Is Rosalina the most broken character?

ChikoLad · Oct 21, 2014

meleebrawler said:
How was she born then?

How was the god in any religious text born?... :V

meleebrawler · Oct 21, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
How was the god in any religious text born?... :V

Well there was clearly a universe before Rosa was born.
She just added to it when she grew up with Lumas.

The real gods here would have to be the Lumas, since I imagine they've been growing
into stars, planets and galaxies before meeting Rosalina.

ChikoLad · Oct 21, 2014

The Lumas (and everything else) are really just the atoms though. There was probably just someone before Rosalina.

But I think we're getting off topic. Unless this topic title asks it's question in relation to Nintendo games at large.

Xzsmmc · Oct 22, 2014

Without a doubt. Everything has already been said to death, so I won't repeat it. But it's no coincidence that pretty much every matchup thread on this site is complaining about her.

CatRaccoonBL · Oct 22, 2014

Rosalina isn't broken. If she is, she will never be as broken as meta knight.

Meta knight had it all. He had an amazing recovery options, strong attacks that killed early and came out fast, and the tornado. The tornado. The tornado does tons of damage, it sucks people in, and was just all around a strong and broken move.

Rosalina...has average recovery, mediocre kill moves without Luma, and Luma himself is pretty easy to kill. Also, a lot of moves Rosalina uses have high amounts of end lag. So it is also very easy to punish both Luma and Rosalina.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

RaccoonBL said:
Rosalina isn't broken. If she is, she will never be as broken as meta knight.

Meta knight had it all. He had an amazing recovery options, strong attacks that killed early and came out fast, and the tornado. The tornado. The tornado does tons of damage, it sucks people in, and was just all around a strong and broken move.

Rosalina...has average recovery, mediocre kill moves without Luma, and Luma himself is pretty easy to kill. Also, a lot of moves Rosalina uses have high amounts of end lag. So it is also very easy to punish both Luma and Rosalina.

Rosalina's recovery is not average in the slightest, it's arguably better than Meta Knight's was in some respects (only thing Meta Knight had over her was that he had different moves for recovery, but one or two of them were the all-round best options for him. That, and some of the options were also attacks, but those ones were inferior for raw distance and speed). Goes quite a bit faster, and has an aiming mechanic. And Luma can attack for her while helpless. And even without that, there is no way a recovery that goes from magnifying glass to ledge without even double jumping can be considered "mediocre".

She doesn't have mediocre kill moves either. Up Smash, Up Tilt, Up Air, Side Smash, and Down Air can all kill pretty early without Luma.

Not a lot of her moves have high end lag. Down Smash doesn't, N-Air and F-Air don't, none of her Tilts do. D-Air, B-Air, and U-Air kinda do, but they are not really ones you would commonly use near the ground anyway, unless the opponent is in a really punishable state. On top of that, she is an auto cancelling god anyway, especially with N-Air and F-Air (the easiest ones for it, especially F-Air). She can auto cancel aerials and still have Luma throw out an attack, which is something only she can do, and it's an INCREDIBLY effective combo and set-up tool.

Like I've repeated many times before, I don't think she's broken yet. However, on the other hand, I feel a lot of Rosalina players are having a kneejerk reaction to all of the "Rosalina is broken" outcries, and are either exaggerating her weaknesses, downplaying her strengths, or making stuff up entirely, to make her sound less viable, when there's no need to be doing so. Likely not intentional, and it may be partly because some Rosalina mains still struggle to get a grasp on her beyond basic stuff, but I feel there is at least some subconscious mindset going on that people are afraid to admit she's one of the best characters in the game for fear of that being a reason to shun the character because she's "broken". And there really is no need for that.

CatRaccoonBL · Oct 22, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
Rosalina's recovery is not average in the slightest, it's arguably better than Meta Knight's was in some respects

Try gimping a Meta knight using tornado. Ok, now try gimping Rosalina while she is using Launch star. You will find it's more possible to do that latter.

