Is it possible Sakurai is actually saving strong first party additions?

[UserKev]

My theory is, Sakurai has enough left in him for one more game after Ultimate, considering he doesn't want to let go the series. Now that I think about it, some examples I know from the top of my head, had they been added prior to Ultimate, would have been overkill.

What's to say if highly requested characters are ignored but have a strong legacy with Nintendo, Sakurai already have them listed for the next instalment, already have stated to not expect the roster to remain as large as Ultimate's.

These are candidate examples I know from the top of my head:

Dixie Kong - DK
Tingle - Legend of Zelda
Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun

Third party additions:

Banjo-Kazooie
Geno

I can also see Sakurai announcing his retirement and leaving Smash to echo its beginning, something I personally want. My argument for adding Tingle, he's hated in the West? Smash is a Japanese IP. If Tingle becomes playable, we'll still buy the game. He'd actually be the perfect "Off" pick we didn't see coming. The West not purchasing Smash due to one character isn't of Sakurai's concern.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

My theory is, Sakurai has enough left in him for one more game after Ultimate, considering he doesn't want to let go the series. Now that I think about it, some examples I know from the top of my head, had they been added prior to Ultimate, would have been overkill.

What's to say if highly requested characters are ignored but have a strong legacy with Nintendo, Sakurai already have them listed for the next instalment, already have stated to not expect the roster to remain as large as Ultimate's.

These are candidate examples I know from the top of my head:

Dixie Kong - DK
Tingle - Legend of Zelda
Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun

Third party additions:

Banjo-Kazooie
Geno

I can also see Sakurai announcing his retirement and leaving Smash to echo its beginning, something I personally want. My argument for adding Tingle, he's hated in the West? Smash is a Japanese IP. If Tingle becomes playable, we'll still buy the game. He'd actually be the perfect "Off" pick we didn't see coming. The West not purchasing Smash due to one character isn't of Sakurai's concern.

I think Waluigi, Bandana Dee, and Ashley are prime contenders for the next Smash. And yes, I think we still got several great first party characters that would be as hyped as any 3rd party characters they could use for the next game.

Ones that come to mind to me are:

Krystal
Dixie Kong
Skull Kid
Isaac
Bandana Dee
Waluigi
Ashley
Paper Mario
Captain Toad
Cranky Kong
Funky Kong (Echo)

There more characters I can't think at the moment off the top of my head. (I didn't put Porky on this list because I think he is going to be in the Season Pass.)

 

[Quillion]

It's kinda confirmed since we know that Spring Man and Rex would be good candidates, but their games were finalized too late in the game.

Dixie would be prime semi-echo material, but I think K. Rool overshadowed her a bit too much and benefited from being a full character.

Zelda one-shots and recurring secondaries have to deal with Sakurai's apparent opposition to them past Sheik. Waluigi likely deals with a similar prejudice against spinoff characters.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It's kinda confirmed since we know that Spring Man and Rex would be good candidates, but their games were finalized too late in the game.

Dixie would be prime semi-echo material, but I think K. Rool overshadowed her a bit too much and benefited from being a full character.

Zelda one-shots and recurring secondaries have to deal with Sakurai's apparent opposition to them past Sheik. Waluigi likely deals with a similar prejudice against spinoff characters.

I think Rex & Pyra will be unrelavent by the next Smash so I think they're out unless they're in a Season Pass 2 or 3. But Spring Man might get in if there is another Arms game before than.

 

[Quillion]

I think Rex & Pyra will be unrelavent by the next Smash so I think they're out unless they're in a Season Pass 2 or 3. But Spring Man might get in if there is another Arms game before than.

Personally, I don't want them to turn Xenoblade into the next Pokémon or Fire Emblem in terms of shoehorning the "recent" characters. That said, Elma and Rex are both proven to be icons, so both are good.

We don't know how Nintendo is going to handle ARMS since they abandoned the game after its last update while Splatoon 2 has continuing updates past its original stop date (December of last year). A hypothetical sequel will make or break the franchise, though it did sell pretty well (>2m) despite so many things running against it: fighting game, not following the Capcom or Tekken schools of thought, new IP and all.

 

[UserKev]

It's kinda confirmed since we know that Spring Man and Rex would be good candidates, but their games were finalized too late in the game.

