It's an 'All You Can Hurt Buffet!' Dark Pit/Pit Move Analysis Discussion (Discussing Arrows)

[Koiba]

Hey there and welcome to the Pit/Dark Pit Move Anaylisis thread~

This is where we talk about the angels moveset. We vote for a move to talk about and once we are comfortable we'll move on to a different move.

Some topics are:

• The usefulness of the move
• When to use the move
• How to use the move
• Why you use this move instead of others
• Potential combos/strings

And please grade the move while you're at it~ Use the legend below.

Spoiler: Legend

/

= 1/2

/= THIS MOVE IS AMAZING THANK YOU PALUTENA

/

= Important

/= Amazing

/

= Pretty Good

/= Average

/

= Lacking

/= Bad

/

= Gross

/= Borderline Useless

/

= Useless

= Why in Palutena's name would you use this move?

Angels Moveset
​

Spoiler: Standard Attacks

Jab​

Spoiler: Jab

This move can either be a 3 hit move >>

Base Damage Hit 1: 2%

Base Damage Hit 2: 2%

Base Damage Hit 3: 5%

~
Or a multi-jab >>(mash)

Base Damage Loop: 1%

Base Damage Finisher: 2%

Ftilt​

Spoiler: Ftilt

Pit/Dark Pit uses their bow blades like scissors and slices the opponent. Has a tipper and Pit's has more knockback in his ftilt than Dark Pit but Dark Pit can jab lock with his.

Base Damage Non-Tipper: 7%

Base Damage Tipper: 10%

Dtilt​

Spoiler: Dtilt

Pit /Dark Pit sweeps the opponent with their blade. Can trip.

Base Damage: 6%

First Active Frame: 32

Utilt​

Spoiler: Utilt

Pit/Dark Pit does 2 kicks in the air for a 3 hit combo. Doesn't hit behind.

Base Damage Hit 1: 2%

Base Damage Hit 2: 3%

Base Damage Hit 3: 5%

(Smash) Dash Attack​

Spoiler: Dash Attack

This move has Pit/Dark Pit do a dashing slash to the opponent. Sends them at a 60 degree angle and isn't safe on shield.

Base Damage: 11

Spoiler: Smashes

Fsmash​

Spoiler: Fsmash

This move is one of the angels best kill moves. A 2 hit slash with the last hit carrying all the kill power. Isn't safe on shield.

Base Damage Hit 1: 5%

Base Damage Hit 2: 10%

Dsmash​

Spoiler: Dsmash

This move makes Pit/Dark Pit do 2 slashes; first in front then behind him. This move is faster then dtilt but it's more unsafe. Both hits send foes at different trajectory's and the base of the move is stronger then the tip.

Base Damage Base: 12%

Base Damage Tip: 10%

Usmash​

Spoiler: Usmash

Pit/Dark Pit does a leaping triple slash to the sky. The last hit carrying all the kill power and this move won't hit on shorter characters beside you.

Base Damage Hit 1: 3%

Base Damage Hit 2: 2%

Base Damage Hit 3: 8%

Spoiler: Grabs/Throws

Grabs​

Spoiler: Grabs

Hitbox Active: 6-7

Hitbox Active: 8-9

Hitbox Active: 10-11

Pummel doing 2% with Pit/Dark Pit doing a quick knee jab.

Fthrow​

Spoiler: Fthrow

Pit/Dark Pit slashes the opponent away. Can set up for jab locks at low percents and kill at high percents.

Base Damage Hit 1: 6%

Base Damage Hit 2 (Throw): 4%

Bthrow​

Spoiler: Bthrow

Pit/Dark Pit spins around with the opponent training behind and slams the foe to the ground. Can set up jab locks at low percents but is unfortunately too weak to kill reliably.

Base Damage: 8%

Dthrow​

Spoiler: Dthrow

Pit/Dark Pit pins the enemy down and uses their bow blade like an axe to slice the opponent. The angels main combo throw. Can get many follow-ups such as usmash, nair and uair.

Base Damage Hit 1: 2%

Base Damage Hit 2 (Throw): 4%

Uthrow​

Spoiler: Uthrow

Pit/Dark Pit does and handstand and kicks the opponent into the air. Their strongest throw.

Base Damage Hit 1: 4%

Base Damage Hit 2 (Throw): 7%

Spoiler: Aerials

Nair​

Spoiler: Nair

Pit/Dark Pit spins their bow for a 8 hit combo. Can nullify weak projectiles.

Base Damage Hit 1-7: 0.7% per hit

Base Damage Hit 8: 4%

Fair​

Spoiler: Fair

Pit/Dark Pit spins their bow horizontally in front of them for a 3 hit move. One of the angels offstage tools. Has a knockback growth of 180.

Base Damage Hit 1-2: 1.5% per hit

Base Damage Hit 3: 4%

Bair​

Spoiler: Bair

Pit/Dark Pit does a backward thrust. A great ledge trump tool and the tipper is significantly stronger then the base.

Base Damage Tipper: 12%

Base Damage Base: 8%

Uair​

Spoiler: Uair

Pit/Dark Pit spins their bow above then like helicopter blades. a 5 hit move and has a knockback growth of 270.

