Krystal Trophy

[BrimconSako]

Turning into a villain versus a female thing. No liking...

Alright. ExPirment. (Do yu c whut I did thar...)

Forget Krystal and Wolf. (Breathe slowly...)

Now, imagine a regular female character and a regular villain. Taking into account what roles these foils usually play in games and considering how the roster was meant to be made, who would you choose for the final slot (Imagine hero and sidekick are already in and cannot be changed)?

A female, or a villain? (And don't bark, just a small ExPirment.)

The female, most likely. EG: Mario, Luigi and Peach. Granted Bowser made it in as well but thats not the point.

In the same regard, to SSB64, Mario and Yoshi.

 

[firedragon_jing]

I found this over at NSIDER 2

[quote name='Gamer18' date='Feb 19 2008, 05:10 PM' post='1681528']

I guess someone over at the IGN boards translated one of

Spoiler

Falco’s

secret taunts at Corneria, and this is what it says (Dunno if it’s true, but it sure as hack sounds true)…

Fox: It’s planet Corneria! Falco is fighting really well.
Krystal: True, but there are a bunch of people I don’t recognize.
Fox: Well, this is a Brawl after all.
Peppy: I want to join in!
Slippy: Shut up old man, I’ll go!
Krystal: What are you talking about? Who else would join but me?

[/quote]
OMG, EASTER EGG, maybe this is a hint of DLC and her in it.

*Is off dreaming*

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Fake.

10char

 

[firedragon_jing]

Fake.

10char

prove it...

 

[SilentDrifterZ]

Well looking back at the Smash history with three particular characters

SSB: Mario, Luigi|Link|Fox
SSBM: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser|Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf|Fox, Falco, (where's the villian and female?)
SSBB: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser|Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf|Fox, Falco, Wolf, (No Female still)

I think the Star Fox crew got cut short and just to add along to firedragon's post.

As for the experiment, it can go either way really. I guess it depends on who's more interesting in the character development department. If I must, I'd choose the female I guess. there's just not enough females in Smash.

 

[Rarzy]

Long post is right.

Yeah, I'm a student in the CGT department at Purdue University up in Indiana, and working towards a degree in modeling, animation, and game development.

And about the stealing other people works, I wasn't really saying they're doing that, although they did have access to the original models from Nintendo, and used them as the base for their own characters. I was mainly using it as an example of saying you can't take something already done, change it, and call it something new, thus he would still be a clone in this sense.

I do agree though that having a base model is very helpful and saves a ton of time, because the process of making a character from scratch is very tedious. There is a point where you can change the base model enough where it isn't a clone, I figured they did this between Marth and Ike. I just don't consider Wolf was changed enough from Fox to make him his own character, with him having the same base moves. The character was just rigged differently to make for the separate animations, but the results are the same. The specs are changed in the data description, and aren't hard to change for damage calculation.

I agree he would have been similar to what he turned out to be if he wasn't built from Fox, but at the same time, I feel they could have thought of different moves all together if he was built on his own, especially with his FS. I just wished they focus on the characters first instead of limiting their time, bad time management on Sakurai's part...

well i see where you are coming from there. marth and ike definitely have more differences between the two than fox and wolf. and i also agree that it would have been cool for wolf to have some better specials etc and not a landmaster. but as i said imo i am still quite happy with how wolf turned out and can't wait to use him. now i'm not exactly sure how the game's programming works or anything, but some of wolf's moves seem to have different properties than fox's. such as his ftilt hitting twice and well as pausing time if it connects. his fsmash also hits twice. neither fox's ftilt or fsmash does these things. i feel that on top of new animations as well as new move properties such as that are what i'm getting at as far as at least differentiating him enough to a degree from fox.

on another note, since you are also going to college in a similar field as i, you might think it's cool to know that the school i go to, Ringling, was the first college (and currently only) to be liscensed and given Cry Engine 2 for use in our Game art major by Crytek. cool eh?

 

[pirkid]

Well looking back at the Smash history with three particular characters

SSB: Mario, Luigi|Link|Fox
SSBM: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser|Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf|Fox, Falco, (where's the villian and female?)
SSBB: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser|Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf|Fox, Falco, Wolf, (No Female still)

I think the Star Fox crew got cut short and just to add along to firedragon's post.