Dixie would be prime semi-echo material, but I think K. Rool overshadowed her a bit too much and benefited from being a full character.

Zelda one-shots and recurring secondaries have to deal with Sakurai's apparent opposition to them past Sheik. Waluigi likely deals with a similar prejudice against spinoff characters.

I didn't add Waluigi for that reason. Its to the point where, Waluigi has sort of become controversial. For Dixie Kong by the next instalment, I believe Sakurai will give her the honor of a mostly unique move set. You could give Dixie Kong heavy gum usage, bubble gum pop forward Smash, gum trap via stepping upon the ground, yell with her voice that causes stuns, and hair jabs.

 

[Xelrog]

You could give Dixie Kong heavy gum usage, bubble gum pop forward Smash, gum trap via stepping upon the ground, yell with her voice that causes stuns, and hair jabs.

I don't know about any recent games, but she didn't do any of that in DKC2 or 3.

 

[Quillion]

I didn't add Waluigi for that reason. Its to the point where, Waluigi has sort of become controversial. For Dixie Kong by the next instalment, I believe Sakurai will give her the honor of a mostly unique move set. You could give Dixie Kong heavy gum usage, bubble gum pop forward Smash, gum trap via stepping upon the ground, yell with her voice that causes stuns, and hair jabs.

All of that could coexist in a semi-echo moveset.

Except the yell thing. Where does that come from?

 

[UserKev]

All of that could coexist in a semi-echo moveset.

Except the yell thing. Where does that come from?

Its completely made up. That's how you make Dixie Kong unique. It'd be like a typical scream as if Dixie Kong is pretending to act as a jump scare-r.

 

[Crystanium]

Possible? Sure, anything is possible. Probable? Probably not.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I don't think we would get another game with all we have and more.
I think a new game, sans a new 'deluxe' edition, would be a reboot.

 

[Quillion]

Its completely made up. That's how you make Dixie Kong unique. It'd be like a typical scream as if Dixie Kong is pretending to act as a jump scare-r.

How about no. Smash is long past the days where made up movesets (generic punches/kicks aside) were acceptable. This is why I'd rather have her as a semi-echo.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun

Sorry, but they're assist trophies. That's a very hard deconfirmation. I know how much people love to fantasize, but it's never gonna happen.

Honestly I think first parties are possible and would be hype, but as I keep saying the first DLC wave is most likely going to be all guest fighters, and if and when we get a wave 2 of DLC that's when we can expect first parties.

 

[UserKev]

Sorry, but they're assist trophies. That's a very hard deconfirmation. I know how much people love to fantasize, but it's never gonna happen.

Honestly I think first parties are possible and would be hype, but as I keep saying the first DLC wave is most likely going to be all guest fighters, and if and when we get a wave 2 of DLC that's when we can expect first parties.

They ARE assist trophies now but not for the next Smash or reboot. Sakurai is potentially saving them.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

They ARE assist trophies now but not for the next Smash or reboot. Sakurai is potentially saving them.

Ah, I see. I misread the first post, sorry. I thought you meant they could be DLC.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Kinda begs the thought; are there characters that absolutely couldn't be added as DLC for this game and would NEED to have placement within the next game? Thus, seeing as this game would have the "Ultimate" title, could it be seen as a bit of a slap in the face to those fans who wouldn't have gotten their characters alongside all of this game's content?
(Of course, the goal of the game couldn't have been to please everybody in that sense of course, it was just the ___ is here thing with most returning stages, and some characters would just plain miss their shot practically completely by being of a certain time period relevancy for Smash, such as the assumed Plusle & Minum for Brawl with their 3rd gen relevancy or perhaps Spring Man and Rex for this Smash. Not to mention that'd be kinda ungrateful of this game's accomplishments in its contents lol)

 

[Captain Shades]

No, I don’t believe Sakurai is saving anyone for a next game. Sakurai seems to have very strict visions about his series, so while we may want the characters you suggested, he clearly doesn’t.

To start, he firmly believes that Zelda should be 3 characters only. No matter how much fans request the big three (Tingle, Impa, and Skull Kid), it seems that he will not change his vision and will only have the main 3 characters and different iterations of them. It sucks, but the rules seem to be established to the point where it seems less like he’s saving them, and more that he’s personally excluding them.