Base Damage Hit 1-5: 2% each

Dair​

Spoiler: Dair

Pit/Dark Pit slices the opponent below him. Has a tipper in the middle of the attack with a spike attached to it.

Base Damage: 10%

Spoiler: Specials

Arrows​

Spoiler: Arrows

These arrows are different between the angels. Pit's curve more which means it's better at sniping the enemy offstage while Dark Pit's curve less but do more damage in return.

Base Damage No Charge: 1%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-63

~

Base Damage No Charge (Aerial): 1%

First Active Frame: 46

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 22-65

~

Base Damage Minimun Charge: 3.27%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-63

~

Base Damage Max Charge: 8.6%

First Active Frame: 121

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 79-122

~

Angle: 60

Base Knockback: 4

Knockback Growth: 80

Base Damage No Charge: 3.8%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-58

~

Base Damage No Charge (Aerial) : 3.8%

First Active Frame: 46

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 22-60

~

Base Damage Full Charge: 10.5%

First Active Frame: 121

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 79-117

~

Angle: 60

Base Knockback : 4

Knockback Growth : 88

Arms​

Spoiler: Arms

Pit has the Upperdash while Dark Pit has the Electroshock Arm. Pit's sends foes at a 80 degree angle while Dark Pit's sends foes at a 50 degree angle. This means that Pit's is more consistent at killing while Dark Pit's kills the foe earlier near the ledge and sends the foe offstage for some gimp potential. The 2 arms can also reflect projectiles at a roughly 45 degree angle.

Base Damage (Ground): 11%

Base Damage (Aerial): 9%




Base Damage (Ground): 11.5%

Base Damage (Aerial): 9.5%

Power of Flight
​

Spoiler: Power of Flight

This move is the same between the angels with only the wing color being the only difference. This move won't snap onto the ledge in the beginning of the move so recover smartly. This recovery can be angled but what comes up must come down.

Guardian Obitars​

Spoiler: Guardian Obitars

Pit/Dark Pit summons the Guardian Obitars on both sides to keep him from harm. This move is a reflector. It sends projectiles back 70% faster, can protect you from melee attacks and has a windbox.

Break Threshold: 50%

Wait Time: 10 Seconds

Multiplier: 1.5x

Current Discussion: Arrows

Arrows​

Spoiler: Arrows

These arrows are different between the angels. Pit's curve more which means it's better at sniping the enemy offstage while Dark Pit's curve less but do more damage in return.

Base Damage No Charge: 1%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-63

~

Base Damage No Charge (Aerial): 1%

First Active Frame: 46

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 22-65

~

Base Damage Minimun Charge: 3.27%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-63

~

Base Damage Max Charge: 8.6%

First Active Frame: 121

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 79-122

~

Angle: 60

Base Knockback: 4

Knockback Growth: 80

Base Damage No Charge: 3.8%

First Active Frame: 62

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 20-58

~

Base Damage No Charge (Aerial) : 3.8%

First Active Frame: 46

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 22-60

~

Base Damage Full Charge: 10.5%

First Active Frame: 121

Frames Hitboxes are Active: 79-117

~

Angle: 60

Base Knockback : 4

Knockback Growth : 88

Spoiler: Important Quotes~

We have to talk first~

Previous Discussions: Nada

Later Discussions: Dair, Grab/Throws, Ftilt/Utilt/Uair/Power of Flight/Guardian Obitars

Link to full frame data: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Pit

Start Discussing~​

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The first to vote...good

 

[Wintropy]

Arrows are an essential weapon in Pit's moveset. I think it'd be a good idea to get a discussion going on his classic neutral-b.

 

[Fujiwara]

Yes, the arrows need to be discussed. They can be handy but also a curse, depending against which character you play.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

I feel like that while the arrows aren't too hot (gimme back Brawl arrows plz), they're good for cancelling out other weak projectiles like missiles or the Hadoken (DP only, Pit can just curve over it), or for forcing characters without projectiles to approach.

 

[ReRaze]

Pit can actually force pretty much the entire cast to approach due to the fact that most projectiles can't curve so pit can full hop arrows keeping safe in the air while shooting at opponents.

 

[Fujiwara]

pit can full hop arrows keeping safe in the air while shooting at opponents.

This isn't as good as you think. Depending against who you play and how fast the other character is, it can easily backfire.

 

[ReRaze]

This isn't as good as you think. Depending against who you play and how fast the other character is, it can easily backfire.

Well obv I wouldn't use this alot against shiek or something lol but against someone like robin this is great. Even then full hop arrows are extremely difficult to punish if you use them right.

 

[Koiba]

And arrow talk starts now~

And once you guys are comfortable with arrows we'll move onto a different attack.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

And arrow talk starts now~

And once you guys are comfortable with arrows we'll move onto a different attack.

(Needs more pics of Pittoo getting hurt)
I mentioned this in the changes discussion, but I think Pit's arrows should move a bit slower and do 2% more damage.