It doesn't matter if Rosalina can attack while she is helpless, Lumas attacks at that point don't have too much range. Also, aiming at anywhere other then the ledge when using launch star is just asking for a smash attack. Meta knight could literally go anywhere. Rosalina essentially has to aim for the ledge. I'll test it more, but I really doubt it is as good as you are saying.

sonicbrawler182 said:
She doesn't have mediocre kill moves either. Up Smash, Up Tilt, Up Air, Side Smash, and Down Air can all kill pretty early without Luma.

Up smash can only kill characters who are right next to you, up tilt can only even attack people directly above you, and side smash is not safe at all due to it's high end lag. Down air is the only reasonable one, and even then you have to aim it just right.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

RaccoonBL said:
Try gimping a Meta knight using tornado. Ok, now try gimping Rosalina while she is using Launch star. You will find it's more possible to do that latter.

It doesn't matter if Rosalina can attack while she is helpless, Lumas attacks at that point don't have too much range. Also, aiming at anywhere other then the ledge when using launch star is just asking for a smash attack. Meta knight could literally go anywhere. Rosalina essentially has to aim for the ledge. I'll test it more, but I really doubt it is as good as you are saying.

Up smash can only kill characters who are right next to you, up tilt can only even attack people directly above you, and side smash is not safe at all due to it's high end lag. Down air is the only reasonable one, and even then you have to aim it just right.

You can still wait for Meta Knight's tornado to finish and then punish him. Rosalina is generally difficult to hit with Launch Star since it's so fast and she can aim it whatever way.
And no, you can trick your opponent to get over their head just fine. Especially if they are a slow character.

Up Smash covers all of her front, her top, and slightly behind, actually, without Luma. Up Tilt with Luma beside you has huge coverage, and Side Smash is no different to most Smash Attacks in end lag, it's not unusually high (and it has the advantage of great range, fast start up, and being angle-able). And Down Air is pretty easy to use, can have strong side ways knockback at the start, and a spike a bit later. It will be far easier with a GC controller too.

LiamMail · Oct 22, 2014

How to counter Rosalina as Bowser Jr. :
1. Clown Kart
2. Kart Spin
3. Repeat #1 and #2
4. Repeat #3 10 times
5. Up B explosion

Judo777 · Oct 22, 2014

Lol at anyone thinking any character in smash will ever have a better recovery than Brawl Metaknights. Mediocre MK players could go entire tournaments without ever even getting damaged while trying to recover.

mistermoo33 · Oct 22, 2014

Xzsmmc said:
Without a doubt. Everything has already been said to death, so I won't repeat it. But it's no coincidence that pretty much every matchup thread on this site is complaining about her.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

LiamMail said:
How to counter Rosalina as Bowser Jr. :
1. Clown Kart
2. Kart Spin
3. Repeat #1 and #2
4. Repeat #3 10 times
5. Up B explosion

It's already been said a bunch of times that Luma Shot goes right through Clown Kart even at minimum charge, and that ejected Clown Car from Up B can be negated with her Down B.

Unless you were being sarcastic or something.

Judo777 said:
Lol at anyone thinking any character in smash will ever have a better recovery than Brawl Metaknights. Mediocre MK players could go entire tournaments without ever even getting damaged while trying to recover.

I never said it was better outright, but Rosalina's is better for the speed at which it takes you such a far distance. Brawl Meta Knight is a bit easier to predict since his recovery options were slower, even if his recovery is safer and has more options.

And for the record, I've only been hit out of Rosalina's recovery once or twice (and it wasn't fatal since I could use it again).

dedekong · Oct 22, 2014

A rosalina I fought today lived till 222%

lol...

toadster101 · Oct 22, 2014

dedekong said:
A rosalina I fought today lived till 222%

lol...

A Charizard I was battling once survived to 250% therefore he's broken. /logic

Rybaia · Oct 22, 2014

dedekong said:
A rosalina I fought today lived till 222%

lol...