Moving on, Waluigi will never happen. Sakurai has proven numerous times that he hates Waluigi, even making a jerky Miiverse post to tell fans that he isn’t good enough to be a fighter. Waluigi is excluded out of spite and a high level of disdain for the character, not because he’s saving him.

As for Geno, it won’t happen. This one doesn’t actually have anything to do with Sakurai, but rather the fact that Square Enix is impossible to work with. We barely got Cloud back, so I doubt Square will ever let Geno join without crazy stipulations.

DK and WarioWare are a very interesting story, but I think we have to face facts. Sakurai doesn’t seem to care enough about these two to ever add another character. Had K Rool not won the ballot, we would have had another character instead and DK would be left with two reps. Sakurai, and by extension Japanese Nintendo studios don’t really place much value in the western developed IPs, DK is usually seen as nothing more than an extension of Mario than its own individual franchise, so many think that it’s cast is pointless to represent. Even when discussing K Rool, Sakurai was genuinely surprised that a DK character of all things won the ballot. WarioWare and DK are unfairly placed into the Mario category, so many developers don’t seem to care about their universes and characters, which is why they are so poorly represented in Smash.

I really don’t believe that Bandana Dee is being saved. Sakurai’s portrayal of Kirby content in Smash is heavily based around his games, in which BD is not a part of. He seems very content in having only 3 Kirby characters because his games only had 3. A majority of non-spirit Kirby content is heavily based around Sakurai titles, so I doubt Sakurai is saving BD and am in more of the mindset that he is purposely excluding newer content.

As for Isaac, I got nothing. I just think he’s just not cared for by Sakurai outside of a simple assist. Maybe Sakurai just really dislikes Camelot creations or something else is going on behind the scenes, but I just don’t see Isaac happening.

Banjo & Kazooie are the most interesting case as we don’t know the situation. If Microsoft gets a character, which will probably be Steve, than I can believe he’s saving them, but as of right now this is a huge company dispute.

 

[UserKev]

No, I don’t believe Sakurai is saving anyone for a next game. Sakurai seems to have very strict visions about his series, so while we may want the characters you suggested, he clearly doesn’t.

To start, he firmly believes that Zelda should be 3 characters only. No matter how much fans request the big three (Tingle, Impa, and Skull Kid), it seems that he will not change his vision and will only have the main 3 characters and different iterations of them. It sucks, but the rules seem to be established to the point where it seems less like he’s saving them, and more that he’s personally excluding them.

Moving on, Waluigi will never happen. Sakurai has proven numerous times that he hates Waluigi, even making a jerky Miiverse post to tell fans that he isn’t good enough to be a fighter. Waluigi is excluded out of spite and a high level of disdain for the character, not because he’s saving him.

As for Geno, it won’t happen. This one doesn’t actually have anything to do with Sakurai, but rather the fact that Square Enix is impossible to work with. We barely got Cloud back, so I doubt Square will ever let Geno join without crazy stipulations.

DK and WarioWare are a very interesting story, but I think we have to face facts. Sakurai doesn’t seem to care enough about these two to ever add another character. Had K Rool not won the ballot, we would have had another character instead and DK would be left with two reps. Sakurai, and by extension Japanese Nintendo studios don’t really place much value in the western developed IPs, DK is usually seen as nothing more than an extension of Mario than its own individual franchise, so many think that it’s cast is pointless to represent. Even when discussing K Rool, Sakurai was genuinely surprised that a DK character of all things won the ballot. WarioWare and DK are unfairly placed into the Mario category, so many developers don’t seem to care about their universes and characters, which is why they are so poorly represented in Smash.

I really don’t believe that Bandana Dee is being saved. Sakurai’s portrayal of Kirby content in Smash is heavily based around his games, in which BD is not a part of. He seems very content in having only 3 Kirby characters because his games only had 3. A majority of non-spirit Kirby content is heavily based around Sakurai titles, so I doubt Sakurai is saving BD and am in more of the mindset that he is purposely excluding newer content.

As for Isaac, I got nothing. I just think he’s just not cared for by Sakurai outside of a simple assist. Maybe Sakurai just really dislikes Camelot creations or something else is going on behind the scenes, but I just don’t see Isaac happening.

Banjo & Kazooie are the most interesting case as we don’t know the situation. If Microsoft gets a character, which will probably be Steve, than I can believe he’s saving them, but as of right now this is a huge company dispute.