Pittoo's could be a tad but harder to control, do 1% more damage, and move a bit faster.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

The arrows aren't exactly spam material unless you're fighting someone like Ganon and are trying to force an approach. That being said, I feel that Pit's are great for off-stage. They can gimp somebody with poor recovery or at least soften them up a bit for a follow-up if they manage to return to the stage. And if you're sent off-stage but not KO'd? I found that you can use the arrows as an anti-edgeguard tool to knock your opponent away from the edge (though it's not really great, it's more of a psychological thing, like "hey I'm not dead yet, and I can still hurt you")

 

[Corthos Fellrin]

Arrows? I personally voted for the UAir as I think that attack is more interesting, but meh you will get to it when you do.

On Topic: With arrows I just gimp characters or delay recovery to do something else. Sometimes I turn on the sniper skills and kill people with the mostly or full charge arrow when they are in the blast zone. The anti edgeguarding is something I also use the arrows for. Baiting people to air dodge after an up throw with arrows is pretty nice. Lastly I use them for killing other projectiles.

Edit: I don't think this is too useful, but Perfect Pivoting with arrow is something I use sometimes. Mostly because I want to look cool though.

 

[Tito Maas]

I ever only find myself using arrows when opponents are off stage, after a UThrow, or really far away. I hardly ever use them within a distance in which I can attack with something else. Is there a more efficient way to use this on the ground? Full hop arrows, sure, but they don't seem particularly safe when an opponent is even mid-distance away.

I will say, though, that my rival plays a really good Ness and so it's conditioned me to stay away from using arrows.

One thing that I find to be pretty useful is retreating short hop arrows. Always have a pretty good hit percentage with these even if I don't use them often. It's one of the few times I feel safe using them within midrange space

 

[BaeBraham]

Arrows seem pretty pivotal for Pit's set up and gimp game. They will either force an air dodge (which can lead to sweet ole' setups), or rack up a little damage.
The amount you use arrow's will probably always be match-up dependent, but they definitely have a place in any matchup.

 

[Dusk Pit]

In my opinion, arrows are not in such a big role when playing against skilled players. They are good at racking up damage but that's about it. I hardly see any good pit players use them for gimping or baiting air dodges (for example nairo). They are a good pressure option if playing super defencively though.

I like playing aggressively so arrows are not so integral part in my playstyle but i like the option to have projectiles when i need them.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

I feel that the arrows' usefulness is matchup dependent. Obviously if we're fighting someone like (speed demon and stupid transcendent needles) or (speed demon again and can throw it back in your face) they're not the best move, but when fighting someone like or it's great, because we can force them to approach on our terms without fearing retribution, or even just for cheap damage like off-stage on high damage.

 

[Corthos Fellrin]

In my opinion, arrows are not in such a big role when playing against skilled players. They are good at racking up damage but that's about it. I hardly see any good pit players use them for gimping or baiting air dodges (for example nairo). They are a good pressure option if playing super defencively though.

I like playing aggressively so arrows are not so integral part in my playstyle but i like the option to have projectiles when i need them.

While you don't see other people use the arrows for that purpose doesn't mean you shouldn't. I do agree with you that arrows don't play the largest role, but I'm going to use them if they are too far to punish or they are recovering in general. I don't always want to jump out there for a dunk or something unless it is a mix up. I play pretty aggro myself yet you have to mix it up sometimes. Like you I have a playstyle too and sometimes arrows are involved. Not sure if it is a good habit to have but I don't exactly play like others I just do better when I do my thing.

Did I mention that killing someone off of a full charge arrow snipe feels so good I swear airhorns playing the background with the MLG snipe.

 

[Koiba]

Well might as well give my 2 cents on this topic~

I'd give 's arrows are a rating of:

They do a decent amount of damage but that won't be any use when you can't hit you opponent. I guess it works best a mid-range but usually there's better options.

His arrows can always be used when the opponent is offstage and you can just shoot arrows from far away but Pittoo has great gimping ability so that kinda over-shadows it.

 

[Tito Maas]

I try to use Pit like Project M Pit as much as possible and deliver an arrow after knockback as often as I can. This may or may not be incredibly effective but so far I haven't yielded too many negative results, especially when I land one. Got an awesome spike off of an arrow offstage that knocked my opponent toward me.

 

[SilverWolfLaguz]

I got a KO on a Duck Hunt by hitting them with their can and an arrow. And more than once I've hit D3 with his own Gordo AND my arrow.

 

[Tito Maas]

I got a KO on a Duck Hunt by hitting them with their can and an arrow. And more than once I've hit D3 with his own Gordo AND my arrow.

Yeah. It's been said before that Pit doesn't have a reliable way to knock back the gordos but I always have plenty of success with arrows.

 

[Shinyespeon]

I use the arrows to force an approach on slower characters with no projectiles or slower projectiles, for edge guarding against characters with a bad recovery or catch them mid jump, or when I'm coming back to the stage I use it to hit the opponent near the edge.

So pretty much what most people have said before.

 

[verbatim]

I think people are underestimating how good arrows are at stealing jumps/gimping. If you can consistently hit people offstage, they make the matchups against rocket barrel Diddy Kong (poor Diddy), Roy, Little Mac, BJr, Ike, etc significantly easier.