Let me guess who messed that up... Probably the balance team.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

toadster101 said:
A Charizard I was battling once survived to 250% therefore he's broken. /logic

Where did that user say she was broken in that comment?

It's more that people keep exaggerating Rosalina's lightweight as if it's the worst thing, when in reality, she survives just fine.

Rybaia · Oct 22, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
Where did that user say she was broken in that comment?

It's more that people keep exaggerating Rosalina's lightweight as if it's the worst thing, when in reality, she survives just fine.

Lets get real, if a non heavyweight character survives for that mutch (even an heavyweight in some regards tbh) you messed up big time.

Roxas215 · Oct 22, 2014

RaccoonBL said:
Rosalina isn't broken. If she is, she will never be as broken as meta knight.

Meta knight had it all. He had an amazing recovery options, strong attacks that killed early and came out fast, and the tornado. The tornado. The tornado does tons of damage, it sucks people in, and was just all around a strong and broken move.

Rosalina...has average recovery, mediocre kill moves without Luma, and Luma himself is pretty easy to kill. Also, a lot of moves Rosalina uses have high amounts of end lag. So it is also very easy to punish both Luma and Rosalina.

Did u just say her recovery is average???

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

Rybaia said:
Lets get real, if a non heavyweight character survives for that mutch (even an heavyweight in some regards tbh) you messed up big time.

Not necessarily. Rosalina just has great tools for surviving.

Reila · Oct 22, 2014

Rosaluma is a goddamn disgrace. Call me salty, but a character in Smash never annoyed me as much as them. If they are broken? They sure are.

meleebrawler · Oct 22, 2014

They can't be that broken, otherwise we would see a LOT more of them online for glory.
It takes a lot of practice to get them to the point where they are as intimidating
as everyone says.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Oct 22, 2014

meleebrawler said:
They can't be that broken, otherwise we would see a LOT more of them online for glory.
It takes a lot of practice to get them to the point where they are as intimidating
as everyone says.

The irony here is that Rosalina isn't even an intimidating sight.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

meleebrawler said:
They can't be that broken, otherwise we would see a LOT more of them online for glory.
It takes a lot of practice to get them to the point where they are as intimidating
as everyone says.

That's why you don't see them in FG. People in FG just want an easy win, so they choose Little Mac because he has a lot of beginner friendly tools.

Mario_and_Sonic_Guy said:
The irony here is that Rosalina isn't even an intimidating sight.

ParanoidDrone · Oct 22, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
That's why you don't see them in FG. People in FG just want an easy win, so they choose Little Mac because he has a lot of beginner friendly tools.

Sassalina is best Rosalina.

ChikoLad · Oct 22, 2014

It's not even sassy on Wii U

She legitimately looks ready to redo the universe again.

Or if you have the full picture, something else...

Untouch · Oct 22, 2014

By far yes.
Not as broken as brawl MK, because she has weaknesses though.

It's just the luma, it spawns back too quickly, and when it's there you cannot deal with rosalina.

Without it, she's still viable, but very slow so easy to punish.

If someone finds out how to easily deal with luma it'll be easy to fight her, but for now, she's broken.

HiNiTe · Oct 22, 2014

meleebrawler said:
They can't be that broken, otherwise we would see a LOT more of them online for glory.
It takes a lot of practice to get them to the point where they are as intimidating
as everyone says.

As said above she's not someone you can just pick up and dominate with. Many Rosalinas in For Glory are easily beatable (this goes for any character, honestly); the same applied to Meta Knight in Brawl, you actually can't spam Mach Tornado and win. You need knowledge of the character and Luma to really deal damage. Know that and she is incredibly powerful. She appears in the top of the brackets for many 3DS tournaments already and it'll only increase.