I believe in Sakurai's case, this will end up the case all along. You can assume Ridley definitely broke all the barriers as far as first party. Skull Kid is up there by this point. He's a legacy character. If Dixie Kong and Skull Kid remain with a heavy following, both are legitimately the easiest bets.

 

[Captain Shades]

I believe in Sakurai's case, this will end up the case all along. You can assume Ridley definitely broke all the barriers as far as first party. Skull Kid is up there by this point. He's a legacy character. If Dixie Kong and Skull Kid remain with a heavy following, both are legitimately the easiest bets.

It’s not really about Legacy, it’s more about Sakurai’s preferences, which will be a hurdle until he leaves. Ridley’s issue was just moveset like many other fighters. Sakurai talked time and time again about wanting to include Ridley.

Ridley did not break all barriers, he just showed that Sakurai found a way to get creative.

With DK characters, it seems like Sakurai has no idea there is a fan base even though K Rool was pretty much up there with Ridley. The only reason he figured it out was because of a ballot, so I think it’s safe to say that he wouldn’t voluntarily put Dixie in or probably would be clueless unless there is another ballot.

Both Skull Kid and Dixie have been popular since Brawl yet he never even seems to acknowledge them outside of telling fans that Skull Kid is an assist over Miiverse. There is no shoe in status for these two as what will most likely happen is that DK will stay at 3 characters and Zelda will get a fourth iteration of Link at best. Other characters are the same way, BD would be a shoe-in under any other director, but Sakurai will probably still insist that Kirby only has 3 characters and then proceeds to make the billionth Super Star stage. The only real shoe-ins are new Pokémon and FE characters, maybe Mario.

Honestly thinking about the next game’s roster should they build off of Ultimate, it will most likely contain
1. A new Pokémon
2. A new FE character
3. A new Xenoblade character
4. Spring Man
5. Octolings
6. LABO
7. New 3rd party
8. New 3rd party
9. Probably another Mario character that isn’t Waluigi or Paper Mario
10. Retro character

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sorry, but they're assist trophies. That's a very hard deconfirmation. I know how much people love to fantasize, but it's never gonna happen.

Honestly I think first parties are possible and would be hype, but as I keep saying the first DLC wave is most likely going to be all guest fighters, and if and when we get a wave 2 of DLC that's when we can expect first parties.

No one has ever successfully been able to convince me that an assist trophy has merit as a deconfirmation.
Sure, I may be biased, but that's hard to even consider after the posts I just read above mine.

 

[PF9]

I think Ultimate is it for Sakurai.

That's not to say whoever replaces him won't add these requested characters.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm sure the next game will add some requested character that doesn't make it into Ultimate through DLC. I can say that's pretty well a given. Waluigi or an Isaac are a great way to entice Nintendo fans back into another game that aren't too difficult to get. Plus if they start making cuts again, they're going to need some new players.

But intentionally holding back characters? Nah, that goes against everything Sakurai does as a developer. Any character that didn't make it into Ultimate just wasn't a priority for Sakurai and that's it. No big decision made about the future, just limited resources for new characters and specific choices made with regard to which characters got in.

 

[Idon]

Unlikely.

Sakurai does what he wants to the best of his ability in each game, making compromises like clones and/or echoes if he has to. Never once has he ever even come close to saying "We wanted to put him in, but we lacked the resources to represent him accurately and thus put him in later."

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We don't know how Nintendo is going to handle ARMS since they abandoned the game after its last update

Actually, they added an extra update to ARMS because it sold that well.

Springtron wasn't going to be in the game as anything other then an extra boss, but healthy sales convinced the dev team to spend extra time to add him as a character.

ARMS did pretty well, and I hardly call a game being finished as abandoned. Gotta remember, this is the Mario Kart team, so the fact that they got the go ahead to go past deadlines and work on extra stuff is pretty telling that ARMS did well financially.

I expect ARMS 2 eventually.

 

[osby]

Unlikely.

Sakurai does what he wants to the best of his ability in each game, making compromises like clones and/or echoes if he has to. Never once has he ever even come close to saying "We wanted to put him in, but we lacked the resources to represent him accurately and thus put him in later."

He kinda did exactly that for Wario.

 

[Idon]

He kinda did exactly that for Wario.