As for the experiment, it can go either way really. I guess it depends on who's more interesting in the character development department. If I must, I'd choose the female I guess. there's just not enough females in Smash.

Accelerates the fact that we were promised more females and got one. Less clones and got another. Yet everyone's happy with Wolf because he's badarse.

Anyone else?

 

[BrimconSako]

Accelerates the fact that we were promised more females and got one. Less clones and got another. Yet everyone's happy with Wolf because he's badarse.

Anyone else?

I think you have made your point.

 

[firedragon_jing]

well i see where you are coming from there. marth and ike definitely have more differences between the two than fox and wolf. and i also agree that it would have been cool for wolf to have some better specials etc and not a landmaster. but as i said imo i am still quite happy with how wolf turned out and can't wait to use him. now i'm not exactly sure how the game's programming works or anything, but some of wolf's moves seem to have different properties than fox's. such as his ftilt hitting twice and well as pausing time if it connects. his fsmash also hits twice. neither fox's ftilt or fsmash does these things. i feel that on top of new animations as well as new move properties such as that are what i'm getting at as far as at least differentiating him enough to a degree from fox.

on another note, since you are also going to college in a similar field as i, you might think it's cool to know that the school i go to, Ringling, was the first college (and currently only) to be liscensed and given Cry Engine 2 for use in our Game art major by Crytek. cool eh?

I haven't spoiled myself with watching too many videos of character gameplay, so I'll have to wait for the character to be in my hands playable before I fully decide if he was changed enough, but from what I've heard and seen, I don't think he has yet.

That's cool, we don't really have licensing to engines and such, I would love to work with Havok myself, Purdue is just adding gaming to the CGT school. We do have Maya, 3DS Max, and other software we can use though. So far, we only work on Java for cell phones and X-Box 360 development. Since Purdue is a public college and not a technical college, we don't always get the full attention we need for equipment. I'm hoping we can dev for the Wii, PSP, and PS3 in the next two years.

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

prove it...

I'll prove why it's fake if you prove why a random poster on IGN Forums, the cesspool of the gaming community, can be trusted.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I'm a proud furry. I know I will probably be flamed, or burned. But you know what? I still am what I am.

My friends consider me one of the "Normal" Furries. Flamers, Trolls, whatever you are.. We are not all about drooling over images.. There's more to "Furred Ones" Than you initially think.

I'm not going to waste my breath explaining it. Now.. Please. Just enjoy the trophy for what it is. Art. As the posters about modeling and CG design said.

Edit: One more thing, we are here to smash, not to drool. So lets get smashing shall we?

Nice.

Would have been nice to see some familiar combos from Adventures but guess not. At least she looks good in that trophy, no diff costume.

-Onyx

 

[firedragon_jing]

I'll prove why it's fake if you prove why a random poster on IGN Forums, the cesspool of the gaming community, can be trusted.

Proof this is real, tune in at 2:05 and listen.

I've taken five years of Japanese (in fact I'm procrastinating on a Japanese essay due tomorrow to post here), and I can tell you this is absolutely real. At 2:22 is where she says "What are you talking about? Who else would join but me?"

Get Samurai Panda if you don't believe me!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gNXQzmmafQA

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Even if it is real, it means nothing. Krystal is no more likely than Slippy or Peppy if you take this as fact.

 

[firedragon_jing]

Even if it is real, it means nothing. Krystal is no more likely than Slippy or Peppy if you take this as fact.

We'll see, come this Friday when Sakurai gives his speech on the characters at GDC.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

4chan DOES browse these boards you know, they're probably watching us right now. This VERY moment. Also, i am extremely anti furry, and with that i leave.

We are everywhere. We are Anonymous. We are in Brawl.

 

[SilentDrifterZ]

I think we all have a little bit of 4chan inside us...

scary world...

 

[Arteen]

Fox: It’s planet Corneria! Falco is fighting really well.
Krystal: True, but there are a bunch of people I don’t recognize.
Fox: Well, this is a Brawl after all.
Peppy: I want to join in!
Slippy: Shut up old man, I’ll go!
Krystal: What are you talking about? Who else would join but me?
???: Can't let you do that, Star Fox!

We already know the answer to her question.

 

[blayde_axel]

We'll see, come this Friday when Sakurai gives his speech on the characters at GDC.

What exactly IS the speech about? Is it about characters?