HeavyLobster · Oct 23, 2014

I predict 3 things with respect to Rosalina:
1. She will not have a universally favorable matchup spread(and hence not meet the threshold for being "broken")
2. She will be generally considered the best character by most people who know what they're talking about
3. She will not be the character with the most tournament representation
She's a much bigger target than any of the best characters in any Smash game, so she is going to get hit, and is going to go far. Her recovery and escape options mean she's not quite as vulnerable as she seems on paper, but no character in Smash history has been able to avoid taking hits forever. Meta Knight was able to mitigate his light weight because he had ridiculously good momentum cancels to let him survive when he did get hit, while Rosalina has nothing like that and is going to die more easily once players learn to capitalize on the opportunities they do get against her. She's still got enough tools to deal with pretty much anything reasonably well, and will have enough high-level stuff to keep adapting to the meta and remain a top character. A lot of top players probably won't take to her playstyle, though, so I'd expect to see them gravitate to more conventional characters and excel with them.

New_Dumal · Oct 23, 2014

Rosalina is the most broken character in SSB4, without a doubt.
I feels like is MK level again...I know is just too early, and the game is more balanced this time.

But I don't think she has a counter.
She is not a character who requires a lot from the player to be in a medium-level.
She stomps half or more of the cast, as a joke.
She should be high tier without Luma (what is that hitboxes and active intervals ?)
Rosalina is a step beyond : Yoshi, Sheik, Bowser , ZSS , or any other potential threat.

I know I'm crying and being a ***** ... I know even I'm possibly wrong but...
Rosalina hurts ... And I'm really hurt by her.
Things can change in the Wii U and with the evolution of the metagame.

Percentful · Oct 23, 2014

Powerful, yes. But I don't believe broken.

People also talk about how hard it is to kill Luma. If people knew the matchup a bit more, they would know that specific moves send Luma into a tumble, which kills him if he's hit offstage. A good amount of dash attacks can. And anyways, Luma does not give Rosalina the options that Nana gave the ice climbers. She can't do 0-death chaingrab shenanigans like Ice Climbers could; Luma plays a much different role.

I would say right now, people just aren't adjusted to playing her. Once everybody knows the tools to take out Luma, she won't be as intimidating as she seems to be right now. She'll still be very good. But I think of her Luma abilities like Kirbycide/Dedecide or Little Mac's KO punch or Lucario's insane Aura buff - it's balanced out by something, you just have to learn how to deal with it.

Rybaia · Oct 23, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
It's not even sassy on Wii U

She legitimately looks ready to redo the universe again.

Or if you have the full picture, something else...

What are we talkig about?
Dude if you don't make Rosalina go past the blast zone before 222% you reallyy have a problem with your punish game or kill set ups.
The only way she lives that long is that your messing up your kill game, that has nothing to do with Rosalina and all to do with you screwing up.

Today I survived at 230% with ZSS, the dude was in complete panic mode and he was punishing my stuff with jabs and non kill moves when I should've died atlest 50-60% before because I was going a bit too YOLO to improve my lead. Is he supposed to come to the ZSS boards and write about her being a fat ass and being broken, or is he supposed to step up his game?

I've read all the threads about her and the only thing that lacks in those threads is the collective will to discover what are her limits.
Is she really the pubblic enemy n°1? Then stop crying, go in the lab and figure stuff out. Step up the anti-Luma game. Step up the defensive and offensive game against her. That stuff didn't work? Go back on the drawing board.

If in one of two years she shows MK levels of dominance then we can talk but do this right now on the 3DS version is rather silly. This thread is probably 95% made by tears and 5% about actual lucid thoughts.

Most of the people here seem more concerned about banning a character than improve their gameplay (this are the same guys that make all their assumptions in For Glory also known as The Pinnacle of Competitive Smash).
Don't worry with this mentality it doesn't matter what character will be on top you'll still be the dude that pays the entry fee and can't pass his pools.

I wasted enough time posting here, I could've played the game more.