Well ****, that's actually the first I heard about that.

Well, then I revise my statement, he rarely does that, and he is even less likely to do that for:
"Dixie Kong - DK
Tingle - Legend of Zelda
Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun"

Especially Tingle.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Wonder what a list of characters assumed impossible for Ultimate DLC would look like. Maybe assist trophies, Mii costume characters, etc?

 

[UserKev]

I'm sure the next game will add some requested character that doesn't make it into Ultimate through DLC. I can say that's pretty well a given. Waluigi or an Isaac are a great way to entice Nintendo fans back into another game that aren't too difficult to get. Plus if they start making cuts again, they're going to need some new players.

But intentionally holding back characters? Nah, that goes against everything Sakurai does as a developer. Any character that didn't make it into Ultimate just wasn't a priority for Sakurai and that's it. No big decision made about the future, just limited resources for new characters and specific choices made with regard to which characters got in.

Don't exemplify Waluigi, that'd a jinx it. Haha He's already established etc wise. Waluigi is also one of those last resort characters, people not seem to noticed. There's no intrigue behind his inclusion.

Again also, geez. Some of you sound like me. Sakurai is known to change his thought process. You can't predict that future, bruh.

Well ****, that's actually the first I heard about that.

Well, then I revise my statement, he rarely does that, and he is even less likely to do that for:
"Dixie Kong - DK
Tingle - Legend of Zelda
Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun"

Especially Tingle.

You can't predict Sakurai.

 

[Door Key Pig]

What if a big twist character no one expected... Was a character you'd never think they could sell AS DLC? Maybe "Brave" is certainly a brave choice to put one of them out on the market!

 

[pkivaness]

Sorry, but they're assist trophies. That's a very hard deconfirmation. I know how much people love to fantasize, but it's never gonna happen.

Honestly I think first parties are possible and would be hype, but as I keep saying the first DLC wave is most likely going to be all guest fighters, and if and when we get a wave 2 of DLC that's when we can expect first parties.

That's a lot of characters lol

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Don't exemplify Waluigi, that'd a jinx it. Haha He's already established etc wise. Waluigi is also one of those last resort characters, people not seem to noticed. There's no intrigue behind his inclusion.

Again also, geez. Some of you sound like me. Sakurai is known to change his thought process. You can't predict that future, bruh.


You can't predict Sakurai.

Well, you’re also making an argument about the present in that he actively decided not to include characters for a future Smash.

No we can’t predict what Sakurai will do in the future, but we don’t have anything resembling evidence that he held anybody back or decided to hold off on characters. All evidence of the current inclusions seems pretty well laid out right now since I believe he talked about every newcomer in Ultimate. We know those reasons and he distinctly highlighted the fact he couldn’t include many newcomers because of Everyone is Here being really the primary focus of the game.

Yeah, he could include other characters later down the line, but pretty much every bit of evidence we have points to him deciding on characters in the vacuum of their own Smash game and making decisions based on a myriad of reasons including personal taster, fan demand, etc.

The whole Sakurai is unpredictable **** can get out of hand real fast and just be a giant tactic to try to invalidate arguments though (and pretty much was behind the whole support for Grinch actually), so I’d be weary of using that particular way of framing that argument though.

 

[UserKev]

Well, you’re also making an argument about the present in that he actively decided not to include characters for a future Smash.

No we can’t predict what Sakurai will do in the future, but we don’t have anything resembling evidence that he held anybody back or decided to hold off on characters. All evidence of the current inclusions seems pretty well laid out right now since I believe he talked about every newcomer in Ultimate. We know those reasons and he distinctly highlighted the fact he couldn’t include many newcomers because of Everyone is Here being really the primary focus of the game.

Yeah, he could include other characters later down the line, but pretty much every bit of evidence we have points to him deciding on characters in the vacuum of their own Smash game and making decisions based on a myriad of reasons including personal taster, fan demand, etc.

The whole Sakurai is unpredictable **** can get out of hand real fast and just be a giant tactic to try to invalidate arguments though (and pretty much was behind the whole support for Grinch actually), so I’d be weary of using that particular way of framing that argument though.

That's what I'm trying to say. There is no evidence right now. Just, the next Smash will be an entirely new realm of possibility. You can't take that away from a positive sense. The whole "Sakurai is unpredictable" is already out of reach, that's what makes speculation fascinating. We really don't know anything aside from our abilities that we grew up with these franchises and merit.