 

[red6170]

i mean she would be a awesome character... and they would've made a column of star fox characters(since it needs 4 characters to make a full column of characters)... and her staff would've been nice to add also

 

[firedragon_jing]

What exactly IS the speech about? Is it about characters?

Yep... it was called
Building Characters: The SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL Postmortem
I think they changed the name on the sight, but the description is the same...

Session Description
One of the strengths of Nintendo is its great number of character franchises. SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL builds on this legacy by providing a unique experience for Wii, leveraging many popular characters from the history of Nintendo and beyond. However, integrating so many different characters, each with its own personality, is no easy task, especially when characters from other publishers are willing to join the brawl. The man behind SMASH BROS., Masahiro Sakurai, discusses how he has approached this unique game series.

 

[smashbro29]

every game after 64 declined assault ok command WTF?! Krystal is fine i was happy with either her or wolf i wanted Krystal for uniqueness and wolf for importance so importance won big deal

 

[Ookami-kun]

I really want to refute the B moves comparison thing. Just because something is inspired/derived from something doesn't make it a clone. Heck, the only ones that can be considered "clone" as far as Wolf's special attacks are concerned is his Down B and FS, and even they have their own properties.

B
With the argument given for B, you might as well say that all projectile moves are clones because they are all projectiles. What makes them different is because of their properties. Wolf is VASTLY DIFFERENT from Fox or Falco. It pushes enemies back and it deals a heck more damage while being SLOW. It has a bayonet that deals double damage when up-close. Heck, the graphical look is different as well.

Up B
You might as well complain that all Up B's are clones because of the fact that it gives vertical recovery to most characters. Wolf's Up B is a lot different, as it carries enemies with him, deals multiple hits, little-to-no charge time, goes farther, and can kill edge-hogging with the last kick freeze. Fire Fox and Fire Bird, as far as I know, don't do that.

Side B
With the argument given, you might as well consider that all dash-based horizontal moves are the same. Wolf goes up in an angle, SPIKES/KNOCKBACKS on his sweetspot (his reappearance from the dash), and works like a recovery move.

Down B
This move is actually more of a DEFLECTOR than a Reflector. It deflects projectiles at a proper angle instead of sending forward, has wider range, and doesn't stop his momentum. This is the more "clone" of all the four, but still stands out.

Landmaster
Yes, this is a cloned move. The only thing that makes it different is that this deals more damage and knockback, has Falco's boost, and has little screen time.

As far as story importance is considered - Wolf has an equal importance as Krystal is. As far as Adventures go, Krystal only played as a damsel in distress, and DIDN'T EVEN USE THE STAFF. Assault made Wolf important, acting like the second James for Fox. In Command, one can argue that they can simply forget Krystal, as there are tons of story paths that actually IGNORE her.

Potential uniqueness? I have a feeling the supposed potential uniqueness is basically a similar move the Star Animals, only with a different animation/graphics.

In any case, let the Wolf hate slide. I dislike it.

Besides, Panther trophy is better.

 

[Jellybelly]

Krystal has/had priority simply because of her gender. I consider brawl to have 4 and a half female reps (Peach, Samus, Zelda, Jigglypuff and Nana) out of 35, thats less than ten percent.

I think I speak for the majority when i say that Krystal was wanted by alot of people simply for her diversity to the roster. Forget the small percentage of furries and forget even the smallish percentage of star fox fans (as the series has obviously lost popularity due to there declining game quality.) Krystal would have added more than Falco.

She most likely would have had a fox cloned moveset, she probably would have used a landmaster, this I'm certain of. But her gender should have placed her high in the pecking order and it didn't, so now in a roster of 35 there are 4.5 females.

I'm sceptical about DLC, and if it were to happen I think that the "forbidden 7" would be the selected characters. But krystal would be my number one choice.

 

[Arteen]

B
With the argument given for B, you might as well say that all projectile moves are clones because they are all projectiles. What makes them different is because of their properties. Wolf is VASTLY DIFFERENT from Fox or Falco. It pushes enemies back and it deals a heck more more damage while being SLOW. It has a bayonet that deals double damage when up-close. Heck, the graphical look is different as well.

How many characters have a strictly horizontal, gravity-independent projectile move as one of their specials? Fox? Falco? Luigi? Wolf?