Dark.Pch · Oct 23, 2014

I wanna say something about this. For one thing, I second rosalina somewhat. I use her and I am not sure I am gonna use her in tourny cause her play style to me is kinda boring.I have yet to master her 100%. So I wanna do that and see how she really feels. Then decided if she is fun or still boring. I know alot about her from using her and fighting against her.
With that said, I feel people do not take the time to learn how to deal with all of her options. They just get caught with something alot, get annoyed and just complain. This needs to stop. Rosalina is no where near broken. People just refuse to adapt. Just because something is hard does not mean its broken. Just because a character is hard to use, does not make them a bad character. Peach is hard to use in this game with controlling, her netrual game, tchs, etc.

But when you get it all down, she is a freaking monster. I as a Peach main have to take into account that I have to go the extra mile in comparison to other characters. I can not be lazy for a second or I get hit for nearly free. I dont ever get a chance to relax. Even against noobs who throw out moves, roll alot and hope for the best. I do not get a chance to relax. But that does not make her bad. I take into account what I am getting into and when I put in that extra hard work, I rekt people with Peach, a character who people say suck cause of her moves, how she feels or how hard it is to control.

People need to not complain and hit the damm lab. learn your options. See what you are having trouble with, and experiment ways to deal with it. Change your play. Get a body and ask them to do things you have trouble. Wether a move, a type of gimmick, etc. Go learn man. I too had a problem with this character. Yet I did not sit here and cry about how she is broken, cheap, etc. I took he losses, thought about what was giving me trouble, and try many things to deal with it. Just pay attention to why I was losing and what can my character can do to limit the use of her options. Now my game is so much better vs her to a point I had a few complain about that match up too me.

This is what people need to do. This is what people seriously need to do. The game is still new, you and you see people running to Rosalina and doing stuff for the win. Take the damm time to actually look at it all and figure out stuff with your characters. Adapt. You complaining about her does NOTHING. It is not make people stop using her. It is not gonna make people not do what they do with Rosalina to get you to not complain. Hit the lab and do work. Then beat them and then have them complain about your character. Alot of people right now are not doing that. So these players using these characters are getting wins for free. or have a good shot of getting defeated but dont. if you are not use to how to deal with an option, and refuse to hit the lab, you have no right to be complaining. Cause you refuse to put in that work and take the time to learn.

Thats my rant and my stance on this. Cause it kinda gets me tight how so many complain about rosalina, lil mac, ribbits (Greninja) and refuse to learn and hit the lab. While I play an freaking hard cahracter to use, control and be safe with (now imagine trying to do this against good/easy mode characters). And I have yet to complain as of late. I did complain at first how she was hard to use and people just do stuff and hope for the best and I get hit. But then I decided to man up and just hit the lab for hours, learned control of peach and other hard things. And now all that tear and sweat in the lab is paying off. Now I'm rekting these people who can think they can auto pilot me and get away with it. Use a gimmick alot are losing to and think it will work on me cause these cry babies cant deal with it and lose to it.

Lose, realize, experiment, adopt, win! Done.

ParanoidDrone · Oct 23, 2014

Dark.Pch said:
*snip*

Well said. I'm willing to acknowledge that Rosalina is a powerful character and may end up being high-to-top tier, but I really don't like how people are calling her broken at such an early point in the game.

I mean, everyone and their mother surely realizes how Luma is the cornerstone of her power, right? She's good at defense on her own but Luma is the reason she's scary for some people to face. The obvious answer to the question "how do I beat Rosalina" is therefore "figure out how to deal with Luma." This is borne out by the fact that the people I struggle against the most online are the ones that, gasp, have figured out ways to get around Luma one way or another. It just seems like some people are unable/unwilling to learn what Luma can and can't do, or how it acts when not being directly commanded to attack, and label Rosalina broken as a result.

Actually, I suspect that the constant comparisons to the Ice Climbers are what's driving some of the hate. Nana literally doubled their power when present and of course was dead for the stock if you killed her. Luma is not Rosalina's equal, does not contribute the same level of power (although it does contribute a lot), and thus does not stay dead. I think there's a bit of a disconnect going on in that respect.

What I'm trying to say is I agree with you.