Honestly, I'm not swallowing you're argument and taking it as that. I can believe if I want to.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

No one has ever successfully been able to convince me that an assist trophy has merit as a deconfirmation.
Sure, I may be biased, but that's hard to even consider after the posts I just read above mine.

Well, I'll throw in my two cents on this case:

So far Assist Trophies have appeared in 3/5 of the Smash games, and in not a single one has an AT also appeared as a fighter. Similarly, we went through an extra wave of newcomers in the form of Smash 4 DLC, which also did not include AT's as fighters. And it seems like the direction this wave of DLC is going in will focus more on giving us as unique and original content as possible--which means no redundancies.

That's a lot of characters lol

Which of my points are you referring to? When I said that a lot of fighters are deconfirmed as AT's, or that there could be more DLC? if so you'd be right, just curious.

Yes, if there's a second (or third, or fourth....) wave of DLC, that woulld be a lot of fighters. But I'm not going to discount the fact that sixteen unused fighter slots were discovered in World of Light, and Joker only takes up 2 (normal costume and school outfit. IIRC having separated renders counts as two slots, so Bowser Jr. counts as 8). And then there's thirty--count 'em, THIRTY--unused slots in the base roster. So it's really hard for me to discount the possibility of a second wave of DLC (that and the fact that such a missed opportunity could prove detrimental).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

That's what I'm trying to say. There is no evidence right now. Just, the next Smash will be an entirely new realm of possibility. You can't take that away from a positive sense. The whole "Sakurai is unpredictable" is already out of reach, that's what makes speculation fascinating. We really don't know anything aside from our abilities that we grew up with these franchises and merit.

Honestly, I'm not swallowing you're argument and taking it as that. I can believe if I want to.

So, what exactly are you trying to argue then?

If you’re just saying Sakurai could add anybody for another Smash game, then that’s kind of obvious and doesn’t really warrant a thread. He could do anything in the future and add whoever he wants/decides for another project.

But based upon your title and first post, you seem to be arguing that Sakurai made active decisions with regards to a future Smash game. And in that case, we’re not talking about future actions, we’re talking about intentional decision making that already happened either for the base game or the Fighter’s Pass (which was also already all decided). Then the whole Sakurai could do anything doesn’t really apply because he would have already made certain decisions. And I’m arguing that we know the context of all the new playable characters in Smash and Sakurai has been pretty Direct with his decision making for Ultimate. When you take that into account with how he has portrayed every other Smash development cycle, he clearly focuses all his effort on the main game in question and doesn’t focus on what characters do or do not get into the game until he’s making that game.

It’s fine to have a theory he “held back characters,” but there’s literally nowhere to take that idea right now with what we know about Ultimate and his decision making and no way of arguing against the mere possibility of something... if you wanna make that theory and make a point about it, you need something to support it.

 

[SmashChu]

My theory is, Sakurai has enough left in him for one more game after Ultimate, considering he doesn't want to let go the series. Now that I think about it, some examples I know from the top of my head, had they been added prior to Ultimate, would have been overkill.

What's to say if highly requested characters are ignored but have a strong legacy with Nintendo, Sakurai already have them listed for the next instalment, already have stated to not expect the roster to remain as large as Ultimate's.

These are candidate examples I know from the top of my head:

Dixie Kong - DK
Tingle - Legend of Zelda
Skull Kid - Legend of Zelda
Isaac? - Golden Sun

Third party additions:

Banjo-Kazooie
Geno

I can also see Sakurai announcing his retirement and leaving Smash to echo its beginning, something I personally want. My argument for adding Tingle, he's hated in the West? Smash is a Japanese IP. If Tingle becomes playable, we'll still buy the game. He'd actually be the perfect "Off" pick we didn't see coming. The West not purchasing Smash due to one character isn't of Sakurai's concern.

First, if we are to point to the big first party names, I wouldn't include any of those besides maybe Skull Kid (mostly because hes a Zelda character). If they were "saving" anyone it would have probably been Spring Man and Rex as they were the hot new thing. Dixie, while I like her, is always going to get glossed over as she doesn't really excite people. Donkey Kong is mostly DK and Diddy.

