fast, if you grab him there are really oddly timed chain throws you can do I am pretty sure, on second though, I dont know how to beat bowser either, I just grab him a lot because hes slow and easy to grab.

 

[choknater]

gimpy: for ice climbers you want to spam fire breath because fire is super effective against ice, and you will win because it is SUPER EFFECTIVE! and since there are two of them, it's like they are double ice element, so it will be 4x effective. try it, believe me! flame breath does like 80% damage against them in seconds.

 

[Kyu Puff]

There should be a gap between Peach and the rest. Peach is nearly unwinnable if the Peach player know what he or she is doing; Samus, Luigi, and so on are just hard. There should also be a larger gap between Marth and anything below that. Ganon, Jiggs, and Fox are all unfavorable, but not that tilted.

Why is there such a huge leap between Mario and Doc? Pillspam is easier to avoid than fireballs, and Mario's f-smash is good. The only big difference is Doc's f-air, but it is a predictable move and can't kill until very high percentages.

Also, how are stage advantages to be taken into account? For example, Marth is one of the hardest match-ups on a stage like YS, but much more manageable on FD. The list would be different when playing on YS than it would on FD.

 

[LuCKy]

quick qestion umm how hard is it to chain grab marth? i mean because i never really tried it on marth and well i couldnt do it today in tourney but no matter how hard it is for ic's to beat a marth that knows how to play ic's its kinda even if the marth dosnt know how to fight ic's because even without chain grabiing my ic's were pretty crazy for there first tourney match in soo long lol i got that marth pretty good

 

[AzN_Lep]

hahaha Lucky who was this "Marth?" IC can chaingrab Marth is he doesn't DI it properly either with d-air or reverse d-air. Most Marths will DI and jump. Although you can still manage it once or twice if you get them by surprise. A good alternative is the reverse d-air followed by an f-smash. This'll catch him DI'ing with your f-smash which leads to early KO's.

 

[LuCKy]

hahaha Lucky who was this "Marth?" IC can chaingrab Marth is he doesn't DI it properly either with d-air or reverse d-air. Most Marths will DI and jump. Although you can still manage it once or twice if you get them by surprise. A good alternative is the reverse d-air followed by an f-smash. This'll catch him DI'ing with your f-smash which leads to early KO's.

hmm sounds cool i never tried that that thanks pat but is it not good to try and chain grab marth? because i didnt get it like one time lol but i never tried at very low percents i mean he was always like 30 to 40 percent and i failed but wont blizzrad d thro f smash do more damage? i can understand the reverse dair smash killing at higher percents easy because it can mess up di but ill play around with it a little and see what i can learn

 

[Binx]

If the Marth is fast they can wiggle out of blizzard though, I have played some amazingly fast wigglers
(like t0mmy) and against his Marth I just grab throw something as fast I can, kind of annoying actually cause I like blizzing people in grabs but oh wells.

But yeah I dont have a reliable chaingrab for Marth, the forward throw dair one looks kind of promising but I have yet to do it against a DIing opponent so who knows how effective it will end up being. All in all though you can still do plenty to Marth from a grab outside of wobbling it just isnt a chainthrow, then against there aren't many unescapable chain throws anyways so throwing one out when it is unexpected is always good.

 

[Binx]

In response to my last post it sounds dumb, almost all of our chain throws are escapable with proper smash DI and in many cases DI with a correctly timed double jump, so if you do a chain throw try not to do many repetitions against good players because they will get out, a good rule of thumb is to chain throw until they escape twice and then you know that they can.

 

[Barbeque]

A little while back you mentioned that the matchup between ics vs link was pretty easy because CG's are easy on him, but I usually find that a good link player can DI out of it (i'm using the method wear nana short hops and does a d-air right wear she is standing). Should I be using a different method of chain grabbing? Thats pretty much the only thing that I need help with against link, most of the time I'm 4 stocking them .

 

[::FalcoFTW::]

Anyone want to help me out here? I just started using Ice Climbers and I was wondering how to combat Shieks u-air? I just can't get out of her **** juggling game

 

[AzN_Lep]

You probably wanna bring this question into the "Ask IC players about IC thread,"

Sheik's u-airs eh? Well the first thing your going to wanna avoid is getting in an aerial position above Sheik. Usually if this happens you're at a high percent and you're probably going to die, but if you find you self putting yourself above Sheik at lower percent unnecessarily, stop it. D-air is NOT that good. There's really no reason to approach her in the air from above.

Now if you happen to find yourself in this position you have two options: avoid it or try to beat it. If you choose the latter of the two, you can try to fast fall and d-air, throwing off his timing for the u-air; or you could try moving to either side and f/b-air. Beating it out probably isn't your best option though. To avoid it you're going to want to stop tumbling in the air asap. Then you can either jump, air dodge, or a combination of the two. Try and maneuver to a platform or ledge for safety. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[::FalcoFTW::]

You probably wanna bring this question into the "Ask IC players about IC thread,"

Sheik's u-airs eh? Well the first thing your going to wanna avoid is getting in an aerial position above Sheik. Usually if this happens you're at a high percent and you're probably going to die, but if you find you self putting yourself above Sheik at lower percent unnecessarily, stop it. D-air is NOT that good. There's really no reason to approach her in the air from above.

Now if you happen to find yourself in this position you have two options: avoid it or try to beat it. If you choose the latter of the two, you can try to fast fall and d-air, throwing off his timing for the u-air; or you could try moving to either side and f/b-air. Beating it out probably isn't your best option though. To avoid it you're going to want to stop tumbling in the air asap. Then you can either jump, air dodge, or a combination of the two. Try and maneuver to a platform or ledge for safety. Hope that helps a bit.

Thanks. Yeah, I usually get hit up there when i'm at higher percentages, but you know...I just want to squeeze as much damage that i can deal from the stock.

 

[exarch]

I didn't see anything in the marth section about desynching. It's probably more useful in the marth matchup than in any other high tier/common match for the icys.

 

[Binx]

exarch, video proof please, cause every time I desynch in the match outside of a combo it just means Nana dies faster.

 

[Wobbles]

Well, I've been using pivot f-smash as a de-sync lately, and I'm landing a lot of good hits and traps with it. By smashing well out of range, I encourage my opponent to come in closer. I then have Nana charge a smash or execute a blizzard, and retreat. A lot of times she connects with her move, but even if she doesn't, I remain out of range of hits and can wavedash in to punish their abuse of Nana.

It's kind of anecdotal, but I do land a lot of Nana-smashes and blizzards, and it often catches the opponent DI'ing badly. I also tend to have a Nana with high percent while I remain at a very low percent.

I recommend trying it out; at the very least, it's a lot of fun.