IReidYou · Oct 23, 2014

Wouldn't say she's busted but she's pretty dumb; she's on the lower end of top 5 imo. Not too often you see a character that can mash in hitstun and have it be beneficial lol. Regardless you just have to be extremely patient against her and space well. Those things come over time though so it's gonna be a struggle for some people. Hopefully the Wii U's training mode will have a record/playback feature to make testing easier.

otter · Oct 23, 2014

sonicbrawler182 said:
Rosalina's recovery is not average in the slightest, it's arguably better than Meta Knight's was in some respects (only thing Meta Knight had over her was that he had different moves for recovery, but one or two of them were the all-round best options for him. That, and some of the options were also attacks, but those ones were inferior for raw distance and speed). Goes quite a bit faster, and has an aiming mechanic. And Luma can attack for her while helpless. And even without that, there is no way a recovery that goes from magnifying glass to ledge without even double jumping can be considered "mediocre".

She doesn't have mediocre kill moves either. Up Smash, Up Tilt, Up Air, Side Smash, and Down Air can all kill pretty early without Luma.

all of those moves are pretty bad without luma. up tilt and up air are basically for juggles only. Forward Smash has the worst hitbox of all time. It looks small, but the actual hitbox doesnt even cover the whole galaxy thing.

I'd say the only moves worth using without luma are jab, down tilit, and off stage dair. hard read upsmash. approaching is just not an option.

ZombieBran · Oct 23, 2014

Reila said:
Rosaluma is a goddamn disgrace. Call me salty, but a character in Smash never annoyed me as much as them. If they are broken? They sure are.

Very salty. How are Rosalina & Luma broken?
She has weaknesses. Severe ones. Can the same be said about Sheik? Zero Suit Samus? Smash fans are just new to zoners and so cry foul as soon as a good one joins the cast.

Mario & Sonic Guy · Oct 23, 2014

Just so that people get the full picture, the following are Rosalina's typical weaknesses...

Rosalina is very lightweight for her size, so she's practically the easiest fighter to send flying early.
Rosalina is quite reliant on the Luma for making KOs, as without it, her KO options become limited.
The Luma is pretty easy to contain if it gets sent flying over an abyss.
Rosalina's movement speed is mostly near average, so she's not as speedy as Marth, Sheik, or Greninja.
Down aerial is too weak to do much, if anything to opponents who are below Rosalina. For a disjointed attack, the ring actually has to be close to Rosalina to be effective, which destroys its purpose of even being disjointed.
Rosalina is quite floaty while in the air; she's not a fast faller. This does make her vulnerable to vertical KOs.
While Launch Star may be good for long distance recoveries, it's far from safe, as it leaves Rosalina helpless and vulnerable to those who can keep up with her aerial momentum. Likewise, it deals no damage, so a well-timed attack can counter the recovery.

ChikoLad · Oct 23, 2014

Rybaia said:
What are we talkig about?
Dude if you don't make Rosalina go past the blast zone before 222% you reallyy have a problem with your punish game or kill set ups.
The only way she lives that long is that your messing up your kill game, that has nothing to do with Rosalina and all to do with you screwing up.

Today I survived at 230% with ZSS, the dude was in complete panic mode and he was punishing my stuff with jabs and non kill moves when I should've died atlest 50-60% before because I was going a bit too YOLO to improve my lead. Is he supposed to come to the ZSS boards and write about her being a fat *** and being broken, or is he supposed to step up his game?

I've read all the threads about her and the only thing that lacks in those threads is the collective will to discover what are her limits.
Is she really the pubblic enemy n°1? Then stop crying, go in the lab and figure stuff out. Step up the anti-Luma game. Step up the defensive and offensive game against her. That stuff didn't work? Go back on the drawing board.

If in one of two years she shows MK levels of dominance then we can talk but do this right now on the 3DS version is rather silly. This thread is probably 95% made by tears and 5% about actual lucid thoughts.

Most of the people here seem more concerned about banning a character than improve their gameplay (this are the same guys that make all their assumptions in For Glory also known as The Pinnacle of Competitive Smash).
Don't worry with this mentality it doesn't matter what character will be on top you'll still be the dude that pays the entry fee and can't pass his pools.