As far as are they holding them? Not really. Besides, the next game isn't going to have a problem with Nintendo characters. Nintendo has more new series than they've had for Smash games typically. We have ARMS, Dragalia Lost (which Nintendo has really pushed) and Astral Chains (which will probably do well). Besides stuff like Labo or any old series, Retro artist have been teasing a possible new game and Monolith is working on a new fantasy project. For the most part, we'll be fine as far as new Nintendo characters go. We may have more of an issue with guest characters as they keep adding everyone; Sakurai himself has even opined on this.

That said, we don't know how the next one will go. Iwata asked Sakurai to work on Smash before he passed so Ultimate could be considered to be Sakurai's swan song. Will Sakurai make another Smash if Iwata isn't there to initiate the communication. It may seem silly but remember that Iwata told Sakurai about the 3DS before its release as well. Nintendo will be helmed by totally different people. They may want to make it in house or with a dedicated team. I think it's hard to say what the next Smash will look like after Ultimate.

 

[Captain Shades]

As far as are they holding them? Not really. Besides, the next game isn't going to have a problem with Nintendo characters. Nintendo has more new series than they've had for Smash games typically. We have ARMS, Dragalia Lost (which Nintendo has really pushed) and Astral Chains (which will probably do well). Besides stuff like Labo or any old series, Retro artist have been teasing a possible new game and Monolith is working on a new fantasy project. For the most part, we'll be fine as far as new Nintendo characters go. We may have more of an issue with guest characters as they keep adding everyone; Sakurai himself has even opined on this.

Don’t forget Daemon X Machina

I even forgot that...

 

[Quillion]

I highly doubt Daemon and Astral are shoe-ins. They're untested new IPs that Nintendo only has publishing rights for.

 

[SmashChu]

Don’t forget Daemon X Machina

I even forgot that...

Daemon X Machina is only published by Nintendo outside of Japan. Marvelous is self publishing in Japan.

I highly doubt Daemon and Astral are shoe-ins. They're untested new IPs that Nintendo only has publishing rights for.

I don't know how much being "unproven" matters. Xenoblade Chronicles sold less than 1 million and only had a single title and it got a character. Bayonetta wasn't lighting the world on fire either. Astral Chains has enough interest and if Neir Automata sales are anything to go by the game can easily break 1 million. Unless its a total flop, it has a good shot for Smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, I'll throw in my two cents on this case:

So far Assist Trophies have appeared in 3/5 of the Smash games, and in not a single one has an AT also appeared as a fighter. Similarly, we went through an extra wave of newcomers in the form of Smash 4 DLC, which also did not include AT's as fighters. And it seems like the direction this wave of DLC is going in will focus more on giving us as unique and original content as possible--which means no redundancies.

I just don't think it makes sense to focus on what has been when discussing what could be.
By all accounts, it makes no sense for Toon Link to be a character if he is going to be a stage element. But instead, Alfonso steps in.
Chrom is the worst perpetrator of all- he's a mii costume, a final smash, and an echo of a character to which he has absolutely no relation. How does that make sense?

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me, it just doesnt make any sense to me.
Sure- an AT being a playable could... maybe... be considered redundant, in argument at least. To me, the prevailing argument is that a character being in the game at all was obviously important enough to have included at all.

 

[UserKev]

First, if we are to point to the big first party names, I wouldn't include any of those besides maybe Skull Kid (mostly because hes a Zelda character). If they were "saving" anyone it would have probably been Spring Man and Rex as they were the hot new thing. Dixie, while I like her, is always going to get glossed over as she doesn't really excite people. Donkey Kong is mostly DK and Diddy.

Dixie has a legacy following with also the inclusions of echoes that makes Dixie's presence feel extreme. If ARMS isn't met with sequels, it could potentially be the next retro inclusion. Rex, I can see it.

That said, we don't know how the next one will go. Iwata asked Sakurai to work on Smash before he passed so Ultimate could be considered to be Sakurai's swan song. Will Sakurai make another Smash if Iwata isn't there to initiate the communication. It may seem silly but remember that Iwata told Sakurai about the 3DS before its release as well. Nintendo will be helmed by totally different people. They may want to make it in house or with a dedicated team. I think it's hard to say what the next Smash will look like after Ultimate.

This sounds intriguing. But a next Smash can still happen while if Sakurai really desires, he has the rest of the series as sort of notes.