Up B
You might as well complain that all Up B's are clones because of the fact that it gives vertical recovery to most characters. Wolf's Up B is a lot different, as it carries enemies with him, deals multiple hits, little-to-no charge time, goes farther, and can kill edge-hogging with the last kick freeze. Fire Fox and Fire Bird, as far as I know, don't do that.

How many characters have a more-or-less omnidirectional, strictly linear, line-of-sight, non-teleportational recovery move as one of their specials? Fox, Falco, Wolf?

Side B
With the argument given, you might as well consider that all dash-based horizontal moves are the same. Wolf goes up in an angle, SPIKES/KNOCKBACKS on his sweetspot (his reappearance from the dash), and works like a recovery move.

How many characters have a rapid dash-based move like that? Fox, Falco, Ike (I think), Lucario (I thnk), Wolf?

Down B
This move is actually more of a DEFLECTOR than a Reflector. It deflects projectiles at a proper angle instead of sending forward, has wider range, and doesn't stop his momentum. This is the more "clone" of all the four, but still stands out.

A reflection "reflects" at a proper angle. A deflection does not. Also, how many characters have a reflector-like move? Fox, Falco (sort-of), Zelda, Pit, Wolf?

How many characters have the Landmaster Final Smash? Fox, Falco, Wolf?

How many characters have all those types of moves as their moveset? Fox, Falco, Wolf?

Regardless of whether he's a clone, Wolf is derivative. Sure, his moves are slightly more differentiated than Falco's, but he's still very similar.

 

[Jellybelly]

Thanks artoon, I really didn't want to refute such a long post

Falco and Wolf are clones, It's clear as well...crystal.

 

[~Krystal~]

Clones and Luigified characters still have a place in Sakurai's heart and theres really no doubt hed have no trouble throwing the staff away and handing Krystal a laser and a reflector (Landmaster included). Still, I would have liked to see that extra female, even if it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the end.

 

[White_Lightning]

How many characters have a strictly horizontal, gravity-independent projectile move as one of their specials? Fox? Falco? Luigi? Wolf?

You forgot ZSS. Not to mention the blaster seems to be a popular weapon from the Star Fox universe. So there's really nothing wrong at all with Wolf using one. Seeing as how it's differences far out-weight it's similarities, I don't consider it at all cloned.

How many characters have a more-or-less omnidirectional, strictly linear, line-of-sight, non-teleportational recovery move as one of their specials? Fox, Falco, Wolf?

How many characters flap their wings as a recovery move? Meta Knight and Pit. How many characters can use some sort of chain as a recovery move? Olimar and Link. There's plenty of other characters with similar special moves.

A lot more characters share moves than you think. Wolf's recovery may work in a similar way to Fox and Falco, but at least it looks different.

A reflection "reflects" at a proper angle. A deflection does not. Also, how many characters have a reflector-like move? Fox, Falco (sort-of), Zelda, Pit, Wolf?

Aside from the FS and Side B, this is the only move I consider cloned from Fox.

Add all this to the fact that Wolf has completely unique "A" moves. Interestingly, not only are his "A" moves different, but he also has a completely different fighting style from Fox and Falco. The same really can't be said for any of the other characters who share moves. Wolf's differences far outweigh his similarities.

 

[Jellybelly]

Both people who have debunked falco and wolf as clones both have starwolf signatures

Bias no?

Sci fi centric antropomorphic animals who use guns, fox illusion, reflectors and landmasters. Does it really need saying again?

 

[SAMaine]

If Wolf is a clone of Fox, then Luigi is a clone of Mario.

 

[Yoshara]

Is it just me or do threads that somehow involve Krystal seem to go on forever?

 

[Jellybelly]

If Wolf is a clone of Fox, then Luigi is a clone of Mario.

He is, well he was.

But three games have molded Luigi into his own character. More specifically he gets his own FS, and now that Mario has lost his tornado b there even less similair.

Like i said before, If krystal was included she probably would have been a fox clone like wolf and falco. They simply haven't spent enough time out of there arwings/wolfens.

 

[Fatmanonice]

One game difference, Krystal has been more important recently, having two game focused around her, Adventure and Command.

Exactly. Except for the final mission in Star Fox Assault, Wolf really hasn't done anything major in the Star Fox franchise.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

It really is a shame she didn't make it in, she had such potential... she would have been an additional female to the cast plus she would have had a unique moveset with the staff.