I wasted enough time posting here, I could've played the game more.

First off, I believe you quoted the wrong post.

People playing badly is not the only reason Rosalina can survive to such high percents. As has been stated tons of times in this thread, Rosalina has plenty of tools that pretty much negate her being light. She has a personal damage sponge, one of the best recoveries, momentum cancelling capabilities, aerials that are great at defending her even without Luma, one of the most fool proof dodges in the game, etc. Yes, to an extent, it's a case of people needing to step up their game. However, if that's all there was to it, it wouldn't be such a common occurrence for Rosalina players to survive so long. Not everyone on For Glory is a noob (to say so means you include yourself in that generalisation, and really, you don't want to do that to your ego, I'm sure). Rosalina just has tools that help her survive so long, and people who play as her exploit them. Her surviving so long so often, would make absolutely no sense if it was just her opponents playing poorly.

And stop saying "most people here are more concerned about banning the character". This is the Rosalina boards. The last thing any decent and honourable Rosalina player wants is for their character to be banned. The discussion here has been providing equal points on both sides. You obviously have not thoroughly read the thread.

you see people running to Rosalina and doing stuff for the win.

And I don't think anyone is running to Rosalina just because people say she's good, because she's not easy to use. People run to Little Mac though, since he is the noob destroyer, while also being noob friendly.

otter said:
all of those moves are pretty bad without luma. up tilt and up air are basically for juggles only. Forward Smash has the worst hitbox of all time. It looks small, but the actual hitbox doesnt even cover the whole galaxy thing.

I'd say the only moves worth using without luma are jab, down tilit, and off stage dair. hard read upsmash. approaching is just not an option.

Forward Smashes hit box is fine, since Rosalina reaches out. It is actually pretty long when you take into account how she stretches forward. It's deceptively big and that deception has landed me many a KO for SoRo.

And no, all of her moves should be used when Luma is not present (bar Neutral B and Side B). Approaching is still very much an option, and often times, my opponents thinking it isn't is their downfall. Rosalina is quick enough to get in people's faces (above average dash speed and horizontal aerial speed, amazing fox trot, and an amazing dodge roll), and has high priority moves with a lot of range. I approach people quite often when Rosalina is on her own, because if I put too much emphasis on keeping away, then I am playing into the opponent's hands. The opponent wants me to not approach. So I do.

----------

On another note, I agree that people who already think she is broken need to keep practicing.

However, on the other end of things, people need to stop downplaying Rosalina just to justify playing the character. There is no need for that.

Discussion on this character is honestly getting really boring, because it's literally become people pre-emptively calling her broken, or people downplaying her to the max. Neither is productive, and is not going to change anything for anyone.

Know your limits, but don't limit yourself.

otter · Oct 23, 2014

Average speed is very generous. Maybe while running (which is useless),her jump arc and startup times are far worse than average.

Sorry to keep being the devil's advocate but some of this stuff is borderline comical.

ChikoLad · Oct 23, 2014

otter said:
Average speed is very generous. Maybe while running (which is useless),her jump arc and startup times are far worse than average.

Sorry to keep being the devil's advocate but some of this stuff is borderline comical.

No, statistically, her running speed is above average (not useless btw, we are talking about "approaching", remember?). Mario is average running speed. Rosalina is noticeably faster than that. Ergo, above average.

Her left to right movement in the air is also well above average. Few characters are on par with or above it (with Jigglypuff having the highest speed in this regard). It's this strength that really helps her deal with a lot of fast characters like Sheik and Greninja really well. Sure, they are faster on the ground, and they fall faster (making the easy for Rosalina to juggle too!), but they hardly move an inch from left to right while in the air.

And I don't know where you are getting poor startup times from, because most of her attacks literally take no time at all to come out. Some of them have end lag, but when it comes to the actual attacks coming out, she reacts really quickly.

Is Rosalina the most broken character?

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