Clones and Luigified characters still have a place in Sakurai's heart and theres really no doubt hed have no trouble throwing the staff away and handing Krystal a laser and a reflector (Landmaster included). Still, I would have liked to see that extra female, even if it wouldn't have made much of a difference in the end.

I somehow can see that happening though... thats why I'm pretty happy Sakurai may not be heading the next Smash title if there is one.

On a side note:
OMG Ike!!! f***ing otakus! What I mean by this is, leave people alone. Just because someone is into a harmless subculture doesn't mean you have to bash it or them just because you don't like it. Of course I believe in live and let live but I can't expect people, especialy over the internet, to have a sliver of respect for others.

 

[Drclaw411]

shes hot lol

 

[GaryCXJk]

Krystal has/had priority simply because of her gender. I consider brawl to have 4 and a half female reps (Peach, Samus, Zelda, Jigglypuff and Nana) out of 35, thats less than ten percent.

I think I speak for the majority when i say that Krystal was wanted by alot of people simply for her diversity to the roster. Forget the small percentage of furries and forget even the smallish percentage of star fox fans (as the series has obviously lost popularity due to there declining game quality.) Krystal would have added more than Falco.

She most likely would have had a fox cloned moveset, she probably would have used a landmaster, this I'm certain of. But her gender should have placed her high in the pecking order and it didn't, so now in a roster of 35 there are 4.5 females.

I'm sceptical about DLC, and if it were to happen I think that the "forbidden 7" would be the selected characters. But krystal would be my number one choice.

Indeed, right now everyone wanting to have some more female representation gets disappointed. I mean, not even Dixie Kong! How awesome I find that Lucario is in, I'd gladly traded him out for a female character.

 

[SAMaine]

I'm actually somewhat glad Krystal didn't make it this round... That way, when SSB4 comes out, Krystal will have original moves and be a default character, AND we get to keep Wolf & Falco as well.

 

[Ookami-kun]

Exactly. Except for the final mission in Star Fox Assault, Wolf really hasn't done anything major in the Star Fox franchise.

Actually, Wolf helped a lot since mission 7, and Command pathway is pretty subjective on your taste on which characters you prefer the most.

And I didn't say Wolf isn't derivative. I said just because his moves are based from something doesn't mean he is a clone. Again, I shall refer to Ryu and Ken.

But seriously, using B moves and FS as basis of clones is outright sad (even though Wolf only has what, two cloned moves).

And I like how poisoning the well works here. Nice.

 

[Jellybelly]

I'm actually somewhat glad Krystal didn't make it this round... That way, when SSB4 comes out, Krystal will have original moves and be a default character, AND we get to keep Wolf & Falco as well.

This i agree with...partly

Miyamato has stated that the starfox franchise has been led astray by 3rd party developers. A starfox wii game is a certainty and if it's first party then it will probably be a return to form.

Krystal is still the only viable female addition at this time. A new Starfox game will flesh out her character (we know nothing of her home planet) and basically make the franchise more important in the gaming community.

Though i wanted Krystal in brawl, i know that she'll feature in brawl 4, simply because she's the only worthy female.

 

[mogwaimon]

Exactly. Except for the final mission in Star Fox Assault, Wolf really hasn't done anything major in the Star Fox franchise.

I'd stop you there and cite Star Fox 64 (Which is the best Star Fox game to date, still, IMO) as credentials for Wolf's accomplishments...then I realized that Star Wolf really only appeared in two stages and all you did was dogfight...which was badass, but didn't really establish a sense of rivalry/villainy going on. I never beat Star Fox Assault, got bored around level 4-5, so I dunno what Wolf has done there.

 

[Ookami-kun]

I'd stop you there and cite Star Fox 64 (Which is the best Star Fox game to date, still, IMO) as credentials for Wolf's accomplishments...then I realized that Star Wolf really only appeared in two stages and all you did was dogfight...which was badass, but didn't really establish a sense of rivalry/villainy going on. I never beat Star Fox Assault, got bored around level 4-5, so I dunno what Wolf has done there.

Well,

Spoiler

he saved Star Fox team three times (7, 8, 9) in-game, and story wise, he saved Fox with his advice. Basically he became the James of the game.